A short rant about many of the posts I have been seeing here. May come off as harsh but must be said
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the butthurt in this thread is amazing....
In addition, I'm seeing so much projection that I want to watch Cinema Paradisio again.
OP: Excuses won't get you anywhere
Everyone else: OMG MY EXCUSES ARE REAL, YOU FETUS!
SMDH. Nobody said that individual people don't have certain factors in life that present challenges in reaching their goals. Thing is, that doesn't make life "impossible." So, you know....~shrug~
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joejward95 wrote: »Nope, ive been on MFP since September, but Ive noticed a spike in these posts.
If you step away from the forums, the idiots dry up and blow away.
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"joejward95 wrote: »What does having a third job have to do with weight loss?
Just hope you never have to find out for yourself junior. Oh wait. You're in "uni". That should cover you.
The more jobs you've got, the more cals you should be burning just by being on the go.
Should make things easier.
Just got to eat less now. Already got the move more bit sorted.
I'll only charge half my usual fee in this case.0 -
CICO sounds great, and it's true it works if you can robot yourself into doing it. If I ate "survival" calories it's true, I'd lose weight! Yay! The thing is, I'm not a robot. I can't sleep when I'm absolutely famished, which is what happens when I am at too much of a calorie deficit (for me, anything under about 1400 a day). People with stressful jobs that require loads of attention to detail might not be smart to operate at a deficit that makes them feel sluggish and tired all day. Hunger pangs are awful to deal with even just lazing about, but add in what a lot of people have to deal with on a daily basis, not being able to control yourself when you just want some more GD food isn't a terrible lack of willpower that demonstrates that you deserve to be fat forever, you lazy slimeball, it's your body saying "I need more energy to run correctly, please feed me." You can scream at your body to use the giant amounts of fat stores you've built up rather than eating, but if you've got stuff to do that day and can't afford to sit around feeling hungry and dizzy, you bet your *kitten* you're going to just eat, possibly over your calorie goal. You can rationalize to yourself all day about how you're eating the perfect amount of calories to run your body machine, and yet you still feel hungry. That might change if your stomach shrinks or you keep up with it for a long time, but people coming here for motivation don't need to be told "CICO" over and over. WE KNOW. What we're looking for is motivation to stick with it, or maybe just a reminder that one day isn't the end of the world if we mess up, maybe someone to share this experience and to let us know we're not alone out there. What we don't need is someone telling us what we already think about ourselves and making us depressed enough to say "*kitten* it, I'm eating an entire ice cream cake. This dude is right, my personal struggles have nothing to do with my weight loss, I'm just a cow, might as well go moo in the fields."0
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"joejward95 wrote: »What does having a third job have to do with weight loss?
Just hope you never have to find out for yourself junior. Oh wait. You're in "uni". That should cover you.
The more jobs you've got, the more cals you should be burning just by being on the go.
Should make things easier.
Just got to eat less now. Already got the move more bit sorted.
I'll only charge half my usual fee in this case.
You're awesome!0 -
herrspoons wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »joejward95 wrote: »No, I am saying that hardships in life have nothing to do with weightloss. My hardships are none of your business, yours are none of mine. Because it is irrelevant to weight.
Is it now?
Hmm, are you saying that it is irrelevant to consider how someone's financial, educational or mental state might influence their behaviour and choices? And that addressing the presnece of clinical depression, for example, might just, maybe, be relevant to long term adherence in a weight loss program?
Oh, wait!
I have a friend, she's been paralyzed from the waist down from an infection a few years ago. The resulting trauma impacted her ability to exercise and along with mental issues, other concomitant metabolic issues, overeating, etc. she's gained a lot of weight. Her hardships are irrelevant to the weight gain?
Okay!
I'll send her a postcard to harden the eff up!
If your friend consumed less calories than she required would she lose weight? Yes or no.
Individual circumstances change, fundamentals do not.
Obviously, if she eat less than her daily needs she would lose. A tautology is a tautology.
Ah, but individual circumstances (hardship) matter - "eat less" for her now means going from something like <2400 cals to <900 cals to lose.
However, it is also much easier for me to have a 500 calorie deficit than it is for her.
And I will need to adhere to an eating regimen without secondary metabolic modifications (pituitary, etc) for a lot less time to reach the same loss goal.
Quite so. But the goal is still achievable even with the different circumstances.
Achievable or not isn't the point. Her hardship does makes it more difficult and does influence of how well she'll be able to stick to it. Hardships do matter in that they influence motivation and prioritization. Influencing eating habits is often a lot more than just listing out CICO.
I don't have issue with the core message of "don't make excuses". It's valid, I'm one of the mean kids. However, I also don't consider it to be the core of the issue on MFP... Meh, I might be wrong...0 -
holzeeg123 wrote: »There are so many factors which contribute to weight loss, physiologically, psychologically and behaviourally and it is not very simple for those who do have serious problems, be it an eating disorder or an endocrine problem (would you function on 1200 calories a day, when your body was so sluggish that you fatigued after being awake for an hour? Can you honestly tell me that you would go to the gym if you could barely hold your head up and ached after walking to the shop?). Some people make excuses and maybe they'll respond to tough love, maybe they won't, but everyone is different, and I suppose that's the point I'm making here.
On another note, I'll mention that I'm 20 years old. Yes, I have a lot to learn and am very inexperienced with a lot of aspects of life, but then again I feel that I'm able to empathise with people, and try to understand how they think and feel. I'm sure that there are lots of things that have happened in my life that none of you have experienced, and I don't judge your ability to discuss and debate weight loss because of that. For that reason, it does feel very patronising when people use your age as an excuse. It would be far more helpful to explain and teach me why I'm wrong, so I come out of the discussion more knowledgeable rather than simply frustrated.
This is spot on - in my opinion you are a wise 20 year old.
As a 20 year old I was a college athlete and had to eat 4 meals per day just to maintain weight. Now as a 50 year old I am 40 lbs heavier and am struggling to move it back the other way (making slow progress finally). However I do recognize the weight I have gained is MY fault, and correcting it is 100% under MY control. Life is busier with kids, job, etc., then it was at 20, but that just means that I have to be disciplined (which you are supposed to gain with age, right)?
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Teenagers are always such founts of wisdom0
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I do think your age is a factor in what you say and how you say it and it's why people are mentioning it.
Congratulations on your weight loss. At 43, I can tell you I am very experienced at weight loss. Over the years I am sure I have lost more than 80 lbs. For many of us it is making sure those pounds stay away that is the issue. I don't believe you have enough time in to know whether you will successfully keep it off or not.
I will also add in an effort to help you- that when I was your age and in "uni" I had absolutely no weight issues. I went to college full time and worked a full time job for most of those years and never gained a pound. But that doesn't mean I am superior than those that did or that I have some sort of magic formula or that I made less excuses. In fact I didn't experience true issues with my weight until I was in my my early- mid 30s. When I had a demanding career and was raising 4 kids under age 5 by myself while my husband was deployed in Iraq. Is that an excuse? I don't really think so. I was just preoccupied with things other than my weight at that time in my life. Some day you may find yourself in a similar situation in which life presents challenges that make it difficult for people to take care of themselves in the way they need to.
Compassion and empathy are so important in life in general and they don't take anymore effort than being harsh.
I really dislike this last part. Using a "tough love" approach does not mean people are devoid of compassion and empathy.
Some people (like me) respond better to tough love. If every post used the "hand holding" approach, the tough love people wouldn't be getting the support they need. In fact, when you offer 'hand holding' to someone who prefers 'tough love', it can feel very condescending and like they aren't being listened to (you're just being a yes man, when they really need someone to tell it like it is). At least that's the case for me.
Where's the empathy for them? Or should we just assume everyone has the same approach to emotions and motivation? I'm not saying we should get rid of the hand holding either. People respond to different approaches, so both approaches should be used.
When people give out "tough love", its usually because the tough love approach is what helped them. They are trying to help others with what worked for them. That's the definition of compassion and empathy.0 -
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Liftng4Lis wrote: »"joejward95 wrote: »What does having a third job have to do with weight loss?
Just hope you never have to find out for yourself junior. Oh wait. You're in "uni". That should cover you.
The more jobs you've got, the more cals you should be burning just by being on the go.
Should make things easier.
Just got to eat less now. Already got the move more bit sorted.
I'll only charge half my usual fee in this case.
You're awesome!
And, half price:
All this week!
Spring madness!
Everything must go!
(see local store for details....)0 -
herrspoons wrote: »Can anyone suffering from thyroid disorders or PCOS please state exactly why that, after effective medication and nutrient profile modification had been applied, CICO would not apply to them?
We understand these are tough medical conditions. Equally they are treatable.
Because treatment isn't about just taking a pill and being cured. It is continuing, and just because they are treatable doesn't mean they are stable. It's hard to find the right dosage for medications, and needs change as bodies change. I think it's important to reinforce to people who suffer from metabolic disorders that it CAN be done, you can and you will lose weight, so long as you dedicate yourself to both weight and disease management.
I am lucky enough to have the benefit of some medical education and a good relationship with my endocrinologist. Not everyone has my support system.
I have hypothyroidism and no medical education. I do however have an ongoing relationship with my GP and am in touch with my body. I've asked questions about my disease and know the symptoms. When I start feeling symptomatic, I can go and ask for blood tests.
I was diagnosed almost 25 years ago, so I've been at this a while, and my thyroid is practically non-functioning now. It's not an "excuse" to say that CICO doesn't apply once you're being treated. You might go through stages where the CO portion of the equation is affected because your thyroid is tanking, but other symptoms besides weight issues will show up at the party.
Anyone with a chronic medical condition should take it upon themselves to learn about it.
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Sometimes people post things on forums that are pretty frustrating especially if you see it over and over. It is like they never look outside of their own issue and take time to read and learn. Some people are really patient and reply to every thread and post. Some people are very blunt. Some people need to see blunt answers.
Losing weight takes work and patience. It isn't impossible. Nearly everyone has challenges of some sort but they can be overcome.
I'm 40 years old and have been overweight for years. I have lost weight before MFP. It was hard and did not last. I didn't know that weight loss could be as simple as CICO. I feel stupid sometimes for believing crappy things and all the wasted efforts, time, money, etc sometimes. I feel stupid for beating myself up about my weight. I'm ecstatic that a younger person knows how to lose weight sensibly and will avoid years of frustration.
I hope we all overcome our personal challenges and succeed in reaching our goals.0 -
"blah blah blah, you're younger than me so I'll disregard everything you're saying." - half this thread.0
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Therealobi1 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »You know what the thing is with the tough love vs. compassion and all the going back and forth on which is a better approach?
It doesn't matter.
If someone isn't ready to do this, they aren't ready.
Your right about being ready but also you need to have the right information to hand.
i always used to believe that to lose weight you had to be hungry and eat salad.
i was told to cut out pasta, rice and bread by one of my friends and i will lose weight (luckily i ignored that)
I came on this website and realised that all i needed to do was actually move and eat less food.
Oh, but, to take the right information on board, you need to be ready to hear it and put it to use
It's a symbiotic thing.
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herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Can anyone suffering from thyroid disorders or PCOS please state exactly why that, after effective medication and nutrient profile modification had been applied, CICO would not apply to them?
We understand these are tough medical conditions. Equally they are treatable.
Because treatment isn't about just taking a pill and being cured. It is continuing, and just because they are treatable doesn't mean they are stable. It's hard to find the right dosage for medications, and needs change as bodies change. I think it's important to reinforce to people who suffer from metabolic disorders that it CAN be done, you can and you will lose weight, so long as you dedicate yourself to both weight and disease management.
I am lucky enough to have the benefit of some medical education and a good relationship with my endocrinologist. Not everyone has my support system.
I don't dispute that medical issues can cause problems. However, once they are controlled - and I appreciate that can be a long, painful, variable process - they do not override the fundamentals of CICO.
I wouldn't argue that, but the problem, particularly with thyroid disease, is that you rarely actually reach a controlled state. Personally, I was diagnosed in 2005 and have never maintained a uniform TSH level. At one point I went from .01 (overactive) to a 13 (underactive) in a period of 10 weeks (the limit to how frequently I can have it checked). I have a great endocrinologist and follow all of his recommendations, but my body is a mess. I do my best with what I have. When I see people post about how they can't lose weight because of their thyroid condition, I always suggest that they speak with a dietitian experienced in metabolic disorders who can help them figure out their real intake needs. Online tools to calculate TDEE aren't very helpful for people with metabolic disease.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »You know what the thing is with the tough love vs. compassion and all the going back and forth on which is a better approach?
It doesn't matter.
If someone isn't ready to do this, they aren't ready.
Your right about being ready but also you need to have the right information to hand.
i always used to believe that to lose weight you had to be hungry and eat salad.
i was told to cut out pasta, rice and bread by one of my friends and i will lose weight (luckily i ignored that)
I came on this website and realised that all i needed to do was actually move and eat less food.
Oh, but, to take the right information on board, you need to be ready to hear it and put it to use It's a symbiotic thing.
"When the student is ready, the master appears"0 -
herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Can anyone suffering from thyroid disorders or PCOS please state exactly why that, after effective medication and nutrient profile modification had been applied, CICO would not apply to them?
We understand these are tough medical conditions. Equally they are treatable.
Because treatment isn't about just taking a pill and being cured. It is continuing, and just because they are treatable doesn't mean they are stable. It's hard to find the right dosage for medications, and needs change as bodies change. I think it's important to reinforce to people who suffer from metabolic disorders that it CAN be done, you can and you will lose weight, so long as you dedicate yourself to both weight and disease management.
I am lucky enough to have the benefit of some medical education and a good relationship with my endocrinologist. Not everyone has my support system.
I don't dispute that medical issues can cause problems. However, once they are controlled - and I appreciate that can be a long, painful, variable process - they do not override the fundamentals of CICO.
Yup.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »You know what the thing is with the tough love vs. compassion and all the going back and forth on which is a better approach?
It doesn't matter.
If someone isn't ready to do this, they aren't ready.
Your right about being ready but also you need to have the right information to hand.
i always used to believe that to lose weight you had to be hungry and eat salad.
i was told to cut out pasta, rice and bread by one of my friends and i will lose weight (luckily i ignored that)
I came on this website and realised that all i needed to do was actually move and eat less food.
Oh, but, to take the right information on board, you need to be ready to hear it and put it to use It's a symbiotic thing.
i would agree with that. i have friends who are not ready, so i hear you.0
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