why don't the low carb folks believe in CICO?
ndj1979
Posts: 29,136 Member
I am going to throw this one out there, because I got into a debate with someone in another thread and it left me pretty mind blown. The persons basic assumptions where the following:
1. they were not calorie restricting (however they were losing weight)
2. if they ate 1200 calories of a regular diet of say 30% carbs they did not lose, but when they ate a 1200 calories "low carb" diet they lost weight.
3. throughout the course of the thread others came in and made the argument that CICO did not apply when was going low carb.
Before all my low carb friends come flying in here to say that I am knocking low carb, let me be clear that is not what I am doing. The way that I see it is that low carb, IIFYM, keto, IF, etc are just tools to get one into a calorie deficit, and one is not superior to the other. I just get mind blown when people say "I calorie restricted and lost nothing, but when I went low carb I lost" or "fat loss only happens when one is low carb" or "CICO does not apply to me and only low carb works for me" and on and on….
I actually tried low carb and it was not for me. My energy in the gym was non-existent and i would end up binging on whatever carbs I had in the house.
It would be nice if some low carbers came in here and acutely refuted this…
OR
if you really believe that CICO does not apply, then I would be curious as to why you think this…
ETA - I am not referring to people that have to low carb due to a medical condition. However, CICO would still apply in that instance….
1. they were not calorie restricting (however they were losing weight)
2. if they ate 1200 calories of a regular diet of say 30% carbs they did not lose, but when they ate a 1200 calories "low carb" diet they lost weight.
3. throughout the course of the thread others came in and made the argument that CICO did not apply when was going low carb.
Before all my low carb friends come flying in here to say that I am knocking low carb, let me be clear that is not what I am doing. The way that I see it is that low carb, IIFYM, keto, IF, etc are just tools to get one into a calorie deficit, and one is not superior to the other. I just get mind blown when people say "I calorie restricted and lost nothing, but when I went low carb I lost" or "fat loss only happens when one is low carb" or "CICO does not apply to me and only low carb works for me" and on and on….
I actually tried low carb and it was not for me. My energy in the gym was non-existent and i would end up binging on whatever carbs I had in the house.
It would be nice if some low carbers came in here and acutely refuted this…
OR
if you really believe that CICO does not apply, then I would be curious as to why you think this…
ETA - I am not referring to people that have to low carb due to a medical condition. However, CICO would still apply in that instance….
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Replies
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ceoverturf wrote: »
Haha this should be fun0 -
Let's see how long this lasts0
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I am a firm believer in tearing down some serious carbs. My muscles love them.0
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MB_Positif wrote: »I am a firm believer in tearing down some serious carbs. My muscles love them.
i will second that….0 -
FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »Let's see how long this lasts
come on ..it is a serious question …!0 -
im a carb lover. i went well over 200g today, and most days.0
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In B4.........well just in0
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*taps fingers impatiently*
I'm already running out of popcorn here!0 -
ceoverturf wrote: »*taps fingers impatiently*
I'm already running out of popcorn here!
oh you guys….0 -
Low carb still requires calorie counting. /thread0
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I'm genuinely interested in the replies to this, as I have the same questions.
The replies are usually riddles that dance around the subject, but never actually state a simple yes or no answer.
I hope the smart *kitten* don't come in and derail this thread
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Some of my best work outs are cookie-fueled...but yeah, in because your question intrigues me also
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ogmomma2012 wrote: »Low carb still requires calorie counting. /thread
do you low carb? Just curious….0 -
christinev297 wrote: »I'm genuinely interested in the replies to this, as I have the same questions.
The replies are usually riddles that dance around the subject, but never actually state a simple yes or no answer.
I hope the smart *kitten* don't come in and derail this thread
Too late0 -
I love carbs. But when I was younger and more willing to spend stupid amounts of money on unneccesary weight loss things, I signed up to a place called 'Healthy Inspirations', basically a Curves type gym that also gave you a Weight Watchers type meal plan. Their week one was a "healthy kickstart" where for 7 days straight where you can eat unlimited amounts of:
Meat - any type including bacon, seafood, eggs etc.
Veges - anything but the starchy ones
Dairy - Cheese, cream, butter but not milk
Nuts and olives
Knowing nothing of calories, I was easily packing away a couple hundred grams of cheese and the same in nuts a day for 7 days along with a crapload of bacon, steak, eggs etc all cooked in butter, and lost 5kg.
I know nothing of the science, and I wasn't tracking any calories but I've often thought about that, since I know so much more now and wonder how the hell I didn't GAIN 5kg that week.0 -
Heres an example. Way back when, I was a member of an egg fast-stall breaker diet page. For 1-2 weeks these people ate nothing but eggs and fat (butter, mayo, coconut oil). The rule was 1 TBS fat per egg. The general amount of eggs consumed were 10-12 per day with the added fat alongside.
The calories were huge and yet the majority lost weigh like crazy!0 -
ogmomma2012 wrote: »Low carb still requires calorie counting. /thread
do you low carb? Just curious….
I did for about a month. It's not hard to fill up on leafy greens, meat and a little cheese even when your NET carbs are below 50g. I did keto, it was sustainable in my household but I stuck to it long enough to understand WHY people on low carb say they don't count calories. It's because fat and protien is more satifying, so most low-carbers tend to eat less anyway. I have to run to lunch now, be back in 30.0 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »I love carbs. But when I was younger and more willing to spend stupid amounts of money on unneccesary weight loss things, I signed up to a place called 'Healthy Inspirations', basically a Curves type gym that also gave you a Weight Watchers type meal plan. Their week one was a "healthy kickstart" where for 7 days straight where you can eat unlimited amounts of:
Meat - any type including bacon, seafood, eggs etc.
Veges - anything but the starchy ones
Dairy - Cheese, cream, butter but not milk
Nuts and olives
Knowing nothing of calories, I was easily packing away a couple hundred grams of cheese and the same in nuts a day for 7 days along with a crapload of bacon, steak, eggs etc all cooked in butter, and lost 5kg.
I know nothing of the science, and I wasn't tracking any calories but I've often thought about that, since I know so much more now and wonder how the hell I didn't GAIN 5kg that week.
interesting…
do you think it was because you were probably eating 70% fats that you were more satiated between meals and did not resort to snacking?0 -
I'm sorry to be off topic but I just gagged a littlechristinev297 wrote: »Heres an example. Way back when, I was a member of an egg fast-stall breaker diet page. For 1-2 weeks these people ate nothing but eggs and fat (butter, mayo, coconut oil). The rule was 1 TBS fat per egg. The general amount of eggs consumed were 10-12 per day with the added fat alongside.
The calories were huge and yet the majority lost weigh like crazy! I can't stand eggs, and I can't stand the thought of eating just eggs and fat. Eggs are the one food I won't touch...
...Unless they're baked in a cake
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Alatariel75 wrote: »I love carbs. But when I was younger and more willing to spend stupid amounts of money on unneccesary weight loss things, I signed up to a place called 'Healthy Inspirations', basically a Curves type gym that also gave you a Weight Watchers type meal plan. Their week one was a "healthy kickstart" where for 7 days straight where you can eat unlimited amounts of:
Meat - any type including bacon, seafood, eggs etc.
Veges - anything but the starchy ones
Dairy - Cheese, cream, butter but not milk
Nuts and olives
Knowing nothing of calories, I was easily packing away a couple hundred grams of cheese and the same in nuts a day for 7 days along with a crapload of bacon, steak, eggs etc all cooked in butter, and lost 5kg.
I know nothing of the science, and I wasn't tracking any calories but I've often thought about that, since I know so much more now and wonder how the hell I didn't GAIN 5kg that week.
I think things like this are water weight more than fat loss.
I'm interested in this topic, too.0 -
ogmomma2012 wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »Low carb still requires calorie counting. /thread
do you low carb? Just curious….
I did for about a month. It's not hard to fill up on leafy greens, meat and a little cheese even when your NET carbs are below 50g. I did keto, it was sustainable in my household but I stuck to it long enough to understand WHY people on low carb say they don't count calories. It's because fat and protien is more satifying, so most low-carbers tend to eat less anyway. I have to run to lunch now, be back in 30.
I get the "not countering calories part" ..i have my intake down to the point where I could ditch logging and I probably would not gain or lose…. I just like the data/feedback that logging gives me..
I just get mind blown when people say that low carb is not a restrictive diet or is not CICO...0 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »I love carbs. But when I was younger and more willing to spend stupid amounts of money on unneccesary weight loss things, I signed up to a place called 'Healthy Inspirations', basically a Curves type gym that also gave you a Weight Watchers type meal plan. Their week one was a "healthy kickstart" where for 7 days straight where you can eat unlimited amounts of:
Meat - any type including bacon, seafood, eggs etc.
Veges - anything but the starchy ones
Dairy - Cheese, cream, butter but not milk
Nuts and olives
Knowing nothing of calories, I was easily packing away a couple hundred grams of cheese and the same in nuts a day for 7 days along with a crapload of bacon, steak, eggs etc all cooked in butter, and lost 5kg.
I know nothing of the science, and I wasn't tracking any calories but I've often thought about that, since I know so much more now and wonder how the hell I didn't GAIN 5kg that week.
interesting…
do you think it was because you were probably eating 70% fats that you were more satiated between meals and did not resort to snacking?
That's the thing, I literally grazed on nuts all day. I'd buy the 500g pack of unsalted mixed nuts and each bag wouldn't last me more than 2-3 days. I also ate a lot of olives. Plus all 3 meals.0 -
ceoverturf wrote: »*taps fingers impatiently*
I'm already running out of popcorn here!
oh you guys….
Sorry, I eat what I want, carbs and all. But I'm glad to see you ndj1979 because I wanted to thank you! You posted something a few months back that debunked the whole breakfast eating bull. I've been doing leangains 18/6 for 2 months now (since you educated me) and I've never been happier while restricting calories. Seriously happy. My family thinks so too. I know it's different for everyone but I had never, ever heard anyone say it. CICO, just all in one sitting is perfect for me! {{Hugs}} internet person I don't really know.
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Alatariel75 wrote: »I love carbs. But when I was younger and more willing to spend stupid amounts of money on unneccesary weight loss things, I signed up to a place called 'Healthy Inspirations', basically a Curves type gym that also gave you a Weight Watchers type meal plan. Their week one was a "healthy kickstart" where for 7 days straight where you can eat unlimited amounts of:
Meat - any type including bacon, seafood, eggs etc.
Veges - anything but the starchy ones
Dairy - Cheese, cream, butter but not milk
Nuts and olives
Knowing nothing of calories, I was easily packing away a couple hundred grams of cheese and the same in nuts a day for 7 days along with a crapload of bacon, steak, eggs etc all cooked in butter, and lost 5kg.
I know nothing of the science, and I wasn't tracking any calories but I've often thought about that, since I know so much more now and wonder how the hell I didn't GAIN 5kg that week.
Virtually no carbs so losing water weight, plus fat and protein tend to be filling so you easily could have eaten fewer calories that you'd think would be in what you ate. Let's say 4-5 servings of 30g slices of cheese (were you really eating that much cheese every day?) for ~600 calories, let's say another 600 calories in nuts, then maybe 600 in dairy, veggies ,and meat together. That's only 1800 calories, which would allow plenty of people to lose weight. I'm in the 150s now and I can lose on 1800 calories despite only working out ~4, max 5hrs a week (mostly weight lifting).0 -
TheVirgoddess wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »I love carbs. But when I was younger and more willing to spend stupid amounts of money on unneccesary weight loss things, I signed up to a place called 'Healthy Inspirations', basically a Curves type gym that also gave you a Weight Watchers type meal plan. Their week one was a "healthy kickstart" where for 7 days straight where you can eat unlimited amounts of:
Meat - any type including bacon, seafood, eggs etc.
Veges - anything but the starchy ones
Dairy - Cheese, cream, butter but not milk
Nuts and olives
Knowing nothing of calories, I was easily packing away a couple hundred grams of cheese and the same in nuts a day for 7 days along with a crapload of bacon, steak, eggs etc all cooked in butter, and lost 5kg.
I know nothing of the science, and I wasn't tracking any calories but I've often thought about that, since I know so much more now and wonder how the hell I didn't GAIN 5kg that week.
I think things like this are water weight more than fat loss.
I'm interested in this topic, too.
No doubt there was water weight there, although I was eating SO high sodium (feta cheese was my friend, and bacon, and olives and.... man, I loved those 7 days) but I've never dropped anywhere near that in water weight again.
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christinev297 wrote: »Heres an example. Way back when, I was a member of an egg fast-stall breaker diet page. For 1-2 weeks these people ate nothing but eggs and fat (butter, mayo, coconut oil). The rule was 1 TBS fat per egg. The general amount of eggs consumed were 10-12 per day with the added fat alongside.
The calories were huge and yet the majority lost weigh like crazy!
at 70 calories an egg that would be 840 calories for 12 eggs …so if you just 12 eggs and some fats not sure you would hit 1500 ????0 -
ceoverturf wrote: »*taps fingers impatiently*
I'm already running out of popcorn here!
oh you guys….
Sorry, I eat what I want, carbs and all. But I'm glad to see you ndj1979 because I wanted to thank you! You posted something a few months back that debunked the whole breakfast eating bull. I've been doing leangains 18/6 for 2 months now (since you educated me) and I've never been happier while restricting calories. Seriously happy. My family thinks so too. I know it's different for everyone but I had never, ever heard anyone say it. CICO, just all in one sitting is perfect for me! {{Hugs}} internet person I don't really know.
well you are welcome….
another satisfied customer..
crazy part is I don't even do IF anymore..!! I actually liked IF but it was hard for me to fit into my training/work schedule...0 -
christinev297 wrote: »Heres an example. Way back when, I was a member of an egg fast-stall breaker diet page. For 1-2 weeks these people ate nothing but eggs and fat (butter, mayo, coconut oil). The rule was 1 TBS fat per egg. The general amount of eggs consumed were 10-12 per day with the added fat alongside.
The calories were huge and yet the majority lost weigh like crazy!
12 (large) eggs is approximately only 840 calories
1 tbs of oil per egg?? I find it hard to believe that anyone could even consume that much straight fat, but if so, that's about another 1200 calories if they managed to choke that down.
Total of 2040 calories. Which, depending on how big they were to start and how active they were, could easily be a calorie deficit.
Also - they did it for 1-2 weeks and (assuming they stuck to the diet exactly) had 0 total carbs? Almost all water weight and/or glycogen dump.
I'd be curious what happened when they resumed normal eating habits after the week or two.0
This discussion has been closed.
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