Thoughts on my eating philosophy?
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I cut the moldy part off my cream cheese today and used 2oz of non-moldy cream cheese in my keto pancakes recipe. I'm going to die from low-carb *and* moldy food! ;-)Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »
Was she by chance Cajun or Creole?
That was my dad's philosophy growing up. We were nit allowed to throw out any spoiled or moldy food. It was just made into something else. We ate a lot of gumbos and jambalayas, with lots of spices.
Didn't learn about throwing out bad food until a few years into my marriage...That was a very interesting talk.
No, but her parents were Italian immigrant working people, and she grew up during the Depression/WW2.
Ahhh. I see.
Do you throw things out now or is it still a struggle to do so?
I'm finding the older I get, the harder it is to throw things away. This applies to food that might be slightly dodgy, clothing, rubber bands... (Who said we all turn into our mothers eventually!)
I haven't started sticking the old bits of soap together to make a 'new' bar yet, but I'm sure that'll come.
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I love how certain people seem to think that just because eating calorie dense foods makes them unable to control their intake, no one else is allowed to eat snacks in moderation. Jfc.0
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Just read through the thread and I'd like to give props to the OP. She asked for feedback, got it, and a generally adult-level conversation was had.
One slightly tangential perspective: I make beer as a hobby. When I started I used canned or dry malt extract and packaged hops.
As I got better at it I started to get deeper into the process. I became an all-grain brewer and mashed the barley malt myself. I even tried my hand at growing hops, which worked out well.
But as I got more into it I realized I could never get to the bottom of it. I could theoretically make my own barley malt, but that's a highly involved process. Beyond that I could grow my own barley. I could culture my own yeast. I'm not sure how I would do proper sanitation without using chlorine or other commercially available sanitizing agents.
So while I think it's great to get into the process and learn to make things closer to the source, in the end there it's pretty damn hard to get to "scratch" for almost any food or drink we consume.
+1
I have gone through a very similar process making breads including sourdough. Keeping bacteria/yeast healthy and uncontaminated is a tricky business.
Side-side note, a chemist has found a way to brew heroin from sugar using yeast.
http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/home-brewed-heroin
Aside from tittilating headlines, this method has the potential to grow inexpensive pharmaceuticals.
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I cut the moldy part off my cream cheese today and used 2oz of non-moldy cream cheese in my keto pancakes recipe. I'm going to die from low-carb *and* moldy food! ;-)Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »
Was she by chance Cajun or Creole? That was my dad's philosophy growing up. We were nit allowed to throw out any spoiled or moldy food. It was just made into something else. We ate a lot of gumbos and jambalayas, with lots of spices.
Didn't learn about throwing out bad food until a few years into my marriage...That was a very interesting talk.
No, but her parents were Italian immigrant working people, and she grew up during the Depression/WW2.
Ahhh. I see. Do you throw things out now or is it still a struggle to do so?
I'm finding the older I get, the harder it is to throw things away. This applies to food that might be slightly dodgy, clothing, rubber bands... (Who said we all turn into our mothers eventually!)
I haven't started sticking the old bits of soap together to make a 'new' bar yet, but I'm sure that'll come.
You're hardcore! I haven't done mouldy cream cheese... yet. (Possibly because I don't buy it very often.)0 -
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Nakeshia88 wrote: »To give a little background I'm already on a highly restricted diet due to digestion and fatigue issues - a low FODMAP diet pretty much rules out gluten, legumes, most dairy, added sugars, artificial sweeteners and in my case alcohol - along with onions, garlic, apples and many berries. As I'm already so restricted I'm looking for ways to eat the most nutritious foods I can. 'Clean eating' or sticking to mostly natural and low processed (in my mind processing food is doing things like fermenting, grinding, brewing, roasting, drying etc etc.) foods seems to work the best for me at this point in time. Filling my already restricted meals with 'empty calorie' and convenience foods just seems like a waste.
Wouldn't those things be off limits for you anyway? I'm not understanding why you'd make up a restriction in addition to the low FODMAP one.
Personally, rather than a rather arbitrary distinction between things you COULD make and things you couldn't--like others have said, I could buy a soda maker thing and am not sure I could make proper yogurt--why not achieve the goal of getting the best fuel for your body by simply focusing on the specifics of what you eat. I can make cake, but that doesn't mean that eating lots of cake is good for me. Eating it in moderation on occasion, sure.
But it's up to you, so if it makes you happy or makes the low FODMAP thing more bearable, go for it.
Yoghurt is surprisingly easy!! Pic below made by me over the weekend. It is insanely good. This is my first batch from scratch, I was using packet mix previously.
I want to dive face first into that.
I love yogurt so much.
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I love this idea. Nothing wrong with trying to eat healthier and more simply . I kind of wanna try this myself !0
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The pretty much confirmed my personal bias... only hard cheese. We don't buy the kind of bread that gets mold.
I don't trust anything else.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Nakeshia88 wrote: »To give a little background I'm already on a highly restricted diet due to digestion and fatigue issues - a low FODMAP diet pretty much rules out gluten, legumes, most dairy, added sugars, artificial sweeteners and in my case alcohol - along with onions, garlic, apples and many berries. As I'm already so restricted I'm looking for ways to eat the most nutritious foods I can. 'Clean eating' or sticking to mostly natural and low processed (in my mind processing food is doing things like fermenting, grinding, brewing, roasting, drying etc etc.) foods seems to work the best for me at this point in time. Filling my already restricted meals with 'empty calorie' and convenience foods just seems like a waste.
Wouldn't those things be off limits for you anyway? I'm not understanding why you'd make up a restriction in addition to the low FODMAP one.
Personally, rather than a rather arbitrary distinction between things you COULD make and things you couldn't--like others have said, I could buy a soda maker thing and am not sure I could make proper yogurt--why not achieve the goal of getting the best fuel for your body by simply focusing on the specifics of what you eat. I can make cake, but that doesn't mean that eating lots of cake is good for me. Eating it in moderation on occasion, sure.
But it's up to you, so if it makes you happy or makes the low FODMAP thing more bearable, go for it.
Yoghurt is surprisingly easy!! Pic below made by me over the weekend. It is insanely good. This is my first batch from scratch, I was using packet mix previously.
I want to dive face first into that.
I love yogurt so much.
Oh man, does that look good!
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Nakeshia88 wrote: »To give a little background I'm already on a highly restricted diet due to digestion and fatigue issues - a low FODMAP diet pretty much rules out gluten, legumes, most dairy, added sugars, artificial sweeteners and in my case alcohol - along with onions, garlic, apples and many berries. As I'm already so restricted I'm looking for ways to eat the most nutritious foods I can. 'Clean eating' or sticking to mostly natural and low processed (in my mind processing food is doing things like fermenting, grinding, brewing, roasting, drying etc etc.) foods seems to work the best for me at this point in time. Filling my already restricted meals with 'empty calorie' and convenience foods just seems like a waste.
Wouldn't those things be off limits for you anyway? I'm not understanding why you'd make up a restriction in addition to the low FODMAP one.
Personally, rather than a rather arbitrary distinction between things you COULD make and things you couldn't--like others have said, I could buy a soda maker thing and am not sure I could make proper yogurt--why not achieve the goal of getting the best fuel for your body by simply focusing on the specifics of what you eat. I can make cake, but that doesn't mean that eating lots of cake is good for me. Eating it in moderation on occasion, sure.
But it's up to you, so if it makes you happy or makes the low FODMAP thing more bearable, go for it.
Yoghurt is surprisingly easy!! Pic below made by me over the weekend. It is insanely good. This is my first batch from scratch, I was using packet mix previously.
Okay, I really will have to try doing it myself soon.
I love projects like that anyway.
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I stick to something similar - but, especially when you aren't the only person in your household, it can be tough to adhere to. Often, foods of this type aren't quick.
I have a 9 year old daughter who (as a competitive gymnast) is EXTREMELY FIT and has a very high caloric requirement for basic functioning, let alone work out days. This also means we have an insanely complicated schedule. If I tried to adhere to this every day, the result would be that I would almost never have time to make these foods, and then would end up binge-ing at the end of the day (which is the biggest part of my weight problem). So I HAD to accept that some prepared foods (with things I can't identify or pronounce) are going ot have to be OK for now. Even so, I try to stick to some of the less scary ones
This is actually why I DON'T agree with OP's philosophy.
As a matter of personal preference I actually go farther--I tend to prefer to make most things myself rather than buy them, rather than simply looking at whether I could make them. (Dairy has been my exception.) For example, I would never buy a premade pasta sauce, make my own dressing, make mayo when I want to use it, etc. I also source things from farms when possible, yadda, yadda.
BUT there are times when a convenience food (like canned beans) or a premade lunch from a place you know uses good ingredients or the like make eating healthy a LOT easier. I see zero benefit to making up a bunch of rules that really have nothing to do with the health benefits of the foods in question but make things harder or give you something else to feel guilty about unnecessarily.
Also, I'm a total snob re baked goods, so I never buy them at the grocery store. I make them myself or eat them made by friends who love to bake (or occasionally get something from a good bakery or restaurant). To delude myself into thinking this means they are more nutrient dense since "natural" or less likely to have calories that count toward my possible surplus would be foolish in the extreme. Of course, I do think they are find to include in my diet in moderation (and not excess), but my snobbery here is not why. That's solely about personal preference and taste. To claim it makes me healthier would be false.0 -
baby05phat wrote: »I read a lot of people's comments and I don't like this motto of "eat anything at all in moderation" at all.
There have been studies done that show just how much chemicals impact rat brains and how big companies can control your addictions/make you come back. Their food has a high salt,fat, sugar ratio that causes a surge of dopamine to come out like a drug. Can you really just have one and do it in moderation?
No. I personally can not. When I eat crappy chemicals I always come back to them and the cycle doesn't end.
When I totally stop them and eat things that are raw/organic and wean myself off the chemicals I have actual withdrawal but it results in stopping the intense cravings and makes you stop wanting them completely. Yes I can spiral back into it but I have to do an organic detox to get out of it. Our food industry currently sucks and it is a battle for a lot of people which is why obesity is an epidemic.
So regardless what anyone says OP's suggestion sounds like she will focus mostly on raw foods/minus all the chemicals, and that's great.
Um, yes?0 -
baby05phat wrote: »Can you really just have one and do it in moderation?
Sure.
Also, food contained fat, salt, and sugar before industrial food was a big thing.
I mostly cook at home, and I quite like fat, learned to add salt when cooking (it makes the food come together better and the flavors pop, or so I was told), and I quite like homemade baked goods, which contain sugar. I collect cookbooks and have plenty of older ones that also include recipes involving these items.
I do not find it impossible to eat these things in moderation, though, and don't find some store-bought ice cream harder to eat in moderation. Why would it be.
And obviously moderation assumes that you are eating an overall nutritious and balanced diet.No. I personally can not.
You probably could, but in any case this is your issue, not the food.
I personally find a well-cooked steak and mashed potatoes with some butter plus some roasted veggies more irresistible than a candy bar.
I also know from experience that I can get fat eating mostly home-cooked whole foods.So regardless what anyone says OP's suggestion sounds like she will focus mostly on raw foods/minus all the chemicals, and that's great.
What on earth did she say to suggest that she's going to do a raw food diet?0 -
@mamapeach910, @lemurcat12, @SLLRunner
I followed this as my basis (cos I have an Easi Yo flask maker), but there are other ways if you don't have one of those (check out the Salad in a Jar Greek Yog instructions), with some modifications: http://sustainablesuburbia.net/how-to-make-yoghurt-from-scratch-in-an-easiyo-yogurt-maker/
Modifications
1) I left mine in the flask for twice the stated processing time (about 21 hours I think). The longer you leave it, the tarter it gets, so you may want to experiment based on your taste buds (I also think from experimenting with packet mix that it gets thicker). I replaced the hot water in the flask halfway through.
2) I strained it through cheesecloth (you can also use an old teeshirt or a tea towel) for around 3-4 hours to remove the whey (you can just stick it in the fridge overnight, I happened to do it over the course of an evening)
3) Once it's strained you need to whip it (whip it good!) to get it smooth and creamy.
4) I also added 30ml of double (heavy) cream to mine (I used fat-free calcium enriched milk b/c it has a higher protein content, or at least it does in NZ!). You can just add that before whipping, or leave it out for a lower cal, fat-free version.
I didn't bother with extra milk powder, it gets plenty thick enough with the extra processing time and straining.
The carb content with the longer processing time is probably at least a 1/3 lower (because the bacteria munch on the lactose), but after much Googling I gave up on trying to work it out.
Nutritional info for the entire batch (including cream and accounting for whey removal) looks like this (nb that's kilojoules, not calories, divide by 4.2):
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I knew it wasn't safe. I'm not sure why I did it. I have a stomachache now, but it might be psychosomatic.mamapeach910 wrote: »
The pretty much confirmed my personal bias... only hard cheese. We don't buy the kind of bread that gets mold.
I don't trust anything else.
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I knew it wasn't safe. I'm not sure why I did it. I have a stomachache now, but it might be psychosomatic.mamapeach910 wrote: »
The pretty much confirmed my personal bias... only hard cheese. We don't buy the kind of bread that gets mold.
I don't trust anything else.
Hope that's as bad as it gets for you!
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mamapeach910 wrote: »
The pretty much confirmed my personal bias... only hard cheese. We don't buy the kind of bread that gets mold.
I don't trust anything else.
My philosophy is 'if it isn't furry, it's fine' 0 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »
The pretty much confirmed my personal bias... only hard cheese. We don't buy the kind of bread that gets mold.
I don't trust anything else.
My philosophy is 'if it isn't furry, it's fine'
My stomach is the most delicate of flowers. It's sad, really.
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As for eating moldy food...I have totally cut a moldy or spoiled part of food and ate the rest.
However, I also admit that I am one of the cheapest people you will ever come by. We have a new store opening up in town that only sells food that has an expired sell by date...of course at a fraction of the cost. It's a store created by the owner of Trader Joe's and the philosophy is that most food is good well beyond the sell by date. I am ridiculously excited to see this store open.
And yep, I am *this close* to being one of those crazies who goes dumpster diving at the Whole Foods to get all that good, fresh, perfectly fine food they throw away on a daily basis. However, it is just one step too far...even for me....cheap lady extraordinaire.
We used to have one of those stores. I was so sad when it closed! No fresh produce, just packaged stuff. They also often had parallel import Coke, it's interesting to try Coke from other places to see how the taste varies.0 -
We have one of those in the UK... http://www.approvedfood.co.uk/
All the stuff is past its best before date.0 -
bennettinfinity wrote: »MonsoonStorm wrote: »I think its great.
Over the past few years I have seen MFP slowly trend from accepting others food choices to becoming more militant about 'macros and calorie counts at the expense of everything else'. In my humble opinion it has gone too far that way.
I am a flexible dieter, and keeping my macros in check is my main focus, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to eat more natural foods and less processed stuff. Instead of applying your own experience and biases, just applaud people for wanting to improve their eating habits. Again, there are very few restrictions mentioned in the OP's post, it is all sensible and not very restrictive at all!
If she cant make it work and needs a more flexible eating plan, then let her come back and ask for that advice when its needed.
^ This.
It's *roughly* how I eat regardless. It's not "hard" I actually did it originally more from a standpoint of wanting to support local farmers rather than a "this will make me lose weight!" stand point.
At the end of the day the majority of this forum concentrates massively on CICO and generally neglects the "wellbeing" and philosophical/belief side of things. The thing is, sometimes that extra little bit of morality behind a reasoning can sometimes make it easier for that "system" to become part of your life rather than something you are just going to try because you've tried everything else and have nothing left to lose...
I guess I still haven't quite gotten used to the immediate negative reactions any time someone makes a post like OP.
"Hey! I wish to make some changes to improve my life and help out others!"... followed by "OMG why, CICO noob, you're an idiot"
Why can't people accept that changes like the one that OP stated aren't a big deal, and if OP decides it isn't working out due to time restrictions or whatever then she's hardly about to hurl herself into a vat of Coca Cola and attempt to drink it all until she explodes...
At the end of the day, you've no idea what OP's original habits are... perhaps the only significant difference will be coke, not exactly a massive deal to be replacing coke with something else.
Go for it OP. I hope it works well for you.
*runs off to find a shakeology person to demean to make up for the support given* that's how this works, right?
*edited to add* looks like this philosophy is an extension of a restricted diet you are already on. re: digestion issues... It's a roll of the dice. You keep trying things and once you find something that works, you stick to it. You stick to it because if you don't then life becomes thoroughly miserable. I hope you find your holy grail. Try what you like and give yourself whatever 'ideals' you like to try and figure it out. Whatever helps.
I think I can help you understand... see bolded - the OP didn't bring up this aspect, but most posts of that nature carry the 'morality' vibe. If you're being more moral in the choices you're making and I'm not making the same choices, that must make me...?forgtmenot wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »MonsoonStorm wrote: »I think its great.
Over the past few years I have seen MFP slowly trend from accepting others food choices to becoming more militant about 'macros and calorie counts at the expense of everything else'. In my humble opinion it has gone too far that way.
I am a flexible dieter, and keeping my macros in check is my main focus, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to eat more natural foods and less processed stuff. Instead of applying your own experience and biases, just applaud people for wanting to improve their eating habits. Again, there are very few restrictions mentioned in the OP's post, it is all sensible and not very restrictive at all!
If she cant make it work and needs a more flexible eating plan, then let her come back and ask for that advice when its needed.
^ This.
It's *roughly* how I eat regardless. It's not "hard" I actually did it originally more from a standpoint of wanting to support local farmers rather than a "this will make me lose weight!" stand point.
At the end of the day the majority of this forum concentrates massively on CICO and generally neglects the "wellbeing" and philosophical/belief side of things. The thing is, sometimes that extra little bit of morality behind a reasoning can sometimes make it easier for that "system" to become part of your life rather than something you are just going to try because you've tried everything else and have nothing left to lose...
I guess I still haven't quite gotten used to the immediate negative reactions any time someone makes a post like OP.
"Hey! I wish to make some changes to improve my life and help out others!"... followed by "OMG why, CICO noob, you're an idiot"
Why can't people accept that changes like the one that OP stated aren't a big deal, and if OP decides it isn't working out due to time restrictions or whatever then she's hardly about to hurl herself into a vat of Coca Cola and attempt to drink it all until she explodes...
At the end of the day, you've no idea what OP's original habits are... perhaps the only significant difference will be coke, not exactly a massive deal to be replacing coke with something else.
Go for it OP. I hope it works well for you.
*runs off to find a shakeology person to demean to make up for the support given* that's how this works, right?
*edited to add* looks like this philosophy is an extension of a restricted diet you are already on. re: digestion issues... It's a roll of the dice. You keep trying things and once you find something that works, you stick to it. You stick to it because if you don't then life becomes thoroughly miserable. I hope you find your holy grail. Try what you like and give yourself whatever 'ideals' you like to try and figure it out. Whatever helps.
I think I can help you understand... see bolded - the OP didn't bring up this aspect, but most posts of that nature carry the 'morality' vibe. If you're being more moral in the choices you're making and I'm not making the same choices, that must make me...?
Comes across as offensive, doesn't it?
I ignore a thread for a few days because I've said all that I wanted to, then see it has an insane amount of replies and come back to see why. First posts I see are these.
Morals are INDIVIDUAL. Everybody has their own moral code which they stand by. It is influenced by society, peers, family and religion as well as ones own individual belief system. Everybody's moral code is slightly different, even within groups.
I wouldn't have thought that this would need explaining to adults, but apparently it does. Feel free to take offense to that if you wish, at least that is potentially worth getting offended about...
Stop reading your own things into what others say, and then choosing to get your knickers in a twist over things that aren't there.0 -
MonsoonStorm wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »MonsoonStorm wrote: »I think its great.
Over the past few years I have seen MFP slowly trend from accepting others food choices to becoming more militant about 'macros and calorie counts at the expense of everything else'. In my humble opinion it has gone too far that way.
I am a flexible dieter, and keeping my macros in check is my main focus, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to eat more natural foods and less processed stuff. Instead of applying your own experience and biases, just applaud people for wanting to improve their eating habits. Again, there are very few restrictions mentioned in the OP's post, it is all sensible and not very restrictive at all!
If she cant make it work and needs a more flexible eating plan, then let her come back and ask for that advice when its needed.
^ This.
It's *roughly* how I eat regardless. It's not "hard" I actually did it originally more from a standpoint of wanting to support local farmers rather than a "this will make me lose weight!" stand point.
At the end of the day the majority of this forum concentrates massively on CICO and generally neglects the "wellbeing" and philosophical/belief side of things. The thing is, sometimes that extra little bit of morality behind a reasoning can sometimes make it easier for that "system" to become part of your life rather than something you are just going to try because you've tried everything else and have nothing left to lose...
I guess I still haven't quite gotten used to the immediate negative reactions any time someone makes a post like OP.
"Hey! I wish to make some changes to improve my life and help out others!"... followed by "OMG why, CICO noob, you're an idiot"
Why can't people accept that changes like the one that OP stated aren't a big deal, and if OP decides it isn't working out due to time restrictions or whatever then she's hardly about to hurl herself into a vat of Coca Cola and attempt to drink it all until she explodes...
At the end of the day, you've no idea what OP's original habits are... perhaps the only significant difference will be coke, not exactly a massive deal to be replacing coke with something else.
Go for it OP. I hope it works well for you.
*runs off to find a shakeology person to demean to make up for the support given* that's how this works, right?
*edited to add* looks like this philosophy is an extension of a restricted diet you are already on. re: digestion issues... It's a roll of the dice. You keep trying things and once you find something that works, you stick to it. You stick to it because if you don't then life becomes thoroughly miserable. I hope you find your holy grail. Try what you like and give yourself whatever 'ideals' you like to try and figure it out. Whatever helps.
I think I can help you understand... see bolded - the OP didn't bring up this aspect, but most posts of that nature carry the 'morality' vibe. If you're being more moral in the choices you're making and I'm not making the same choices, that must make me...?forgtmenot wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »MonsoonStorm wrote: »I think its great.
Over the past few years I have seen MFP slowly trend from accepting others food choices to becoming more militant about 'macros and calorie counts at the expense of everything else'. In my humble opinion it has gone too far that way.
I am a flexible dieter, and keeping my macros in check is my main focus, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to eat more natural foods and less processed stuff. Instead of applying your own experience and biases, just applaud people for wanting to improve their eating habits. Again, there are very few restrictions mentioned in the OP's post, it is all sensible and not very restrictive at all!
If she cant make it work and needs a more flexible eating plan, then let her come back and ask for that advice when its needed.
^ This.
It's *roughly* how I eat regardless. It's not "hard" I actually did it originally more from a standpoint of wanting to support local farmers rather than a "this will make me lose weight!" stand point.
At the end of the day the majority of this forum concentrates massively on CICO and generally neglects the "wellbeing" and philosophical/belief side of things. The thing is, sometimes that extra little bit of morality behind a reasoning can sometimes make it easier for that "system" to become part of your life rather than something you are just going to try because you've tried everything else and have nothing left to lose...
I guess I still haven't quite gotten used to the immediate negative reactions any time someone makes a post like OP.
"Hey! I wish to make some changes to improve my life and help out others!"... followed by "OMG why, CICO noob, you're an idiot"
Why can't people accept that changes like the one that OP stated aren't a big deal, and if OP decides it isn't working out due to time restrictions or whatever then she's hardly about to hurl herself into a vat of Coca Cola and attempt to drink it all until she explodes...
At the end of the day, you've no idea what OP's original habits are... perhaps the only significant difference will be coke, not exactly a massive deal to be replacing coke with something else.
Go for it OP. I hope it works well for you.
*runs off to find a shakeology person to demean to make up for the support given* that's how this works, right?
*edited to add* looks like this philosophy is an extension of a restricted diet you are already on. re: digestion issues... It's a roll of the dice. You keep trying things and once you find something that works, you stick to it. You stick to it because if you don't then life becomes thoroughly miserable. I hope you find your holy grail. Try what you like and give yourself whatever 'ideals' you like to try and figure it out. Whatever helps.
I think I can help you understand... see bolded - the OP didn't bring up this aspect, but most posts of that nature carry the 'morality' vibe. If you're being more moral in the choices you're making and I'm not making the same choices, that must make me...?
Comes across as offensive, doesn't it?
I ignore a thread for a few days because I've said all that I wanted to, then see it has an insane amount of replies and come back to see why. First posts I see are these.
Morals are INDIVIDUAL. Everybody has their own moral code which they stand by. It is influenced by society, peers, family and religion as well as ones own individual belief system. Everybody's moral code is slightly different, even within groups.
I wouldn't have thought that this would need explaining to adults, but apparently it does. Feel free to take offense to that if you wish, at least that is potentially worth getting offended about...
Stop reading your own things into what others say, and then choosing to get your knickers in a twist over things that aren't there.
I agree that morals are individual. What you do with how you hold those morals on here might become problematic though. (Not you, Monsoon, but any random individual.)
Let's use me. I'm a vegetarian. Now, I'm not the best example, because I'm not a vegetarian for primarily for ethical reasons, I just don't like meat and it doesn't like me back. But let's assume for the sake of discussion that I was a vegetarian for ethical reasons.
I could go about this two ways. I could make my decision for myself and decide that other people have a right to see things differently than I do, OR I could believe firmly that I am RIGHT and go into threads where people talk about eating meat and call out what they're eating and force my beliefs/morality into the discussion.
This is the problem with SOME people who have a moral position about their food choices. They don't always believe that people have a right to hold a different, equally moral position from a different perspective. Every single time someone "moral" calls food someone else eats "crap", they are denying the person eating said crap the agency to hold their own moral position on what foods to eat.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »
The pretty much confirmed my personal bias... only hard cheese. We don't buy the kind of bread that gets mold.
I don't trust anything else.
My philosophy is 'if it isn't furry, it's fine'
My stomach is the most delicate of flowers. It's sad, really.
I've also been known to quite happily stick my tongue on archaeological material to determine if it's bone or wood (used to love freaking my Archzoo students out with that trick).mamapeach910 wrote: »MonsoonStorm wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »MonsoonStorm wrote: »I think its great.
Over the past few years I have seen MFP slowly trend from accepting others food choices to becoming more militant about 'macros and calorie counts at the expense of everything else'. In my humble opinion it has gone too far that way.
I am a flexible dieter, and keeping my macros in check is my main focus, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to eat more natural foods and less processed stuff. Instead of applying your own experience and biases, just applaud people for wanting to improve their eating habits. Again, there are very few restrictions mentioned in the OP's post, it is all sensible and not very restrictive at all!
If she cant make it work and needs a more flexible eating plan, then let her come back and ask for that advice when its needed.
^ This.
It's *roughly* how I eat regardless. It's not "hard" I actually did it originally more from a standpoint of wanting to support local farmers rather than a "this will make me lose weight!" stand point.
At the end of the day the majority of this forum concentrates massively on CICO and generally neglects the "wellbeing" and philosophical/belief side of things. The thing is, sometimes that extra little bit of morality behind a reasoning can sometimes make it easier for that "system" to become part of your life rather than something you are just going to try because you've tried everything else and have nothing left to lose...
I guess I still haven't quite gotten used to the immediate negative reactions any time someone makes a post like OP.
"Hey! I wish to make some changes to improve my life and help out others!"... followed by "OMG why, CICO noob, you're an idiot"
Why can't people accept that changes like the one that OP stated aren't a big deal, and if OP decides it isn't working out due to time restrictions or whatever then she's hardly about to hurl herself into a vat of Coca Cola and attempt to drink it all until she explodes...
At the end of the day, you've no idea what OP's original habits are... perhaps the only significant difference will be coke, not exactly a massive deal to be replacing coke with something else.
Go for it OP. I hope it works well for you.
*runs off to find a shakeology person to demean to make up for the support given* that's how this works, right?
*edited to add* looks like this philosophy is an extension of a restricted diet you are already on. re: digestion issues... It's a roll of the dice. You keep trying things and once you find something that works, you stick to it. You stick to it because if you don't then life becomes thoroughly miserable. I hope you find your holy grail. Try what you like and give yourself whatever 'ideals' you like to try and figure it out. Whatever helps.
I think I can help you understand... see bolded - the OP didn't bring up this aspect, but most posts of that nature carry the 'morality' vibe. If you're being more moral in the choices you're making and I'm not making the same choices, that must make me...?forgtmenot wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »MonsoonStorm wrote: »I think its great.
Over the past few years I have seen MFP slowly trend from accepting others food choices to becoming more militant about 'macros and calorie counts at the expense of everything else'. In my humble opinion it has gone too far that way.
I am a flexible dieter, and keeping my macros in check is my main focus, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to eat more natural foods and less processed stuff. Instead of applying your own experience and biases, just applaud people for wanting to improve their eating habits. Again, there are very few restrictions mentioned in the OP's post, it is all sensible and not very restrictive at all!
If she cant make it work and needs a more flexible eating plan, then let her come back and ask for that advice when its needed.
^ This.
It's *roughly* how I eat regardless. It's not "hard" I actually did it originally more from a standpoint of wanting to support local farmers rather than a "this will make me lose weight!" stand point.
At the end of the day the majority of this forum concentrates massively on CICO and generally neglects the "wellbeing" and philosophical/belief side of things. The thing is, sometimes that extra little bit of morality behind a reasoning can sometimes make it easier for that "system" to become part of your life rather than something you are just going to try because you've tried everything else and have nothing left to lose...
I guess I still haven't quite gotten used to the immediate negative reactions any time someone makes a post like OP.
"Hey! I wish to make some changes to improve my life and help out others!"... followed by "OMG why, CICO noob, you're an idiot"
Why can't people accept that changes like the one that OP stated aren't a big deal, and if OP decides it isn't working out due to time restrictions or whatever then she's hardly about to hurl herself into a vat of Coca Cola and attempt to drink it all until she explodes...
At the end of the day, you've no idea what OP's original habits are... perhaps the only significant difference will be coke, not exactly a massive deal to be replacing coke with something else.
Go for it OP. I hope it works well for you.
*runs off to find a shakeology person to demean to make up for the support given* that's how this works, right?
*edited to add* looks like this philosophy is an extension of a restricted diet you are already on. re: digestion issues... It's a roll of the dice. You keep trying things and once you find something that works, you stick to it. You stick to it because if you don't then life becomes thoroughly miserable. I hope you find your holy grail. Try what you like and give yourself whatever 'ideals' you like to try and figure it out. Whatever helps.
I think I can help you understand... see bolded - the OP didn't bring up this aspect, but most posts of that nature carry the 'morality' vibe. If you're being more moral in the choices you're making and I'm not making the same choices, that must make me...?
Comes across as offensive, doesn't it?
I ignore a thread for a few days because I've said all that I wanted to, then see it has an insane amount of replies and come back to see why. First posts I see are these.
Morals are INDIVIDUAL. Everybody has their own moral code which they stand by. It is influenced by society, peers, family and religion as well as ones own individual belief system. Everybody's moral code is slightly different, even within groups.
I wouldn't have thought that this would need explaining to adults, but apparently it does. Feel free to take offense to that if you wish, at least that is potentially worth getting offended about...
Stop reading your own things into what others say, and then choosing to get your knickers in a twist over things that aren't there.
I agree that morals are individual. What you do with how you hold those morals on here might become problematic though. (Not you, Monsoon, but any random individual.)
Let's use me. I'm a vegetarian. Now, I'm not the best example, because I'm not a vegetarian for primarily for ethical reasons, I just don't like meat and it doesn't like me back. But let's assume for the sake of discussion that I was a vegetarian for ethical reasons.
I could go about this two ways. I could make my decision for myself and decide that other people have a right to see things differently than I do, OR I could believe firmly that I am RIGHT and go into threads where people talk about eating meat and call out what they're eating and force my beliefs/morality into the discussion.
This is the problem with SOME people who have a moral position about their food choices. They don't always believe that people have a right to hold a different, equally moral position from a different perspective. Every single time someone "moral" calls food someone else eats "crap", they are denying the person eating said crap the agency to hold their own moral position on what foods to eat.
Also vegetarian, but primarily for ethical reasons (though I also happened to not particularly like most meat). I don't care what other people eat, that's entirely their decision. It's always kind of amusing when friends apologise for eating meat in front of me (I mean, I appreciate the sentiment, but it's completely unnecessary).0 -
My problem is that I brought up "morals" as a simple way to explain how people could possibly have more success sticking to something, those morals being an individual belief that someone has and absolutely nothing to do with 'right' or 'wrong'.
But there's the issue isn't it. People strive for absolutes, black and white, simplicity. Even if it comes at the expense of the bigger picture. The world is just a huge great melting pot of grey but people yearn for black and white.
Right and wrong are subjective.
Note to self, add "morals" to the list of "Words You Must Not Use on MFP!" to reduce the risk of bunching of undergarments amongst the sub-divisions more prone to outrage.
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MonsoonStorm wrote: »My problem is that I brought up "morals" as a simple way to explain how people could possibly have more success sticking to something, those morals being an individual belief that someone has and absolutely nothing to do with 'right' or 'wrong'.
But there's the issue isn't it. People strive for absolutes, black and white, simplicity. Even if it comes at the expense of the bigger picture. The world is just a huge great melting pot of grey but people yearn for black and white.
Right and wrong are subjective.
Note to self, add "morals" to the list of "Words You Must Not Use on MFP!" to reduce the risk of bunching of undergarments amongst the sub-divisions more prone to outrage.
No, I do get what you're saying.
I think the disconnect is that you hold a reasonable stance, but other people sometimes don't.
When it comes to this whole thing with weight issues, another factor is that a lot of people have, somewhere buried deep in their psyche, nurtured a germ of belief that there's some sort of perfect solution, and if they'd just stumble across it, it would solve all their problems. I refer to them in my head as "true believers". When they believe they've uncovered that solution, they will argue long and loud because of that whole RIGHT thing.
Weight issues be complicated, yo.
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Nakeshia88 wrote: »My new philosophy for food is that if you can't grow it, catch it, kill it or make it yourself then don't eat it. For example: I can grow fruits/vegetables/legumes/grains and nuts so these are OK; I can fish and shoot so meat is OK; and I can/could easily learn to do things like grow/grind my own flour, salt and coffee, I can brew beer, make bread and pasta so these are OK - however, I couldn't make something like Coca Cola or anything containing artificial ingredients/additives so I won't eat these things.
So lately when I'm picking up food that's in a tin, bag or box I'll read the ingredients and ask myself, could I grow or kill these ingredients, process and mix them together myself to make this? If so, then I'll buy it, if not, back it goes! What do you think of this philosophy?
Well that sounds like a very wholesome food philosophy, not to mention quite sustainable and somewhat ethical too.
I reckon anything goes as long as it is reasonable and you don't take it too far. For example, an absolute ban on convenience food is unreasonable imo as it is too extreme. That's not to say go crazy on it, but if you very very occasionally as a last resort buy convenience food because it suits your schedule or you will go through much hardship then its probably ok.
I like the idea of catching/growing etc yourself means its pretty much ok to eat it. It's a healthy way of looking at things. Processed food these days have so much garbage, artificial junk and toxins in it which really damages your health it really is a last resort/no-no. Companies these days just load their products with so much crap not with the consumer's health in mind but with profit in mind, which leads them to cut corners or use unethically sourced/unhealthy/artificial ingredients which are just absolute poison for your body.
If used as a general rule of thumb life/food guideline it's a great way to guide your eating habits and lifestyle. But if it's going to be something which you imprison yourself within unnecessarily then it's probably not a healthy mindset. Everything in moderation!
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If used as a general rule of thumb life/food guideline it's a great way to guide your eating habits and lifestyle. But if it's going to be something which you imprison yourself within unnecessarily then it's probably not a healthy mindset. Everything in moderation!
I would never suggest that anyone follow this or any kind of health theory as an absolute rule (unless specifically instructed to by registered medical professionals), like you say it's more of a guideline that I'm choosing to live by.
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Nakeshia88 wrote: »If used as a general rule of thumb life/food guideline it's a great way to guide your eating habits and lifestyle. But if it's going to be something which you imprison yourself within unnecessarily then it's probably not a healthy mindset. Everything in moderation!
I would never suggest that anyone follow this or any kind of health theory as an absolute rule (unless specifically instructed to by registered medical professionals), like you say it's more of a guideline that I'm choosing to live by.
Great! Then I think its a great guideline to live by! We tend to mindlessly overconsume food and products these days with no idea or care where it comes from. Living conscientiously esp in today's overpolluted, overexhausted world/planet needs to happen more often!0
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