NSV - Ladies, why do you get mad when this happens to you?

ncl1313

But, for a woman to have a nice chest, backside, legs...whatever... it is still an accomplishment for her. She wouldn't get many of those looks/compliments without good hygiene and being reasonably fit.

As a woman with an "ample rack", I can tell you with certainty that it doesn't matter if I am fit or fat, dressed up or down, clean or unwashed, men leer at the girls on pretty much all occasions, and it is very annoying. There's a huge difference between a man (or woman) glancing and then looking away and a person who just stares and either doesn't realize or doesn't care about how rude they are being. My husband can look all he wants. It doesn't even always bother me when I catch my male friends looking, but I am comfortable enough to call them out when it happens. I don't care how attractive the "looker" is, or if I'm wearing a low-cut shirt (I only don't have cleavage if I'm wearing a turtleneck), it's really not comfortable to be ogled like that. especially by a stranger or coworker. What if that woman would've had her gaze squarely on your package the entire conversation? Awkward...

ldrosophila

this thread confirms it. Women are weird.

this thread confirms it. That bent Y chromosome makes men denser than a loaf of 12 grain bread.

rml_16

this thread confirms it. Women are weird.

this tread confirms it. That bent Y chromosome makes men denser than a loaf of 12 grain bread.

You have to consider the source with that comment.

ladytinkerbell99

Thanks for your thoughts Dancingonstar,

I realize muscles are more valued by most ppl on a guy rather than a woman, But, for a woman to have a nice chest, backside, legs...whatever... it is still an accomplishment for her. She wouldn't get many of those looks/compliments without good hygiene and being reasonably fit.

I can see how statements about your appearance from a person you don't know/trust can be scary for a woman, more so than for a man. And I know appearance compliments can be used to demean a woman or even a man. But in this case, she wasn't going to assault me and wasn't going to propose an affair. If she couldn't pay close attention to what I was saying about which end of the trail I started, I can totally forgive her in exchange for the compliment she paid me.

Actually, I am surprised there aren't a few women who would say: "Yeah, I get a total rush when I know a guy has hard time taking his eyes of my figure."

Totally, a man's perspective. :flowerforyou:

lithezebra

Getting complimented on your arms, that you've been working at the gym, is equivalent to being told that you look beautiful or that you've lost weight and look great. It is NOT like having your breasts ogled or being the object of crude comments. I like being complimented, not disrespected.

TX_Aggie_Dad

Two thoughts:

1. I would suspect that the level of "creepiness" of someone checking out your breasts is inversely related to how good-looking you think the person is that is checking you out. I find it hard to believe that most women would be offended if they were having a conversation with a really hot guy and they caught him checking out their breasts.

2. If you are wearing a low cut blouse and get offended that someone might get distracted and glance down at your breasts when you are talking to them, how do you think you'd function if men had penises on their chest and wore banana hammicks at work. Distracting, no?

You are way off base with #1. It never mattered to me what the guy looked like, if he was leering, rude or inappropriate,,, then creepy. One example for you. When I was 38 or so I lost a lot of weight on the Atkins diet. I was talking to several co workers (which included a really good looking male co-worker that all the single gals were chasing), about the diet. When I got to the part about high protein, he interrupted me and made a gesture to his groin and said "lets go out to the car for lunch I can help you with the high protein". Funny huh?,, all the men laughed, and didn't really understand what I got so angry about. This is just one example, you would have to be a women to understand the creep factor.

#2 I agree with, low cut blouses in the workplace are inappropriate, but still do not give a man the right to stare or leer.

I am a guy and I find that creepy and would have probably reported him to HR. With that said, I think casually checking out someone's boobs is a bit different, no? I think we're talking about staring a bit too long without realizing it as opposed to staring with an open mouth and putting my hand down my pants. Clearly there is a line somewhere. I just find it funny that so many on this thread can't seem to understand how confusing it is to men when you wear something that clearly "shows off" your breasts but yet you get mad when you catch someone looking. Making vulbar comments or making physical contact? Clearly that is out of bounds. You catch the good-looking guy down the hall checking you out as he walks past your desk? And you are mad at that? Really?

aszwarc

If I have been working hard to get fit, healthy, slim, ripped etc etc then having someone looking at my bod or complimenting me on my slimness is all good.

Corollary to this is that I'm trying to lose weight to become more invisible, less noticeable. I do not like when people make comments of any sort on my physical appearance beyond commenting on my clothes ("nice sweater", but not "that sweater looks great on you" because that's about my body in the sweater and not the sweater itself).

The safest course is to refrain from making any statement about someone's physical appearance until you get a read on how they will receive it.

Meganisaface

I don't feel like that's the case everytime. Just because they appreciate whatcha momma gave you, does not mean that they value that more than you yourself. My best guy friend does that on occasion, I take it as a compliment. I know he respects me for who I am personally and that I have some nice boobs that he notices.

ldrosophila

I am a guy and I find that creepy and would have probably reported him to HR. With that said, I think casually checking out someone's boobs is a bit different, no? I think we're talking about staring a bit too long without realizing it as opposed to staring with an open mouth and putting my hand down my pants. Clearly there is a line somewhere. I just find it funny that so many on this thread can't seem to understand how confusing it is to men when you wear something that clearly "shows off" your breasts but yet you get mad when you catch someone looking. Making vulbar comments or making physical contact? Clearly that is out of bounds. You catch the good-looking guy down the hall checking you out as he walks past your desk? And you are mad at that? Really?

One of the previous posters mentioned the "attention" starting when she was 14. In my case, it was when I was 11 and to have grown men "compliment" was a frightening experience. After so many years, you become jaded to these comments and sometimes wish that men could feel that powerlessness once in their lives.

I would recommend if it is confusing to take a Woman's Study class to help you see a different perspective. I took a class once on race relations and it really opened my eyes.

savithny

But for women, it happens ALL THE FREAKIN' TIME. And not just from people we know and trust, but strangers or passing acquaintances. And it starts when we're about 14 years old. (Think about this, if you have daughters, and ask your wife about her experiences.) I'm no beauty queen, I assure you. But I have many memories of being a young teenager and strangers -- adults, mind you -- following me around, pestering me, trying to engage me in conversation, telling me I was "pretty." The head of Sales at my summer job telling me how beautiful my breasts were (wtf!).

Because here's the real problem: there's a way these creeps do it, demanding that I acknowledge them, claiming as their right my attention, goodwill and trust -- and maybe even my gratitude. The clear implication is that I somehow don't actually have a right to withdraw from, ignore, or reject the intimate attention. Because you see, I don't get to choose: they do. And in fact if I do ignore them, or persist in trying to brush off the compliment, then they're not puzzled or embarrassed: they're ANGRY. That's pretty threatening.

Word

People wonder how we can get girls to stay active and healthy. I think a lot of people discount something about girls and sports during adolescence - it attracts creepy older guys who think its absolutely fine to stare at your chest (which you're still getting used to having) and make comments about it. The comments above about "Well, if you're wearing something revealing, it means you want attention." Sometimes, when you're wearing something revealing, it means you're wearing your volleyball uniform, or your running singlet. Which are completely about *you* and your desire to exercise and grow a strong and healthy body, not about some adult man's fantasy about getting his hands on nubile flesh. And when you're a teenager, you're aware those adults have real *power* over you, and if one of them wanted to do more than just look, well ... what are you going to be able to do?

Wearing t-shirts in public, jogging in public, just *being* in public - gets interpreted as permission. It assumes that women's bodies are public property and guys "just can't help themselves." That's the narrative. And if you object? You're crazy. Or a b****. Or making a big deal about nothing. Except that it's not nothing. Because it's part and parcel of a larger attitude of entitlement to women's attention, time, and bodies.

StarChanger

Here's the difference. The experience you described was a one-time, or at least rare event, from somebody that you at least know a little, and trust. If you had, for any reason, needed to let her know she needed to stow it because the attention was unwelcome, you had every reason to believe that she'd not only comply, but probably retreat in embarrassment. If what women routinely experienced was similar to that, I don't think most of us would have a problem with it. As you say, what a fantastic self-esteem booster! Something to give me a happy inner glow the rest of the day!

But for women, it happens ALL THE FREAKIN' TIME. And not just from people we know and trust, but strangers or passing acquaintances. And it starts when we're about 14 years old. (Think about this, if you have daughters, and ask your wife about her experiences.) I'm no beauty queen, I assure you. But I have many memories of being a young teenager and strangers -- adults, mind you -- following me around, pestering me, trying to engage me in conversation, telling me I was "pretty." The head of Sales at my summer job telling me how beautiful my breasts were (wtf!).

And that was when I was still essentially a child. As I got older, then men who weren't just pedophiles started with it too. Here I am now, over 40 years old, not terribly well-preserved either, and when a man compliments my rack or my *kitten* it's STILL NOT CHARMING. I will never be so withered or decrepit or fat that I will be grateful for the attention when it's inappropriately intimate.

Because here's the real problem: there's a way these creeps do it, demanding that I acknowledge them, claiming as their right my attention, goodwill and trust -- and maybe even my gratitude. The clear implication is that I somehow don't actually have a right to withdraw from, ignore, or reject the intimate attention. Because you see, I don't get to choose: they do. And in fact if I do ignore them, or persist in trying to brush off the compliment, then they're not puzzled or embarrassed: they're ANGRY. That's pretty threatening.

Intimacy is earned. Occasional intimate comments from someone I'm close to, or have a warm personal relationship with? NICE. Intimate comments from strangers, my friends' husbands or my husband's friends (or -- teenage edition -- my dad's friends! or my friends' dads!), or people I'm supposed to have a professional relationship with? AGGRESSIVE. HUMILIATING. THREATENING. CREEPY. WRONG.

It's not that all men do this; most of you fellas were raised right! But enough men do it that most women encounter it frequently and learn to look on unsolicited and intimately-framed comments on our appearance with a huge amount of distrust. One bad apple spoils the barrel, they say. So a small but significant minority of aggressively creepy men with who are so socially underdeveloped that they can't understand or respect social boundaries are, frankly, ruining it for the rest of you.

A. F*cking. Men! ***standing ovation****

I could have used your words and passion in a recent thread.

YES! This hit it on the head. And this is an "agree" coming from a woman with very large breasts that magically appeared in one summer between 7th and 8th grade. Middle school boys used to just reach out and grab them....by the time I was in my early 20s, I had received so much unwanted attention that I had a BREAST REDUCTION....at age 24. Now, at early-40-something, I can certainly handle a creep and his comments...but as a GIRL or young woman, it is humiliating and frankly, scary at times.

And yes, I too got hit on by men who, you fathers out there, would think would be safe around their daughters. Your best friends, your daughter's boyfriend's father (yes, the DAD of your daughter's BF!!!) Here you are thinking the 15 yr old BOY in your daughter's life is a problem.....think again.

And the bottom line is we, as women, don't really know when that creepy, leering, asshat is going to grab us, throw us down, and rape us. ALL women must think like this in the back of our minds at ALL times because the statistics don't lie. 1:2 women have been sexually abused / assaulted by the time they reach adulthood.

PS: I am not a man-hater. All of my best-friends are male and always have been, but there truly are a LOT of scary, creepy dudes out there.

RhonndaJ

I don't get mad. There's no point to doing so.

I have snapped my fingers in front of a client's face and told him that my face was a few inches higher and he should keep his attention up there in the future.

I've had someone tell me I had great boobs. My response was to thank him and tell him I liked the as well and then went on with the conversation.

I've had a guy try the hands-on route. I shrugged out of it and asked if he had really good healthcare because he'd need it if he ever laid a hand on me again.

Yeah, there's been a couple of creepy over the years, as I've had guys staring/commenting since my breasts made an appearance when I was 12. Oh lucky me. But challenging them outright has always been effective in getting them to knock it off.

I choose my battles.

ldrosophila

But for women, it happens ALL THE FREAKIN' TIME. And not just from people we know and trust, but strangers or passing acquaintances. And it starts when we're about 14 years old. (Think about this, if you have daughters, and ask your wife about her experiences.) I'm no beauty queen, I assure you. But I have many memories of being a young teenager and strangers -- adults, mind you -- following me around, pestering me, trying to engage me in conversation, telling me I was "pretty." The head of Sales at my summer job telling me how beautiful my breasts were (wtf!).

Because here's the real problem: there's a way these creeps do it, demanding that I acknowledge them, claiming as their right my attention, goodwill and trust -- and maybe even my gratitude. The clear implication is that I somehow don't actually have a right to withdraw from, ignore, or reject the intimate attention. Because you see, I don't get to choose: they do. And in fact if I do ignore them, or persist in trying to brush off the compliment, then they're not puzzled or embarrassed: they're ANGRY. That's pretty threatening.

Word

People wonder how we can get girls to stay active and healthy. I think a lot of people discount something about girls and sports during adolescence - it attracts creepy older guys who think its absolutely fine to stare at your chest (which you're still getting used to having) and make comments about it. The comments above about "Well, if you're wearing something revealing, it means you want attention." Sometimes, when you're wearing something revealing, it means you're wearing your volleyball uniform, or your running singlet. Which are completely about *you* and your desire to exercise and grow a strong and healthy body, not about some adult man's fantasy about getting his hands on nubile flesh. And when you're a teenager, you're aware those adults have real *power* over you, and if one of them wanted to do more than just look, well ... what are you going to be able to do?

Wearing t-shirts in public, jogging in public, just *being* in public - gets interpreted as permission. It assumes that women's bodies are public property and guys "just can't help themselves." That's the narrative. And if you object? You're crazy. Or a b****. Or making a big deal about nothing. Except that it's not nothing. Because it's part and parcel of a larger attitude of entitlement to women's attention, time, and bodies.

Amen! It's the bigger picture for many of us it starts when we are still children.

megsmom2

if youre looking at her breasts instead of HER and hearing what she's saying...it is not complimentary. You worked for those muscles...but is that all you want anyone to notice about you or look at when they're talking to you?

StinkyWinkies

A Presbyterian Minister once said to me "In a truly healthy society, which we are not, a woman could walk down the street naked and not be accosted; while looks, whistles and cat-calls would be appreciated."

Only one time have I felt a person stared at my chest/breasts/teats/boobs 'inappropriately.' It was a blind date lunch, I was "buttoned up" to the chin (I was on a business trip) and the man just stared at my chest/breasts/teats/boobs throughout lunch. I didn't get it...if I'd been wearing anything that wasn't loose and flowing, I might have understood.

Beyond that, I have never been offended by being looked/stared at...the comments, though, those I can do without.

S.W.

jonnythan

Because in our society women have their worth as a human being judged by how sexy their body is on a daily basis.

Pretending to know how you'd feel and how you'd react after a lifetime of that is incredibly selfish, arrogant, and ignorant. It's nice to be objectified every now and then. It's not nice to be objectified all the time.

libbybond

men looking at breasts
woman looking at biceps
see a difference?

Sedna_51

When somebody decides that not having your arms "appropriately covered" makes it OK for to leer, harass, grope, assault, rape, or otherwise treat you like a mindless (duck)-toy instead of a human being, and when you complain to the authorities about this and hear the response back "what do you expect, showing so much skin? Are you sure you weren't asking for it?", you will have my sympathy. Until then? Yeah, probably going to keep getting mad.

ShaunaMcMac

Post breast feeding, I'd be thrilled for someone to appreciate my breasts again.

Brenda4105

I think it all has to do with the how secure the person is. If someone is checking me out and is creepy about it - I don't have a problem telling them "Hello! my eyes are up here! No matter how hard you stare those girls are not going to talk to you!" If the person is being genuine about admiring how I look, I still would pri tell them that my eyes are way higher than where they are looking, but thanks for noticing.

I know some women get all geeked about someone looking at them. Hello - if you don't want them to look at you then don't look good.

rml_16

I know some women get all geeked about someone looking at them. Hello - if you don't want them to look at you then don't look good.

Are you freaking kidding me with this statement?

jonnythan

I'd recommend that everyone who doesn't understand the problem start here:

http://awkwardsituationist.tumblr.com/post/52817821994/cambridge-university-students-were-asked-on-campus

greenmonstergirl

Haha! Women love the attention and they ***** about it to other women to brag and ***** about it to men to get yet more attention. Not fooling anyone!

katiej080810

it doesn't make me think they don't care what I"m saying hahahahah. If they glaze over and don't reply when I ask a question then maybe we have a problem, but if they can follow my conversation and contribute I don't care where they look. And I always figure if a girl didn't want people to look, I guess she would wear a turtleneck.

I agree, my husband and I have talked about it. Sure there are the creeps that just want to stare and get the message out that they would have sex with you if you'd let them. Then there are the sweet honest guys like my husband who see someone who is wearing an innapropriate skimpy top and his eyes automatically are drawn there, then he feels guilty and has to tell me about it like he did something wrong. I think women should dress modestly if they don't want to be leered at. If they are wearing shirts that reveal too much then they probably do enjoy getting the attention, even if they won't admit it.

katiej080810

Haha! Women love the attention and they ***** about it to other women to brag and ***** about it to men to get yet more attention. Not fooling anyone!

And this!

ItsCasey

If I was a lady and every time I moved or just took a deep breath and the guy I was talking to looked down at my chest, I wouldn't get mad. I'd just say: "Thank you, thank you very much."

This may be one of the most disgusting things I've ever read on this site, and that's saying something. Do you have a daughter? Or a mother? Sister? Wife, girlfriend, any female in your life you might feel the least bit protective of? If so, imagine some guy saying to her what you just wrote.

If you want to make a woman feel good about herself, try doing what the woman in your story did. OPEN YOUR MOUTH, and use whatever language skills you can muster to pay her a genuine compliment. Try saying something like "You look great. You must work really hard to stay in the kind of shape." Don't stare at her boobs like a toddler who isn't sure what they are and then expect her to THANK YOU for it.

inside_lap

I think sometimes there are potential implications. I for one don't take offense when people, men or women, complement me in a non-creepy manner. Noe I've also had a couple of people ask me why I bother to go to graduate school as I am"pretty enough to catch me a rich man." Now THAT is totally offensive even if the people didn't mean it that way.

CJ_Holmes

Here's the difference. The experience you described was a one-time, or at least rare event, from somebody that you at least know a little, and trust. If you had, for any reason, needed to let her know she needed to stow it because the attention was unwelcome, you had every reason to believe that she'd not only comply, but probably retreat in embarrassment. If what women routinely experienced was similar to that, I don't think most of us would have a problem with it.

:flowerforyou: Thank you for taking the time to write this. Very well explained.

CJ_Holmes

Because in our society women have their worth as a human being judged by how sexy their body is on a daily basis.

Pretending to know how you'd feel and how you'd react after a lifetime of that is incredibly selfish, arrogant, and ignorant. It's nice to be objectified every now and then. It's not nice to be objectified all the time.

A man checking his privilege? I think I'm in love!

CJ_Holmes

it doesn't make me think they don't care what I"m saying hahahahah. If they glaze over and don't reply when I ask a question then maybe we have a problem, but if they can follow my conversation and contribute I don't care where they look. And I always figure if a girl didn't want people to look, I guess she would wear a turtleneck.

I agree, my husband and I have talked about it. Sure there are the creeps that just want to stare and get the message out that they would have sex with you if you'd let them. Then there are the sweet honest guys like my husband who see someone who is wearing an innapropriate skimpy top and his eyes automatically are drawn there, then he feels guilty and has to tell me about it like he did something wrong. I think women should dress modestly if they don't want to be leered at. If they are wearing shirts that reveal too much then they probably do enjoy getting the attention, even if they won't admit it.

Take this argument just a bit further and it sounds exactly like "She was asking for it." It's a big problem that we accept the idea that men can't control themselves.