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Something I learned to avoid carbs
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Someone who is trying to make a point that "carbs" aren't the issue. It boils down to calories only. Which was my thinking a while ago. Yes a calorie deficit is a must for weight loss, but for long term weight loss, there is more to it than that.
Been there done that. You know what happens to people who "ignore" their hunger signals? They gain their weight back. It's not different than doing a starvation type diet. People usually end up binging and gaining the weight back. I did ignore it, i ignored it to lose 193lbs, then the weight started to come back. I knew it was getting out of control, i knew i was binging on processed carbs so i cut them out, wasn't hungry, and was losing effortlessly.
You know fiber does contribute to satiety. As you should know carb choice should be goal dependent and carbs with fiber usually are less calorie dense.
One more notch in the Tree of "saying you don't have to cut out carbs = you only eat junk food all day".0 -
Reduce, not eliminate.0
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Yes it's a life style change, but no need to monitor what I don't eat. If i don't eat carbs, i don't need to monitor them. If I choose to focus on calories then... I have to monitor everything.
But you are monitoring them. You are actively watching them, avoiding them, and making sure they get no where near your mouth!
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I guess you missed what I said earlier. Proceesed foods are usually higher in calories. I said that insulin and calories go hand in hand. You can look at the problem from an insulin perspective or a calorie perspective. Anytime you eat, insulin goes up. Some foods increase insulin more than others. If you reduce the intake of these goods that cause a large increase of insulin, you're also reducing calories. It's not possible to have elevated levels of insulin and lose weight. Insulin is a storage hormone. Insulin is what stores excess calories as fat.
Low carb and high carb diets(vegan style carbs) have 1 thing in common. A reduction of insulin levels which goes in line with a reduction of calories. So indirectly they all agree about CICO.
They should have agreed on it DIRECTLY because people are stupid and will not follow what is not DIRECTLY told to them.0 -
I am new OP so forgive me if this is not the place to say it. But I don't eat out of a box or with high fructose corn syrup or processed carbs. Just voting for your idea to limit (certain) carbs. Just isn't natural enough for me. The food giants are probably aware of the health problems they are facilitating. If you are looking for a cause for the obesity epidemic, then follow the money. I say that even if you don't trust scientists.0
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Chrysalid2014 wrote: »
The symptom goes away, but does the problem (the desire to overeat) really go away? If it does, why do so many people rely on cheat days (i.e. controlled overeating) to keep them "sane" as they put it? Why do such people overeat on holidays or other occasions where they feel it's justified?
I don't think the problem has gone away in these cases, it's just lurking in the background and if it ever gets out of the cage again, look out.
The normal lean people you refer to often have days when they eat more and days when they eat less (for example, it used to confuse me that they would often eat more at a restaurant when we went out together and yet I was fat and they weren't--that is no longer the case). Similarly, they eat lots on Thanksgiving, etc., in many cases. I know I was far more restrictive around Christmas this year than most I know, because I was dieting and they weren't.
That you think that occasional overindulgence is some huge problem that normal people don't have and which must be avoided is kind of weird.
Also, the older I get, the less I think that people in general can really eat what they want. Fat people tell themselves that most others are this way, because it explains why they aren't fat (and feeds into the idea that it's unfair or something extreme is needed), but it's not true for most (obviously there are exceptions).
Now, when I was in my 20s it seemed to be true for more people--it was even true for me for a while. But in my 40s and talking to people even older, even the ones who have always been a proper weight have strategies to avoid overeating--they watch portion size, don't eat dessert with every meal or even every day, make sure they fit in exercise, etc.
When I was in my 30s I easily maintained my weight using such strategies, so I don't think that makes them so different from me. The problem is that for some reason I come up with excuses to NOT do these things, to overeat, because I have tended to use food as a coping mechanism. That's a psychological thing, nothing to do with genuine hunger, and as others have said the trick for dealing is knowing that it goes away and that wanting to eat doesn't mean you must (especially since there will be an opportunity soon enough).0 -
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »
You've hit the nail on the head. You don't want them any more.
Let's turn your your argument around then, shall we? According to you two, ignoring psychological hunger does not make the problem go away, but ignoring the foods you want to overeat does?
In what world does that make sense?0 -
Thers some really bonkers thinking on this thread. Mostly newish poster who have yet to lose much. No problem with a low carb diet if thats your lifestyle change, but some of the thinking about carbs is mindbogling.
+1
I think low carb can be a good strategy for some but couldn't agree more.0 -
Also, plain low fat Fage greek yogurt (which I like with fruit) is obviously processed carbs. I eat a lot of it, and somehow it doesn't seem to be extra high in calories for how satiating it is, etc. Could anyone please tell me why I should cut this out? (Baby carrots are also processed carbs, of course, and I plan to make a stew tonight using some canned tomatoes--tomatoes aren't yet in season--so more processed carbs.)
Heck, I might even have steel cut oats for breakfast.0 -
I think you are missing something there - the worry is over highly refined processed carbs.0
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Messes you up really bad. Take a look at populations that must eat that way because of the high cost of healthier carbs. Severe crisis levels. ps not a scientist. Don't know the chemistry, only the macro results.0
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Yep me too. The bottom line is you figure out what works for you through trial and error. Figure out if you can portion control eating certain food or not, whether they give you a feeling of fullness or not, etc. Sometimes our eating control is conditioned and we have to train it, just like exercise. So do what works. Your method and the OPs worked for me. Now that I'm more trained in knowing what I need to eat to keep losing weight....I can add some of the other back in, in moderation knowing that I need more substantial food to make up most of the day! Good luck OP!I beg to differ. Cutting grain-based carbs is what makes a difference for me. I don't completely eliminate them, but I have as few as possible, getting my carbs almost exclusively from fruits and vegetables. I do the same as LisaLydens, except I usually eat my salad first, then my proteins.
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lilaclovebird wrote: »@Chrysalid2014 Count calories and weigh/measure your food for the rest of your life because it is a LIFESTYLE CHANGE.
@Pu_239 Monitor your carb intake the rest of your life? Yes, if that is your LIFESTYLE CHANGE.
Once you deviate from counting calories/monitoring carbs you will likely start gaining again. Then it wasn't a LIFESTYLE CHANGE. You don't want to be fat anymore it takes a LIFESTYLE CHANGE to get you to lose weight and stay that way for the rest of your LIFE. It takes control, discipline, and a whole lot of effort. Get used to it or stay fat.
/end rant
Exactly. I fail to see how either option is not a controlled environment. And, at the end of the day, it's all about choosing an option that works for you.
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Do you know what "psychological is?" It hit me on the head when i was thinking "how do we know if it's psychological of physical?" I would assume the reply would be something along the lines that once you have your caloric needs met, if you are still hungry then it's psychological. This just drives my point farther home.
Psychological hunger is the response to elevated insulin levels. As already pointed out above a few times, elevated insulin levels cause people to get hungry and over eat. What happens when you're at your energy requirement and eat more? It gets stored as fat. So if you have elevated insulin levels when your caloric goal is met, you will be storing fat. SO if insulin is reduced, psychological hunger is also reduced. So yes, it does make the problem go away. As I already said above, i have no desire to eat those types of food. I'll leave tonight discussion with this.
"What if we're not getting fatter because we're eating more, but we're eating more because we're getting fatter" everything i said can be summed up in this previous quote.
No, you'll be storing fat if you overeat, not if you have elevated insulin levels. And you got told multiple times already, not only in this thread if I remember correctly, that people overeat for a myriad of reasons other than insulin.0 -
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »
Calorie counting or any kind of measured portion control is still just a method of controlling the desire to overeat, though. It hasn't removed the problem.
If someone doesn't have the desire to overeat there'd be no need for it. If they served themselves a too-large portion they would automatically stop eating when they'd physically had enough and leave the rest on the plate.
That's why a lot of people who do low carb say they don't count calories. Of course CICO still matters but that way of eating physically removes the desire to overeat, for them.
You could not be more wrong there. I count calories and weigh my food for 2 reasons.
I don't have the desire to over eat any more. I just have a bad eyeball at what might be 300 grams of yogurt vs. 227. They look pretty similar TO ME. So I weigh my food.
I also like to count my calories to see my macro split because I really have no clue and I like to monitor it and track my energy levels.
FTR, low-carbing did not remove the desire to overeat for me. I would have benefited from the knowledge that I should have been counting my calories as well as my carbs.
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Yes it's a life style change, but no need to monitor what I don't eat. If i don't eat carbs, i don't need to monitor them. If I choose to focus on calories then... I have to monitor everything.
Moving goalposts. First you go on about how it's a controlled environment. Now it's about a need to monitor.
What's the issue you want to rail against? Monitoring or controlled environment?
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mamapeach910 wrote: »
You could not be more wrong there. I count calories and weigh my food for 2 reasons.
I don't have the desire to over eat any more. I just have a bad eyeball at what might be 300 grams of yogurt vs. 227. They look pretty similar TO ME. So I weigh my food.
I also like to count my calories to see my macro split because I really have no clue and I like to monitor it and track my energy levels.
FTR, low-carbing did not remove the desire to overeat for me. I would have benefited from the knowledge that I should have been counting my calories as well as my carbs.
They just don't get that. Or they're purposely ignoring it.0 -
These threads make my brain hurt.
Carry on...0 -
I feel If I had issues with food, then dragons need to be slayed. I don't have any. This is also is inline with @Nony_Mouse comment. Maybe both of your issues are different than the issues you believe i have.
I am not trying to toot my own horn, but as I have mentioned, I have been over weight most of my life, been trying to lose weight since I was roughly 13yrs old, I am 33 now. After countless failed attempts, you think I didn't learn anything in over 20yrs of trial and error? My library is 90% books on diet and weight loss. Many of them are bad books, but they did was give me a learning experience.
I've been there in both of your situations. Well with the emotional eating thing... I am not sure if I can relate, maybe i call it something different yet we're both are talking about the same thing. Have I gained weight on low carb as mamapecahes has? Yes. This was due to the fact I simply lacked understanding of the subject.
As I said before, weight loss is a multifaceted issue. Psychological, emotional, genetics, dietary. I doubt that most people who came to MFP, didn't cut down on processed foods. There is a youtube video kind of long 2hrs i believe. It had the most popular diet authors. Atkins, Sears(The Zone), USDA, Obesity research people, the sugar buster guy, Dean Ornish, Mcdougull. The discussion started with Low carb, and it progressed through the carb guidelines of the authors. So it went from low carb, to high carbs, and everything in between. Of course they all disagreed on dietary choices. But 1 thing they all agreed on was to reduce the intake of refined carbs aka sugars.
You have to reduce the intake of everything.
I notice you didn't say eliminate.
And I'm sorry.
I've been overweight since I was 13 too. Well, except for the time my celiac disease manifested and was in a malabsorptive phase and dropped weight alarmingly fast. It came roaring back as soon as I was diagnosed. Anyway...I'll be 53 in August.... if we're going to compare time frames and all that.
That's 40 years.
You are still searching everywhere for answers except for the one place you'll find them.
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lilaclovebird wrote: »
Then I trust NONE of them because they ALL should have agreed on CICO as well.
I like you.
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I guess you missed what I said earlier. Proceesed foods are usually higher in calories. I said that insulin and calories go hand in hand. You can look at the problem from an insulin perspective or a calorie perspective. Anytime you eat, insulin goes up. Some foods increase insulin more than others. If you reduce the intake of these goods that cause a large increase of insulin, you're also reducing calories. It's not possible to have elevated levels of insulin and lose weight. Insulin is a storage hormone. Insulin is what stores excess calories as fat.
Low carb and high carb diets(vegan style carbs) have 1 thing in common. A reduction of insulin levels which goes in line with a reduction of calories. So indirectly they all agree about CICO.
IN A DEFICIT... it doesn't matter, Pu.
Stop banging on about insulin. Insulin won't lead to fat storage in a deficit.
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stevencloser wrote: »
Let's turn your your argument around then, shall we? According to you two, ignoring psychological hunger does not make the problem go away, but ignoring the foods you want to overeat does?
In what world does that make sense?
Oh, what a good point.
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livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
No, not happy. Perhaps YOU are inclined to overeat because you can't control yourself, personally, I can say no to food and don't need to keep eating.
Okay. So that means the tip provided by the OP won't apply to people in this category that have it down pat. What am I missing? I do love to overeat all the goodies so I find the occasional tip useful
What's interesting is that most people would still agree to the "80% nutrient dense 20% goodies" rule of thumb. What's so wrong with a post that explains "a" way to do this? And surely by now we've all heard of low carb - if it's not your cup of tea then you'd probably understandably not find a post like this to be terribly relevant?
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Do you know what "psychological is?" It hit me on the head when i was thinking "how do we know if it's psychological of physical?" I would assume the reply would be something along the lines that once you have your caloric needs met, if you are still hungry then it's psychological. This just drives my point farther home.
Psychological hunger is the response to elevated insulin levels. As already pointed out above a few times, elevated insulin levels cause people to get hungry and over eat. What happens when you're at your energy requirement and eat more? It gets stored as fat. So if you have elevated insulin levels when your caloric goal is met, you will be storing fat. SO if insulin is reduced, psychological hunger is also reduced. So yes, it does make the problem go away. As I already said above, i have no desire to eat those types of food. I'll leave tonight discussion with this.
"What if we're not getting fatter because we're eating more, but we're eating more because we're getting fatter" everything i said can be summed up in this previous quote.
No psychological hunger is... I could go for something crunchy right now... hmmmmm.... ah.... sunflower seeds... crunch, crunch, crunch... the whole bag is gone. BTDT.
Hmmmm... egg salad .... with smoked paprika.... so creamy....
You crave texture.... It's the experience your other senses are craving. Taste, texture.
It's a pleasure thing, not an insulin thing. That's why it's called hedonic hunger.
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Think of body's energy needs as a funnel that is wide at the top and narrow at the bottom. All the energy your body needs is what can fit through the narrow, bottom end of the funnel, but you can fill the top of the funnel with energy that your body doesn't need right now, based on what you just ate. If that unneeded energy sits in your body for too long, your body stores it as fat. If you overfill the funnel, your body expends a bunch of energy to store this excess energy as fat. This process makes you hungry because the funnel has been emptied, by the natural energy burn of your body but mostly because the energy required for your body to convert your carbs into energy and then fat. There is a difference in natural and refined carbs. Natural carbs, like fruits and veggies, take some time for your body to break down and use as energy, so the funnel slowly gets filled and slowly drains out the bottom from the energy needs of your body. Refined carbs, like cupcakes and donuts, are broken down almost immediately by your body and the funnel gets full very quickly. Yet the size of the funnel bottom remains the same and as the rest of the funnel gets filled up, your body goes to work storing the excess energy as fat.
As a side note, your body is able to go back to the fat stores and turn them back into energy to fill the funnel to meet your body's energy needs. But your fat stores alone are generally not able to keep up with the needs of your body's energy funnel so you feel hungry when your body reverses this storage process and turns the fat into energy... it is just a trickle of energy available from fat being converted back into energy. That is why you cannot simply stop eating and why weight loss takes so much longer than weight gain.0 -
I think you are missing something there - the worry is over highly refined processed carbs.
I just want people to say what they mean and stop conflating foods that are unlike.
As for "boxed" foods, I don't care for Lean Cuisines, but they aren't high calorie. People get lazy in wanting a scapegoat. Understand your overall diet, don't pretend like "processed" foods are the issue. Some "processed" foods are low nutrient and high calorie, some aren't, some home cooked foods are lower nutrient and high calorie (and many probably have decent nutrients and high calories). The reverse is also true.0 -
Floridanudist wrote: »Think of body's energy needs as a funnel that is wide at the top and narrow at the bottom. All the energy your body needs is what can fit through the narrow, bottom end of the funnel, but you can fill the top of the funnel with energy that your body doesn't need right now, based on what you just ate. If that unneeded energy sits in your body for too long, your body stores it as fat. If you overfill the funnel, your body expends a bunch of energy to store this excess energy as fat. This process makes you hungry because the funnel has been emptied, by the natural energy burn of your body but mostly because the energy required for your body to convert your carbs into energy and then fat. There is a difference in natural and refined carbs. Natural carbs, like fruits and veggies, take some time for your body to break down and use as energy, so the funnel slowly gets filled and slowly drains out the bottom from the energy needs of your body. Refined carbs, like cupcakes and donuts, are broken down almost immediately by your body and the funnel gets full very quickly. Yet the size of the funnel bottom remains the same and as the rest of the funnel gets filled up, your body goes to work storing the excess energy as fat.
As a side note, your body is able to go back to the fat stores and turn them back into energy to fill the funnel to meet your body's energy needs. But your fat stores alone are generally not able to keep up with the needs of your body's energy funnel so you feel hungry when your body reverses this storage process and turns the fat into energy... it is just a trickle of energy available from fat being converted back into energy. That is why you cannot simply stop eating and why weight loss takes so much longer than weight gain.
Utter nonsense, but you just ensured that I'm adding cupcakes to my shopping list for the week. Trader Joe's has some banging gluten-free chocolate buttercream cupcakes.
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