article: "5 really simple new rules for weight loss"
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Being able to post and look at it helps keep me stay on the caloric amount I am supposed to have in order to lose weight; it has become 2nd nature to me. It also helps to be able to plan out what you can eat for a day (when you know you will be going out) and when to hold back to make up for eating more - or cutting in half and bringing home the other. Restaurants normally give you enough food to feed 2 or 3 other people. Today I had a venison burger (no bun), hot dog (no bun), potato salad, baked beans, and a pickle and 2 glasses of water; I stayed under the caloric amount for one meal that I should. I also ate a lot slower, too. Gobbling down your food generally means you will overeat.0
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bunsen_honeydew wrote: »I'm using CICO as a label for calorie restriction by counting them. Like, with numbers, and by measuring things (also with numbers). As opposed to caloric restriction by following rules from a Diet Programme (TM)
But that's not what it means. The term for that is "counting calories."
I'd personally include any form of watching calories in the "counting calories" bucket, also, even without specific logging.
This study did not compare other approaches with counting calories anyway. It compared long-term diets of people who happened to maintain their weight with those who gained. For all we know, some high percentage of those eating lots of chicken breast, yogurt, seafood, and veggies may also have been counting calories. They also may have been more active overall.
I'm not remotely surprised that people who tend to eat more nutritious meals that are in accord with the prevailing health advice also happened to eat fewer calories (in a relative sense, as compared with their maintenance level) and maintain their weight. What I don't think this study shows is that someone who--for whatever reason--doesn't eat that way can best create and sustain a weight loss by changing the types of foods he or she eats.0 -
Hello0
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bunsen_honeydew wrote: »I'm using CICO as a label for calorie restriction by counting them. Like, with numbers, and by measuring things (also with numbers). As opposed to caloric restriction by following rules from a Diet Programme (TM)
But it's not the correct use of the term, and using it wrongly leads to confusion.
CICO is simply a statement regarding the energy balance equation. If you're talking about that, use it in context to avoid confusion. In maintenance, people are still going to have to apply CICO in one way or another that's sustainable for them. Saying it's not applicable to maintenance or is misleading and not true. Maintaining energy balance IS maintenance.
If you're talking about counting calories? Well, there are accurate words for that too.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »bunsen_honeydew wrote: »I'm using CICO as a label for calorie restriction by counting them. Like, with numbers, and by measuring things (also with numbers). As opposed to caloric restriction by following rules from a Diet Programme (TM)
But that's not what it means. The term for that is "counting calories."
I'd personally include any form of watching calories in the "counting calories" bucket, also, even without specific logging.
This study did not compare other approaches with counting calories anyway. It compared long-term diets of people who happened to maintain their weight with those who gained. For all we know, some high percentage of those eating lots of chicken breast, yogurt, seafood, and veggies may also have been counting calories. They also may have been more active overall.
I'm not remotely surprised that people who tend to eat more nutritious meals that are in accord with the prevailing health advice also happened to eat fewer calories (in a relative sense, as compared with their maintenance level) and maintain their weight. What I don't think this study shows is that someone who--for whatever reason--doesn't eat that way can best create and sustain a weight loss by changing the types of foods he or she eats.
I couldn't even bring myself to read the study once I saw Ludwig was on it.
He manages to twist any findings around to say... "oh look!!!! Eat low GI foods!!!!!"
In fact, I was thisclose to asking if Ludwig was one of the authors of the study just from reading the article about it.
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TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.
I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.
I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.
No, I'm not discounting what the article has to say because it's an alternative to calorie counting.
I'm discounting it because one of the authors of the study it was based on ALWAYS finds that low-GI foods are the miracle answer to obesity.
I have three issues with this. The first being that the GI index is dubious in itself since no one eats foods in isolation. The second being that I find it way too convenient that all of Ludwig's studies confirm his bias. It's sort of shoddy science to have a conclusion before you do your experiment. The last being that... well, what's the point of this post? There is no one answer. Scratch three different people with weight problems, find three different "best" ways for them to adhere to a plan to deal with them.
For some people, sure, eating in a certain way will probably give them a good way to achieve energy balance. But it's NOT, as the article asserted, THE answer.
There is no "THE" answer.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
I don't know if I will continue to log because I need the actual counting or the security it provides. But lately I've been logging after I eat and haven't been doing so hot, so it's probably the former.
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barbecuesauce wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
I don't know if I will continue to log because I need the actual counting or the security it provides. But lately I've been logging after I eat and haven't been doing so hot, so it's probably the former.
For my foreseeable future well into maintenance once it comes, I'll be logging. Not just because I have a terrible eye for portions, but because I have fitness goals that I plan to work on (there will be a major recomp happening) and I'm going to really want to track my macros.
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TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.
I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.
But the study has NOTHING to do with calorie counting.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »barbecuesauce wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
I don't know if I will continue to log because I need the actual counting or the security it provides. But lately I've been logging after I eat and haven't been doing so hot, so it's probably the former.
For my foreseeable future well into maintenance once it comes, I'll be logging. Not just because I have a terrible eye for portions, but because I have fitness goals that I plan to work on (there will be a major recomp happening) and I'm going to really want to track my macros.
This is my current plan, and I'm also planning to experiment with different macros percentages to see how it works for me/how I feel.
In fact, I'm just about to move into my 50% carb experiment, with the hope it will get me interested in tracking carefully again. (I've been maintaining, but it would be nice to lose more.)
The fun part of more carbs is that for me it means I'm eating more vegetarian options again. Not that I will end up a vegetarian (I do love meat), but maybe a couple days of a week I can do meatless.
(Uh, this is just chatting, not really topic related.)0 -
PolythenePam910 wrote: »Once again, the news, which is supposed to be our source of up to date facts and truth, publishes something like this. The fifth rule instructs to quit obsessing over counting calories. “Our study adds to growing new research that counting calories is not the most effective strategy for long-term weight management and prevention.”
WAT?
I am posting this article for you to gawk at and ridicule. I in no way endorse it.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/simple-rules-weight-loss/story?id=31243000
In for the gawking at the bold statement above.
You gotta find what works for you.
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bunsen_honeydew wrote: »CICO for weight management is like abstinence for birth control. Obviously it works, but it only works if you actually do it, or in the case of abstinence, it works if you don't "do it". Clearly for the vast majority of people, calorie counting is not something which is long term sustainable For them. I'm happy for scientists to carry on looking at other ways which have a better compliance rate.
How exactly do we clearly know this?
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mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
You're disagreeing with what he said and then saying what he said....again.0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.
I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.
You know very well you understand what I'm saying. You can choose to ignore the point if you'd like. Others understood it perfectly fine when they commented.
@MrM27, no I don't understand what you are saying. What does "the no one will have success with now being aware" mean? It is like you got some of your words mixed up and I'm not sure what words you meant to put in their place.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.
I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.
But the study has NOTHING to do with calorie counting.
I wouldn't know, since I haven't seen the study, but Dr. Mozaffarian, who authored the study seems to think it did. I tend to think the people who did a study are more likely to know what they did than someone who has just read their work.0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
That's making the assumption that just because you have success with counting and logging calories with an app like this the no one will have success with now being aware of the calories and macros in foods without having to track day in and day out. There are people that do have continued success.
I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could edit for grammar, so we all know what you are trying to say.mamapeach910 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »The key term here is "long term". While counting calories works well for weight loss, that doesn't mean it works well for long term maintenance. Realistically, I don't see myself logging everything I eat for the rest of my life, so either I'm going to do something else, or I'll gain weight
FOR YOU. Again, generalizing doesn't work.
There's no one solution. For some people, continued counting/logging works very well.
I've got no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that not everyone is going to count calories for the rest of their lives, so we shouldn't discount what the article says, just because some of the MFP community think they will count calories from now on. Not everyone is like you.
But the study has NOTHING to do with calorie counting.
I wouldn't know, since I haven't seen the study, but Dr. Mozaffarian, who authored the study seems to think it did. I tend to think the people who did a study are more likely to know what they did than someone who has just read their work.
Read it and see.0
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