Recomposition: Maintaining weight while losing fat

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  • FitForL1fe
    FitForL1fe Posts: 1,872 Member
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    shell1005 wrote: »
    I love the knowledge and wisdom in this thread.

    I'd love to pick all y'alls brains for advice. I am about to dip into maintenance. I want to continue to change the way my body looks and reduce BF%. However, I also need to really keep pushing cardio. I am training for a 10K and a half marathon coming up this summer and then this fall. I'll need to up my weekly miles, but I also want to look to start basic circuit strength training on machines.

    My access to a gym is a Planet Fitness. My cardio is either running or an elliptical...or lots and lots of walking at work.

    As a complete beginner, where should I start?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=884G0U0Y1C4
  • senecarr
    senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
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    shell1005 wrote: »
    I love the knowledge and wisdom in this thread.

    I'd love to pick all y'alls brains for advice. I am about to dip into maintenance. I want to continue to change the way my body looks and reduce BF%. However, I also need to really keep pushing cardio. I am training for a 10K and a half marathon coming up this summer and then this fall. I'll need to up my weekly miles, but I also want to look to start basic circuit strength training on machines.

    My access to a gym is a Planet Fitness. My cardio is either running or an elliptical...or lots and lots of walking at work.

    As a complete beginner, where should I start?

    Probably some form of Starting Strength - Original, Strong Lift (extra crispy), or Grilled (Ice Cream Fitness).
    If running maintenance calories, do the cutting variant of said program.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,220 Member
    edited June 2015
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    senecarr wrote: »
    shell1005 wrote: »
    I love the knowledge and wisdom in this thread.

    I'd love to pick all y'alls brains for advice. I am about to dip into maintenance. I want to continue to change the way my body looks and reduce BF%. However, I also need to really keep pushing cardio. I am training for a 10K and a half marathon coming up this summer and then this fall. I'll need to up my weekly miles, but I also want to look to start basic circuit strength training on machines.

    My access to a gym is a Planet Fitness. My cardio is either running or an elliptical...or lots and lots of walking at work.

    As a complete beginner, where should I start?

    Probably some form of Starting Strength - Original, Strong Lift (extra crispy), or Grilled (Ice Cream Fitness).
    If running maintenance calories, do the cutting variant of said program.

    None of those are going to work at Planet Fitness. She needs some sort of dumbbell and machine routine. Deadlifts are forbidden. They don't have a squat rack (they have smith machines, but she can't do squats in those).
  • senecarr
    senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
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    usmcmp wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    shell1005 wrote: »
    I love the knowledge and wisdom in this thread.

    I'd love to pick all y'alls brains for advice. I am about to dip into maintenance. I want to continue to change the way my body looks and reduce BF%. However, I also need to really keep pushing cardio. I am training for a 10K and a half marathon coming up this summer and then this fall. I'll need to up my weekly miles, but I also want to look to start basic circuit strength training on machines.

    My access to a gym is a Planet Fitness. My cardio is either running or an elliptical...or lots and lots of walking at work.

    As a complete beginner, where should I start?

    Probably some form of Starting Strength - Original, Strong Lift (extra crispy), or Grilled (Ice Cream Fitness).
    If running maintenance calories, do the cutting variant of said program.

    None of those are going to work at Planet Fitness. She needs some sort of dumbbell and machine routine. Deadlifts are forbidden. They don't have a squat rack (they have smith machines, but she can't do squats in those).

    They actually did pass that deadlifts ban across all locations?
    I really need to get stock in Planet Fitness, it is brilliant, run a gym where no one shows up to use the equipment, don't let those who do show up use the equipment in any demanding way, post profit.
  • FitForL1fe
    FitForL1fe Posts: 1,872 Member
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    usmcmp wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    shell1005 wrote: »
    I love the knowledge and wisdom in this thread.

    I'd love to pick all y'alls brains for advice. I am about to dip into maintenance. I want to continue to change the way my body looks and reduce BF%. However, I also need to really keep pushing cardio. I am training for a 10K and a half marathon coming up this summer and then this fall. I'll need to up my weekly miles, but I also want to look to start basic circuit strength training on machines.

    My access to a gym is a Planet Fitness. My cardio is either running or an elliptical...or lots and lots of walking at work.

    As a complete beginner, where should I start?

    Probably some form of Starting Strength - Original, Strong Lift (extra crispy), or Grilled (Ice Cream Fitness).
    If running maintenance calories, do the cutting variant of said program.

    None of those are going to work at Planet Fitness. She needs some sort of dumbbell and machine routine. Deadlifts are forbidden. They don't have a squat rack (they have smith machines, but she can't do squats in those).

    I actually went to a PF in a pretty run-down part of town for a while

    nobody was blaring any hunk alarms there lol

    but those rules apply to 99% of their locations, I'm sure
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,220 Member
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    senecarr wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    shell1005 wrote: »
    I love the knowledge and wisdom in this thread.

    I'd love to pick all y'alls brains for advice. I am about to dip into maintenance. I want to continue to change the way my body looks and reduce BF%. However, I also need to really keep pushing cardio. I am training for a 10K and a half marathon coming up this summer and then this fall. I'll need to up my weekly miles, but I also want to look to start basic circuit strength training on machines.

    My access to a gym is a Planet Fitness. My cardio is either running or an elliptical...or lots and lots of walking at work.

    As a complete beginner, where should I start?

    Probably some form of Starting Strength - Original, Strong Lift (extra crispy), or Grilled (Ice Cream Fitness).
    If running maintenance calories, do the cutting variant of said program.

    None of those are going to work at Planet Fitness. She needs some sort of dumbbell and machine routine. Deadlifts are forbidden. They don't have a squat rack (they have smith machines, but she can't do squats in those).

    They actually did pass that deadlifts ban across all locations?
    I really need to get stock in Planet Fitness, it is brilliant, run a gym where no one shows up to use the equipment, don't let those who do show up use the equipment in any demanding way, post profit.

    I had to pick up a race packet at one of the locations here. There were signs saying no deadlifting. It's a brilliant business strategy. Ban things that will increase your insurance, provide only slightly helpful equipment, super low rates make sure people don't bother canceling if they aren't going to show up for months (free money), make sure to remove anyone that could intimidate customers, provide pizza and bagels, profit.
  • HAS415
    HAS415 Posts: 48 Member
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    shell1005 wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    shell1005 wrote: »
    I love the knowledge and wisdom in this thread.

    I'd love to pick all y'alls brains for advice. I am about to dip into maintenance. I want to continue to change the way my body looks and reduce BF%. However, I also need to really keep pushing cardio. I am training for a 10K and a half marathon coming up this summer and then this fall. I'll need to up my weekly miles, but I also want to look to start basic circuit strength training on machines.

    My access to a gym is a Planet Fitness. My cardio is either running or an elliptical...or lots and lots of walking at work.

    As a complete beginner, where should I start?

    Probably some form of Starting Strength - Original, Strong Lift (extra crispy), or Grilled (Ice Cream Fitness).
    If running maintenance calories, do the cutting variant of said program.

    None of those are going to work at Planet Fitness. She needs some sort of dumbbell and machine routine. Deadlifts are forbidden. They don't have a squat rack (they have smith machines, but she can't do squats in those).

    And I am not gonna pretend I know what any of that means in all honesty.

    I do lots of body weight squats, but I know that isn't what makes significant changes.

    Ha ha Shelle, looks like we're in the same boat. But I'm training (well WILL be as soon as my trainer gives me the green light) for my first 5K and I'm 52. But I'm looking for tips, all of which I need to clear with my trainer. I'm sure he'll be full of them once I get to my goal. Till then, he's not giving me anything or letting me do a thing :(
  • Lleldiranne
    Lleldiranne Posts: 5,516 Member
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    Thanks for posting this, @usmcmp. I was doing a recomp before my last pregnancy and was pretty pleased with the results. Now, I'm still working on losing some of those pregnancy pounds before I try recomp again. This will be great to have as reference when I'm getting back to thinking about recomp.
  • HAS415
    HAS415 Posts: 48 Member
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    shell1005 wrote: »
    HAS415 wrote: »
    shell1005 wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    shell1005 wrote: »
    I love the knowledge and wisdom in this thread.

    I'd love to pick all y'alls brains for advice. I am about to dip into maintenance. I want to continue to change the way my body looks and reduce BF%. However, I also need to really keep pushing cardio. I am training for a 10K and a half marathon coming up this summer and then this fall. I'll need to up my weekly miles, but I also want to look to start basic circuit strength training on machines.

    My access to a gym is a Planet Fitness. My cardio is either running or an elliptical...or lots and lots of walking at work.

    As a complete beginner, where should I start?

    Probably some form of Starting Strength - Original, Strong Lift (extra crispy), or Grilled (Ice Cream Fitness).
    If running maintenance calories, do the cutting variant of said program.

    None of those are going to work at Planet Fitness. She needs some sort of dumbbell and machine routine. Deadlifts are forbidden. They don't have a squat rack (they have smith machines, but she can't do squats in those).

    And I am not gonna pretend I know what any of that means in all honesty.

    I do lots of body weight squats, but I know that isn't what makes significant changes.

    Ha ha Shelle, looks like we're in the same boat. But I'm training (well WILL be as soon as my trainer gives me the green light) for my first 5K and I'm 52. But I'm looking for tips, all of which I need to clear with my trainer. I'm sure he'll be full of them once I get to my goal. Till then, he's not giving me anything or letting me do a thing :(

    Nice! Congrats on signing up for your first 5K! It'll be awesome! I used to not be able to run around the block. I am still not a great runner and pretty gosh darn slow, but I've done 9 and 10Ks and look to keep pushing it for more.

    That's awesome! My first was supposed to be next Saturday but my trainer says I'm still not where he wants me. So I'm running one in October. I'm so excited! Keep up the great work!
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,220 Member
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    shell1005 wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    shell1005 wrote: »
    I love the knowledge and wisdom in this thread.

    I'd love to pick all y'alls brains for advice. I am about to dip into maintenance. I want to continue to change the way my body looks and reduce BF%. However, I also need to really keep pushing cardio. I am training for a 10K and a half marathon coming up this summer and then this fall. I'll need to up my weekly miles, but I also want to look to start basic circuit strength training on machines.

    My access to a gym is a Planet Fitness. My cardio is either running or an elliptical...or lots and lots of walking at work.

    As a complete beginner, where should I start?

    Probably some form of Starting Strength - Original, Strong Lift (extra crispy), or Grilled (Ice Cream Fitness).
    If running maintenance calories, do the cutting variant of said program.

    None of those are going to work at Planet Fitness. She needs some sort of dumbbell and machine routine. Deadlifts are forbidden. They don't have a squat rack (they have smith machines, but she can't do squats in those).

    And I am not gonna pretend I know what any of that means in all honesty.

    I do lots of body weight squats, but I know that isn't what makes significant changes.

    http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2014/01/14/strength-training-101-where-do-i-start/

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/rudy6.htm
  • Wiseandcurious
    Wiseandcurious Posts: 730 Member
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    usmcmp wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    shell1005 wrote: »
    I love the knowledge and wisdom in this thread.

    I'd love to pick all y'alls brains for advice. I am about to dip into maintenance. I want to continue to change the way my body looks and reduce BF%. However, I also need to really keep pushing cardio. I am training for a 10K and a half marathon coming up this summer and then this fall. I'll need to up my weekly miles, but I also want to look to start basic circuit strength training on machines.

    My access to a gym is a Planet Fitness. My cardio is either running or an elliptical...or lots and lots of walking at work.

    As a complete beginner, where should I start?

    Probably some form of Starting Strength - Original, Strong Lift (extra crispy), or Grilled (Ice Cream Fitness).
    If running maintenance calories, do the cutting variant of said program.

    None of those are going to work at Planet Fitness. She needs some sort of dumbbell and machine routine. Deadlifts are forbidden. They don't have a squat rack (they have smith machines, but she can't do squats in those).

    Would this routine help?
    https://muscleandstrength.com/workouts/dumbbell-only-home-or-gym-fullbody-workout.html

    I don't have access to a gym, but we have a primitive set of adjustable dumbbells at home that I won't be outgrowing too soon (am still in deficit, have just recently progressed to doing most of these lifts with 15lb dumbbells, but I assume that gym chain will have heavier dumbbells too). This is what I found that's dumbbell only and contains most compound lifts recommended on the forum, and this is what I've been doing for myself to preserve muscle mass while losing weight.

    Would that be a good routine to use when there's just no access to barbells etc, if one takes care to keep progressing with the weight? (Forgive me if the terms are wrong, I've never set foot in a gym, anything I know I know from reading you.)
  • tomatoey
    tomatoey Posts: 5,446 Member
    edited June 2015
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    I have a question - can high-frequency, high-volume, low-intensity training fit in with recomp goals?

    E.g. Bret Contreras' bodyweight program from Strong Curves, which has a scheme like 3x20 for most exercises, which vary day to day, hitting the major muscle groups. You do it 2 days in a row, with maybe optional cardio on the same day, then take a day off but do cardio, then 2 days of the program again, then a rest day.

    I'm trying to add weight where I can, but the max I can take over my shoulders right now is 15 lbs (tendonitis in right shoulder and right wrist. Not sure about weighting the left side exclusively because when I do that, that wrist gets cranky..). I'm using these weighted bars, not even a barbell. Hopefully I'll be able to take more with time, I just started feeling ok enough to do that, but I'm taking it easy with weight, just in case.

    I also add in the few machine exercises I can do - leg curls, cable kickbacks, and cable deadlifts (with the good arm only - so far maxing at 35 lbs there for 2x12, cranky wrist). I sometimes use a resistance band for hip thrusts, harder to do for squats / posterior movements due to grip issues.

    I'm also limited in terms of the kinds of progressions I can do with the bodyweight stuff due to limited range of motion. I can increase intensity by taking it very slowly on the eccentric, though.

    I add as much resistance to cardio as I can (stationary cycle and elliptical). Would this interfere with muscle growth?

    I'm thinking recomp might not be in the cards for me at the moment - would it be better to cut?
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    edited June 2015
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    tomatoey wrote: »
    I have a question - can high-frequency, high-volume, low-intensity training fit in with recomp goals?

    E.g. Bret Contreras' bodyweight program from Strong Curves, which has a scheme like 3x20 for most exercises, which vary day to day, hitting the major muscle groups. You do it 2 days in a row, with maybe optional cardio on the same day, then take a day off but do cardio, then 2 days of the program again, then a rest day.

    I'm trying to add weight where I can, but the max I can take over my shoulders right now is 15 lbs (tendonitis in right shoulder and right wrist. Not sure about weighting the left side exclusively because when I do that, that wrist gets cranky..). I'm using these weighted bars, not even a barbell. Hopefully I'll be able to take more with time, I just started feeling ok enough to do that, but I'm taking it easy with weight, just in case.

    I also add in the few machine exercises I can do - leg curls, cable kickbacks, and cable deadlifts (with the good arm only - so far maxing at 35 lbs there for 2x12, cranky wrist). I sometimes use a resistance band for hip thrusts, harder to do for squats / posterior movements due to grip issues.

    I'm also limited in terms of the kinds of progressions I can do with the bodyweight stuff due to limited range of motion. I can increase intensity by taking it very slowly on the eccentric, though.

    I add as much resistance to cardio as I can (stationary cycle and elliptical). Would this interfere with muscle growth?

    I'm thinking recomp might not be in the cards for me at the moment - would it be better to cut?

    Is it an overload to your muscles due to weight, or due to being tired by the end because of inadequate rest?

    I recall a couple studies that still showed hypotrophy at sets and 20 reps, but traditional style where rests were long enough to tackle the weights at heaviest they could do for those 20 reps.

    But do 20 reps, wait 15 sec, do 20 again, 15 sec rest again, 20 more, is going to artificially limit the weight you can do for the whole thing.
    That needs more glucose stores to handle the endurance, not muscle to handle the load.

    I'm sure you could get some, but you'll likely tap out early on getting more as easy as more traditional lifting with lower reps and high weight and longer rests to allow it, and bigger overload requiring the repair to get bigger.

    Good job keeping it realistic right now during injury recovery though, maintenance eating will help that too.
  • sistrsprkl
    sistrsprkl Posts: 1,013 Member
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    HAS415 wrote: »
    What is casein? Isn't that the stuff in like jalapenos that make them spicy? Hey do they sell that in pill form because I hear that hot stuff speeds up your metabolism and I can't really have much of that because of my ulcers.

    Think you're thinking of capsaicin.
    Anyway, to those who responded to me, thank you. Guess I'll look into casein and yes, I do like greek yogurt. I had forgot about it but had some today with my homemade strawberry jam. Not bad.
  • tomatoey
    tomatoey Posts: 5,446 Member
    edited June 2015
    Options
    heybales wrote: »
    tomatoey wrote: »
    I have a question - can high-frequency, high-volume, low-intensity training fit in with recomp goals?

    E.g. Bret Contreras' bodyweight program from Strong Curves, which has a scheme like 3x20 for most exercises, which vary day to day, hitting the major muscle groups. You do it 2 days in a row, with maybe optional cardio on the same day, then take a day off but do cardio, then 2 days of the program again, then a rest day.

    I'm trying to add weight where I can, but the max I can take over my shoulders right now is 15 lbs (tendonitis in right shoulder and right wrist. Not sure about weighting the left side exclusively because when I do that, that wrist gets cranky..). I'm using these weighted bars, not even a barbell. Hopefully I'll be able to take more with time, I just started feeling ok enough to do that, but I'm taking it easy with weight, just in case.

    I also add in the few machine exercises I can do - leg curls, cable kickbacks, and cable deadlifts (with the good arm only - so far maxing at 35 lbs there for 2x12, cranky wrist). I sometimes use a resistance band for hip thrusts, harder to do for squats / posterior movements due to grip issues.

    I'm also limited in terms of the kinds of progressions I can do with the bodyweight stuff due to limited range of motion. I can increase intensity by taking it very slowly on the eccentric, though.

    I add as much resistance to cardio as I can (stationary cycle and elliptical). Would this interfere with muscle growth?

    I'm thinking recomp might not be in the cards for me at the moment - would it be better to cut?

    Is it an overload to your muscles due to weight, or due to being tired by the end because of inadequate rest?

    It doesn't feel like an overload to my muscles at all, it's my ligaments and joints that complain about weight :)

    I have that tendinopathy in the wrist and shoulder, as well as osteoarthritis and patellofemoral syndrome in both knees, and a touch of quad tendinopathy (left leg). I have no pain if I don't apply any shear force to that left knee. Leg presses aggravate it (light weight, only 50-70 pounds), even doing them with straight shins and a partial range of motion. So do squats at any significant weight, which I can't do because of grip issues anyway. I do my best to avoid tracking over the knee, with my bodyweight exercises.
    heybales wrote: »
    tomatoey wrote: »
    I have a question - can high-frequency, high-volume, low-intensity training fit in with recomp goals?

    E.g. Bret Contreras' bodyweight program from Strong Curves, which has a scheme like 3x20 for most exercises, which vary day to day, hitting the major muscle groups. You do it 2 days in a row, with maybe optional cardio on the same day, then take a day off but do cardio, then 2 days of the program again, then a rest day.

    I'm trying to add weight where I can, but the max I can take over my shoulders right now is 15 lbs (tendonitis in right shoulder and right wrist. Not sure about weighting the left side exclusively because when I do that, that wrist gets cranky..). I'm using these weighted bars, not even a barbell. Hopefully I'll be able to take more with time, I just started feeling ok enough to do that, but I'm taking it easy with weight, just in case.

    I also add in the few machine exercises I can do - leg curls, cable kickbacks, and cable deadlifts (with the good arm only - so far maxing at 35 lbs there for 2x12, cranky wrist). I sometimes use a resistance band for hip thrusts, harder to do for squats / posterior movements due to grip issues.

    I'm also limited in terms of the kinds of progressions I can do with the bodyweight stuff due to limited range of motion. I can increase intensity by taking it very slowly on the eccentric, though.

    I add as much resistance to cardio as I can (stationary cycle and elliptical). Would this interfere with muscle growth?

    I'm thinking recomp might not be in the cards for me at the moment - would it be better to cut?

    Is it an overload to your muscles due to weight, or due to being tired by the end because of inadequate rest?

    I recall a couple studies that still showed hypotrophy at sets and 20 reps, but traditional style where rests were long enough to tackle the weights at heaviest they could do for those 20 reps.

    But do 20 reps, wait 15 sec, do 20 again, 15 sec rest again, 20 more, is going to artificially limit the weight you can do for the whole thing.
    That needs more glucose stores to handle the endurance, not muscle to handle the load.

    I'm sure you could get some, but you'll likely tap out early on getting more as easy as more traditional lifting with lower reps and high weight and longer rests to allow it, and bigger overload requiring the repair to get bigger.

    True, and good points all around. I agree that most of what I'm doing is endurance at this point :/ I feel a bit of challenge to the muscles, but not that much. What, if any, gains could I make by focusing on time under tension (fast concentric, super slow eccentric? This blogger looked at a few studies that suggested that it's conceivable that it might help (though he ultimately decided it's no better than normal intensity training, so why bother, but maybe it's a way someone like me could still progress):
    http://suppversity.blogspot.ca/2014/03/time-under-tension-tut-random-numbers.html

    Thank you so much for your thoughts :)
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    That is tough. What about the machines with heavier weight?
    While not compound lifts with supporting muscles, if the full range of motion and non-shear forces allows a better overload, that's still better. But with those kind of joint/tendon issues, those may not be great either.

    You just gotta give the muscles a reason to add more.
    That long eccentric for longer TUT is great idea, even combined with machines. I did that when I had broken ankle and maxed out the machine stack at lower reps on leg extension and curls. Lightened the weight, increased the reps to I think 15, and slowed the eccentric a lot.
    Except for poor calves, I think kept my strength, certainly kept the DOMS I was familiar with.
  • tomatoey
    tomatoey Posts: 5,446 Member
    Options
    heybales wrote: »
    That is tough. What about the machines with heavier weight?
    While not compound lifts with supporting muscles, if the full range of motion and non-shear forces allows a better overload, that's still better. But with those kind of joint/tendon issues, those may not be great either.

    You just gotta give the muscles a reason to add more.
    That long eccentric for longer TUT is great idea, even combined with machines. I did that when I had broken ankle and maxed out the machine stack at lower reps on leg extension and curls. Lightened the weight, increased the reps to I think 15, and slowed the eccentric a lot.
    Except for poor calves, I think kept my strength, certainly kept the DOMS I was familiar with.

    My gym doesn't have any that I can comfortably use :/

    I'm glad this idea makes sense, and that it worked for you :) Thanks so much for your feedback!

    I think a deficit, with this, rather than recomp, then?