article: "5 really simple new rules for weight loss"

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Replies

  • Phoenix_Down
    Phoenix_Down Posts: 530 Member
    CICO for weight management is like abstinence for birth control. Obviously it works, but it only works if you actually do it, or in the case of abstinence, it works if you don't "do it". Clearly for the vast majority of people, calorie counting is not something which is long term sustainable For them. I'm happy for scientists to carry on looking at other ways which have a better compliance rate.

    You haven't seen me eat, then.
  • PeachyCarol
    PeachyCarol Posts: 8,029 Member
    edited May 2015
    CICO for weight management is like abstinence for birth control. Obviously it works, but it only works if you actually do it, or in the case of abstinence, it works if you don't "do it". Clearly for the vast majority of people, calorie counting is not something which is long term sustainable For them. I'm happy for scientists to carry on looking at other ways which have a better compliance rate.

    CICO isn't calorie counting. I'm being so pedantic today.

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  • Phoenix_Down
    Phoenix_Down Posts: 530 Member
    MrM27 wrote: »
    CICO for weight management is like abstinence for birth control. Obviously it works, but it only works if you actually do it, or in the case of abstinence, it works if you don't "do it". Clearly for the vast majority of people, calorie counting is not something which is long term sustainable For them. I'm happy for scientists to carry on looking at other ways which have a better compliance rate.

    I don't understand how you say CICO isn't sustainable long term when it's the overall basis of weight gain/loss or maintenance. It's not a diet. Regardless of what approach you take it still comes down to CICO.

    ^this too.

    Admittedly my mind went straight to the gutter on this thread xD
  • bunsen_honeydew
    bunsen_honeydew Posts: 230 Member
    I'm using CICO as a label for calorie restriction by counting them. Like, with numbers, and by measuring things (also with numbers). As opposed to caloric restriction by following rules from a Diet Programme (TM)
  • bunsen_honeydew
    bunsen_honeydew Posts: 230 Member
    > it's not a diet

    Yes it is. It's a diet that you have to do for as long as you wish to lose/maintain your body mass.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    CICO for weight management is like abstinence for birth control. Obviously it works, but it only works if you actually do it, or in the case of abstinence, it works if you don't "do it". Clearly for the vast majority of people, calorie counting is not something which is long term sustainable For them. I'm happy for scientists to carry on looking at other ways which have a better compliance rate.

    Except that's not actually what this was.
  • Phoenix_Down
    Phoenix_Down Posts: 530 Member
    edited May 2015
    > it's not a diet

    Yes it is. It's a diet that you have to do for as long as you wish to lose/maintain your body mass.

    I think you're confused.


    Okay, so you're waiting on scientists to change thermodynamics to enable you to eat to your hearts content without gaining weight? Me too. I'll wait in that line because there's at least 6 flavors of Talenti I'd like to eat in succession without gaining.
  • Phoenix_Down
    Phoenix_Down Posts: 530 Member
    I'm using CICO as a label for calorie restriction by counting them. Like, with numbers, and by measuring things (also with numbers). As opposed to caloric restriction by following rules from a Diet Programme (TM)

    But CICO isn't a label for counting. It's how you gain/maintain/lose weight. And following the rules of any diet is still based on that principle
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  • GRITSandSLUTSandWINOS
    GRITSandSLUTSandWINOS Posts: 2,573 Member
    Being able to post and look at it helps keep me stay on the caloric amount I am supposed to have in order to lose weight; it has become 2nd nature to me. It also helps to be able to plan out what you can eat for a day (when you know you will be going out) and when to hold back to make up for eating more - or cutting in half and bringing home the other. Restaurants normally give you enough food to feed 2 or 3 other people. Today I had a venison burger (no bun), hot dog (no bun), potato salad, baked beans, and a pickle and 2 glasses of water; I stayed under the caloric amount for one meal that I should. I also ate a lot slower, too. Gobbling down your food generally means you will overeat.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited May 2015
    I'm using CICO as a label for calorie restriction by counting them. Like, with numbers, and by measuring things (also with numbers). As opposed to caloric restriction by following rules from a Diet Programme (TM)

    But that's not what it means. The term for that is "counting calories."

    I'd personally include any form of watching calories in the "counting calories" bucket, also, even without specific logging.

    This study did not compare other approaches with counting calories anyway. It compared long-term diets of people who happened to maintain their weight with those who gained. For all we know, some high percentage of those eating lots of chicken breast, yogurt, seafood, and veggies may also have been counting calories. They also may have been more active overall.

    I'm not remotely surprised that people who tend to eat more nutritious meals that are in accord with the prevailing health advice also happened to eat fewer calories (in a relative sense, as compared with their maintenance level) and maintain their weight. What I don't think this study shows is that someone who--for whatever reason--doesn't eat that way can best create and sustain a weight loss by changing the types of foods he or she eats.
  • fearlessleader104
    fearlessleader104 Posts: 723 Member
    Hello
  • PeachyCarol
    PeachyCarol Posts: 8,029 Member
    I'm using CICO as a label for calorie restriction by counting them. Like, with numbers, and by measuring things (also with numbers). As opposed to caloric restriction by following rules from a Diet Programme (TM)

    But it's not the correct use of the term, and using it wrongly leads to confusion.

    CICO is simply a statement regarding the energy balance equation. If you're talking about that, use it in context to avoid confusion. In maintenance, people are still going to have to apply CICO in one way or another that's sustainable for them. Saying it's not applicable to maintenance or is misleading and not true. Maintaining energy balance IS maintenance.

    If you're talking about counting calories? Well, there are accurate words for that too.

  • PeachyCarol
    PeachyCarol Posts: 8,029 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    I'm using CICO as a label for calorie restriction by counting them. Like, with numbers, and by measuring things (also with numbers). As opposed to caloric restriction by following rules from a Diet Programme (TM)

    But that's not what it means. The term for that is "counting calories."

    I'd personally include any form of watching calories in the "counting calories" bucket, also, even without specific logging.

    This study did not compare other approaches with counting calories anyway. It compared long-term diets of people who happened to maintain their weight with those who gained. For all we know, some high percentage of those eating lots of chicken breast, yogurt, seafood, and veggies may also have been counting calories. They also may have been more active overall.

    I'm not remotely surprised that people who tend to eat more nutritious meals that are in accord with the prevailing health advice also happened to eat fewer calories (in a relative sense, as compared with their maintenance level) and maintain their weight. What I don't think this study shows is that someone who--for whatever reason--doesn't eat that way can best create and sustain a weight loss by changing the types of foods he or she eats.

    I couldn't even bring myself to read the study once I saw Ludwig was on it.

    He manages to twist any findings around to say... "oh look!!!! Eat low GI foods!!!!!"

    In fact, I was thisclose to asking if Ludwig was one of the authors of the study just from reading the article about it.

  • TimothyFish
    TimothyFish Posts: 4,925 Member
    MrM27 wrote: »
    The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight

    That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.

    I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.
    The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight

    FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.

    There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.

    I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.
  • PeachyCarol
    PeachyCarol Posts: 8,029 Member
    edited May 2015
    MrM27 wrote: »
    The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight

    That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.

    I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.
    The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight

    FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.

    There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.

    I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.

    No, I'm not discounting what the article has to say because it's an alternative to calorie counting.

    I'm discounting it because one of the authors of the study it was based on ALWAYS finds that low-GI foods are the miracle answer to obesity.

    I have three issues with this. The first being that the GI index is dubious in itself since no one eats foods in isolation. The second being that I find it way too convenient that all of Ludwig's studies confirm his bias. It's sort of shoddy science to have a conclusion before you do your experiment. The last being that... well, what's the point of this post? There is no one answer. Scratch three different people with weight problems, find three different "best" ways for them to adhere to a plan to deal with them.

    For some people, sure, eating in a certain way will probably give them a good way to achieve energy balance. But it's NOT, as the article asserted, THE answer.

    There is no "THE" answer.

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  • barbecuesauce
    barbecuesauce Posts: 1,771 Member
    The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight

    FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.

    There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.

    I don't know if I will continue to log because I need the actual counting or the security it provides. But lately I've been logging after I eat and haven't been doing so hot, so it's probably the former.
  • PeachyCarol
    PeachyCarol Posts: 8,029 Member
    The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight

    FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.

    There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.

    I don't know if I will continue to log because I need the actual counting or the security it provides. But lately I've been logging after I eat and haven't been doing so hot, so it's probably the former.

    For my foreseeable future well into maintenance once it comes, I'll be logging. Not just because I have a terrible eye for portions, but because I have fitness goals that I plan to work on (there will be a major recomp happening) and I'm going to really want to track my macros.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    MrM27 wrote: »
    The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight

    That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.

    I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.
    The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight

    FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.

    There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.

    I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.

    But the study has NOTHING to do with calorie counting.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight

    FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.

    There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.

    I don't know if I will continue to log because I need the actual counting or the security it provides. But lately I've been logging after I eat and haven't been doing so hot, so it's probably the former.

    For my foreseeable future well into maintenance once it comes, I'll be logging. Not just because I have a terrible eye for portions, but because I have fitness goals that I plan to work on (there will be a major recomp happening) and I'm going to really want to track my macros.

    This is my current plan, and I'm also planning to experiment with different macros percentages to see how it works for me/how I feel.

    In fact, I'm just about to move into my 50% carb experiment, with the hope it will get me interested in tracking carefully again. (I've been maintaining, but it would be nice to lose more.)

    The fun part of more carbs is that for me it means I'm eating more vegetarian options again. Not that I will end up a vegetarian (I do love meat), but maybe a couple days of a week I can do meatless.

    (Uh, this is just chatting, not really topic related.)
  • SLLRunner
    SLLRunner Posts: 12,942 Member
    Once again, the news, which is supposed to be our source of up to date facts and truth, publishes something like this. The fifth rule instructs to quit obsessing over counting calories. “Our study adds to growing new research that counting calories is not the most effective strategy for long-term weight management and prevention.”
    WAT?
    I am posting this article for you to gawk at and ridicule. I in no way endorse it.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/simple-rules-weight-loss/story?id=31243000

    In for the gawking at the bold statement above.

    Gawking2.jpg

    You gotta find what works for you.
  • MelodyandBarbells
    MelodyandBarbells Posts: 7,724 Member
    CICO for weight management is like abstinence for birth control. Obviously it works, but it only works if you actually do it, or in the case of abstinence, it works if you don't "do it". Clearly for the vast majority of people, calorie counting is not something which is long term sustainable For them. I'm happy for scientists to carry on looking at other ways which have a better compliance rate.

    How exactly do we clearly know this?
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
    The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight

    FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.

    There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.

    You're disagreeing with what he said and then saying what he said....again.
  • TimothyFish
    TimothyFish Posts: 4,925 Member
    MrM27 wrote: »
    MrM27 wrote: »
    The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight

    That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.

    I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.
    The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight

    FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.

    There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.

    I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.

    You know very well you understand what I'm saying. You can choose to ignore the point if you'd like. Others understood it perfectly fine when they commented.

    @MrM27, no I don't understand what you are saying. What does "the no one will have success with now being aware" mean? It is like you got some of your words mixed up and I'm not sure what words you meant to put in their place.
  • TimothyFish
    TimothyFish Posts: 4,925 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    MrM27 wrote: »
    The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight

    That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.

    I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.
    The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight

    FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.

    There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.

    I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.

    But the study has NOTHING to do with calorie counting.

    I wouldn't know, since I haven't seen the study, but Dr. Mozaffarian, who authored the study seems to think it did. I tend to think the people who did a study are more likely to know what they did than someone who has just read their work.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    MrM27 wrote: »
    The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight

    That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.

    I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.
    The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight

    FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.

    There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.

    I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.

    But the study has NOTHING to do with calorie counting.

    I wouldn't know, since I haven't seen the study, but Dr. Mozaffarian, who authored the study seems to think it did. I tend to think the people who did a study are more likely to know what they did than someone who has just read their work.

    Read it and see.
  • Unknown
    edited May 2015
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