Something I learned to avoid carbs
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Just eat at a deficit. Problem solved, weight will come off over time.0
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This thread is a prime example of how people over complicate a simple process in order to place the blame somewhere else, rather than taking responsibility for their own actions.0
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As I said, read about the diet and the science and understand it (short of it is body will use carbs for energy first and store what it doesn't need for later - then we eat more and it uses the carbs... And we keep storing the rest blah blah - ridiculously abridged version )
Don't dismiss it just because of a lack of understanding or because it doesn't fit in with your current beliefs. As I said earlier for almost 18 months I have been advocating CICO - convinced by it. Till I read this and understood how the body actually works and what calories actually are and how not all calories are indeed equal.
If you read her book and don't believe it - fine. But you still haven't tried it.
If you read the book and try it then you will believe it because you'll start loosing weight by eating loads more and by eating loads of fat. Butter and cheese and cream and chicken skin and full fat yoghurt are firmly back in my diet with no weighting or counting. And I am loosing weight again. And it's just SUCH an easier way of living. For me.
Formerly addicted MFP'er (as you all are) now addicted THD'er
(By the way she was also a calorie counter for YEARS) you read her book and go 'yep, that's me .... Yep...)
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kellysdavies wrote: »As I said, read about the diet and the science and understand it (short of it is body will use carbs for energy first and store what it doesn't need for later - then we eat more and it uses the carbs... And we keep storing the rest blah blah - ridiculously abridged version )
Don't dismiss it just because of a lack of understanding or because it doesn't fit in with your current beliefs. As I said earlier for almost 18 months I have been advocating CICO - convinced by it. Till I read this and understood how the body actually works and what calories actually are and how not all calories are indeed equal.
If you read her book and don't believe it - fine. But you still haven't tried it.
If you read the book and try it then you will believe it because you'll start loosing weight by eating loads more and by eating loads of fat. Butter and cheese and cream and chicken skin and full fat yoghurt are firmly back in my diet with no weighting or counting. And I am loosing weight again. And it's just SUCH an easier way of living. For me.
Formerly addicted MFP'er (as you all are) now addicted THD'er
(By the way she was also a calorie counter for YEARS) you read her book and go 'yep, that's me .... Yep...)
Can we dismiss it because what we're doing now is working and also it doesn't sound that interesting?
Damn. Why do I want fries all of a sudden?
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kellysdavies wrote: »As I said, read about the diet and the science and understand it (short of it is body will use carbs for energy first and store what it doesn't need for later - then we eat more and it uses the carbs... And we keep storing the rest blah blah - ridiculously abridged version )
Don't dismiss it just because of a lack of understanding or because it doesn't fit in with your current beliefs. As I said earlier for almost 18 months I have been advocating CICO - convinced by it. Till I read this and understood how the body actually works and what calories actually are and how not all calories are indeed equal.
If you read her book and don't believe it - fine. But you still haven't tried it.
If you read the book and try it then you will believe it because you'll start loosing weight by eating loads more and by eating loads of fat. Butter and cheese and cream and chicken skin and full fat yoghurt are firmly back in my diet with no weighting or counting. And I am loosing weight again. And it's just SUCH an easier way of living. For me.
Formerly addicted MFP'er (as you all are) now addicted THD'er
(By the way she was also a calorie counter for YEARS) you read her book and go 'yep, that's me .... Yep...)
Can we dismiss it because what we're doing now is working and also it doesn't sound that interesting?
Damn. Why do I want fries all of a sudden?
Maybe you want a side of Rude with your fries? You're not interesting. This thread is about someone who has found low carbs work for her. Something I have found too. Someone might find it interesting. It's a forum for discussion. Forums work that way.
Of course if what you're doing is working then yes dismiss it. I would have to when CICO was working for me. Now I know it can never be a 'for life' thing for me and someone else might be looking for something else too.0 -
kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »As I said, read about the diet and the science and understand it (short of it is body will use carbs for energy first and store what it doesn't need for later - then we eat more and it uses the carbs... And we keep storing the rest blah blah - ridiculously abridged version )
Don't dismiss it just because of a lack of understanding or because it doesn't fit in with your current beliefs. As I said earlier for almost 18 months I have been advocating CICO - convinced by it. Till I read this and understood how the body actually works and what calories actually are and how not all calories are indeed equal.
If you read her book and don't believe it - fine. But you still haven't tried it.
If you read the book and try it then you will believe it because you'll start loosing weight by eating loads more and by eating loads of fat. Butter and cheese and cream and chicken skin and full fat yoghurt are firmly back in my diet with no weighting or counting. And I am loosing weight again. And it's just SUCH an easier way of living. For me.
Formerly addicted MFP'er (as you all are) now addicted THD'er
(By the way she was also a calorie counter for YEARS) you read her book and go 'yep, that's me .... Yep...)
Can we dismiss it because what we're doing now is working and also it doesn't sound that interesting?
Damn. Why do I want fries all of a sudden?
Maybe you want a side of Rude with your fries? You're not interesting. This thread is about someone who has found low carbs work for her. Something I have found too. Someone might find it interesting. It's a forum for discussion. Forums work that way.
Of course if what you're doing is working then yes dismiss it. I would have to when CICO was working for me. Now I know it can never be a 'for life' thing for me and someone else might be looking for something else too.
Well. You're the one anticipating dismissal of your faddy diet with all its silly rules - I was just helping you get there. Another poster raised an interesting point on how you never actually did calorie counting right. The fact that you would cite ever doing 800 cals a day is an extremely important clue to NEVER EVER try any diet that you would recommend. At least I wouldn't - side of "rude" aside
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What MrM said. If you're in a deficit you're in a deficit. You don't eat enough carbs for your body to store them long term.0
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I guess Kool-Aid is not a carb, cause OP has apparently drunk it.0
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Why is it faddy? Have you actually read it? No. What silly rules? Why silly? You have no idea. You're making assumptions with no proper knowledge because you don't want to believe there *might* just be another way. Open your mind.
I don't get what you mean about the 800 calorie thing?
I was 10stone12. Goal weight 8stone10 (still upper end of the range for my height - could go down to 7stone10). I did TDEE for about a year. I got down to 9stone2. It worked! I was only on about 1300 cals a day but it worked. Over a year (maybe a bit more)
Then it stopped working. My BMR and TDEE are very low as it is (I'm 5ft1, woman, 36). I didn't lose for 6 months. Yes I weighed everything. Yes I was accurate with my recordings. I sat it out. Then I reduced my calories to 1000 a day and I was lost about half a pound in 4 weeks. If that. This wasn't maintenance - I still had more to lose. To lose any more I'd have to go to 800 calories. Did I say I did ? NO. I didn't want to. I don't want to. It's ludicrous. So I started researching why this was and what I could do. Done this diet for a month and now down to 8stone13.
So read posts properly before you make silly comments. Embarrassing yourself. Awkward.0 -
It can't be denied that the American population has an obesity problem. The trend for body weight in Americans has increased over time.
Agreed.The common belief is that weight gain in Americans is due to dietary choices and lack of physical activity.
Eat less; move more. So sure, although I hate generalizations about "common beliefs" I'll agree.Due to technological advances in food production, food is more convenient. Foods are more processed than ever before. Processed foods require little to no cooking time. Processed foods appear to be the staple of the American diet.
Yes, I think convenience/cost is one factor (hardly the only one).
As for processed foods being the staple of the American diet, I assume you really mean "highly processed" of a particular type, right? We aren't freaking out about the fact that there are FAR more pre-packaged and even pre-chopped veggies than there used to be, right? Or about greek yogurt, etc.? Anyway, they never have been in my family and don't seem to be in the social circles I know. But I don't claim to be typical, and don't really know.
So I suspect this is true, to a point, but would like your support for this, how it was determined, what the definitions used are.Processed foods are mostly refined carbohydrates.
Not true. They are varied, again depending on what's included. Boxed meals have protein and fat, fast food has a LOT of fat. Fat and refined carbs have both increased, along with total calories, and the ratio hasn't changed all that much (and again isn't particularly high in carbs compared to lots of traditional healthy diets). No question the SAD is not ideal, but the issue isn't carb ratios. (Nor does the US eat less protein on average than many healthy traditional diets. Indeed, the Nurses Study used to discuss the problems with processed carbs ALSO finds that there's a correlation between sat fat/meat and obesity.)Americans are deviating farther and farther from whole foods. Dare I say foods with a higher GI index?
GI index is irrelevant, since NO ONE eats foods on their own. People use GI to slam fruit and, of course, rice and potatoes and pasta, yet potatoes are a whole food that can be quite nutritious, and countries that eat more rice and pasta than we do are less fat.Yes. The common answer to the obesity problem is "eat less, move more" But does it work? Moving more doesn't work for weight loss. Roughly 1900 people where examined who engaged in a 6 month or 12 month exercise program which consisted of moderate aerobic activity. Results? In 6 months or 12 months, the weight loss from exercise alone was roughly 3 pounds.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21787904
Why this is a terrible study has been discussed. (It's minimal activity, people not used to exercising and who will feel like they've done far more than in reality they have.)
Also, a better comparison focuses on overall activity. The US is fatter and less active than many other countries and the same trend holds true between different specific locations in the US.
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kellysdavies wrote: »Why is it faddy? Have you actually read it? No. What silly rules? Why silly? You have no idea. You're making assumptions with no proper knowledge because you don't want to believe there *might* just be another way. Open your mind.
I don't get what you mean about the 800 calorie thing?
I was 10stone12. Goal weight 8stone10 (still upper end of the range for my height - could go down to 7stone10). I did TDEE for about a year. I got down to 9stone2. It worked! I was only on about 1300 cals a day but it worked. Over a year (maybe a bit more)
Then it stopped working. My BMR and TDEE are very low as it is (I'm 5ft1, woman, 36). I didn't lose for 6 months. Yes I weighed everything. Yes I was accurate with my recordings. I sat it out. Then I reduced my calories to 1000 a day and I was lost about half a pound in 4 weeks. If that. This wasn't maintenance - I still had more to lose. To lose any more I'd have to go to 800 calories. Did I say I did ? NO. I didn't want to. I don't want to. It's ludicrous. So I started researching why this was and what I could do. Done this diet for a month and now down to 8stone13.
So read posts properly before you make silly comments. Embarrassing yourself. Awkward.
You sound hangry
A whole month, whoa there. Show us how it's done, why don't you. You do know that low carb will almost always initially show a water weight loss due to dumping glycogen from your muscles, right?0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »Check our Zoe Harcombe diet/book. Utterly changed my thinking on low calorie diets and utterly convinced me about low carb diets. After over a year on a low calorie diet (which initially worked using MFP) and then gradually only basically being able to eat 800 calories a day (short) to lose half a pound a week (with over a stone to go) this diet has changed my life and I've started losing weight again while eating at least double this amount and never feeling hungry. It's a bloody revelation. I was totally in the MFP a calorie is a calorie camp and now I am totally not. Now I understand the science and tried it myself and it flaming works. This video is how I got hooked and I am so happy I never have to count a calorie again...because MFP'ers a calorie is not a calorie after all.
You were most likely in desperate need of a refeed after eating at deficit for so long. I'm not going to bother watching that video. You've now refed your body, adjusted your metabolism, and started losing again... which, if you had followed the advice around here, you'd have known about.
I remember you. You were eating dangerously low calorie for a long time, and never asked for help. You should NEVER have blithely gone below 1200 calories without asking for advice.
Makes no sense. I'm loosing weight again yes. WITHOUT counting calories and eating around 2000 a day (couldn't resist putting them into the MFP)
I didn't blithely go. My BMR and TDEE are very low anyway. I wasn't loosing weight because my body had adjusted to a VLCD so was storing whatever it could.
I love how everyone can dismiss it when they haven't even tried it. Lol. Good one.0 -
I think people do understand it, they just tend to ignore it. You can look at the label of a candy bar, and see the calorie burn on the exercise machine you're doing.(despite the fact it being inaccurate).
I think they are in denial. The machine being inaccurate is part of that, but it's true beyond that often when there's no machine, especially if it's like the study where they pick people not used to exercising and make them do something tedious in a gym.
In another thread today someone is calling everyone mean and nasty because they questioned the likelihood of regular 1000 calorie burns at the gym.
I don't believe the reason people eat more after relatively light exercise is real hunger, for the most part. I know that's not consistent with my experience--I tend to eat less when moving more if it's part of an overall effort to get more fit.
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Why not? Why can't we eat fat and carbs together?kellysdavies wrote: »It isn't a diet which prevents carbs. You just don't eat carbs and fats together. One meal might be a carb meal (say porridge with a banana) one meal a fat meal (massive pork chop and all the crackling and loads of veg - you can have low carbs with fats (salad/veg etc).
And you can eat cheese. All the time.
It works! Amazing. Google the diet to find out more before you dismiss it.
Fooooooood combining!
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It can't be denied that the American population has an obesity problem. The trend for body weight in Americans has increased over time. The common belief is that weight gain in Americans is due to dietary choices and lack of physical activity. Due to technological advances in food production, food is more convenient. Foods are more processed than ever before. Processed foods require little to no cooking time. Processed foods appear to be the staple of the American diet. Processed foods are mostly refined carbohydrates. Type 2 diabetes was practically unheard of in children. In 2004 diabetes in children was 5%, that percentage has increased to 20%. 80% of children who are diabetic are over weight, and 40% of those are considered medically obese.
Americans are deviating farther and farther from whole foods. Dare I say foods with a higher GI index? Yes. The common answer to the obesity problem is "eat less, move more" But does it work? Moving more doesn't work for weight loss. Roughly 1900 people where examined who engaged in a 6 month or 12 month exercise program which consisted of moderate aerobic activity. Results? In 6 months or 12 months, the weight loss from exercise alone was roughly 3 pounds.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21787904
So the "exercise more" part in the "eat less exercise more" can be removed. That's not a viable means to help the obesity problem. All we're left with is, "eat less", things that help a person eat less are below.
Choose Lower GI Foods(reduce the intake of processed carbs)
"We examine whether the consumption of low-glycemic index (GI) carbohydrates may facilitate a reduction in energy intake in obese people attempting to lose weight. Although data from long-term studies are lacking, short-term investigations indicate that consumption of low-GI carbohydrates may delay the return of hunger and reduce subsequent energy intake relative to consumption of higher-GI carbohydrates. While long-term research on GI and weight regulation is needed, current evidence suggests a potential role for low-GI carbohydrates in weight-reducing regimens."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12841427
"Choose Foods that reduce elevated insulin levels(reduce the intake of processed carbs)
Additionally, central administration of insulin antibodies increases food intake and body weight. "
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14749506
Increase protein (reduce the intake of processed foods)
"It is well established that under most conditions, protein is more satiating than the isoenergetic ingestion of carbohydrate or fat (8, 11-13). This suggests that a modest increase in protein, at the expense of the other macronutrients, may promote satiety and facilitate weight loss through reduced energy consumption (20)."
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/87/5/1558S.long
ETA: The main reason I brought up diabetic children is because those are insulin/glucose related issues. Before they where virtually unheard of in children, now they are more common than ever before, so is child hood obesity. Connect the dots?
I think the thing people tend to overlook with the 'eat less, move more' message for reducing obesity is that this is also aimed at preventing people from becoming obese in the first place. ie growing healthy habits before there is a problem. Shocking, I know. And in that light, exercise absolutely is a viable means to help the obesity problem (I also happen to think it's a damn good idea for those who have already eaten themselves into obesity as part of developing a healthier lifestyle. Anyone dismissing it out of hand just sounds like they're making excuses to not get off their butt).0 -
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What makes no sense? That he lost 3 times as much as you doing what you say didn't work?kellysdavies wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »Check our Zoe Harcombe diet/book. Utterly changed my thinking on low calorie diets and utterly convinced me about low carb diets. After over a year on a low calorie diet (which initially worked using MFP) and then gradually only basically being able to eat 800 calories a day (short) to lose half a pound a week (with over a stone to go) this diet has changed my life and I've started losing weight again while eating at least double this amount and never feeling hungry. It's a bloody revelation. I was totally in the MFP a calorie is a calorie camp and now I am totally not. Now I understand the science and tried it myself and it flaming works. This video is how I got hooked and I am so happy I never have to count a calorie again...because MFP'ers a calorie is not a calorie after all.
You were most likely in desperate need of a refeed after eating at deficit for so long. I'm not going to bother watching that video. You've now refed your body, adjusted your metabolism, and started losing again... which, if you had followed the advice around here, you'd have known about.
I remember you. You were eating dangerously low calorie for a long time, and never asked for help. You should NEVER have blithely gone below 1200 calories without asking for advice.
Makes no sense. I'm loosing weight again yes. WITHOUT counting calories and eating around 2000 a day (couldn't resist putting them into the MFP)
I didn't blithely go. My BMR and TDEE are very low anyway. I wasn't loosing weight because my body had adjusted to a VLCD so was storing whatever it could.
I love how everyone can dismiss it when they haven't even tried it. Lol. Good one.
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For me, it's just a preference. I know I have to eat at a deficit to lose weight. I prefer to do that with a reduced carb and high protein diet. It's what works best for me.
I think people should do what they find easiest. I found about 100 grams of carbs easier when I was doing lower calories and not exercising as much, since I just find carbs the easiest thing to cut (rice is boring, meat isn't IMO). But when I'm exercising a lot I do feel better eating more carbs.
I don't question the benefits of lowering carbs to people who like eating that way, I just get tired of the low carb evangelism and faux scientific claims as well as the bizarre conflation of low carb and eating "healthy," as if all of us who eat, say, 40% carbs are spending the day eating Twinkies and McDs.
I wish we could all have a truce, and avoid the tedious nonsense.0 -
kellysdavies wrote: »Why is it faddy? Have you actually read it? No. What silly rules? Why silly? You have no idea. You're making assumptions with no proper knowledge because you don't want to believe there *might* just be another way. Open your mind.
I don't get what you mean about the 800 calorie thing?
I was 10stone12. Goal weight 8stone10 (still upper end of the range for my height - could go down to 7stone10). I did TDEE for about a year. I got down to 9stone2. It worked! I was only on about 1300 cals a day but it worked. Over a year (maybe a bit more)
Then it stopped working. My BMR and TDEE are very low as it is (I'm 5ft1, woman, 36). I didn't lose for 6 months. Yes I weighed everything. Yes I was accurate with my recordings. I sat it out. Then I reduced my calories to 1000 a day and I was lost about half a pound in 4 weeks. If that. This wasn't maintenance - I still had more to lose. To lose any more I'd have to go to 800 calories. Did I say I did ? NO. I didn't want to. I don't want to. It's ludicrous. So I started researching why this was and what I could do. Done this diet for a month and now down to 8stone13.
So read posts properly before you make silly comments. Embarrassing yourself. Awkward.
I'm 5'1" and a lot older than you. I've read these boards enough to know there are no special snowflakes and to know this: You should have done a refeed instead of lowering your calories, you were probably experiencing adaptive thermogensis.
If you had simply kept to the foods you were eating, slowly upped your calories to what your maintenance levels were, eaten that way for a week or two, then gradually lowered them back down again? You would have started losing again.
Food combining is quite possibly one of the silliest diet concepts ever.
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kellysdavies wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »Check our Zoe Harcombe diet/book. Utterly changed my thinking on low calorie diets and utterly convinced me about low carb diets. After over a year on a low calorie diet (which initially worked using MFP) and then gradually only basically being able to eat 800 calories a day (short) to lose half a pound a week (with over a stone to go) this diet has changed my life and I've started losing weight again while eating at least double this amount and never feeling hungry. It's a bloody revelation. I was totally in the MFP a calorie is a calorie camp and now I am totally not. Now I understand the science and tried it myself and it flaming works. This video is how I got hooked and I am so happy I never have to count a calorie again...because MFP'ers a calorie is not a calorie after all.
You were most likely in desperate need of a refeed after eating at deficit for so long. I'm not going to bother watching that video. You've now refed your body, adjusted your metabolism, and started losing again... which, if you had followed the advice around here, you'd have known about.
I remember you. You were eating dangerously low calorie for a long time, and never asked for help. You should NEVER have blithely gone below 1200 calories without asking for advice.
Makes no sense. I'm loosing weight again yes. WITHOUT counting calories and eating around 2000 a day (couldn't resist putting them into the MFP)
I didn't blithely go. My BMR and TDEE are very low anyway. I wasn't loosing weight because my body had adjusted to a VLCD so was storing whatever it could.
I love how everyone can dismiss it when they haven't even tried it. Lol. Good one.
@kellysdavies Can you please respond?
So what you're saying is that by eating fat and carbs together we will not be able to lose fat because our bodies are always burning carbs? So at no point in the day will our body tap into stored fat reserves for energy since we are in a caloric deficit? Does eating fat and carbs negate the laws of thermodynamics?
Can you explain to me why then was I able to lose the weight I wanted to (75 lbs) all without following that rule to not eat fat and carbs together?
All I can suggest is downloading Zoe's book to understand - there is WAY more to her theories and diet. I didn't say you won't lose weight with CICO - you will. Hey I did! I lost over a stone over a year. I was a dedicated MFP'er. I couldn't believe everyone else was so stupid and didn't realise it was basic CICO. Eat at deficit you morons. Duh! And then things changed when I realised I couldn't eat much to even maintain weight!
If want to do this forever and eat at a deficit forever - cool man. But it wasn't the lifestyle I wanted and I *still* hadn't got to target weight and the thought of how few calories I would be able to eat at maintenance made me sad. I can't do that forever. I don't want to. I don't personally think counting calories forever is a good way to enjoy food and living. But that's just me!kellysdavies wrote: »
You're saying he can lose weight while in a caloric surplus?
Yes. Yes I can. Because not all calories are equal but 90% of you will never believe this because I didn't! I can't stress how devoted I was to this. I mocked people who thought otherwise. A bit like you all are now! Ha ha. Oh well. I've said my bit. We all make our choices. Just saying there *is* another way.
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stevencloser wrote: »
What makes no sense? That he lost 3 times as much as you doing what you say didn't work?kellysdavies wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »Check our Zoe Harcombe diet/book. Utterly changed my thinking on low calorie diets and utterly convinced me about low carb diets. After over a year on a low calorie diet (which initially worked using MFP) and then gradually only basically being able to eat 800 calories a day (short) to lose half a pound a week (with over a stone to go) this diet has changed my life and I've started losing weight again while eating at least double this amount and never feeling hungry. It's a bloody revelation. I was totally in the MFP a calorie is a calorie camp and now I am totally not. Now I understand the science and tried it myself and it flaming works. This video is how I got hooked and I am so happy I never have to count a calorie again...because MFP'ers a calorie is not a calorie after all.
You were most likely in desperate need of a refeed after eating at deficit for so long. I'm not going to bother watching that video. You've now refed your body, adjusted your metabolism, and started losing again... which, if you had followed the advice around here, you'd have known about.
I remember you. You were eating dangerously low calorie for a long time, and never asked for help. You should NEVER have blithely gone below 1200 calories without asking for advice.
Makes no sense. I'm loosing weight again yes. WITHOUT counting calories and eating around 2000 a day (couldn't resist putting them into the MFP)
I didn't blithely go. My BMR and TDEE are very low anyway. I wasn't loosing weight because my body had adjusted to a VLCD so was storing whatever it could.
I love how everyone can dismiss it when they haven't even tried it. Lol. Good one.
What is this point meant to make? I LOST WEIGHT ON CICO.
If I had lost 3 x what I did lose on CICO I would be less about 6 stone. Lol.
It makes no sense (on your theory) that I had a refeed and am now losing weight again..... because this time I am not counting calories and eating over double what I was on CICO and am over a stone (well a bit more actually) lighter than when I first started CICO in March last year.
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Kelly, how much weight have you lost since starting the Harcombe thing?0
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