Clean Eating Question
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Honestly all of these replies are funny
I get it. Some people say they are feeling attacked and people just keep piling it on. I don't get it. I hate "diet" myths too. I'm sure there are plenty of threads to refer people to when they ask such questions. Might be a better way instead of rehashing things over and over
a lot of people would prefer to do that but many threads here get locked or deleted (and the thread sticky functionality recently got broken in an "update") so it is difficult to point people to the right info. and so the same questions keep getting asked all of the time as well
Makes sense
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Telling people they don't have to give up anything, just focus on the calorie goal, and make smarter choices to get there, is the nicest thing I can think of to tell newbies. Plus, it's the truth, for whatever that's worth.
I disagree that it's the truth. From the typical North American starting point of over-eating on SAD, it is not even remotely truthful to say they "don't have to give up anything" to meet a calorie deficit. They have to give up a LOT of food - because eating a LOT of food is where they're starting from.
Going from 2L of Coke a day to one glass of Coke a day is a *much* bigger step than going from one glass of Coke a day to none. And in fact going from 2L of Coke a day to none at all will be *much* easier for a large percentage of people than "only" reducing to a glass a day.
Let's just be honest about it - going from the SAD that got you fat to a long term caloric deficit means giving up a lot of things, either by significantly restricting, or completely eliminating.
Pretending otherwise doesn't help anybody, and causes a lot of grief for some.
Well, I guess maybe we know different people. My family, friends, and co-workers are constantly trying to quit soda, quit junk food, quit fast food. They are miserable for the two or three weeks it lasts, and then they give up, do a little emotional over-eating, and end up weighing 5 lbs more than when they started. Over and over and over again. I personally believe that it is easier to learn moderation than to quit anything cold turkey, but I can accept I could be wrong.
Regardless, it IS the truth that they don't HAVE to give up anything. I guess for some people giving some things up might be easier, but at least in my personal experience that isn't the norm. Maybe I just know a bunch of odd people!0 -
Honestly all of these replies are funny I get it. Some people say they are feeling attacked and people just keep piling it on. I don't get it. I hate "diet" myths too. I'm sure there are plenty of threads to refer people to when they ask such questions. Might be a better way instead of rehashing things over and over
a lot of people would prefer to do that but many threads here get locked or deleted (and the thread sticky functionality recently got broken in an "update") so it is difficult to point people to the right info. and so the same questions keep getting asked all of the time as well
Also, a lot of people either don't read recommended stickies at all and then post questions, or only read part of the sticky and then post more questions, or misunderstand the sticky and then post more questions, or think that they are the special snowflake exception to the sticky and then post more questions...you get the picture.
Even though it seems (and is) repetitive, I appreciate the patience demonstrated by the 'veterans' here who are willing to come back and answer the same questions over and over. Yes, sometimes it's a little more on the 'tough' side of the 'tough love' equation. And sometimes they get impatient or frustrated and cave in to sarcasm or impatience (Oh nooooes, they're human!). But for the most part, they seem to be on these boards because they want to see others succeed and want to try to keep newcomers from getting sucked in to scams and diet 'miracles'.
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Honestly all of these replies are funny I get it. Some people say they are feeling attacked and people just keep piling it on. I don't get it. I hate "diet" myths too. I'm sure there are plenty of threads to refer people to when they ask such questions. Might be a better way instead of rehashing things over and over
a lot of people would prefer to do that but many threads here get locked or deleted (and the thread sticky functionality recently got broken in an "update") so it is difficult to point people to the right info. and so the same questions keep getting asked all of the time as well
Also, a lot of people either don't read recommended stickies at all and then post questions, or only read part of the sticky and then post more questions, or misunderstand the sticky and then post more questions, or think that they are the special snowflake exception to the sticky and then post more questions...you get the picture.
Even though it seems (and is) repetitive, I appreciate the patience demonstrated by the 'veterans' here who are willing to come back and answer the same questions over and over. Yes, sometimes it's a little more on the 'tough' side of the 'tough love' equation. And sometimes they get impatient or frustrated and cave in to sarcasm or impatience (Oh nooooes, they're human!). But for the most part, they seem to be on these boards because they want to see others succeed and want to try to keep newcomers from getting sucked in to scams and diet 'miracles'.
yeah and then of course many people (myself included, sometimes) just read the OP and post a reply without reading through the rest of the thread (especially if the thread is already long). so the appropriate advice or whatever may have already been given or the question already re-stated/re-phrased, etc., making that new reply no longer salient
honestly the worst people for me on MFP are the ones who dogpile in the "mean people" threads and take any and every opportunity they can to start bashing us "mean people". it is unfortunate that our advice offends some people, but that does not make it any less true or useful0 -
I personally believe that it is easier to learn moderation than to quit anything cold turkey, but I can accept I could be wrong.
I used to think so, too. Then one my best friends ended up in drug rehab - which completely changed my perspective.
There are people for whom "moderation" is the best possible advice. But there are also a lot of people for whom that is the worst possible advice.Regardless, it IS the truth that they don't HAVE to give up anything.
Depends on the person. So, no, it is not a universal truth IMO.0 -
I personally believe that it is easier to learn moderation than to quit anything cold turkey, but I can accept I could be wrong.
I used to think so, too. Then one my best friends ended up in drug rehab - which completely changed my perspective.
There are people for whom "moderation" is the best possible advice. But there are also a lot of people for whom that is the worst possible advice.Regardless, it IS the truth that they don't HAVE to give up anything.
Depends on the person. So, no, it is not a universal truth.
I do understand where you are coming from, I know people who have gone to rehab too
but we are talking about food here, not physically addictive substances. so the comparison is a bit fallacious. but my intent in saying this is not to turn this into a "sugar addiction" thread. that is just my opinion on the matter0 -
Every time when I read a thread like this I walk away confused after staements like " I don't eat anything that comes in a wrapper or package ".
I wonder where the people who make such statements live. Or don't they eat rice, beans, pasta, legumes and don't they add spices or herbs to your cooking, or use non-processed flour to bake the occasional " clean " cake ? I have lived in 11 countries so far and in my experience beans usually come in a bag, as does rice and flour, pasta is usually sold in a package or bag. Spices and herbs come in a container. Anything else would be against the sanitation laws of many countries. Even when I bought and still buy bulk stuf, it's still put in a bag and not just poured into my pants pocket.
I just don't get why the absence of packaging should make a food item more natural, or better. When I read the above mentioned statement, I always imagine people carrying their stuff home in cupped hands, because any kind of packaging would otherwise make food " bad ".
Processing and packaging are two different things.
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SherryTeach wrote: »My Lays Potato Chips do not contain trans fat.
Did you know that this past Wednesday the American FDA passed a law that all trans fats have to disappear by June 2018 ?
This is mostly because the snack and baked goods industry has not made good on their promise to do away with, or greatly diminish these fats. The FDA mentioned that trans fats are not healthy for human consumption and while not going into great detail, they mentioned that trans fats are toxic and especially bad for people with obesity, diabetes and heart disease.
In the meantime people, just like you, need to read labels and make intelligent choices.
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Ahhhh.....the MFP 'Friday Feeling' is running at full steam today i see
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NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »Ahhhh.....the MFP 'Friday Feeling' is running at full steam today i see
*nods* lol0 -
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asflatasapancake wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »Ahhhh.....the MFP 'Friday Feeling' is running at full steam today i see
Not enough gifs for my tastes, though.
haha we really need stickies to work again
then we need a sticky jpg/gif reaction thread where we stash all of them for quick reference
I'm getting tired of bookmarking gifs 0 -
asflatasapancake wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »Ahhhh.....the MFP 'Friday Feeling' is running at full steam today i see
Not enough gifs for my tastes, though.
haha we really need stickies to work again
then we need a sticky jpg/gif reaction thread where we stash all of them for quick reference
I'm getting tired of bookmarking gifs
Yes the cat gifs! Now my Friday is complete!
Also, good suggestion. But i think we should have complete template threads, so the next time someone posts something like 'what do you guys think of juicing?' (as invariably happens once a week), we can just roll it out, broscience and nonsensical comments and all!! Save us a hell of a lot of time 0 -
It's Friday! Act like it!
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There is nothing wrong with eating clean. There is nothing wrong with asking about eating clean. You will get great results eating clean but keep in mind it's due to a calorie deficit. I eat chicken, eggs, yogurt, almonds and lots of salad. I don't label my lifestyle. I have a treat every now and then now that I have more control over my cravings. I find it hard to see that people are telling noobs ( sorry can't think of a better word) that eating chocolate and chips every day is ok. Sure in moderation it's fine. But as most of us here, we don't have "moderation" under control yet. This is only my second post on this forum. I read it a lot though. There is plenty of attacking going on. The same few people are like vultures flying in a circle waiting for the next unsuspecting victim to wander into their sites. Vultures that have the still bloodied flesh clasped between their claws from their last victim. Whew lol that was dramatic. You know what I mean. It saddens me to see a person who has more than 100 lbs to lose and make a post about how they have finally lost ten lbs. only to have their good feelings smashed by that person who says " good for you but sorry to say that was only water weight." Seriously, that's harsh. It's reality but harsh. Be nice people. We are all battling some of the same demons
Yet another poster who talks about others attacking, yet says way worse things about the people she claims are attacking others.0 -
I personally believe that it is easier to learn moderation than to quit anything cold turkey, but I can accept I could be wrong.
I used to think so, too. Then one my best friends ended up in drug rehab - which completely changed my perspective.
There are people for whom "moderation" is the best possible advice. But there are also a lot of people for whom that is the worst possible advice.Regardless, it IS the truth that they don't HAVE to give up anything.
Depends on the person. So, no, it is not a universal truth.
I do understand where you are coming from, I know people who have gone to rehab too
but we are talking about food here, not physically addictive substances. so the comparison is a bit fallacious. but my intent in saying this is not to turn this into a "sugar addiction" thread. that is just my opinion on the matter
I don't believe the evidence support "sugar addiction".
But there is *plenty* of evidence that a very large proportion of the population manages better with elimination rather than restriction.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I just don't understand why that is so hard for people to understand and why "it's ok to eat chips and ice cream" turns into "you eat nothing but chips and ice cream".
This is really the most puzzling part of this discussion.
No one ever says "eat only chips and ice cream" (or donuts and Twinkies, etc.) and yet we are constantly accused of saying that just for saying it's okay to eat anything in moderation within a balanced, nutrient-rich diet. It's so frustrating and disingenuous.
I am not accusing of that in anyway. If you read the whole forum you would see that.0 -
Every time when I read a thread like this I walk away confused after staements like " I don't eat anything that comes in a wrapper or package ".
I wonder where the people who make such statements live. Or don't they eat rice, beans, pasta, legumes and don't they add spices or herbs to your cooking, or use non-processed flour to bake the occasional " clean " cake ? I have lived in 11 countries so far and in my experience beans usually come in a bag, as does rice and flour, pasta is usually sold in a package or bag. Spices and herbs come in a container. Anything else would be against the sanitation laws of many countries. Even when I bought and still buy bulk stuf, it's still put in a bag and not just poured into my pants pocket.
I just don't get why the absence of packaging should make a food item more natural, or better. When I read the above mentioned statement, I always imagine people carrying their stuff home in cupped hands, because any kind of packaging would otherwise make food " bad ".
Processing and packaging are two different things.
Which is why when you question people, or use the example that lemurcat did up thread about eggs coming in a carton or beef coming in a package - people get defensive and say, "You know what I meant". No, clearly we don't. And fine, but maybe you should say what you mean then... instead of assuming it is implied.
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I personally believe that it is easier to learn moderation than to quit anything cold turkey, but I can accept I could be wrong.
I used to think so, too. Then one my best friends ended up in drug rehab - which completely changed my perspective.
There are people for whom "moderation" is the best possible advice. But there are also a lot of people for whom that is the worst possible advice.Regardless, it IS the truth that they don't HAVE to give up anything.
Depends on the person. So, no, it is not a universal truth.
I do understand where you are coming from, I know people who have gone to rehab too
but we are talking about food here, not physically addictive substances. so the comparison is a bit fallacious. but my intent in saying this is not to turn this into a "sugar addiction" thread. that is just my opinion on the matter
I don't believe the evidence support "sugar addiction".
But there is *plenty* of evidence that a very large proportion of the population manages better with elimination rather than restriction.
I always assumed the opposite but that is an interesting point0 -
BabyPhat90713 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I just don't understand why that is so hard for people to understand and why "it's ok to eat chips and ice cream" turns into "you eat nothing but chips and ice cream".
This is really the most puzzling part of this discussion.
No one ever says "eat only chips and ice cream" (or donuts and Twinkies, etc.) and yet we are constantly accused of saying that just for saying it's okay to eat anything in moderation within a balanced, nutrient-rich diet. It's so frustrating and disingenuous.
I am not accusing of that in anyway. If you read the whole forum you would see that.
You were the one who inferred that people saying there is nothing inherently unhealthy about potato chips or ice cream is equivalent to telling you to stuff your face with them, which is why I think you made this post:BabyPhat90713 wrote: »
Thank you. I feel like I'm being attacked. I never claimed to be an expert. I just want advice. I just don't think stuffing my face with chips and icecream is what they should be telling me0 -
BabyPhat90713 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I just don't understand why that is so hard for people to understand and why "it's ok to eat chips and ice cream" turns into "you eat nothing but chips and ice cream".
This is really the most puzzling part of this discussion.
No one ever says "eat only chips and ice cream" (or donuts and Twinkies, etc.) and yet we are constantly accused of saying that just for saying it's okay to eat anything in moderation within a balanced, nutrient-rich diet. It's so frustrating and disingenuous.
I am not accusing of that in anyway. If you read the whole forum you would see that.
You were the one who inferred that people saying there is nothing inherently unhealthy about potato chips or ice cream is equivalent to telling you to stuff your face with them, which is why I think you made this post:BabyPhat90713 wrote: »
Thank you. I feel like I'm being attacked. I never claimed to be an expert. I just want advice. I just don't think stuffing my face with chips and icecream is what they should be telling me
BOOM
thanks for going back and finding that because I didn't feel like digging through all 9 pages but I knew it was there lol
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Every time when I read a thread like this I walk away confused after staements like " I don't eat anything that comes in a wrapper or package ".
I wonder where the people who make such statements live. Or don't they eat rice, beans, pasta, legumes and don't they add spices or herbs to your cooking, or use non-processed flour to bake the occasional " clean " cake ? I have lived in 11 countries so far and in my experience beans usually come in a bag, as does rice and flour, pasta is usually sold in a package or bag. Spices and herbs come in a container. Anything else would be against the sanitation laws of many countries. Even when I bought and still buy bulk stuf, it's still put in a bag and not just poured into my pants pocket.
I just don't get why the absence of packaging should make a food item more natural, or better. When I read the above mentioned statement, I always imagine people carrying their stuff home in cupped hands, because any kind of packaging would otherwise make food " bad ".
Processing and packaging are two different things.
Which is why when you question people, or use the example that lemurcat did up thread about eggs coming in a carton or beef coming in a package - people get defensive and say, "You know what I meant". No, clearly we don't. And fine, but maybe you should say what you mean then... instead of assuming it is implied.
It's the same problem that we run into when people say that you should only shop the perimeter of the grocery store. It sounds good, and I get the basic intention, but anyone who actually tried to stick with that would miss a whole lot of really great (and traditionally clean) foods. And we've seen enough crazy things on these forums to know that someone is out there who will take this advice and try to apply it 100%.
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diannethegeek wrote: »Every time when I read a thread like this I walk away confused after staements like " I don't eat anything that comes in a wrapper or package ".
I wonder where the people who make such statements live. Or don't they eat rice, beans, pasta, legumes and don't they add spices or herbs to your cooking, or use non-processed flour to bake the occasional " clean " cake ? I have lived in 11 countries so far and in my experience beans usually come in a bag, as does rice and flour, pasta is usually sold in a package or bag. Spices and herbs come in a container. Anything else would be against the sanitation laws of many countries. Even when I bought and still buy bulk stuf, it's still put in a bag and not just poured into my pants pocket.
I just don't get why the absence of packaging should make a food item more natural, or better. When I read the above mentioned statement, I always imagine people carrying their stuff home in cupped hands, because any kind of packaging would otherwise make food " bad ".
Processing and packaging are two different things.
Which is why when you question people, or use the example that lemurcat did up thread about eggs coming in a carton or beef coming in a package - people get defensive and say, "You know what I meant". No, clearly we don't. And fine, but maybe you should say what you mean then... instead of assuming it is implied.
It's the same problem that we run into when people say that you should only shop the perimeter of the grocery store. It sounds good, and I get the basic intention, but anyone who actually tried to stick with that would miss a whole lot of really great (and traditionally clean) foods. And we've seen enough crazy things on these forums to know that someone is out there who will take this advice and try to apply it 100%.
Here's a thought....
If consumers are being told to shop the perimeter of the grocery store because that's where the healthy foods are, and everyone knows (at least I do) that companies can pay for placement in the stores, why wouldn't Big Processed Food pay to just put Evil Easy Mac and Horrific Hamburger Helper on the edges, and turn that whole theory upside down...
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diannethegeek wrote: »Every time when I read a thread like this I walk away confused after staements like " I don't eat anything that comes in a wrapper or package ".
I wonder where the people who make such statements live. Or don't they eat rice, beans, pasta, legumes and don't they add spices or herbs to your cooking, or use non-processed flour to bake the occasional " clean " cake ? I have lived in 11 countries so far and in my experience beans usually come in a bag, as does rice and flour, pasta is usually sold in a package or bag. Spices and herbs come in a container. Anything else would be against the sanitation laws of many countries. Even when I bought and still buy bulk stuf, it's still put in a bag and not just poured into my pants pocket.
I just don't get why the absence of packaging should make a food item more natural, or better. When I read the above mentioned statement, I always imagine people carrying their stuff home in cupped hands, because any kind of packaging would otherwise make food " bad ".
Processing and packaging are two different things.
Which is why when you question people, or use the example that lemurcat did up thread about eggs coming in a carton or beef coming in a package - people get defensive and say, "You know what I meant". No, clearly we don't. And fine, but maybe you should say what you mean then... instead of assuming it is implied.
It's the same problem that we run into when people say that you should only shop the perimeter of the grocery store. It sounds good, and I get the basic intention, but anyone who actually tried to stick with that would miss a whole lot of really great (and traditionally clean) foods. And we've seen enough crazy things on these forums to know that someone is out there who will take this advice and try to apply it 100%.
Here's a thought....
If consumers are being told to shop the perimeter of the grocery store because that's where the healthy foods are, and everyone knows (at least I do) that companies can pay for placement in the stores, why wouldn't Big Processed Food pay to just put Evil Easy Mac and Horrific Hamburger Helper on the edges, and turn that whole theory upside down...
your logic is *kitten* terrifying0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »Every time when I read a thread like this I walk away confused after staements like " I don't eat anything that comes in a wrapper or package ".
I wonder where the people who make such statements live. Or don't they eat rice, beans, pasta, legumes and don't they add spices or herbs to your cooking, or use non-processed flour to bake the occasional " clean " cake ? I have lived in 11 countries so far and in my experience beans usually come in a bag, as does rice and flour, pasta is usually sold in a package or bag. Spices and herbs come in a container. Anything else would be against the sanitation laws of many countries. Even when I bought and still buy bulk stuf, it's still put in a bag and not just poured into my pants pocket.
I just don't get why the absence of packaging should make a food item more natural, or better. When I read the above mentioned statement, I always imagine people carrying their stuff home in cupped hands, because any kind of packaging would otherwise make food " bad ".
Processing and packaging are two different things.
Which is why when you question people, or use the example that lemurcat did up thread about eggs coming in a carton or beef coming in a package - people get defensive and say, "You know what I meant". No, clearly we don't. And fine, but maybe you should say what you mean then... instead of assuming it is implied.
It's the same problem that we run into when people say that you should only shop the perimeter of the grocery store. It sounds good, and I get the basic intention, but anyone who actually tried to stick with that would miss a whole lot of really great (and traditionally clean) foods. And we've seen enough crazy things on these forums to know that someone is out there who will take this advice and try to apply it 100%.
Here's a thought....
If consumers are being told to shop the perimeter of the grocery store because that's where the healthy foods are, and everyone knows (at least I do) that companies can pay for placement in the stores, why wouldn't Big Processed Food pay to just put Evil Easy Mac and Horrific Hamburger Helper on the edges, and turn that whole theory upside down...
your logic is *kitten* terrifying
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diannethegeek wrote: »Every time when I read a thread like this I walk away confused after staements like " I don't eat anything that comes in a wrapper or package ".
I wonder where the people who make such statements live. Or don't they eat rice, beans, pasta, legumes and don't they add spices or herbs to your cooking, or use non-processed flour to bake the occasional " clean " cake ? I have lived in 11 countries so far and in my experience beans usually come in a bag, as does rice and flour, pasta is usually sold in a package or bag. Spices and herbs come in a container. Anything else would be against the sanitation laws of many countries. Even when I bought and still buy bulk stuf, it's still put in a bag and not just poured into my pants pocket.
I just don't get why the absence of packaging should make a food item more natural, or better. When I read the above mentioned statement, I always imagine people carrying their stuff home in cupped hands, because any kind of packaging would otherwise make food " bad ".
Processing and packaging are two different things.
Which is why when you question people, or use the example that lemurcat did up thread about eggs coming in a carton or beef coming in a package - people get defensive and say, "You know what I meant". No, clearly we don't. And fine, but maybe you should say what you mean then... instead of assuming it is implied.
It's the same problem that we run into when people say that you should only shop the perimeter of the grocery store. It sounds good, and I get the basic intention, but anyone who actually tried to stick with that would miss a whole lot of really great (and traditionally clean) foods. And we've seen enough crazy things on these forums to know that someone is out there who will take this advice and try to apply it 100%.
Here's a thought....
If consumers are being told to shop the perimeter of the grocery store because that's where the healthy foods are, and everyone knows (at least I do) that companies can pay for placement in the stores, why wouldn't Big Processed Food pay to just put Evil Easy Mac and Horrific Hamburger Helper on the edges, and turn that whole theory upside down...
The perimeter of our store got microwaveable hamburgers and hotdogs and all that stuff. It's refrigerated, so...0
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