Sugar as evil
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Of course the former is "healthier", but in general there is nothing wrong on eating out and indulge on a dessert, from time to time.Which day, then is "healthier"? The day when I cooked my own food and my sugars came from yogurt and fruit, or the day when I ate at a restaurant, exceeded my calories, and ate dessert? I also exceeded fat and cholesterol today because I had bacon and eggs for breakfast.
But seriously, Rosebette, since you have some legitimate health concerns, you should work with a dietitian. Nobody here is really qualified to give such advice.
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »MFP sets the sugar limits based on a draft WHO recommendation. The WHO recommendation is based on added sugars, but MFP does not differentiate. This leads dieters who are watching their sugars, to go over the MFP allowance on naturally occurring sugars alone.
What can they do? Drink lactose - free milk and sugar-free fruits? Insanity.
There has to be some sense applied here. Sugar is not the bugbear. The MFP limit is too low.
Actually, the limit is based on the food recommendations in the 2010 Dietary Guidelines which if followed would have about 10% of your calories coming from naturally occurring sugar. They then take it a step further and allow for another 5% for free sugars the WHO recommends. That's a total of 15% of your total calories from sugar -- 10% naturally occurring, 5% added.
All of which seems entirely reasonable to me; sensible given the current research without being alarmist.
The 10% seems misleading, since the Dietary Guidelines don't quantify it, and if someone is at reduced calories they could easily exceed the MFP percentage without even eating the full recommended amounts of fruit and veggies and dairy. The Guidelines say that Americans over 4 eat too little fruit, not too much, and also recommend increasing consumption of non fat dairy (especially switching from full fat), which are both contrary to what those focused so much on sugar would say. (I'm kind of neutral on non fat vs. full fat, but these things are ignored, as well as the reasoning given.)
On the other hand, the Dietary Guidelines do recommend a range for carbs of 45-65% (which I think is higher than lots of people need, but whatever) and a minimum fiber number, so I think this largely supports the approach many MFP-ers recommend--focus on fiber as a way to make sure that your carbs are coming largely from more nutrient-dense sources.
I'd further say pay attention to how many servings of veggies you are getting. What I find overly-simplistic and not supported by any evidence is the idea that getting more than 15% from sugar, regardless of the diet as a whole or the particular make-up of those calories is something to be concerned about, such that people fret about eating an apple or are told they'd better limit their fruit consumption to lower sugar fruits or switch from low fat to full fat dairy (which again is fine for taste reasons if that's your preference, but NOT, in fact, what the mainstream nutrition types recommend).
I'd probably be more willing to concede to your point if I actually ever saw someone on MFP exceeding the sugar limit eating whole foods. I'm absolutely sure it's possible, especially if you eat a mostly plant based diet
I go over my sugar goal regularly purely because of fruit and milk....
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Gianfranco_R wrote: »
Of course the former is "healthier", but in general there is nothing wrong on eating out and indulge on a dessert, from time to time.Which day, then is "healthier"? The day when I cooked my own food and my sugars came from yogurt and fruit, or the day when I ate at a restaurant, exceeded my calories, and ate dessert? I also exceeded fat and cholesterol today because I had bacon and eggs for breakfast.
But seriously, Rosebette, since you have some legitimate health concerns, you should work with a dietitian. Nobody here is really qualified to give such advice.
Since my "health concerns" are just that I have cholesterol 10 points higher than normal and I'm normal weight (I'm not diabetic), should the recommendation be that all of us need to use dieticians and nutritionists to determine if our diets are healthy enough? How much fine tuning do we have to do to meet all the nutritional "recommendations." As Christenev797 said, I can easily go over my sugar goal daily just because of fruit and milk. According to MFP, I never eat enough potassium (despite lots of fruits and veggies) or protein (I'm not hungry enough or have enough calories to eat more than 4 oz. of meat at a sitting), for example. At what point are we no longer concerned about "eating healthy," but obsessing (like my female friends who are now afraid to give orange juice to their children)? On the other hand, what Lustig and others say about sugar and aging is really scary.0 -
It seems that I misunderstood what you wrote in your profile page:Since my "health concerns" are just that I have cholesterol 10 points higher
Why I want to get in shape
I'm not overweight by the charts, but I've been diagnosed with high cholesterol. When my workplace program did a body fat assessment, my bodyfat was at 35%, which is very high for a woman. I need to reduce the fat in my diet and get my numbers close to normal because at my age, I'm putting my heart at risk.
Language barriers I suppose... Apologies.
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Actually, I wrote my profile over a year ago. Since then, my bodyfat is now around 31%, and my cholesterol is 40 points lower than last year. While I lost only around 5 lbs., using MFP and increasing exercise made some very significant changes to my overall health. My doctor was recommending a statin last year, but now is no longer doing so because of the downward trend in my numbers. The question is -- how much more fine-tuning is necessary? And where does the line between adjusting diet and obsessing end?0
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »MFP sets the sugar limits based on a draft WHO recommendation. The WHO recommendation is based on added sugars, but MFP does not differentiate. This leads dieters who are watching their sugars, to go over the MFP allowance on naturally occurring sugars alone.
What can they do? Drink lactose - free milk and sugar-free fruits? Insanity.
There has to be some sense applied here. Sugar is not the bugbear. The MFP limit is too low.
Actually, the limit is based on the food recommendations in the 2010 Dietary Guidelines which if followed would have about 10% of your calories coming from naturally occurring sugar. They then take it a step further and allow for another 5% for free sugars the WHO recommends. That's a total of 15% of your total calories from sugar -- 10% naturally occurring, 5% added.
All of which seems entirely reasonable to me; sensible given the current research without being alarmist.
The 10% seems misleading, since the Dietary Guidelines don't quantify it, and if someone is at reduced calories they could easily exceed the MFP percentage without even eating the full recommended amounts of fruit and veggies and dairy. The Guidelines say that Americans over 4 eat too little fruit, not too much, and also recommend increasing consumption of non fat dairy (especially switching from full fat), which are both contrary to what those focused so much on sugar would say. (I'm kind of neutral on non fat vs. full fat, but these things are ignored, as well as the reasoning given.)
On the other hand, the Dietary Guidelines do recommend a range for carbs of 45-65% (which I think is higher than lots of people need, but whatever) and a minimum fiber number, so I think this largely supports the approach many MFP-ers recommend--focus on fiber as a way to make sure that your carbs are coming largely from more nutrient-dense sources.
I'd further say pay attention to how many servings of veggies you are getting. What I find overly-simplistic and not supported by any evidence is the idea that getting more than 15% from sugar, regardless of the diet as a whole or the particular make-up of those calories is something to be concerned about, such that people fret about eating an apple or are told they'd better limit their fruit consumption to lower sugar fruits or switch from low fat to full fat dairy (which again is fine for taste reasons if that's your preference, but NOT, in fact, what the mainstream nutrition types recommend).
I'd probably be more willing to concede to your point if I actually ever saw someone on MFP exceeding the sugar limit eating whole foods. I'm absolutely sure it's possible, especially if you eat a mostly plant based diet, but that's not what I see.
Raises hand! Can't tell by looking at today since I'm consuming both sugar and fruit, but I am a vegetarian. I'm on a low calorie limit because I'm short and older. I have intolerances to processed soy, so get most of my protein through dairy and beans and legumes. I make all of my food and the only "processed" food I eat are protein bars and shakes.
I've gone over my sugar goal solely through the consumption of cottage cheese, yogurt, and a really hefty amount of non-starchy vegetables. The biggest hit to my sugar on one particular day was a heaping serving of cauliflower.
So yeah, it might be for very particular circumstances, but it CAN happen.
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herrspoons wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Why is sugar worse than fat? Because sugar is the new boogeyman? Hey, I watched my sugar for years. Read the labels. Watched it all. But many items full of sugar, like fruits, I tolerated just fine while some carbohydrates (i.e. white rice) hit this diabetic like a ton of bricks.
When my weight came off, so did the cholesterol markers, so did the diabetes. No big changes to my diet other than portions. I eat more sugar these days because I can.
I wouldn't say that sugar is worse than fat. I said limiting sugar is probably better than limiting fat. And by limiting I mean low, as in low sugar vs low fat.
Logically, by implication that's exactly what you're saying.
No, it's not at all.
Yes, you are. You say limiting sugar is probably better than limiting fat. By implication you are therefore stating that sugar is worse than fat, otherwise why limit it more?
It's pretty clear cut.
I'm not sure if you are even serious. You think that saying eating low sugar is probably better than eating low fat equates to sugar is worse than fat? I find that amusing from someone who frequently preaches bad/good needs context when it comes to food. Because I'm talking context here.0 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »
There are people that claim so. Indeed it is pretty easy: on a 1200 cals diet, the sugar limit is set at 45 grams. 3 medium bananas are enough to reach it.AlabasterVerve wrote: »I'd probably be more willing to concede to your point if I actually ever saw someone on MFP exceeding the sugar limit eating whole foods.
3 medium bananas would put you in the top 20% or higher of US fruit consumers, that needs to be considered when looking at population guidelines. From memory the average number of pieces of fruit per day is about 1.
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Yes, but there are other "natural" sources of sugar that are more readily consumed; as someone else pointed out, milk can easily help you exceed the goal as well.Gianfranco_R wrote: »
There are people that claim so. Indeed it is pretty easy: on a 1200 cals diet, the sugar limit is set at 45 grams. 3 medium bananas are enough to reach it.AlabasterVerve wrote: »I'd probably be more willing to concede to your point if I actually ever saw someone on MFP exceeding the sugar limit eating whole foods.
3 medium bananas would put you in the top 20% or higher of US fruit consumers, that needs to be considered when looking at population guidelines. From memory the average number of pieces of fruit per day is about 1.
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Yes, but there are other "natural" sources of sugar that are more readily consumed; as someone else pointed out, milk can easily help you exceed the goal as well.Gianfranco_R wrote: »
There are people that claim so. Indeed it is pretty easy: on a 1200 cals diet, the sugar limit is set at 45 grams. 3 medium bananas are enough to reach it.AlabasterVerve wrote: »I'd probably be more willing to concede to your point if I actually ever saw someone on MFP exceeding the sugar limit eating whole foods.
3 medium bananas would put you in the top 20% or higher of US fruit consumers, that needs to be considered when looking at population guidelines. From memory the average number of pieces of fruit per day is about 1.
indeed, but the population guidelines for non-dieters come out at 90 grams/day (Australia, EU) and for say 1800 cals MFP's number is 68 grams. Do these challenge typical diet patterns, or just outliers ?0 -
Yes, but there are other "natural" sources of sugar that are more readily consumed; as someone else pointed out, milk can easily help you exceed the goal as well.Gianfranco_R wrote: »
There are people that claim so. Indeed it is pretty easy: on a 1200 cals diet, the sugar limit is set at 45 grams. 3 medium bananas are enough to reach it.AlabasterVerve wrote: »I'd probably be more willing to concede to your point if I actually ever saw someone on MFP exceeding the sugar limit eating whole foods.
3 medium bananas would put you in the top 20% or higher of US fruit consumers, that needs to be considered when looking at population guidelines. From memory the average number of pieces of fruit per day is about 1.
indeed, but the population guidelines for non-dieters come out at 90 grams/day (Australia, EU) and for say 1800 cals MFP's number is 68 grams. Do these challenge typical diet patterns, or just outliers ?
That I don't know. It's just someone seemed to imply that it was impossible to exceed the limit eating whole foods. Not impossible. I would imagine most people eating mostly whole foods would not exceed their sugar limit.
That said, I personally choose to focus on whole foods but still allow room in my diet for treats including ice cream or candy in moderation, so I likely exceed the recommendation (not actually sure since I don't track sugar). But I realize that sugar isn't evil. And, I have problems with binging which I found got much worse with restriction (both with a more aggressive calorie deficit and with cutting out foods that were "unhealthy"). I've personally found moderation works for me better.
People need to find a sugar and carb level that works for them and gets them to their goals. But there's no reason to demonize moderate consumption of sugar. (I'd say the general American population does not consume sugar in moderation, which is why many people say to lower consumption; it just seems that people tend to take it too far).0 -
Indeed, but you see, these total sugar intakes seem to be thought for people who don't eat much fruit.3 medium bananas would put you in the top 20% or higher of US fruit consumers, that needs to be considered when looking at population guidelines. From memory the average number of pieces of fruit per day is about 1.
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The question is -- how much more fine-tuning is necessary? And where does the line between adjusting diet and obsessing end?
As long as your diet works, there is no need to fine-tuning it.
Regarding the line between adjusting and obsessing, I think it depends from the individual. If a person has an obsessive-compulsive personality, there are chances he develops an orthorexia nervosa. Otherwise, trying to eat healthy most of the time (following for instance the 80/20 approach) will likely make you healthier.0 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »
There are people that claim so. Indeed it is pretty easy: on a 1200 cals diet, the sugar limit is set at 45 grams. 3 medium bananas are enough to reach it.AlabasterVerve wrote: »I'd probably be more willing to concede to your point if I actually ever saw someone on MFP exceeding the sugar limit eating whole foods.
3 medium bananas would put you in the top 20% or higher of US fruit consumers, that needs to be considered when looking at population guidelines. From memory the average number of pieces of fruit per day is about 1.
Which is probably why the Dietary Guidelines say that adult Americans should eat more fruit.
That said, I don't think I've ever eaten more than two bananas in a day, and that would be a day in which I'd exercised a lot.0 -
2 cups milk -> 26g
1 banana -> 14g sugar
1 serving grapefruit -> 16g
the tomatoes in your pasta sauce -> 6.4 g
the onion in your pasta sauce -> 5g
your pasta -> 3g
We're around 70g, and we haven't had a cup of coffee or touched the "20%" part of the daily intake yet...
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I've broken the MFP sugar limit based on fruit, vegetables, and greek yogurt alone on more than on occasion.
And, I don't particularly have a sweet tooth, in fact, I actively dislike many sweet foods and drinks.0
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