Recomposition: Maintaining weight while losing fat
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I didn't get any definite response so I thought I'd post this here. Please forgive me if this is against rules or what not.
Hello,
I was on CICO for about 15 months and dropped 30 kg.
Last three months I did less than 50 grams of carbs.
Now I wanted to gain lean muscle so I ramped calories to maintenance levels as shown by mfp at 2400 (non tdee)
I workout 5 days a week and do 5/3/1
I went from 74 kg mid April to 80kg now
Eating almost 300g carbs but overall calories have been less than 2400 and now mfp says 2700.
I also take 10 grams of creatine and just started that in April as well.
So is 6 kg (12 lbs) normal? My abs are still visible and waist hasn't increased that much but I "feel" like obliques have gained fat.?
Should cut calories again?
I'm also getting mixed results from TDEE some say 2700-some 2900?
Im 5'10, 80kg now and desk jockey, I walk doggo around 3-4 days a week at 5.6 km/h avg speed for 2km and 5 days a week I workout as well.1 -
@viren19890viren19890 wrote: »I didn't get any definite response so I thought I'd post this here. Please forgive me if this is against rules or what not.
Hello,
I was on CICO for about 15 months and dropped 30 kg.
Last three months I did less than 50 grams of carbs.
Now I wanted to gain lean muscle so I ramped calories to maintenance levels as shown by mfp at 2400 (non tdee)
I workout 5 days a week and do 5/3/1
I went from 74 kg mid April to 80kg now
Eating almost 300g carbs but overall calories have been less than 2400 and now mfp says 2700.
I also take 10 grams of creatine and just started that in April as well.
So is 6 kg (12 lbs) normal? My abs are still visible and waist hasn't increased that much but I "feel" like obliques have gained fat.?
Should cut calories again?
I'm also getting mixed results from TDEE some say 2700-some 2900?
Im 5'10, 80kg now and desk jockey, I walk doggo around 3-4 days a week at 5.6 km/h avg speed for 2km and 5 days a week I workout as well.
Your weight change over time is your guide to what is maintenance calories for you - not calculators. If you are still gaining weight you are in a surplus not at maintenance calories.
The creatine could have contributed to a water weight gain though.
(10g dosage is very high by the way, probably at least double what you need. The extra over what you can absorb doesn't do anything positive for you.)
If you want to lose weight then you need to reduce your calories, whether that's from carbs or not is personal preference.4 -
@viren19890viren19890 wrote: »I didn't get any definite response so I thought I'd post this here. Please forgive me if this is against rules or what not.
Hello,
I was on CICO for about 15 months and dropped 30 kg.
Last three months I did less than 50 grams of carbs.
Now I wanted to gain lean muscle so I ramped calories to maintenance levels as shown by mfp at 2400 (non tdee)
I workout 5 days a week and do 5/3/1
I went from 74 kg mid April to 80kg now
Eating almost 300g carbs but overall calories have been less than 2400 and now mfp says 2700.
I also take 10 grams of creatine and just started that in April as well.
So is 6 kg (12 lbs) normal? My abs are still visible and waist hasn't increased that much but I "feel" like obliques have gained fat.?
Should cut calories again?
I'm also getting mixed results from TDEE some say 2700-some 2900?
Im 5'10, 80kg now and desk jockey, I walk doggo around 3-4 days a week at 5.6 km/h avg speed for 2km and 5 days a week I workout as well.
Your weight change over time is your guide to what is maintenance calories for you - not calculators. If you are still gaining weight you are in a surplus not at maintenance calories.
The creatine could have contributed to a water weight gain though.
(10g dosage is very high by the way, probably at least double what you need. The extra over what you can absorb doesn't do anything positive for you.)
If you want to lose weight then you need to reduce your calories, whether that's from carbs or not is personal preference.
On the box it says 10g, I've always taken 5g in the past but the box said twice a day lol so I thought maybe I've been taking less and doubled it.
I'll reduce it and I guess I'll reduce the calories as well.
Is there a normal weight gain range after a diet break? I gained like 12 lbs within month and a half. Three things changed. Carbs went from lower than 50g to 300 g, creatine and calories higher.1 -
Normal weight fluctuations vary enormously between individuals - I jump about several pounds a day, my colleague is virtually identical every single day.
Yesterday I varied throughout the day by six pounds but from yesterday morning to this morning I was almost the same. You need to find out what is "normal" for you.
But remember that wasn't a normal month where as you added creatine (which can add water weight) and went from low to high carb - carbs (glycogen) binds with water as well as the calorie jump.2 -
Normal weight fluctuations vary enormously between individuals - I jump about several pounds a day, my colleague is virtually identical every single day.
Yesterday I varied throughout the day by six pounds but from yesterday morning to this morning I was almost the same. You need to find out what is "normal" for you.
But remember that wasn't a normal month where as you added creatine (which can add water weight) and went from low to high carb - carbs (glycogen) binds with water as well as the calorie jump.
I've jumped as much as 8lbs in water weight just by upping carbs and adding creatine back in. Just sayin'....
Plus I fluctuate throughout the day as well, you just need a good baseline to (as said above) figure out what is normal for you.
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So it seems that 12lbs could just be water retention and creatine.
Since my waist size is identical. It's just a mental thing I guess seeing the number jump so drastically lol. I've also stopped checking weight every week rather I'll do it every 14 days so I can gain some lean muscle mass. I felt tiny at 74kg.
Thanks both of you2 -
Hi Everyone! So...wow lol I've gone through 61 pages of this thread, and I have to say, there is a lot of good information here! Thanks for everyone who has contributed!!! At the moment, I am in a cut, as I am trying to lose 7 pounds I put on. I'm about half way there. I'm 5'7, and once I hit 130 again, I want to recomp.
My question is, do you think doing HIIT 3-4 times a week would be enough for some recomp as the program I use does incorporate strength training via free weight and TRX? Or, if I did that and ate at maintenance, would I gain weight or lose muscle?
I understand should HITT x4/wk be ok from a program perspective, the recomp would be slower, and honestly, I'm ok with that. I don't want to have huge muscle gains, just looking to lean out and gain some muscle while decreasing body fat.
Thanks everyone!
Edited to add: Does anyone seem to gain weight when they transition to maintenance? When I was 130 back in Jan, I was eating at a small deficit (roughly 1700) while performing HIIT 3-4 times week. Then in Feb, I had an injury and was out of the gym for about 2 months. I still tracked my cals, and tried to be especially careful considering I wasn't working out. Some days I would go above my old TDEE of 1700, but would never exceed 1800, which would have been below my maintenance. Despite all that, I gained the 7lbs I am trying to lose now. So, I'm nervous about gaining weight again once switching to maintenance. Does anyone have any insight into why I gained weight at that time? I bet the answer is simple, but something I failed to account for, as scientifically, it should be impossible to gain 7lbs in 2 months as I absolutely was not eating a 3500 cal suprplus above my BMR.1 -
Just to address your weight gain.
You were in a small deficit at 1700 while working out and your TDEE should have reflected the exercise calories.
Once you stopped working out because of injury you were no longer burning the same amount of calories. Your intake would have been your NEAT as per MFP sedentary, or a recalculated TDEE to suit your injured activity level.
Your original small deficit was not big enough to cover your decrease in activity, hence the weight gain.
As for doing Hiit instead of a lifting programme, it would depend on how you planned on increasing the muscle resistance/ volume over time.
A proven progressive compound lifting programme has this built in so ones muscles are always being challenged by either an increase in weights or reps. If your programme does not have this you will progress until you stall out and have to find another programme, or continue with the programme you are doing but just maintaining the composition you have achieved thus far. (jmho).
Cheers, h.
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I'll add too that since the HIIT term has become fadish and slapped on all manner of workouts that aren't really HIIT - it really depends if you would actually be overloading your muscles such that the body feels the need to build more (recomp) - or merely improve your aerobic conditioning for burning carbs faster to handle an anaerobic workout.
HIIT, or any intervals like it, are a change to a cardio aerobic workout. Doing it so hard and like lifting, it's as close to lifting as you can get for your sport for cardio.
Many HIIT programs could never be done aerobically - so it's not High Intensity in comparison, it's a movement that would always be intense anyway.
Many HIIT programs I've seen are merely circuit training type things with such minimal rests that it makes it difficult.
That's not an overload on the muscles by weight, but rather by lack of oxygen usually, because performed anaerobically. At first for short while it might be by weight, but quickly switches over.
Do push ups holding your breath, and you'll do less than if you breathed, and it'll feel harder sooner in comparison.
That's what many of the fad HIIT programs basically do - do this resistance exercise with light weight fast, take minimal break, move on to the next one.
So while recomp is slow anyway, and that's using a proper progressive strength training program - TRX and fad HIIT workouts would be even slower, and probably stop being muscle building and become anaerobic improvement workouts.4 -
middlehaitch wrote: »Just to address your weight gain.
You were in a small deficit at 1700 while working out and your TDEE should have reflected the exercise calories.
Once you stopped working out because of injury you were no longer burning the same amount of calories. Your intake would have been your NEAT as per MFP sedentary, or a recalculated TDEE to suit your injured activity level.
Your original small deficit was not big enough to cover your decrease in activity, hence the weight gain.
As for doing Hiit instead of a lifting programme, it would depend on how you planned on increasing the muscle resistance/ volume over time.
A proven progressive compound lifting programme has this built in so ones muscles are always being challenged by either an increase in weights or reps. If your programme does not have this you will progress until you stall out and have to find another programme, or continue with the programme you are doing but just maintaining the composition you have achieved thus far. (jmho).
Cheers, h.
....LOL I knew it was something blatantly obvious that I was just overlooking. Duh! I totally should have recalculated my TDEE based on my decreased activity level. This would have impacted my maintenance calories as
well, reducing them, so I probably was eating at a surplus that contributed to a weight gain. Next time, should there be a next time (fingers crossed to no injuries), I should probably just recalculate my maintenance in consideration of having low activity, and go from there.
Thank goodness you replied, because that was bugging me for the LONGEST time! Thank you!
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I'll add too that since the HIIT term has become fadish and slapped on all manner of workouts that aren't really HIIT - it really depends if you would actually be overloading your muscles such that the body feels the need to build more (recomp) - or merely improve your aerobic conditioning for burning carbs faster to handle an anaerobic workout.
HIIT, or any intervals like it, are a change to a cardio aerobic workout. Doing it so hard and like lifting, it's as close to lifting as you can get for your sport for cardio.
Many HIIT programs could never be done aerobically - so it's not High Intensity in comparison, it's a movement that would always be intense anyway.
Many HIIT programs I've seen are merely circuit training type things with such minimal rests that it makes it difficult.
That's not an overload on the muscles by weight, but rather by lack of oxygen usually, because performed anaerobically. At first for short while it might be by weight, but quickly switches over.
Do push ups holding your breath, and you'll do less than if you breathed, and it'll feel harder sooner in comparison.
That's what many of the fad HIIT programs basically do - do this resistance exercise with light weight fast, take minimal break, move on to the next one.
So while recomp is slow anyway, and that's using a proper progressive strength training program - TRX and fad HIIT workouts would be even slower, and probably stop being muscle building and become anaerobic improvement workouts.
Thanks so much for your well written response! So, in my current program, we do have the ability to increase weights. I started at 8 lbs weights, and have moved to 15 - 20 (depending on the exercise) over the course of a year. I guess I'm wondering if that is enough, or if I should a) add more strength training in my free time in addition to HIIT (since I enjoy doing it) or b) reduce the number of times a week I do HIIT and replace it with weights. I just don't want to get to a point where I am super bulky, which I don't think will happen at maintenance cals, gain weight, or start something I don't feel I'll be able to sustain long term. I'm just not a person who will be happy going to the gym 6-7 days a week O_o lol so many I don't wannas!
Edit: Sorry, I actually did have 1 more question *blush* So during maintenance what happens if you have a surplus of calories every once in a while. I don't plan cheat meals, but I know I'm not going to be perfectly hitting my cals everyday of the year - life and celebrations happen. When in a deficit, eventually you lose any weight (either water or actual) from those types of meals. During maintenance, how do you prevent weight gain from an occasional surplus if not in a deficit?0 -
That is rather slow progress on weight increase for a year, but considering you are using them in what is likely an anaerobic cardio workout, probably about right.
That could have required no extra muscle built, merely fully engaging the muscle you got, plus form improvements.
If no extra muscle is needed, there is no recomp occurring.
You could do some strength training that is progressive - and throw that HIIT (it actually isn't HIIT then no matter what they slap in the name) as workout right afterwards with whatever strength you got left.
You won't be able to get bulky - let alone super bulky.
Doing lifting wouldn't require going 6-7 days a week, actually less often then current possibly - because unless there is recovery to actually rebuild and stronger - the workouts will stop being good enough to require it.
So maybe 3 x weekly with full-body program - put the intense cardio right after. In-between days can be walking for recovery and fun.
The more you move away from a good progressive lifting routine - the less chance of recomp.2 -
Utterly confused by this whole recomp thing. I'm happily maintaining 48kg, 20% body fat but still have some to lose. Eating around 1500 cals a day, training 5/6 days a week. Help!!!!!!!!!!0
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Utterly confused by this whole recomp thing. I'm happily maintaining 48kg, 20% body fat but still have some to lose. Eating around 1500 cals a day, training 5/6 days a week. Help!!!!!!!!!!
What is confusing about eating at maintenance and training?
I'm confused why you are confused!
What do you believe would stop your body from reacting and adapting to a training stimulus?0 -
Utterly confused by this whole recomp thing. I'm happily maintaining 48kg, 20% body fat but still have some to lose. Eating around 1500 cals a day, training 5/6 days a week. Help!!!!!!!!!!
What is confusing about eating at maintenance and training?
I'm confused why you are confused!
What do you believe would stop your body from reacting and adapting to a training stimulus?
Confused is my general state at the moment
So it would seem I am already eating at maintenance as I'm not losing weight but losing body fat.
I'm training hard, as always, and just wondered whether my increased calories would hinder my losing body fat...... guess I've answered my own question.1 -
Utterly confused by this whole recomp thing. I'm happily maintaining 48kg, 20% body fat but still have some to lose. Eating around 1500 cals a day, training 5/6 days a week. Help!!!!!!!!!!
What is confusing about eating at maintenance and training?
I'm confused why you are confused!
What do you believe would stop your body from reacting and adapting to a training stimulus?
Confused is my general state at the moment
So it would seem I am already eating at maintenance as I'm not losing weight but losing body fat.
I'm training hard, as always, and just wondered whether my increased calories would hinder my losing body fat...... guess I've answered my own question.
Well if you are eating at maintenance, adding more calories would most likely cause you to gain weight, which you would then be bulking.
What I would ask since you are eating at maintenance, how closely do you track and how consistent? I only ask, because 1500 seems to be a low maintenance. Not that it can't happen, it's more gauging reality.0 -
Utterly confused by this whole recomp thing. I'm happily maintaining 48kg, 20% body fat but still have some to lose. Eating around 1500 cals a day, training 5/6 days a week. Help!!!!!!!!!!
What is confusing about eating at maintenance and training?
I'm confused why you are confused!
What do you believe would stop your body from reacting and adapting to a training stimulus?
Confused is my general state at the moment
So it would seem I am already eating at maintenance as I'm not losing weight but losing body fat.
I'm training hard, as always, and just wondered whether my increased calories would hinder my losing body fat...... guess I've answered my own question.
What will hinder (as in slow rate of progress) is the rate at which you can gain muscle.
As you are female, already lean, already look well trained then you are unlikely to be adding pounds of muscle / losing pounds of fat that quickly.
On the other hand as you already have good muscle definition small changes in body composition will make a really noticeable difference.2 -
That is rather slow progress on weight increase for a year, but considering you are using them in what is likely an anaerobic cardio workout, probably about right.
That could have required no extra muscle built, merely fully engaging the muscle you got, plus form improvements.
If no extra muscle is needed, there is no recomp occurring.
You could do some strength training that is progressive - and throw that HIIT (it actually isn't HIIT then no matter what they slap in the name) as workout right afterwards with whatever strength you got left.
You won't be able to get bulky - let alone super bulky.
Doing lifting wouldn't require going 6-7 days a week, actually less often then current possibly - because unless there is recovery to actually rebuild and stronger - the workouts will stop being good enough to require it.
So maybe 3 x weekly with full-body program - put the intense cardio right after. In-between days can be walking for recovery and fun.
The more you move away from a good progressive lifting routine - the less chance of recomp.
Thanks so much again! Any advice for how to manage maintenance in consideration of times of a calorie surplus? I've been scouring the board, and I can't seem to make sense of how one can ever go over their maintenance cals and expect to maintain weight. With no deficit, how does everyone recover from the occasional splurge?
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You do take a deficit if you go into surplus sometimes.
If you do the weekly avg TDEE method - same amount eaten daily - literally some days you are in deficit, some you are in surplus.
As long as there is overall balance. There is no way possible for you to purposely nail eating daily TDEE anyway, so if you have to go over some weekend, either plan on it by eating less couple days prior and couple days after.
Just don't weigh the morning after surplus, since it's probably water weight and not good indication of what you must do.2 -
You do take a deficit if you go into surplus sometimes.
If you do the weekly avg TDEE method - same amount eaten daily - literally some days you are in deficit, some you are in surplus.
As long as there is overall balance. There is no way possible for you to purposely nail eating daily TDEE anyway, so if you have to go over some weekend, either plan on it by eating less couple days prior and couple days after.
Just don't weigh the morning after surplus, since it's probably water weight and not good indication of what you must do.
It's funny that you said that because that's exactly what I do after a surplus day the next morning. I don't bother to weigh for that same reason.
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