article: "5 really simple new rules for weight loss"
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TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.
I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.
You know very well you understand what I'm saying. You can choose to ignore the point if you'd like. Others understood it perfectly fine when they commented.
@MrM27, no I don't understand what you are saying. What does "that no one will have success with now being aware" mean? It is like you got some of your words mixed up and I'm not sure what words you meant to put in their place.
Here. Since you want to fixate on a word when you know very well what I meant.
"That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this [that] no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out."
So, you're suggesting that people won't long their calories, but they'll still count their calories? Perhaps, but again, we're talking about long term.0 -
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TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.
I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.
You know very well you understand what I'm saying. You can choose to ignore the point if you'd like. Others understood it perfectly fine when they commented.
@MrM27, no I don't understand what you are saying. What does "that no one will have success with now being aware" mean? It is like you got some of your words mixed up and I'm not sure what words you meant to put in their place.
Here. Since you want to fixate on a word when you know very well what I meant.
"That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this [that] no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out."
So, you're suggesting that people won't long their calories, but they'll still count their calories? Perhaps, but again, we're talking about long term.
You think everyone that lost weight being on MFP still log food?
No.0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.
I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.
You know very well you understand what I'm saying. You can choose to ignore the point if you'd like. Others understood it perfectly fine when they commented.
@MrM27, no I don't understand what you are saying. What does "that no one will have success with now being aware" mean? It is like you got some of your words mixed up and I'm not sure what words you meant to put in their place.
Here. Since you want to fixate on a word when you know very well what I meant.
"That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this [that] no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out."
So, you're suggesting that people won't long their calories, but they'll still count their calories? Perhaps, but again, we're talking about long term.
I think the key point here is that successful people are aware. How they apply that awareness can take many forms. Just like the losing weight part, it's finding what works for you. Some people will continue counting and logging, some people won't. Doesn't mean the people who don't count and log won't be successful.0 -
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Psst, love the new profile pic MrM
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bunsen_honeydew wrote: »CICO for weight management is like abstinence for birth control. Obviously it works, but it only works if you actually do it, or in the case of abstinence, it works if you don't "do it". Clearly for the vast majority of people, calorie counting is not something which is long term sustainable For them. I'm happy for scientists to carry on looking at other ways which have a better compliance rate.
What a great analogy.0 -
Since being on MFP and counting calories, and counting exercise, I have lot 18 pounds. Doesn't seem like a lot, about a pound a week, but prior, I had lost another 9 pounds. It's going slowly, but it's going. I find that personally, when I stop exercising, that my weight doesn't budge, as though exercise fuels my metabolism. If CICO doesn't work, I don't know what does. I delete "friends" when they don't log on for more than 20 days because it indicates they have given up. If they come back, I'll be glad to accept them as friends again.
Bottom line: Stop trying, and start doing. CICO works.0 -
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atypicalsmith wrote: »Since being on MFP and counting calories, and counting exercise, I have lot 18 pounds. Doesn't seem like a lot, about a pound a week, but prior, I had lost another 9 pounds. It's going slowly, but it's going. I find that personally, when I stop exercising, that my weight doesn't budge, as though exercise fuels my metabolism. If CICO doesn't work, I don't know what does. I delete "friends" when they don't log on for more than 20 days because it indicates they have given up. If they come back, I'll be glad to accept them as friends again.
Bottom line: Stop trying, and start doing. CICO works.Nony_Mouse wrote: »
Trying you are... Doing you are not.0 -
galgenstrick wrote: »atypicalsmith wrote: »Since being on MFP and counting calories, and counting exercise, I have lot 18 pounds. Doesn't seem like a lot, about a pound a week, but prior, I had lost another 9 pounds. It's going slowly, but it's going. I find that personally, when I stop exercising, that my weight doesn't budge, as though exercise fuels my metabolism. If CICO doesn't work, I don't know what does. I delete "friends" when they don't log on for more than 20 days because it indicates they have given up. If they come back, I'll be glad to accept them as friends again.
Bottom line: Stop trying, and start doing. CICO works.Nony_Mouse wrote: »
Trying you are... Doing you are not.
Huh?0 -
atypicalsmith wrote: »galgenstrick wrote: »atypicalsmith wrote: »Since being on MFP and counting calories, and counting exercise, I have lot 18 pounds. Doesn't seem like a lot, about a pound a week, but prior, I had lost another 9 pounds. It's going slowly, but it's going. I find that personally, when I stop exercising, that my weight doesn't budge, as though exercise fuels my metabolism. If CICO doesn't work, I don't know what does. I delete "friends" when they don't log on for more than 20 days because it indicates they have given up. If they come back, I'll be glad to accept them as friends again.
Bottom line: Stop trying, and start doing. CICO works.Nony_Mouse wrote: »
Trying you are... Doing you are not.
Huh?
Lol, never mind. I turned your quote into a yoda quote because I saw the yoda link.0 -
galgenstrick wrote: »atypicalsmith wrote: »galgenstrick wrote: »atypicalsmith wrote: »Since being on MFP and counting calories, and counting exercise, I have lot 18 pounds. Doesn't seem like a lot, about a pound a week, but prior, I had lost another 9 pounds. It's going slowly, but it's going. I find that personally, when I stop exercising, that my weight doesn't budge, as though exercise fuels my metabolism. If CICO doesn't work, I don't know what does. I delete "friends" when they don't log on for more than 20 days because it indicates they have given up. If they come back, I'll be glad to accept them as friends again.
Bottom line: Stop trying, and start doing. CICO works.Nony_Mouse wrote: »
Trying you are... Doing you are not.
Huh?
Lol, never mind. I turned your quote into a yoda quote because I saw the yoda link.
As long as you're having a good time, I commend you!0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
You're disagreeing with what he said and then saying what he said....again.
Well, he restated what I said upthread, which made this whole thing a circle in the first place.
Might as well play along.
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TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.
I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.
You know very well you understand what I'm saying. You can choose to ignore the point if you'd like. Others understood it perfectly fine when they commented.
@MrM27, no I don't understand what you are saying. What does "that no one will have success with now being aware" mean? It is like you got some of your words mixed up and I'm not sure what words you meant to put in their place.
Here. Since you want to fixate on a word when you know very well what I meant.
"That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this [that] no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out."
So, you're suggesting that people won't long their calories, but they'll still count their calories? Perhaps, but again, we're talking about long term.
You think everyone that lost weight being on MFP still log food?
OMG... you and Leo are too cute.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.
I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.
But the study has NOTHING to do with calorie counting.
This can't be stressed enough.
These observational studies are disease prevalence studies. Not dietary strategy studies.
Consider the questionnaires for Nurses Health (included in the meta analysis):
http://www.channing.harvard.edu/nhs/?page_id=246
How many questionnaires can you find that even mention calorie counting?
Consider a technique x in population y. If only a very small percent of the population is even trying the technique - it could be much more successful within this group - but it will be statistically insignificant because of infrequency of use. Or it can be drowned out by reported use due to question bias - "Have you ever counted calories for weight loss?" Yeah, I tired it for a week, didn't work - gets reported as "yes" - oh, did t lose weight? Calorie counting doesn't work!
These studies are next to useless in post study analysis of this type. They aren't intended for this.
It's also why the are so bad communicating results about: people that eat yogurt lost weight or people that eat cheese gained weight. No the yogurt/cheese aren't causing the loss or gain but one is likely part of the cornocopia of someone trying to eat healthy (those commercials on active culture of yogurts really sell "health") and cheese is, in a lot of American recipes, an add on to other primary meal elements (pasta, burgers, etc) served in sauces, melted, etc... The study only points to people eating with more sauces, etc. The same type of evaluation of French diet (where cheese is recognized as a more stand alone food) doesn't show the same population with weight gain...
Based on these type of studies, having a Dean of Nutrition state that "calorie counting doesn't work" is a nice sound bite, but both spacious and a disservice to patients.
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TimothyFish wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.
I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.
But the study has NOTHING to do with calorie counting.
I wouldn't know, since I haven't seen the study, but Dr. Mozaffarian, who authored the study seems to think it did. I tend to think the people who did a study are more likely to know what they did than someone who has just read their work.
Wait, you are arguing about a study you haven't read or seen - because the senior investigator said something something?
You are aware that he isn't the primary investigator? That he didn't do the research, or the analysis? That at best he funded, review the work and set guidelines?
That the comment he made is nowhere to be seen in the publication?
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That is a great picture.mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.
I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.
You know very well you understand what I'm saying. You can choose to ignore the point if you'd like. Others understood it perfectly fine when they commented.
@MrM27, no I don't understand what you are saying. What does "that no one will have success with now being aware" mean? It is like you got some of your words mixed up and I'm not sure what words you meant to put in their place.
Here. Since you want to fixate on a word when you know very well what I meant.
"That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this [that] no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out."
So, you're suggesting that people won't long their calories, but they'll still count their calories? Perhaps, but again, we're talking about long term.
You think everyone that lost weight being on MFP still log food?
OMG... you and Leo are too cute.
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.
I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.
But the study has NOTHING to do with calorie counting.
This can't be stressed enough.
These observational studies are disease prevalence studies. Not dietary strategy studies.
Consider the questionnaires for Nurses Health (included in the meta analysis):
http://www.channing.harvard.edu/nhs/?page_id=246
How many questionnaires can you find that even mention calorie counting?
Consider a technique x in population y. If only a very small percent of the population is even trying the technique - it could be much more successful within this group - but it will be statistically insignificant because of infrequency of use. Or it can be drowned out by reported use due to question bias - "Have you ever counted calories for weight loss?" Yeah, I tired it for a week, didn't work - gets reported as "yes" - oh, did t lose weight? Calorie counting doesn't work!
These studies are next to useless in post study analysis of this type. They aren't intended for this.
It's also why the are so bad communicating results about: people that eat yogurt lost weight or people that eat cheese gained weight. No the yogurt/cheese aren't causing the loss or gain but one is likely part of the cornocopia of someone trying to eat healthy (those commercials on active culture of yogurts really sell "health") and cheese is, in a lot of American recipes, an add on to other primary meal elements (pasta, burgers, etc) served in sauces, melted, etc... The study only points to people eating with more sauces, etc. The same type of evaluation of French diet (where cheese is recognized as a more stand alone food) doesn't show the same population with weight gain...
Based on these type of studies, having a Dean of Nutrition state that "calorie counting doesn't work" is a nice sound bite, but both spacious and a disservice to patients.
do you mean specious?
anyway, let's him speak:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHTsJR0fuIs
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.
I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.
But the study has NOTHING to do with calorie counting.
I wouldn't know, since I haven't seen the study, but Dr. Mozaffarian, who authored the study seems to think it did. I tend to think the people who did a study are more likely to know what they did than someone who has just read their work.
Wait, you are arguing about a study you haven't read or seen - because the senior investigator said something something?
You are aware that he isn't the primary investigator? That he didn't do the research, or the analysis? That at best he funded, review the work and set guidelines?
That the comment he made is nowhere to be seen in the publication?
The comment he made in the article is one that interprets what he believes the study indicates, along with some other studies, which he didn't name, so we have no way of knowing which ones he had in mind. I'm not ready to say he is wrong without additional information, but some of the comments in this thread indicate that some people want to say he is wrong, pretty much because it doesn't match what they believe to be true and because they don't like the guy. I think that what we have to consider is that beyond the short period when they are trying to lose weight, it is very hard for some people to remain vigilant in their weight management efforts. Does the study in question have anything to do with that problem? I don't know, but I do see counting calories as something that not everyone will continue long term. So, counting calories is probably not the ideal solution to the obesity problem.0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.
I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.
But the study has NOTHING to do with calorie counting.
I wouldn't know, since I haven't seen the study, but Dr. Mozaffarian, who authored the study seems to think it did. I tend to think the people who did a study are more likely to know what they did than someone who has just read their work.
Wait, you are arguing about a study you haven't read or seen - because the senior investigator said something something?
You are aware that he isn't the primary investigator? That he didn't do the research, or the analysis? That at best he funded, review the work and set guidelines?
That the comment he made is nowhere to be seen in the publication?
The comment he made in the article is one that interprets what he believes the study indicates, along with some other studies, which he didn't name, so we have no way of knowing which ones he had in mind. I'm not ready to say he is wrong without additional information, but some of the comments in this thread indicate that some people want to say he is wrong, pretty much because it doesn't match what they believe to be true and because they don't like the guy. I think that what we have to consider is that beyond the short period when they are trying to lose weight, it is very hard for some people to remain vigilant in their weight management efforts. Does the study in question have anything to do with that problem? I don't know, but I do see counting calories as something that not everyone will continue long term. So, counting calories is probably not the ideal solution to the obesity problem.
I believe that the negative comments of Mamapeach were referred to Dr Ludwig, this one:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/david-ludwig/
Dr Mozaffarian is this one:
http://www.nutrition.tufts.edu/dean/bio
who also teaches at Harvard:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/dariush-mozaffarian/0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.
I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.
But the study has NOTHING to do with calorie counting.
I wouldn't know, since I haven't seen the study, but Dr. Mozaffarian, who authored the study seems to think it did. I tend to think the people who did a study are more likely to know what they did than someone who has just read their work.
Wait, you are arguing about a study you haven't read or seen - because the senior investigator said something something?
You are aware that he isn't the primary investigator? That he didn't do the research, or the analysis? That at best he funded, review the work and set guidelines?
That the comment he made is nowhere to be seen in the publication?
The comment he made in the article is one that interprets what he believes the study indicates, along with some other studies, which he didn't name, so we have no way of knowing which ones he had in mind. I'm not ready to say he is wrong without additional information, but some of the comments in this thread indicate that some people want to say he is wrong, pretty much because it doesn't match what they believe to be true and because they don't like the guy. I think that what we have to consider is that beyond the short period when they are trying to lose weight, it is very hard for some people to remain vigilant in their weight management efforts. Does the study in question have anything to do with that problem? I don't know, but I do see counting calories as something that not everyone will continue long term. So, counting calories is probably not the ideal solution to the obesity problem.
So you are accusing people of having bias based on your self-reported unsupported bias. Ok.
Here is a thought - there is no 'ideal solution' to the 'obesity problem'. There are a bunch of different tools and approaches, some work for some people some of the time. Anyone stating x doesn't work fails to see that actually x (whatever x maybe) works for some people.0 -
I started doing this based upon the recommendation of a nurse with my insurance company, who took me on as my health coach. I gained 50 pounds after taking care of parents before they died and completely letting myself go. I am not doing so well with losing the weight (and only just started, really). But even though I've been upset about my weight my entire life (even when I was pretty close to the ideal BMI) and have counted calories and been on every diet invented, for nearly a decade I have not. I thought I had a rough idea of what I eat, but logging for me has been eye opening about how much in denial I have been. What is true is that not much works if you don't do it and all lifestyle change programs have pretty dismal statistics. But some people do manage to change their behavior. While I do think there are people who through medicines or metabolism or genes have great difficulty losing weight even on very few calories, I thought I knew where my weight came from and knew it was poor food choices. I love the New York Times health section, but most of these kinds of articles are really, really depressing because what you want when you're trying to make a change is encouragement, I think. But yes, other than issues with metabolism, etc., whether one is on an Adkins diet, a Mediterranean diet, the paleo diet, cutting out higher glycemic index foods, or the alcoholic's diet of booze and very little nutrition, those who eat fewer calories will almost always be thinner than those who eat more--all else about their activity and fat-burning capacity being roughly even. It's hard to get there however one tries to get there--for those of us who have to struggle with it. And unfortunately, I have seen many people succeed with Lite for Life (LGI), Adkins, gastric bypass, and lap bands, and I have also seen all of these fail. Whatever is limited requires choices. Not choosing is also a choice, I have found, but inertia is easier than effort. But nothing is worse than giving in?0
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The best part here is that what they really are saying is eat less calories. Just do it our way, not by counting calories like you are a peasant or something equally as foul. They keep refereing to 'people eating this...' without giving us any idea of which people it is. There is no link to the study, so we can't verify the data, look at method or even read their conclusion.
1 - grains, starches, and sugars tend to be high in calories. Eating less of them means less calories.
2 - protein-rich foods tend to fill me up quickly, so less calories.
3 - full-fat dairy...eh...
4 - eat your vegetables. oh, and red meat for some reason? why specifically red meat you say? No idea.
5 - don't worry about calories, you can eat as much as you want as long as it's doesn't have a high glycemic load.0 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.
I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.
But the study has NOTHING to do with calorie counting.
This can't be stressed enough.
These observational studies are disease prevalence studies. Not dietary strategy studies.
Consider the questionnaires for Nurses Health (included in the meta analysis):
http://www.channing.harvard.edu/nhs/?page_id=246
How many questionnaires can you find that even mention calorie counting?
Consider a technique x in population y. If only a very small percent of the population is even trying the technique - it could be much more successful within this group - but it will be statistically insignificant because of infrequency of use. Or it can be drowned out by reported use due to question bias - "Have you ever counted calories for weight loss?" Yeah, I tired it for a week, didn't work - gets reported as "yes" - oh, did t lose weight? Calorie counting doesn't work!
These studies are next to useless in post study analysis of this type. They aren't intended for this.
It's also why the are so bad communicating results about: people that eat yogurt lost weight or people that eat cheese gained weight. No the yogurt/cheese aren't causing the loss or gain but one is likely part of the cornocopia of someone trying to eat healthy (those commercials on active culture of yogurts really sell "health") and cheese is, in a lot of American recipes, an add on to other primary meal elements (pasta, burgers, etc) served in sauces, melted, etc... The study only points to people eating with more sauces, etc. The same type of evaluation of French diet (where cheese is recognized as a more stand alone food) doesn't show the same population with weight gain...
Based on these type of studies, having a Dean of Nutrition state that "calorie counting doesn't work" is a nice sound bite, but both spacious and a disservice to patients.
do you mean specious?
anyway, let's him speak:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHTsJR0fuIs
Do you mean let?
(Yes, I misspelled specious).
There is actually a pretty good resume of his position on the Tuft site - he focuses on evidence that Glycemic Index choices might correlate weight gain/loss.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.
I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.
No, I'm not discounting what the article has to say because it's an alternative to calorie counting.
<snip>
For some people, sure, eating in a certain way will probably give them a good way to achieve energy balance. But it's NOT, as the article asserted, THE answer.
There is no "THE" answer.
I believe there is. The "THE" answer is CICO. However, there is no EASY answer because, although brilliantly effective, counting calories for the rest of your life requires effort and commitment.
The easy answer will only come when a miracle pill is finally invented that only allows a certain # of calories to be absorbed each day, regardless of what you eat. Oh, and also has no side effects.
Now *that* would be easy.
0 -
I think this might be the study:
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/101/5/897.full
But I am not paying $25 to find out.
EDIT: On second look, it might not be it. This is confusing.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.
I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.
But the study has NOTHING to do with calorie counting.
I wouldn't know, since I haven't seen the study, but Dr. Mozaffarian, who authored the study seems to think it did. I tend to think the people who did a study are more likely to know what they did than someone who has just read their work.
Wait, you are arguing about a study you haven't read or seen - because the senior investigator said something something?
You are aware that he isn't the primary investigator? That he didn't do the research, or the analysis? That at best he funded, review the work and set guidelines?
That the comment he made is nowhere to be seen in the publication?
The comment he made in the article is one that interprets what he believes the study indicates, along with some other studies, which he didn't name, so we have no way of knowing which ones he had in mind. I'm not ready to say he is wrong without additional information, but some of the comments in this thread indicate that some people want to say he is wrong, pretty much because it doesn't match what they believe to be true and because they don't like the guy. I think that what we have to consider is that beyond the short period when they are trying to lose weight, it is very hard for some people to remain vigilant in their weight management efforts. Does the study in question have anything to do with that problem? I don't know, but I do see counting calories as something that not everyone will continue long term. So, counting calories is probably not the ideal solution to the obesity problem.
So you are accusing people of having bias based on your self-reported unsupported bias. Ok.
Here is a thought - there is no 'ideal solution' to the 'obesity problem'. There are a bunch of different tools and approaches, some work for some people some of the time. Anyone stating x doesn't work fails to see that actually x (whatever x maybe) works for some people.
The obesity problem that I was referring to is the fact that 78 million American adults and I don't know how many world wide are obese. Most of these people either have no desire to lose weight or are unsuccessful.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ4yd2W50No
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