Can't gain muscle on diet. What??
Replies
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You will probably reach a point where lifts start to stall. It will probably be somewhere slightly past the point of muscle growth slowing down because you'll still probably have room to improve from learning.jenniejoy07 wrote: »So, I'm obese (215lbs) and I've been lifting for 2 months now (down 10lbs total)
My bench has gone from 65lb to 85lb and I've seen increases in all lifts. I am eating a significant calorie deficit depending on the amt of exercise I have that day.
Will there be a point in my weight loss where I have to stop increasing the weight I'm able to lift?
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jenniejoy07 wrote: »So, I'm obese (215lbs) and I've been lifting for 2 months now (down 10lbs total)
My bench has gone from 65lb to 85lb and I've seen increases in all lifts. I am eating a significant calorie deficit depending on the amt of exercise I have that day.
Will there be a point in my weight loss where I have to stop increasing the weight I'm able to lift?
Yes, I have lost 15 pounds on my working bench press numbers from when I weighed 250 to 225 pounds. It is what it is. That is why it is important to stick to your goals. Gaining muscle and losing weight are 2 separate goals.
Lose the weight, get down to your goal weight and lift weights while you do it and you will just have to accept the fact that you will lose some strength along the way. It is no big deal.0 -
so if you eat at a deficit and lift weights you will never get any bigger muscles? but if you eat more to gain muscle wouldnt you also gain back the fat? I am curious as I am trying to get rid of the fat around my middle but I lift weights because I also want to gain muscle. obviously I am not doing too good.
yes, if you run a bulk you will gain fat and muscle. Typical ration is 1:1 ..so 10 pounds gained will equal 5 pounds of muscle and 5 pounds of fat. You then run a cut to cut the fat off and preserve muscle.
I've seen this iterated a million times here but for some reason, this is the first time it 100% clicked.
Anyway, carry on as y'all were.0 -
It's simple. Muscles need calories to grow. When you eat at a deficit, you're not supplying your muscles with enough calories to stimulate any noticeable amount of growth.
Gaining strength is not the same as gaining muscle. You can do the former without he latter, which is generally what happens when you strength train while eating at a deficit.
Your muscles might look bigger, but that's only because you're shedding the fat that was covering them up - this is what women like to call "tone," and it's simply a lower body fat percentage. It has nothing to do with muscle growth.
You lift weights while losing weight to maintain your current lean muscle mass, not increase it. That requires eating at least to maintenance, and even that takes forever. This is why people bulk - to gain mass.
Also, do you seriously have that as your profile picture? I can't even...0 -
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Trained athletes eating in a deficit and gaining LBM:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3519021&d=13101931690 -
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Trained athletes eating in a deficit and gaining LBM:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3519021&d=1310193169
Thank you so much. This looks like a paper I was actually looking for a little while ago because of this exact topic.0 -
LyndseyLovesToLift wrote: »
Also, do you seriously have that as your profile picture? I can't even...
Haha! I just didn't want to identify myself. And it was the first innocuous thing I found on my phone lol. I didn't want to look like a noob.
On that account I'm realizing on the fitness side there are things I really don't know much about. Love this community.0 -
PeterJones4 wrote: »Trained athletes eating in a deficit and gaining LBM:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3519021&d=1310193169
Old news, best to stay current with science. A post from 2012 from heybales
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/447514/athletes-can-gain-muscle-while-losing-fat-on-deficit-diet
Not old to everyone but thanks for playing.0 -
PeterJones4 wrote: »Trained athletes eating in a deficit and gaining LBM:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3519021&d=1310193169
Old news, best to stay current with science. A post from 2012 from heybales
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/447514/athletes-can-gain-muscle-while-losing-fat-on-deficit-diet
Not old to everyone but thanks for playing.
If you haven't seen it, it's new to you.0 -
PeterJones4 wrote: »Trained athletes eating in a deficit and gaining LBM:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3519021&d=1310193169
Old news, best to stay current with science. A post from 2012 from heybales
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/447514/athletes-can-gain-muscle-while-losing-fat-on-deficit-diet
Not old to everyone but thanks for playing.
If you haven't seen it, it's new to you.
Plus, who cares? Once a study is posted, it can't ever be posted again? Is that a new rule?
It is relevant regardless on if it has been posted before.0 -
PeterJones4 wrote: »Trained athletes eating in a deficit and gaining LBM:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3519021&d=1310193169
Old news, best to stay current with science. A post from 2012 from heybales
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/447514/athletes-can-gain-muscle-while-losing-fat-on-deficit-diet
Not old to everyone but thanks for playing.
If you haven't seen it, it's new to you.
Exactly, and you'll note that I've attached the full text
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Trained athletes eating in a deficit and gaining LBM:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3519021&d=1310193169
Thank you so much. This looks like a paper I was actually looking for a little while ago because of this exact topic.
I'm actually going to look for a few more of these. I'm aware of one or two others but I'll have to go digging. Will likely compile them into one post or a blog entry eventually.0 -
Are we really going to say a study published in January 2012 is that much newer than one published in October 2011?0
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Ha. I am completely confused.
Also confused by how PeterJones4 posted it when his account was deactivated after his first post in this thread.
I think that all of the MFP crazytown hijinks have fried my brain today.0 -
Trained athletes eating in a deficit and gaining LBM:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3519021&d=1310193169
Thank you so much. This looks like a paper I was actually looking for a little while ago because of this exact topic.
I'm actually going to look for a few more of these. I'm aware of one or two others but I'll have to go digging. Will likely compile them into one post or a blog entry eventually.
Helms
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/257350851_A_Systematic_Review_of_Dietary_Protein_During_Caloric_Restriction_in_Resistance_Trained_Lean_Athletes_A_Case_for_Higher_Intakes0 -
Ha. I am completely confused.
Also confused by how PeterJones4 posted it when his account was deactivated after his first post in this thread.
I think that all of the MFP crazytown hijinks have fried my brain today.
Yeah I noticed that too about the deactivated account.
The two studies are the same, the thread that PeterJones4 linked (haybales thread) was one linking the abstract from PubMed. The attachment I linked from bb.com is the pdf (full text) version of the same study.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Trained athletes eating in a deficit and gaining LBM:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3519021&d=1310193169
Thank you so much. This looks like a paper I was actually looking for a little while ago because of this exact topic.
I'm actually going to look for a few more of these. I'm aware of one or two others but I'll have to go digging. Will likely compile them into one post or a blog entry eventually.
Helms
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/257350851_A_Systematic_Review_of_Dietary_Protein_During_Caloric_Restriction_in_Resistance_Trained_Lean_Athletes_A_Case_for_Higher_Intakes
Thanks!0 -
discretekim wrote: »I've seen this a few times today. It makes no sense. I am losing weight and I know for a fact I am getting stronger. My muscles seem to be growing too getting larger and more firm.
Why is this a common idea? Is there some research on this??
So there's a few things for purposes of clarity here:
Strength adaptations aren't necessarily an indicator of hypertrophy (muscle growth). There's a big neurological component to gaining strength an additionally when we measure strength in a gym we are typically measuring it in the context of executing a skill, so for example measuring the strength in the squat consists of measuring your ability to execute the skill of squatting. My point is that there is a skill component as well.
So there certainly are cases where people get stronger without necessarily gaining muscle.
However, it's also true that people like to take grey area concepts and turn them into black and white concepts and in the case of "you can't gain muscle in a deficit" that's exactly what has happened in my opinion.
There are circumstances where it's possible to gain muscle mass in a deficit. If you're new to lifting, if you're over-fat, if you're a previously experienced athlete returning to training, those changes go up substantially.
But it's not a black and white scenario where you definitely can't gain muscle without a surplus of calories.
+1
There's also the disagreement with what constitutes "gaining muscle". Adding 4-8 lb of muscle is doable for many (most?) people while in a calorie deficit. And for many people, that's all they ever want or need. But the discussion tends to be defined by the goals of power lifters/body builders, so the average person is often misled.
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Ha. I am completely confused.
Also confused by how PeterJones4 posted it when his account was deactivated after his first post in this thread.
I think that all of the MFP crazytown hijinks have fried my brain today.
peter jones 4 is acutely PU_239 it appears the mods finally cracked down or he figured that out and deactivated his other account...
either way it is a win.0 -
There is a limit to the total amount of lean mass anyone can put on their body regardless of calories consumed. This limit changes with use of anabolic-androgenic steroids and there are mathematical formulas available to calculate an estimate of this max for steroid-free athletes as well as steroid users.
As you become more trained and closer to the maximum for your body, it becomes more difficult to increase muscle because you are reaching the limit. The amount of lean muscle attainable is also positively correlated with total body weight and linked to gender and age. These related factors are not always considered when arguing whether or not a caloric deficit can produce lean muscle mass, but they do provide foundation for the argument that new lifters and those with less muscle mass to start are able to build more easily than those reaching the maximum.0 -
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PeterJones4 wrote: »
False, even if I was Pu, I would still be here right, calling out the non sense you guys preach. So you're right, it would be a win win for Pu, if I was Pu.
Ha. I am completely confused.
Also confused by how PeterJones4 posted it when his account was deactivated after his first post in this thread.
I think that all of the MFP crazytown hijinks have fried my brain today.
peter jones 4 is acutely PU_239 it appears the mods finally cracked down or he figured that out and deactivated his other account...
either way it is a win.
What would that nonsense be again?0 -
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I've decided since no description was given overfat means this: lower than average ratio of muscle to fat based than average for height and weight and gender.0
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Neuromuscular adaptivity. One can get stronger while losing weight. If you've not exercised before or are returning to exercise after a layoff, the muscle get "swole" and harder due to more water in them.discretekim wrote: »I've seen this a few times today. It makes no sense. I am losing weight and I know for a fact I am getting stronger. My muscles seem to be growing too getting larger and more firm.
Why is this a common idea? Is there some research on this??
Building muscle doesn't come from nothing. It has to come from material that can build it and a supply of calories high enough to support hypertrophy............hence a surplus.
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If you lift while in deficit and you're not obese (higher chance to build muscle due to reserve amount of calories), the chances of building any muscles are really really low.so if you eat at a deficit and lift weights you will never get any bigger muscles? but if you eat more to gain muscle wouldnt you also gain back the fat? I am curious as I am trying to get rid of the fat around my middle but I lift weights because I also want to gain muscle. obviously I am not doing too good.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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