Something I learned to avoid carbs
Replies
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mamapeach910 wrote: »lilaclovebird wrote: »
I feel If I had issues with food, then dragons need to be slayed. I don't have any. This is also is inline with @Nony_Mouse comment. Maybe both of your issues are different than the issues you believe i have.mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »
Eating the same types of foods in the same ratios, i doubt they'd go away. e.g. just focusing on calories and not macros and not changing your dietary choices. From my personal experience, i have done a lot of stuff through my weight loss. But i do recall when i made poor dietary choices e.g. junk food, i was hungrier and I'd weight knuckle my calorie goal.
Artificial hunger signals... are just that. They're not real. Do you think they're going to go away or do you plan to be hungry the rest of your life? This is why a lot of people adopt a lower carb life style, one of the benefits is those artificial hunger signals aren't presents.PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »mandyclay1982 wrote: »Carbs cause insulin levels to rise in your body, which in return make you eat more and gain weight. Carbs are horrible! You wanna see some fast weightloss? Just setyour carbs to 20%
and you will be blown away 
There is no such thing as a food that makes you eat more. You either eat or you don't.
If you're hungry, are you going to eat more or less of it?
I'm not going to eat anything just because my body is giving artificial hunger signals when it doesn't need anything. That was what got me overweight in the first place.
They do in fact subside but really who only fills their day with junk food?
Someone who is trying to make a point that "carbs" aren't the issue. It boils down to calories only. Which was my thinking a while ago. Yes a calorie deficit is a must for weight loss, but for long term weight loss, there is more to it than that.
Been there done that. You know what happens to people who "ignore" their hunger signals? They gain their weight back. It's not different than doing a starvation type diet. People usually end up binging and gaining the weight back. I did ignore it, i ignored it to lose 193lbs, then the weight started to come back. I knew it was getting out of control, i knew i was binging on processed carbs so i cut them out, wasn't hungry, and was losing effortlessly.PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »
Artificial hunger signals... are just that. They're not real. Do you think they're going to go away or do you plan to be hungry the rest of your life? This is why a lot of people adopt a lower carb life style, one of the benefits is those artificial hunger signals aren't presents.PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »mandyclay1982 wrote: »Carbs cause insulin levels to rise in your body, which in return make you eat more and gain weight. Carbs are horrible! You wanna see some fast weightloss? Just setyour carbs to 20% and you will be blown away
There is no such thing as a food that makes you eat more. You either eat or you don't.
If you're hungry, are you going to eat more or less of it?
I'm not going to eat anything just because my body is giving artificial hunger signals when it doesn't need anything. That was what got me overweight in the first place.
I ignore them, the same way I ignore commercial breaks on TV. It doesn't hurt, it's not a struggle, it's not torture, because I know for a fact I don't need any more food. Give it a try.
It's quite a bit different from a starvation diet. I'm not weak, tired, distracted, or having stomach pain because I haven't jumped up and raided the fridge every time I felt munchy. I'm fully nourished, I know I'm nourished, I feel nourished, and there isn't the slightest inclination to binge because I always have a little of something I enjoy, every single day.
I already demonstrated that an average high women has all her needs met on 900 calories a day, which of course is a starvation diet.
You said you get "false hunger signals" meaning you feel hungry, i do see this as an inclination to binge. But in all sincerity, i honestly hope what you believe is true for you, i frankly been in your shoes and it wasn't true for me.
I get "false hunger signals" with no inclination to binge. Boredom, stress, getting emotional.... I'm hungry! (no I'm not). I use willpower to not eat anything (let alone stuff my face), get on with something else and forget about food pretty quick.
SOrry wrong word, binging, "over eating" happy? If you're calorie goals are met, and you're hungry, you're "inclined" to over eat.. that's what hunger is, a desire for food.
No, not happy. Perhaps YOU are inclined to overeat because you can't control yourself, personally, I can say no to food and don't need to keep eating.
Lets break it down for you. "FALSE HUNGER SIGNALS"
False - not according with truth or fact; incorrect.
"the test can produce false results"
synonyms: incorrect, untrue, wrong, erroneous, fallacious, flawed, distorted, inaccurate, imprecise
Hunger - a feeling of discomfort or weakness caused by lack of food, coupled with the desire to eat.
"she was faint with hunger"
synonyms: lack of food, hungriness, ravenousness,
Signals - a gesture, action, or sound that is used to convey information or instructions, typically by prearrangement between the parties concerned.
"the firing of the gun was the signal for a chain of beacons to be lit"
synonyms: gesture, sign, wave, gesticulation, cue, indication, warning, motion
False hunger can be stated such as a incorrect instruction from the body that is accompanied by a desire to eat.
Question: why do you have the need to say "NO" ??? Doesn't sound like long term sustainable weight loss.
Pu, what is being referred to in this thread as "false hunger" is more appropriately called hedonic hunger. Look it up.
The bottom line? You don't need to give in to every desire you ever have. AND IT GOES AWAY OVER TIME.
Does it really go away? How you think i got down to my lowest, eating as much as i wanted of whatever? There have been countless times I denied myself of food. I did it for over 2yrs. Yet I started to gain again. This is why people relapse. I was on the verge of a massive relapse. Go look at people who have lost massive weight and gained it back. They couldn't lose the weight unless the deprived themselves of certain foods.
Chrysalid2014 said exactly what I have been trying to convey. I have said it in other topics. Calorie counting is a controlled environment. Once you deviate from calorie counting you will more than likely start gaining again. This is what happened to me. As I also suggested you can look at many others who have lost weight and gained it back. This is what I am trying to help people avoid.
Yes, it goes away. You haven't conquered your demons yet. It's apparent in everything you write.
Go slay some internal dragons son. You have work to do. Sorry to be blunt, but I don't know why it wasn't more evident to me until this point.
Regarding calorie counting being a controlled environment? SO WHAT? Wearing my eyeglasses is a controlled environment.
Calorie counting is a tool to control your portions. Nothing more, nothing less. I plan to do it to maintain, because I suck at eyeballing things. Just like I need my glasses to see, I need help gauging correct portion sizes to maintain an ideal weight for my frame. AND SO WHAT? Is it a problem that a handyman needs a hammer to bang in a nail? If calorie counting isn't for you? Great. No biggie. But don't project and try to make a "thing" out of your issues with it.
For every way of eating, there are people who regain weight. It's an invalid criticism of any type of eating plan to throw "weight regain" at it.
I am not trying to toot my own horn, but as I have mentioned, I have been over weight most of my life, been trying to lose weight since I was roughly 13yrs old, I am 33 now. After countless failed attempts, you think I didn't learn anything in over 20yrs of trial and error? My library is 90% books on diet and weight loss. Many of them are bad books, but they did was give me a learning experience.
I've been there in both of your situations. Well with the emotional eating thing... I am not sure if I can relate, maybe i call it something different yet we're both are talking about the same thing. Have I gained weight on low carb as mamapecahes has? Yes. This was due to the fact I simply lacked understanding of the subject.
As I said before, weight loss is a multifaceted issue. Psychological, emotional, genetics, dietary. I doubt that most people who came to MFP, didn't cut down on processed foods. There is a youtube video kind of long 2hrs i believe. It had the most popular diet authors. Atkins, Sears(The Zone), USDA, Obesity research people, the sugar buster guy, Dean Ornish, Mcdougull. The discussion started with Low carb, and it progressed through the carb guidelines of the authors. So it went from low carb, to high carbs, and everything in between. Of course they all disagreed on dietary choices. But 1 thing they all agreed on was to reduce the intake of refined carbs aka sugars.
Then I trust NONE of them because they ALL should have agreed on CICO as well.
I guess you missed what I said earlier. Proceesed foods are usually higher in calories. I said that insulin and calories go hand in hand. You can look at the problem from an insulin perspective or a calorie perspective. Anytime you eat, insulin goes up. Some foods increase insulin more than others. If you reduce the intake of these goods that cause a large increase of insulin, you're also reducing calories. It's not possible to have elevated levels of insulin and lose weight. Insulin is a storage hormone. Insulin is what stores excess calories as fat.
Low carb and high carb diets(vegan style carbs) have 1 thing in common. A reduction of insulin levels which goes in line with a reduction of calories. So indirectly they all agree about CICO.
IN A DEFICIT... it doesn't matter, Pu.
Stop banging on about insulin. Insulin won't lead to fat storage in a deficit.
That's not true. In a deficit one can assume that fat loss can occur, but that's not even 100% accurate. You can lose muscle in a deficit - not just fat. In fact, you can lose all muscle and no fat in a deficit.
You store energy when insulin levels are raised sufficiently that the muscle glycogen is replenished - the rest is stored as fat between fat cells and organs.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1083868/
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Weight loss doesn't necessarily take longer than weight gain. I lost a bunch of weight at 2 lbs/week. I gained weight pretty rapidly the last time, but even so not at 2 lbs/week.0
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Proteins make you feel satiated better than carbs. If you can control your appetite, why don't you? And then, veggies. Yes, they are carbs, but they are low in calories, rich in water and fiber. Again, important in controlling your appetite.
Sugar, and a particular combination of sugar, salt and fat well known in the processed food industry, make you eat more. Sorry, but losing weight doesn't come in a one liner. You need ALL nutrients. For your own good, and for sake of your waistline, it helps to stay clear of processed food, also known as junk
But hey, it's all down to calories, so as long as you don't go over, you can eat what you like better. 0 -
That's a great tip! I am glad it works for you. I log all the food I plan on eating in the morning and then only eat what I have put into my log. It lets me take a look at the macros from the beginning and also helps me stay accountable to what my goals are.
I reduce carbs as well since it is often a trigger food for me. That doesn't make carbs good or bad, it is just what works best for me. I see no need to fight or belittle others for what works for them.
I really don't think it is belittling others if it works for you but then again you have people step up to the plate and say that all processed foods are evil and you will in fact get fat when you eat them and you won't be able to control your self. Food is food and we've let it take such a hold over us that in turn we have to blame it because we can't look at ourselves and say I really liked that and I want more vs it made me do it. It's like saying the gun made you do it and it's not the welders fault.0 -
This assumes that enough protein is eaten to keep muscle - just because muscle glycogen is replenished doesn't mean muscle can be retained - that's protein's job. Hence macros being very important in the grand scheme of things.
CICO is dependent upon the "CO" part as well as the "CI" part. If you aren't expending enough in energy throughout the day, no reason to burn fat - therefore - to keep it and accumulate it over time.
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TheCholesterolLie wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »
Eating the same types of foods in the same ratios, i doubt they'd go away. e.g. just focusing on calories and not macros and not changing your dietary choices. From my personal experience, i have done a lot of stuff through my weight loss. But i do recall when i made poor dietary choices e.g. junk food, i was hungrier and I'd weight knuckle my calorie goal.
Artificial hunger signals... are just that. They're not real. Do you think they're going to go away or do you plan to be hungry the rest of your life? This is why a lot of people adopt a lower carb life style, one of the benefits is those artificial hunger signals aren't presents.PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »mandyclay1982 wrote: »Carbs cause insulin levels to rise in your body, which in return make you eat more and gain weight. Carbs are horrible! You wanna see some fast weightloss? Just setyour carbs to 20% and you will be blown away
There is no such thing as a food that makes you eat more. You either eat or you don't.
If you're hungry, are you going to eat more or less of it?
I'm not going to eat anything just because my body is giving artificial hunger signals when it doesn't need anything. That was what got me overweight in the first place.
They do in fact subside but really who only fills their day with junk food?
Someone who is trying to make a point that "carbs" aren't the issue. It boils down to calories only. Which was my thinking a while ago. Yes a calorie deficit is a must for weight loss, but for long term weight loss, there is more to it than that.
Been there done that. You know what happens to people who "ignore" their hunger signals? They gain their weight back. It's not different than doing a starvation type diet. People usually end up binging and gaining the weight back. I did ignore it, i ignored it to lose 193lbs, then the weight started to come back. I knew it was getting out of control, i knew i was binging on processed carbs so i cut them out, wasn't hungry, and was losing effortlessly.PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »
Artificial hunger signals... are just that. They're not real. Do you think they're going to go away or do you plan to be hungry the rest of your life? This is why a lot of people adopt a lower carb life style, one of the benefits is those artificial hunger signals aren't presents.PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »mandyclay1982 wrote: »Carbs cause insulin levels to rise in your body, which in return make you eat more and gain weight. Carbs are horrible! You wanna see some fast weightloss? Just setyour carbs to 20% and you will be blown away
There is no such thing as a food that makes you eat more. You either eat or you don't.
If you're hungry, are you going to eat more or less of it?
I'm not going to eat anything just because my body is giving artificial hunger signals when it doesn't need anything. That was what got me overweight in the first place.
I ignore them, the same way I ignore commercial breaks on TV. It doesn't hurt, it's not a struggle, it's not torture, because I know for a fact I don't need any more food. Give it a try.
It's quite a bit different from a starvation diet. I'm not weak, tired, distracted, or having stomach pain because I haven't jumped up and raided the fridge every time I felt munchy. I'm fully nourished, I know I'm nourished, I feel nourished, and there isn't the slightest inclination to binge because I always have a little of something I enjoy, every single day.
I already demonstrated that an average high women has all her needs met on 900 calories a day, which of course is a starvation diet.
You said you get "false hunger signals" meaning you feel hungry, i do see this as an inclination to binge. But in all sincerity, i honestly hope what you believe is true for you, i frankly been in your shoes and it wasn't true for me.
I get "false hunger signals" with no inclination to binge. Boredom, stress, getting emotional.... I'm hungry! (no I'm not). I use willpower to not eat anything (let alone stuff my face), get on with something else and forget about food pretty quick.
SOrry wrong word, binging, "over eating" happy? If you're calorie goals are met, and you're hungry, you're "inclined" to over eat.. that's what hunger is, a desire for food.
No, not happy. Perhaps YOU are inclined to overeat because you can't control yourself, personally, I can say no to food and don't need to keep eating.
Lets break it down for you. "FALSE HUNGER SIGNALS"
False - not according with truth or fact; incorrect.
"the test can produce false results"
synonyms: incorrect, untrue, wrong, erroneous, fallacious, flawed, distorted, inaccurate, imprecise
Hunger - a feeling of discomfort or weakness caused by lack of food, coupled with the desire to eat.
"she was faint with hunger"
synonyms: lack of food, hungriness, ravenousness,
Signals - a gesture, action, or sound that is used to convey information or instructions, typically by prearrangement between the parties concerned.
"the firing of the gun was the signal for a chain of beacons to be lit"
synonyms: gesture, sign, wave, gesticulation, cue, indication, warning, motion
False hunger can be stated such as a incorrect instruction from the body that is accompanied by a desire to eat.
Question: why do you have the need to say "NO" ??? Doesn't sound like long term sustainable weight loss.
Because it's not real, physical hunger. It's psychological, and learning to tell the difference and being able to say no to false hunger/appetite is pretty damn key to long term weight management.
Your weight is managed INVOLUNTARILY. WILLPOWER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH L;ONG TERM. IT IS BIOLOGICAL.
What? It is very much psychological and willpower focused. I no longer need 2400 calories a day to eat because I had the willpower to reduce my intake. Biologically I would of stayed at 263 lbs if I listened to my body.0 -
tedboosalis7 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »lilaclovebird wrote: »
I feel If I had issues with food, then dragons need to be slayed. I don't have any. This is also is inline with @Nony_Mouse comment. Maybe both of your issues are different than the issues you believe i have.mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »
Eating the same types of foods in the same ratios, i doubt they'd go away. e.g. just focusing on calories and not macros and not changing your dietary choices. From my personal experience, i have done a lot of stuff through my weight loss. But i do recall when i made poor dietary choices e.g. junk food, i was hungrier and I'd weight knuckle my calorie goal.
Artificial hunger signals... are just that. They're not real. Do you think they're going to go away or do you plan to be hungry the rest of your life? This is why a lot of people adopt a lower carb life style, one of the benefits is those artificial hunger signals aren't presents.PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »mandyclay1982 wrote: »Carbs cause insulin levels to rise in your body, which in return make you eat more and gain weight. Carbs are horrible! You wanna see some fast weightloss? Just setyour carbs to 20% and you will be blown away
There is no such thing as a food that makes you eat more. You either eat or you don't.
If you're hungry, are you going to eat more or less of it?
I'm not going to eat anything just because my body is giving artificial hunger signals when it doesn't need anything. That was what got me overweight in the first place.
They do in fact subside but really who only fills their day with junk food?
Someone who is trying to make a point that "carbs" aren't the issue. It boils down to calories only. Which was my thinking a while ago. Yes a calorie deficit is a must for weight loss, but for long term weight loss, there is more to it than that.
Been there done that. You know what happens to people who "ignore" their hunger signals? They gain their weight back. It's not different than doing a starvation type diet. People usually end up binging and gaining the weight back. I did ignore it, i ignored it to lose 193lbs, then the weight started to come back. I knew it was getting out of control, i knew i was binging on processed carbs so i cut them out, wasn't hungry, and was losing effortlessly.PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »
Artificial hunger signals... are just that. They're not real. Do you think they're going to go away or do you plan to be hungry the rest of your life? This is why a lot of people adopt a lower carb life style, one of the benefits is those artificial hunger signals aren't presents.PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »mandyclay1982 wrote: »Carbs cause insulin levels to rise in your body, which in return make you eat more and gain weight. Carbs are horrible! You wanna see some fast weightloss? Just setyour carbs to 20% and you will be blown away
There is no such thing as a food that makes you eat more. You either eat or you don't.
If you're hungry, are you going to eat more or less of it?
I'm not going to eat anything just because my body is giving artificial hunger signals when it doesn't need anything. That was what got me overweight in the first place.
I ignore them, the same way I ignore commercial breaks on TV. It doesn't hurt, it's not a struggle, it's not torture, because I know for a fact I don't need any more food. Give it a try.
It's quite a bit different from a starvation diet. I'm not weak, tired, distracted, or having stomach pain because I haven't jumped up and raided the fridge every time I felt munchy. I'm fully nourished, I know I'm nourished, I feel nourished, and there isn't the slightest inclination to binge because I always have a little of something I enjoy, every single day.
I already demonstrated that an average high women has all her needs met on 900 calories a day, which of course is a starvation diet.
You said you get "false hunger signals" meaning you feel hungry, i do see this as an inclination to binge. But in all sincerity, i honestly hope what you believe is true for you, i frankly been in your shoes and it wasn't true for me.
I get "false hunger signals" with no inclination to binge. Boredom, stress, getting emotional.... I'm hungry! (no I'm not). I use willpower to not eat anything (let alone stuff my face), get on with something else and forget about food pretty quick.
SOrry wrong word, binging, "over eating" happy? If you're calorie goals are met, and you're hungry, you're "inclined" to over eat.. that's what hunger is, a desire for food.
No, not happy. Perhaps YOU are inclined to overeat because you can't control yourself, personally, I can say no to food and don't need to keep eating.
Lets break it down for you. "FALSE HUNGER SIGNALS"
False - not according with truth or fact; incorrect.
"the test can produce false results"
synonyms: incorrect, untrue, wrong, erroneous, fallacious, flawed, distorted, inaccurate, imprecise
Hunger - a feeling of discomfort or weakness caused by lack of food, coupled with the desire to eat.
"she was faint with hunger"
synonyms: lack of food, hungriness, ravenousness,
Signals - a gesture, action, or sound that is used to convey information or instructions, typically by prearrangement between the parties concerned.
"the firing of the gun was the signal for a chain of beacons to be lit"
synonyms: gesture, sign, wave, gesticulation, cue, indication, warning, motion
False hunger can be stated such as a incorrect instruction from the body that is accompanied by a desire to eat.
Question: why do you have the need to say "NO" ??? Doesn't sound like long term sustainable weight loss.
Pu, what is being referred to in this thread as "false hunger" is more appropriately called hedonic hunger. Look it up.
The bottom line? You don't need to give in to every desire you ever have. AND IT GOES AWAY OVER TIME.
Does it really go away? How you think i got down to my lowest, eating as much as i wanted of whatever? There have been countless times I denied myself of food. I did it for over 2yrs. Yet I started to gain again. This is why people relapse. I was on the verge of a massive relapse. Go look at people who have lost massive weight and gained it back. They couldn't lose the weight unless the deprived themselves of certain foods.
Chrysalid2014 said exactly what I have been trying to convey. I have said it in other topics. Calorie counting is a controlled environment. Once you deviate from calorie counting you will more than likely start gaining again. This is what happened to me. As I also suggested you can look at many others who have lost weight and gained it back. This is what I am trying to help people avoid.
Yes, it goes away. You haven't conquered your demons yet. It's apparent in everything you write.
Go slay some internal dragons son. You have work to do. Sorry to be blunt, but I don't know why it wasn't more evident to me until this point.
Regarding calorie counting being a controlled environment? SO WHAT? Wearing my eyeglasses is a controlled environment.
Calorie counting is a tool to control your portions. Nothing more, nothing less. I plan to do it to maintain, because I suck at eyeballing things. Just like I need my glasses to see, I need help gauging correct portion sizes to maintain an ideal weight for my frame. AND SO WHAT? Is it a problem that a handyman needs a hammer to bang in a nail? If calorie counting isn't for you? Great. No biggie. But don't project and try to make a "thing" out of your issues with it.
For every way of eating, there are people who regain weight. It's an invalid criticism of any type of eating plan to throw "weight regain" at it.
I am not trying to toot my own horn, but as I have mentioned, I have been over weight most of my life, been trying to lose weight since I was roughly 13yrs old, I am 33 now. After countless failed attempts, you think I didn't learn anything in over 20yrs of trial and error? My library is 90% books on diet and weight loss. Many of them are bad books, but they did was give me a learning experience.
I've been there in both of your situations. Well with the emotional eating thing... I am not sure if I can relate, maybe i call it something different yet we're both are talking about the same thing. Have I gained weight on low carb as mamapecahes has? Yes. This was due to the fact I simply lacked understanding of the subject.
As I said before, weight loss is a multifaceted issue. Psychological, emotional, genetics, dietary. I doubt that most people who came to MFP, didn't cut down on processed foods. There is a youtube video kind of long 2hrs i believe. It had the most popular diet authors. Atkins, Sears(The Zone), USDA, Obesity research people, the sugar buster guy, Dean Ornish, Mcdougull. The discussion started with Low carb, and it progressed through the carb guidelines of the authors. So it went from low carb, to high carbs, and everything in between. Of course they all disagreed on dietary choices. But 1 thing they all agreed on was to reduce the intake of refined carbs aka sugars.
Then I trust NONE of them because they ALL should have agreed on CICO as well.
I guess you missed what I said earlier. Proceesed foods are usually higher in calories. I said that insulin and calories go hand in hand. You can look at the problem from an insulin perspective or a calorie perspective. Anytime you eat, insulin goes up. Some foods increase insulin more than others. If you reduce the intake of these goods that cause a large increase of insulin, you're also reducing calories. It's not possible to have elevated levels of insulin and lose weight. Insulin is a storage hormone. Insulin is what stores excess calories as fat.
Low carb and high carb diets(vegan style carbs) have 1 thing in common. A reduction of insulin levels which goes in line with a reduction of calories. So indirectly they all agree about CICO.
IN A DEFICIT... it doesn't matter, Pu.
Stop banging on about insulin. Insulin won't lead to fat storage in a deficit.
That's not true. In a deficit one can assume that fat loss can occur, but that's not even 100% accurate. You can lose muscle in a deficit - not just fat. In fact, you can lose all muscle and no fat in a deficit.
You store energy when insulin levels are raised sufficiently that the muscle glycogen is replenished - the rest is stored as fat between fat cells and organs.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1083868/
That's not... even to the point I was arguing.
The paper you linked isn't even relevant because it's not even addressing the issue of being in a calorie deficit.
Do I need to link you to the abstract on DNL which states that carbs are fine as long as you don't overeat them beyond TEE?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10365981
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mamapeach910 wrote: »Floridanudist wrote: »Think of body's energy needs as a funnel that is wide at the top and narrow at the bottom. All the energy your body needs is what can fit through the narrow, bottom end of the funnel, but you can fill the top of the funnel with energy that your body doesn't need right now, based on what you just ate. If that unneeded energy sits in your body for too long, your body stores it as fat. If you overfill the funnel, your body expends a bunch of energy to store this excess energy as fat. This process makes you hungry because the funnel has been emptied, by the natural energy burn of your body but mostly because the energy required for your body to convert your carbs into energy and then fat. There is a difference in natural and refined carbs. Natural carbs, like fruits and veggies, take some time for your body to break down and use as energy, so the funnel slowly gets filled and slowly drains out the bottom from the energy needs of your body. Refined carbs, like cupcakes and donuts, are broken down almost immediately by your body and the funnel gets full very quickly. Yet the size of the funnel bottom remains the same and as the rest of the funnel gets filled up, your body goes to work storing the excess energy as fat.
As a side note, your body is able to go back to the fat stores and turn them back into energy to fill the funnel to meet your body's energy needs. But your fat stores alone are generally not able to keep up with the needs of your body's energy funnel so you feel hungry when your body reverses this storage process and turns the fat into energy... it is just a trickle of energy available from fat being converted back into energy. That is why you cannot simply stop eating and why weight loss takes so much longer than weight gain.
Utter nonsense, but you just ensured that I'm adding cupcakes to my shopping list for the week. Trader Joe's has some banging gluten-free chocolate buttercream cupcakes.
Well then, by all means, keep eating. I'm just saying what a healthy body is doing with what you are putting inside it.
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Any sources for a healthy person in a deficit only losing muscle and no fat? Or even mostly muscle?tedboosalis7 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »lilaclovebird wrote: »
I feel If I had issues with food, then dragons need to be slayed. I don't have any. This is also is inline with @Nony_Mouse comment. Maybe both of your issues are different than the issues you believe i have.mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »
Eating the same types of foods in the same ratios, i doubt they'd go away. e.g. just focusing on calories and not macros and not changing your dietary choices. From my personal experience, i have done a lot of stuff through my weight loss. But i do recall when i made poor dietary choices e.g. junk food, i was hungrier and I'd weight knuckle my calorie goal.
Artificial hunger signals... are just that. They're not real. Do you think they're going to go away or do you plan to be hungry the rest of your life? This is why a lot of people adopt a lower carb life style, one of the benefits is those artificial hunger signals aren't presents.PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »mandyclay1982 wrote: »Carbs cause insulin levels to rise in your body, which in return make you eat more and gain weight. Carbs are horrible! You wanna see some fast weightloss? Just setyour carbs to 20% and you will be blown away
There is no such thing as a food that makes you eat more. You either eat or you don't.
If you're hungry, are you going to eat more or less of it?
I'm not going to eat anything just because my body is giving artificial hunger signals when it doesn't need anything. That was what got me overweight in the first place.
They do in fact subside but really who only fills their day with junk food?
Someone who is trying to make a point that "carbs" aren't the issue. It boils down to calories only. Which was my thinking a while ago. Yes a calorie deficit is a must for weight loss, but for long term weight loss, there is more to it than that.
Been there done that. You know what happens to people who "ignore" their hunger signals? They gain their weight back. It's not different than doing a starvation type diet. People usually end up binging and gaining the weight back. I did ignore it, i ignored it to lose 193lbs, then the weight started to come back. I knew it was getting out of control, i knew i was binging on processed carbs so i cut them out, wasn't hungry, and was losing effortlessly.PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »
Artificial hunger signals... are just that. They're not real. Do you think they're going to go away or do you plan to be hungry the rest of your life? This is why a lot of people adopt a lower carb life style, one of the benefits is those artificial hunger signals aren't presents.PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »mandyclay1982 wrote: »Carbs cause insulin levels to rise in your body, which in return make you eat more and gain weight. Carbs are horrible! You wanna see some fast weightloss? Just setyour carbs to 20% and you will be blown away
There is no such thing as a food that makes you eat more. You either eat or you don't.
If you're hungry, are you going to eat more or less of it?
I'm not going to eat anything just because my body is giving artificial hunger signals when it doesn't need anything. That was what got me overweight in the first place.
I ignore them, the same way I ignore commercial breaks on TV. It doesn't hurt, it's not a struggle, it's not torture, because I know for a fact I don't need any more food. Give it a try.
It's quite a bit different from a starvation diet. I'm not weak, tired, distracted, or having stomach pain because I haven't jumped up and raided the fridge every time I felt munchy. I'm fully nourished, I know I'm nourished, I feel nourished, and there isn't the slightest inclination to binge because I always have a little of something I enjoy, every single day.
I already demonstrated that an average high women has all her needs met on 900 calories a day, which of course is a starvation diet.
You said you get "false hunger signals" meaning you feel hungry, i do see this as an inclination to binge. But in all sincerity, i honestly hope what you believe is true for you, i frankly been in your shoes and it wasn't true for me.
I get "false hunger signals" with no inclination to binge. Boredom, stress, getting emotional.... I'm hungry! (no I'm not). I use willpower to not eat anything (let alone stuff my face), get on with something else and forget about food pretty quick.
SOrry wrong word, binging, "over eating" happy? If you're calorie goals are met, and you're hungry, you're "inclined" to over eat.. that's what hunger is, a desire for food.
No, not happy. Perhaps YOU are inclined to overeat because you can't control yourself, personally, I can say no to food and don't need to keep eating.
Lets break it down for you. "FALSE HUNGER SIGNALS"
False - not according with truth or fact; incorrect.
"the test can produce false results"
synonyms: incorrect, untrue, wrong, erroneous, fallacious, flawed, distorted, inaccurate, imprecise
Hunger - a feeling of discomfort or weakness caused by lack of food, coupled with the desire to eat.
"she was faint with hunger"
synonyms: lack of food, hungriness, ravenousness,
Signals - a gesture, action, or sound that is used to convey information or instructions, typically by prearrangement between the parties concerned.
"the firing of the gun was the signal for a chain of beacons to be lit"
synonyms: gesture, sign, wave, gesticulation, cue, indication, warning, motion
False hunger can be stated such as a incorrect instruction from the body that is accompanied by a desire to eat.
Question: why do you have the need to say "NO" ??? Doesn't sound like long term sustainable weight loss.
Pu, what is being referred to in this thread as "false hunger" is more appropriately called hedonic hunger. Look it up.
The bottom line? You don't need to give in to every desire you ever have. AND IT GOES AWAY OVER TIME.
Does it really go away? How you think i got down to my lowest, eating as much as i wanted of whatever? There have been countless times I denied myself of food. I did it for over 2yrs. Yet I started to gain again. This is why people relapse. I was on the verge of a massive relapse. Go look at people who have lost massive weight and gained it back. They couldn't lose the weight unless the deprived themselves of certain foods.
Chrysalid2014 said exactly what I have been trying to convey. I have said it in other topics. Calorie counting is a controlled environment. Once you deviate from calorie counting you will more than likely start gaining again. This is what happened to me. As I also suggested you can look at many others who have lost weight and gained it back. This is what I am trying to help people avoid.
Yes, it goes away. You haven't conquered your demons yet. It's apparent in everything you write.
Go slay some internal dragons son. You have work to do. Sorry to be blunt, but I don't know why it wasn't more evident to me until this point.
Regarding calorie counting being a controlled environment? SO WHAT? Wearing my eyeglasses is a controlled environment.
Calorie counting is a tool to control your portions. Nothing more, nothing less. I plan to do it to maintain, because I suck at eyeballing things. Just like I need my glasses to see, I need help gauging correct portion sizes to maintain an ideal weight for my frame. AND SO WHAT? Is it a problem that a handyman needs a hammer to bang in a nail? If calorie counting isn't for you? Great. No biggie. But don't project and try to make a "thing" out of your issues with it.
For every way of eating, there are people who regain weight. It's an invalid criticism of any type of eating plan to throw "weight regain" at it.
I am not trying to toot my own horn, but as I have mentioned, I have been over weight most of my life, been trying to lose weight since I was roughly 13yrs old, I am 33 now. After countless failed attempts, you think I didn't learn anything in over 20yrs of trial and error? My library is 90% books on diet and weight loss. Many of them are bad books, but they did was give me a learning experience.
I've been there in both of your situations. Well with the emotional eating thing... I am not sure if I can relate, maybe i call it something different yet we're both are talking about the same thing. Have I gained weight on low carb as mamapecahes has? Yes. This was due to the fact I simply lacked understanding of the subject.
As I said before, weight loss is a multifaceted issue. Psychological, emotional, genetics, dietary. I doubt that most people who came to MFP, didn't cut down on processed foods. There is a youtube video kind of long 2hrs i believe. It had the most popular diet authors. Atkins, Sears(The Zone), USDA, Obesity research people, the sugar buster guy, Dean Ornish, Mcdougull. The discussion started with Low carb, and it progressed through the carb guidelines of the authors. So it went from low carb, to high carbs, and everything in between. Of course they all disagreed on dietary choices. But 1 thing they all agreed on was to reduce the intake of refined carbs aka sugars.
Then I trust NONE of them because they ALL should have agreed on CICO as well.
I guess you missed what I said earlier. Proceesed foods are usually higher in calories. I said that insulin and calories go hand in hand. You can look at the problem from an insulin perspective or a calorie perspective. Anytime you eat, insulin goes up. Some foods increase insulin more than others. If you reduce the intake of these goods that cause a large increase of insulin, you're also reducing calories. It's not possible to have elevated levels of insulin and lose weight. Insulin is a storage hormone. Insulin is what stores excess calories as fat.
Low carb and high carb diets(vegan style carbs) have 1 thing in common. A reduction of insulin levels which goes in line with a reduction of calories. So indirectly they all agree about CICO.
IN A DEFICIT... it doesn't matter, Pu.
Stop banging on about insulin. Insulin won't lead to fat storage in a deficit.
That's not true. In a deficit one can assume that fat loss can occur, but that's not even 100% accurate. You can lose muscle in a deficit - not just fat. In fact, you can lose all muscle and no fat in a deficit.
You store energy when insulin levels are raised sufficiently that the muscle glycogen is replenished - the rest is stored as fat between fat cells and organs.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1083868/
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Floridanudist wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Floridanudist wrote: »Think of body's energy needs as a funnel that is wide at the top and narrow at the bottom. All the energy your body needs is what can fit through the narrow, bottom end of the funnel, but you can fill the top of the funnel with energy that your body doesn't need right now, based on what you just ate. If that unneeded energy sits in your body for too long, your body stores it as fat. If you overfill the funnel, your body expends a bunch of energy to store this excess energy as fat. This process makes you hungry because the funnel has been emptied, by the natural energy burn of your body but mostly because the energy required for your body to convert your carbs into energy and then fat. There is a difference in natural and refined carbs. Natural carbs, like fruits and veggies, take some time for your body to break down and use as energy, so the funnel slowly gets filled and slowly drains out the bottom from the energy needs of your body. Refined carbs, like cupcakes and donuts, are broken down almost immediately by your body and the funnel gets full very quickly. Yet the size of the funnel bottom remains the same and as the rest of the funnel gets filled up, your body goes to work storing the excess energy as fat.
As a side note, your body is able to go back to the fat stores and turn them back into energy to fill the funnel to meet your body's energy needs. But your fat stores alone are generally not able to keep up with the needs of your body's energy funnel so you feel hungry when your body reverses this storage process and turns the fat into energy... it is just a trickle of energy available from fat being converted back into energy. That is why you cannot simply stop eating and why weight loss takes so much longer than weight gain.
Utter nonsense, but you just ensured that I'm adding cupcakes to my shopping list for the week. Trader Joe's has some banging gluten-free chocolate buttercream cupcakes.
Well then, by all means, keep eating. I'm just saying what a healthy body is doing with what you are putting inside it.
Yeah, no. Most of what you wrote was total bollocks.0 -
NoblankFRplease wrote: »Proteins make you feel satiated better than carbs. If you can control your appetite, why don't you? And then, veggies. Yes, they are carbs, but they are low in calories, rich in water and fiber. Again, important in controlling your appetite.
Sugar, and a particular combination of sugar, salt and fat well known in the processed food industry, make you eat more. Sorry, but losing weight doesn't come in a one liner. You need ALL nutrients. For your own good, and for sake of your waistline, it helps to stay clear of processed food, also known as junk But hey, it's all down to calories, so as long as you don't go over, you can eat what you like better.
I wonder what book you read?
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NoblankFRplease wrote: »Proteins make you feel satiated better than carbs.
For many people, by no means everyone.
How macros affect people varies, so the tiresome generalizations about how carbs make people hungry or protein (or fat) is satisfying really ought to stop.Sugar, and a particular combination of sugar, salt and fat well known in the processed food industry, make you eat more.
Nope. You control how much you eat. If there are various factors--such as what you eat, the combination, eating out of a bag, being too tired and putting yourself in the way of temptation, whatever--that make it easier for YOU to overeat, that's a good thing to know.
Eating some ice cream at night right after dinner NEVER makes me want to overeat. Eating off of a cheese plate with lots of different delicious cheese options always does, even if I ignore the crackers and eat only nuts with the cheese. So many people eat out of a bag of cookies or bowl of tortilla chips on a table or the like and seem surprised and blame the food when they don't naturally stop when full. It's mind boggling.
And again given the wide variety of processed foods (I put some feta in my omelet this morning!--and of course my eggs were in a carton, though from a farm, my mango was carted in from who knows where, and my cottage cheese was processed too, oh, and I had some spinach from a bag), generalizing about them as all being "junk" is bizarre.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Floridanudist wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Floridanudist wrote: »Think of body's energy needs as a funnel that is wide at the top and narrow at the bottom. All the energy your body needs is what can fit through the narrow, bottom end of the funnel, but you can fill the top of the funnel with energy that your body doesn't need right now, based on what you just ate. If that unneeded energy sits in your body for too long, your body stores it as fat. If you overfill the funnel, your body expends a bunch of energy to store this excess energy as fat. This process makes you hungry because the funnel has been emptied, by the natural energy burn of your body but mostly because the energy required for your body to convert your carbs into energy and then fat. There is a difference in natural and refined carbs. Natural carbs, like fruits and veggies, take some time for your body to break down and use as energy, so the funnel slowly gets filled and slowly drains out the bottom from the energy needs of your body. Refined carbs, like cupcakes and donuts, are broken down almost immediately by your body and the funnel gets full very quickly. Yet the size of the funnel bottom remains the same and as the rest of the funnel gets filled up, your body goes to work storing the excess energy as fat.
As a side note, your body is able to go back to the fat stores and turn them back into energy to fill the funnel to meet your body's energy needs. But your fat stores alone are generally not able to keep up with the needs of your body's energy funnel so you feel hungry when your body reverses this storage process and turns the fat into energy... it is just a trickle of energy available from fat being converted back into energy. That is why you cannot simply stop eating and why weight loss takes so much longer than weight gain.
Utter nonsense, but you just ensured that I'm adding cupcakes to my shopping list for the week. Trader Joe's has some banging gluten-free chocolate buttercream cupcakes.
Well then, by all means, keep eating. I'm just saying what a healthy body is doing with what you are putting inside it.
Yeah, no. Most of what you wrote was total bollocks.
So excess carbs are no longer turned into fat by your body? That's awesome news because I've been pretty fit for years by watching my carb intake... wastefully apparently!
Where's my cupcake!?!?! 0 -
Floridanudist wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Floridanudist wrote: »Think of body's energy needs as a funnel that is wide at the top and narrow at the bottom. All the energy your body needs is what can fit through the narrow, bottom end of the funnel, but you can fill the top of the funnel with energy that your body doesn't need right now, based on what you just ate. If that unneeded energy sits in your body for too long, your body stores it as fat. If you overfill the funnel, your body expends a bunch of energy to store this excess energy as fat. This process makes you hungry because the funnel has been emptied, by the natural energy burn of your body but mostly because the energy required for your body to convert your carbs into energy and then fat. There is a difference in natural and refined carbs. Natural carbs, like fruits and veggies, take some time for your body to break down and use as energy, so the funnel slowly gets filled and slowly drains out the bottom from the energy needs of your body. Refined carbs, like cupcakes and donuts, are broken down almost immediately by your body and the funnel gets full very quickly. Yet the size of the funnel bottom remains the same and as the rest of the funnel gets filled up, your body goes to work storing the excess energy as fat.
As a side note, your body is able to go back to the fat stores and turn them back into energy to fill the funnel to meet your body's energy needs. But your fat stores alone are generally not able to keep up with the needs of your body's energy funnel so you feel hungry when your body reverses this storage process and turns the fat into energy... it is just a trickle of energy available from fat being converted back into energy. That is why you cannot simply stop eating and why weight loss takes so much longer than weight gain.
Utter nonsense, but you just ensured that I'm adding cupcakes to my shopping list for the week. Trader Joe's has some banging gluten-free chocolate buttercream cupcakes.
Well then, by all means, keep eating. I'm just saying what a healthy body is doing with what you are putting inside it.
Well, of course I'll keep eating. I have no plans to starve to death.
What you wrote was nonsense. The thing is, eating any type of food is about context and dosage. When I get those cupcakes? I'll split one with my husband. They're pretty calorific, and I have a low calorie allowance. I'll fill my nutritional needs for the day with good food like cottage cheese and lentils and vegetables, get some exercise, and yes... have half cupcake at the end of the day.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »What actually happens is those desires for those foods go away. To eat those foods do nothing for me one way or another. There is no desire,inclination to eat them. They don't bring me the pleasure i used to get. As I said, they mean nothing to me.
You've hit the nail on the head. You don't want them any more.
Let's turn your your argument around then, shall we? According to you two, ignoring psychological hunger does not make the problem go away, but ignoring the foods you want to overeat does?
In what world does that make sense?
Oh, what a good point.
Yeah. That is to say, cutting out the foods you want to overeat makes psychological hunger go away. Complete abstinence; then there's no mental debating about can I/can't I have it. You don't have it, you know you're not having it and there's no angst about it.0 -
Floridanudist wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Floridanudist wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Floridanudist wrote: »Think of body's energy needs as a funnel that is wide at the top and narrow at the bottom. All the energy your body needs is what can fit through the narrow, bottom end of the funnel, but you can fill the top of the funnel with energy that your body doesn't need right now, based on what you just ate. If that unneeded energy sits in your body for too long, your body stores it as fat. If you overfill the funnel, your body expends a bunch of energy to store this excess energy as fat. This process makes you hungry because the funnel has been emptied, by the natural energy burn of your body but mostly because the energy required for your body to convert your carbs into energy and then fat. There is a difference in natural and refined carbs. Natural carbs, like fruits and veggies, take some time for your body to break down and use as energy, so the funnel slowly gets filled and slowly drains out the bottom from the energy needs of your body. Refined carbs, like cupcakes and donuts, are broken down almost immediately by your body and the funnel gets full very quickly. Yet the size of the funnel bottom remains the same and as the rest of the funnel gets filled up, your body goes to work storing the excess energy as fat.
As a side note, your body is able to go back to the fat stores and turn them back into energy to fill the funnel to meet your body's energy needs. But your fat stores alone are generally not able to keep up with the needs of your body's energy funnel so you feel hungry when your body reverses this storage process and turns the fat into energy... it is just a trickle of energy available from fat being converted back into energy. That is why you cannot simply stop eating and why weight loss takes so much longer than weight gain.
Utter nonsense, but you just ensured that I'm adding cupcakes to my shopping list for the week. Trader Joe's has some banging gluten-free chocolate buttercream cupcakes.
Well then, by all means, keep eating. I'm just saying what a healthy body is doing with what you are putting inside it.
Yeah, no. Most of what you wrote was total bollocks.
So excess carbs are no longer turned into fat by your body? That's awesome news because I've been pretty fit for years by watching my carb intake... wastefully apparently!
Where's my cupcake!?!?!
Only if they create a calorie surplus. In a deficit or at energy balance? Nope.
See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/103659810 -
Floridanudist wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Floridanudist wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Floridanudist wrote: »Think of body's energy needs as a funnel that is wide at the top and narrow at the bottom. All the energy your body needs is what can fit through the narrow, bottom end of the funnel, but you can fill the top of the funnel with energy that your body doesn't need right now, based on what you just ate. If that unneeded energy sits in your body for too long, your body stores it as fat. If you overfill the funnel, your body expends a bunch of energy to store this excess energy as fat. This process makes you hungry because the funnel has been emptied, by the natural energy burn of your body but mostly because the energy required for your body to convert your carbs into energy and then fat. There is a difference in natural and refined carbs. Natural carbs, like fruits and veggies, take some time for your body to break down and use as energy, so the funnel slowly gets filled and slowly drains out the bottom from the energy needs of your body. Refined carbs, like cupcakes and donuts, are broken down almost immediately by your body and the funnel gets full very quickly. Yet the size of the funnel bottom remains the same and as the rest of the funnel gets filled up, your body goes to work storing the excess energy as fat.
As a side note, your body is able to go back to the fat stores and turn them back into energy to fill the funnel to meet your body's energy needs. But your fat stores alone are generally not able to keep up with the needs of your body's energy funnel so you feel hungry when your body reverses this storage process and turns the fat into energy... it is just a trickle of energy available from fat being converted back into energy. That is why you cannot simply stop eating and why weight loss takes so much longer than weight gain.
Utter nonsense, but you just ensured that I'm adding cupcakes to my shopping list for the week. Trader Joe's has some banging gluten-free chocolate buttercream cupcakes.
Well then, by all means, keep eating. I'm just saying what a healthy body is doing with what you are putting inside it.
Yeah, no. Most of what you wrote was total bollocks.
So excess carbs are no longer turned into fat by your body?
Um, excess calories are. Your carb percentage doesn't matter to whether or not you have a net gain of fat unless it makes it more likely that YOU will overeat.
Lots of people find that reducing carbs makes it easy for them to keep calories in check.
(Given that carbs are not my primary weakness, I have a strong suspicion that this would not work for me longterm. Reducing carbs as well as other foods of course helps, as does increasing the amount I eat of some carbs, like fruits and veggies.)0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »Floridanudist wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Floridanudist wrote: »Think of body's energy needs as a funnel that is wide at the top and narrow at the bottom. All the energy your body needs is what can fit through the narrow, bottom end of the funnel, but you can fill the top of the funnel with energy that your body doesn't need right now, based on what you just ate. If that unneeded energy sits in your body for too long, your body stores it as fat. If you overfill the funnel, your body expends a bunch of energy to store this excess energy as fat. This process makes you hungry because the funnel has been emptied, by the natural energy burn of your body but mostly because the energy required for your body to convert your carbs into energy and then fat. There is a difference in natural and refined carbs. Natural carbs, like fruits and veggies, take some time for your body to break down and use as energy, so the funnel slowly gets filled and slowly drains out the bottom from the energy needs of your body. Refined carbs, like cupcakes and donuts, are broken down almost immediately by your body and the funnel gets full very quickly. Yet the size of the funnel bottom remains the same and as the rest of the funnel gets filled up, your body goes to work storing the excess energy as fat.
As a side note, your body is able to go back to the fat stores and turn them back into energy to fill the funnel to meet your body's energy needs. But your fat stores alone are generally not able to keep up with the needs of your body's energy funnel so you feel hungry when your body reverses this storage process and turns the fat into energy... it is just a trickle of energy available from fat being converted back into energy. That is why you cannot simply stop eating and why weight loss takes so much longer than weight gain.
Utter nonsense, but you just ensured that I'm adding cupcakes to my shopping list for the week. Trader Joe's has some banging gluten-free chocolate buttercream cupcakes.
Well then, by all means, keep eating. I'm just saying what a healthy body is doing with what you are putting inside it.
Well, of course I'll keep eating. I have no plans to starve to death.
What you wrote was nonsense. The thing is, eating any type of food is about context and dosage. When I get those cupcakes? I'll split one with my husband. They're pretty calorific, and I have a low calorie allowance. I'll fill my nutritional needs for the day with good food like cottage cheese and lentils and vegetables, get some exercise, and yes... have half cupcake at the end of the day.
What you said is exactly how you should eat any refined carb. In small doses, so you don't fill the funnel. If you eat a donut all at once, a quarter of it will be used for current energy needs, maybe a quarter will be used to store the excess energy from the other half of the donut, which will be stored as fat (some people are really good at storing fat so nearly 3/4's of the donut may actually be stored as fat). The best way to eat a donut, depending on your body's current energy needs, would be for example to eat one quarter of the donut every 30 minutes. This slowly fills your energy funnel and more closely mimics the energy timing of a fruit or vegetable (a little bit of energy available over a longer duration).0 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »It kind of amazes me that there are people unwilling to address the behavioural issues that lead them to overeat. I'm not saying it's easy, sometimes we're hiding some really nasty, painful stuff with food, but it's kind of important...
I agree 100%. Therapy was the one thing that started to make everything come together. I don't think I would've turned my life around without it.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Floridanudist wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Floridanudist wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Floridanudist wrote: »Think of body's energy needs as a funnel that is wide at the top and narrow at the bottom. All the energy your body needs is what can fit through the narrow, bottom end of the funnel, but you can fill the top of the funnel with energy that your body doesn't need right now, based on what you just ate. If that unneeded energy sits in your body for too long, your body stores it as fat. If you overfill the funnel, your body expends a bunch of energy to store this excess energy as fat. This process makes you hungry because the funnel has been emptied, by the natural energy burn of your body but mostly because the energy required for your body to convert your carbs into energy and then fat. There is a difference in natural and refined carbs. Natural carbs, like fruits and veggies, take some time for your body to break down and use as energy, so the funnel slowly gets filled and slowly drains out the bottom from the energy needs of your body. Refined carbs, like cupcakes and donuts, are broken down almost immediately by your body and the funnel gets full very quickly. Yet the size of the funnel bottom remains the same and as the rest of the funnel gets filled up, your body goes to work storing the excess energy as fat.
As a side note, your body is able to go back to the fat stores and turn them back into energy to fill the funnel to meet your body's energy needs. But your fat stores alone are generally not able to keep up with the needs of your body's energy funnel so you feel hungry when your body reverses this storage process and turns the fat into energy... it is just a trickle of energy available from fat being converted back into energy. That is why you cannot simply stop eating and why weight loss takes so much longer than weight gain.
Utter nonsense, but you just ensured that I'm adding cupcakes to my shopping list for the week. Trader Joe's has some banging gluten-free chocolate buttercream cupcakes.
Well then, by all means, keep eating. I'm just saying what a healthy body is doing with what you are putting inside it.
Yeah, no. Most of what you wrote was total bollocks.
So excess carbs are no longer turned into fat by your body?
Um, excess calories are. Your carb percentage doesn't matter to whether or not you have a net gain of fat unless it makes it more likely that YOU will overeat.
Lots of people find that reducing carbs makes it easy for them to keep calories in check.
(Given that carbs are not my primary weakness, I have a strong suspicion that this would not work for me longterm. Reducing carbs as well as other foods of course helps, as does increasing the amount I eat of some carbs, like fruits and veggies.)
Yes, thank you. I was being sarcastic because a previous poster suggested that my saying that excess carbs are stored as fat was total 'bollocks'.0 -
That's true. Carbs are not essential. What's your point?0 -
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »What actually happens is those desires for those foods go away. To eat those foods do nothing for me one way or another. There is no desire,inclination to eat them. They don't bring me the pleasure i used to get. As I said, they mean nothing to me.
You've hit the nail on the head. You don't want them any more.
Let's turn your your argument around then, shall we? According to you two, ignoring psychological hunger does not make the problem go away, but ignoring the foods you want to overeat does?
In what world does that make sense?
Oh, what a good point.
Yeah. Complete abstinence; then there's no mental debating about can I/can't I have it. You don't have it, you know you're not having it and there's no angst about it.
That's great. I'm glad you've found something that works for you. So the brownie the person is eating at the next table will have to be ignored? The pizza you smell walking by the pizza shop that gets your mouth watering?
I've actually been there where those things no longer tempted me. Of all things, oatmeal was my carb downfall.
It's the same with hedonic hunger. The desire for pleasure-sating passes.
You learn to realize it was JUST a desire for crunch, or to have the experience of a certain taste or combination of textures. You can easily talk yourself out of that. It's not an actual hunger.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Floridanudist wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Floridanudist wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Floridanudist wrote: »Think of body's energy needs as a funnel that is wide at the top and narrow at the bottom. All the energy your body needs is what can fit through the narrow, bottom end of the funnel, but you can fill the top of the funnel with energy that your body doesn't need right now, based on what you just ate. If that unneeded energy sits in your body for too long, your body stores it as fat. If you overfill the funnel, your body expends a bunch of energy to store this excess energy as fat. This process makes you hungry because the funnel has been emptied, by the natural energy burn of your body but mostly because the energy required for your body to convert your carbs into energy and then fat. There is a difference in natural and refined carbs. Natural carbs, like fruits and veggies, take some time for your body to break down and use as energy, so the funnel slowly gets filled and slowly drains out the bottom from the energy needs of your body. Refined carbs, like cupcakes and donuts, are broken down almost immediately by your body and the funnel gets full very quickly. Yet the size of the funnel bottom remains the same and as the rest of the funnel gets filled up, your body goes to work storing the excess energy as fat.
As a side note, your body is able to go back to the fat stores and turn them back into energy to fill the funnel to meet your body's energy needs. But your fat stores alone are generally not able to keep up with the needs of your body's energy funnel so you feel hungry when your body reverses this storage process and turns the fat into energy... it is just a trickle of energy available from fat being converted back into energy. That is why you cannot simply stop eating and why weight loss takes so much longer than weight gain.
Utter nonsense, but you just ensured that I'm adding cupcakes to my shopping list for the week. Trader Joe's has some banging gluten-free chocolate buttercream cupcakes.
Well then, by all means, keep eating. I'm just saying what a healthy body is doing with what you are putting inside it.
Yeah, no. Most of what you wrote was total bollocks.
So excess carbs are no longer turned into fat by your body?
Um, excess calories are. Your carb percentage doesn't matter to whether or not you have a net gain of fat unless it makes it more likely that YOU will overeat.
Lots of people find that reducing carbs makes it easy for them to keep calories in check.
(Given that carbs are not my primary weakness, I have a strong suspicion that this would not work for me longterm. Reducing carbs as well as other foods of course helps, as does increasing the amount I eat of some carbs, like fruits and veggies.)
You'd be surprised how womanly hormonal things can change your downfalls.
I used to be so into cheese. Sooooooo into it.
I've majorly lost my taste for eating it by itself since I hit menopause. It's so weird! I've lost my taste for chocolate too. I still like it, but it's not near as... compelling... as it used to be.
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Floridanudist wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Floridanudist wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Floridanudist wrote: »Think of body's energy needs as a funnel that is wide at the top and narrow at the bottom. All the energy your body needs is what can fit through the narrow, bottom end of the funnel, but you can fill the top of the funnel with energy that your body doesn't need right now, based on what you just ate. If that unneeded energy sits in your body for too long, your body stores it as fat. If you overfill the funnel, your body expends a bunch of energy to store this excess energy as fat. This process makes you hungry because the funnel has been emptied, by the natural energy burn of your body but mostly because the energy required for your body to convert your carbs into energy and then fat. There is a difference in natural and refined carbs. Natural carbs, like fruits and veggies, take some time for your body to break down and use as energy, so the funnel slowly gets filled and slowly drains out the bottom from the energy needs of your body. Refined carbs, like cupcakes and donuts, are broken down almost immediately by your body and the funnel gets full very quickly. Yet the size of the funnel bottom remains the same and as the rest of the funnel gets filled up, your body goes to work storing the excess energy as fat.
As a side note, your body is able to go back to the fat stores and turn them back into energy to fill the funnel to meet your body's energy needs. But your fat stores alone are generally not able to keep up with the needs of your body's energy funnel so you feel hungry when your body reverses this storage process and turns the fat into energy... it is just a trickle of energy available from fat being converted back into energy. That is why you cannot simply stop eating and why weight loss takes so much longer than weight gain.
Utter nonsense, but you just ensured that I'm adding cupcakes to my shopping list for the week. Trader Joe's has some banging gluten-free chocolate buttercream cupcakes.
Well then, by all means, keep eating. I'm just saying what a healthy body is doing with what you are putting inside it.
Well, of course I'll keep eating. I have no plans to starve to death.
What you wrote was nonsense. The thing is, eating any type of food is about context and dosage. When I get those cupcakes? I'll split one with my husband. They're pretty calorific, and I have a low calorie allowance. I'll fill my nutritional needs for the day with good food like cottage cheese and lentils and vegetables, get some exercise, and yes... have half cupcake at the end of the day.
What you said is exactly how you should eat any refined carb. In small doses, so you don't fill the funnel. If you eat a donut all at once, a quarter of it will be used for current energy needs, maybe a quarter will be used to store the excess energy from the other half of the donut, which will be stored as fat (some people are really good at storing fat so nearly 3/4's of the donut may actually be stored as fat). The best way to eat a donut, depending on your body's current energy needs, would be for example to eat one quarter of the donut every 30 minutes. This slowly fills your energy funnel and more closely mimics the energy timing of a fruit or vegetable (a little bit of energy available over a longer duration).
This is the silliest thing I've ever heard. Excess calories get stored as fat. Eating something slower is more pleasureable, but the timing of eating anything, or how you eat it, is much ado about nothing.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »
That's great. I'm glad you've found something that works for you. So the brownie the person is eating at the next table will have to be ignored? The pizza you smell walking by the pizza shop that gets your mouth watering?
I've actually been there where those things no longer tempted me. Of all things, oatmeal was my carb downfall.
It's the same with hedonic hunger. The desire for pleasure-sating passes.
You learn to realize it was JUST a desire for crunch, or to have the experience of a certain taste or combination of textures. You can easily talk yourself out of that. It's not an actual hunger.
In that case I don't understand the half cupcake deal. If you have no desire for the pleasure it gives you why would you bother eating it at all?
About your other question, I'm trying to learn that I can enjoy the aroma of things without eating them. I like the smell of fresh cut grass, pine needles and decaying leaves too but I don't have any desire to put them in my mouth...0 -
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »
That's true. Carbs are not essential. What's your point?
Homeostasis. Everytime you take away or add too much, your body has to adjust to keep homeostasis. This is basic college level A&P stuff. To make a blanket a statement of "carbs are not essential" is dangerous.
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Floridanudist wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Floridanudist wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Floridanudist wrote: »Think of body's energy needs as a funnel that is wide at the top and narrow at the bottom. All the energy your body needs is what can fit through the narrow, bottom end of the funnel, but you can fill the top of the funnel with energy that your body doesn't need right now, based on what you just ate. If that unneeded energy sits in your body for too long, your body stores it as fat. If you overfill the funnel, your body expends a bunch of energy to store this excess energy as fat. This process makes you hungry because the funnel has been emptied, by the natural energy burn of your body but mostly because the energy required for your body to convert your carbs into energy and then fat. There is a difference in natural and refined carbs. Natural carbs, like fruits and veggies, take some time for your body to break down and use as energy, so the funnel slowly gets filled and slowly drains out the bottom from the energy needs of your body. Refined carbs, like cupcakes and donuts, are broken down almost immediately by your body and the funnel gets full very quickly. Yet the size of the funnel bottom remains the same and as the rest of the funnel gets filled up, your body goes to work storing the excess energy as fat.
As a side note, your body is able to go back to the fat stores and turn them back into energy to fill the funnel to meet your body's energy needs. But your fat stores alone are generally not able to keep up with the needs of your body's energy funnel so you feel hungry when your body reverses this storage process and turns the fat into energy... it is just a trickle of energy available from fat being converted back into energy. That is why you cannot simply stop eating and why weight loss takes so much longer than weight gain.
Utter nonsense, but you just ensured that I'm adding cupcakes to my shopping list for the week. Trader Joe's has some banging gluten-free chocolate buttercream cupcakes.
Well then, by all means, keep eating. I'm just saying what a healthy body is doing with what you are putting inside it.
Well, of course I'll keep eating. I have no plans to starve to death.
What you wrote was nonsense. The thing is, eating any type of food is about context and dosage. When I get those cupcakes? I'll split one with my husband. They're pretty calorific, and I have a low calorie allowance. I'll fill my nutritional needs for the day with good food like cottage cheese and lentils and vegetables, get some exercise, and yes... have half cupcake at the end of the day.
What you said is exactly how you should eat any refined carb. In small doses, so you don't fill the funnel. If you eat a donut all at once, a quarter of it will be used for current energy needs, maybe a quarter will be used to store the excess energy from the other half of the donut, which will be stored as fat (some people are really good at storing fat so nearly 3/4's of the donut may actually be stored as fat). The best way to eat a donut, depending on your body's current energy needs, would be for example to eat one quarter of the donut every 30 minutes. This slowly fills your energy funnel and more closely mimics the energy timing of a fruit or vegetable (a little bit of energy available over a longer duration).
Still nonsense. You're ignoring energy balance. How the calories from that donut get stored depend entirely on its context in the person's overall diet and whether they are in an energy deficit/balance/surplus.
As for the eating 1/4 of it every 30 minutes? Yeah, no.
From the abstract I postedSimilarly, addition of CHO to a mixed diet does not increase hepatic DNL to quantitatively important levels, as long as CHO energy intake remains less than total energy expenditure (TEE). Instead, dietary CHO replaces fat in the whole-body fuel mixture, even in the post-absorptive state. Body fat is thereby accrued, but the pathway of DNL is not traversed; instead, a coordinated set of metabolic adaptations, including resistance of hepatic glucose production to suppression by insulin, occurs that allows CHO oxidation to increase and match CHO intake. Only when CHO energy intake exceeds TEE does DNL in liver or adipose tissue contribute significantly to the whole-body energy economy. It is concluded that DNL is not the pathway of first resort for added dietary CHO, in humans.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »What actually happens is those desires for those foods go away. To eat those foods do nothing for me one way or another. There is no desire,inclination to eat them. They don't bring me the pleasure i used to get. As I said, they mean nothing to me.
You've hit the nail on the head. You don't want them any more.
Let's turn your your argument around then, shall we? According to you two, ignoring psychological hunger does not make the problem go away, but ignoring the foods you want to overeat does?
In what world does that make sense?
Oh, what a good point.
Yeah. Complete abstinence; then there's no mental debating about can I/can't I have it. You don't have it, you know you're not having it and there's no angst about it.
That's great. I'm glad you've found something that works for you.
Well, so far.
I think the angsting in the absence of abstinence is a pretty bad sign.
Time will tell, of course, for all of us.
For me, even over the past year things go in and out. At first I was eating 1250 (or less) and not being tempted at all, even in periods of stress. Now I find that I'm tempted when stressed again and having to work through some issues that the excitement of weight loss and the honeymoon period that many experience when first focusing on their diet in a positive way has worn off. (I'm sure I can.)
I went back for a time to the more restrictive habits I had at the beginning (to get to 1250, although this time I ate more other stuff since I didn't want to be that low) and found that the reduction in carbs was actually counterproductive as I was feeling a lot more deprived at the same calories. I did better during Lent when I cut meat other than fish and ate proportionally more carbs, but that could be because I gave myself a religious rationale, who knows.
Similarly, I maintained weight at 120-25 for 5 years without much in the way of temptation and then I did not.
Food issues are so weird and complicated and psychological.0
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