Red meat is GOOD for you! How Americans got it wrong...
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my ten cents worth, if you are going back to our roots, try deer meat. Ive eaten it for years. it is a staple, lean no additives, harvested on an annual basis and self renewing. Very healthy. Not for everyone i know as it is not readily available unless you are in a rural area.....being argumentative...lol
but still true. 0 -
I'm so confused what's going on in here right now.
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britishbourne1990 wrote: »my ten cents worth, if you are going back to our roots, try deer meat. Ive eaten it for years. it is a staple, lean no additives, harvested on an annual basis and self renewing. Very healthy. Not for everyone i know as it is not readily available unless you are in a rural area.....being argumentative...lol but still true.
Where I live, deer herds have been thinning since 2009 (drivers complained and the government hired marksmen / markswomen? to go out and cull the herd). I go out every year, but the last time I was able to harvest a deer was 2012. Other hunters I've talked to in the area where I hunt have found the same thing. Of about 2 dozen hunters I saw in that area, 2 of them had actually gotten a deer. It doesn't sound like drivers will be happy until every last deer is gone.
*I drive about 25K-30K miles per year and have never hit a deer. Maybe drivers need to pay closer attention rather than blaming the deer.0 -
I suspect the bolded along with overconsumption are the root causes of obesity and obesity related diseases. Far more then any particular food the latest diet cult leader is telling is to avoid... clean or not, whatever the hell that means.It's not perfect, but still an interested read. Also I have a suspicion that all the fear of red meat is overstated and has more to do with unhealthy eating / lack of exercise and nutritional balance than it does red meat.
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This makes zero sense...fernandaBush wrote: »The sugar... whenever people reduce the fat and meat they substitute it with whole grain and carbs, which is sugar. Then insulin levels start to go crazy, fat starts to accumulate and they get sick and blame it on the fat and meat that they removed in the first place.
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ceoverturf wrote: »Lkldcatlady wrote: »Yikes! With all due respect to your opinion, I think you should do some research. Dr. Ornish has over 30 years of scientific evidence that animal products (meat, dairy, eggs) and processed fat and sugar will KILL YOU DEAD.
So you're saying if I avoid all those things...I'll live...FOREVER??
Besides being "killed dead" is there another way to be killed? Until I know for sure, I'll just eat like my grandparents, who lived to 87, 93, 95, and 96 respectively. All of them maintained normal weight. All of them ate meat.0 -
britishbourne1990 wrote: »my ten cents worth, if you are going back to our roots, try deer meat.
This is like the butter vs. olive oil or chard vs. spinach things. Why do you have to pick just one? I like venison AND beef (and lamb and chicken and fish and pork and I could continue). I also like lots of non-meat foods, of course.0 -
Purty!
As the philosopher Chris Rock once said "If you live in a country where you have access to red meat - bite the *kitten* out of it!"0 -
It's not perfect, but still an interested read. Also I have a suspicion that all the fear of red meat is overstated and has more to do with unhealthy eating / lack of exercise and nutritional balance than it does red meat.
Note: I say that with absolutely zero background in nutritional science, or study in anything related to biology-related fields, and having read a total of 0 peer reviewed articles on the topic. The post is mostly for fun / discussion of the article.
So, why present it as fact and come up with a conclusion about what to eat? If you love red meat, you can easily find some person on the internet claiming it is the best and healthiest food ever. You can do the same for bananas, coconuts, milk and pretty much anything else, including drugs (yes, there are forums with people praising the long term effects of drugs, and I am not talking about marijuana only either). Either do your research (in medical reviewed studies) or just eat whatever you like, not caring if it is healthy or not. Do not try to justify your eating preferences using random internet sites.
I was actually just posting an interesting article from the Atlantic about the early American diet, and its evolution and connection to heart disease. The "findings" (though some of it is questionable) does show some serious contradictions with things we just assume are correct.
I don't need the internetz to justify eating habits. I'm convinced a balanced diet of whole foods with lots of vegetables, mixed proteins, fruits, and limited grains (and even some dairy!) is healthy through research and personal experience. This post pushes back on the red meat "boogey-man" theory, yes, but includes some humor and history to chew on as well.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »^^It was nice knowing the two of you.
RIP, lemurcat12 and jemhh. Vaya con dios.
We are going down in a blaze of glory.
[img][/img]
I am led to believe, by one Charles Dickens, that eating beef will express my love for the USA.
Given that this is that important period between Flag Day and the 4th, I believe this is something I must do.
(Dickens' other comments about the USA shall be ignored, for now.)
Lol. Cute up the Neil Diamond...
'murica
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This post pushes back on the red meat "boogey-man" theory, yes, but includes some humor and history to chew on as well.
That's the spirit in which I took this thread.
I don't think reducing red meat is why the American diet is not so great or why Americans are fatter now, but it's a fun thread, especially with the Ornish stuff added to the mix.0 -
In 1900, they didn't have internet either, so why you posting this on it?0
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Lkldcatlady wrote: »Yikes! With all due respect to your opinion, I think you should do some research. Dr. Ornish has over 30 years of scientific evidence that animal products (meat, dairy, eggs) and processed fat and sugar will KILL YOU DEAD. Yes, we should eat like our ancestors - the apes we evolved from. Humans are herbivores and no part of our bodies are made to digest mean or dairy. Paleo and anything similar is pop culture and a fad. You have to look at proven scientific evidence. Read The Spectrum by Ornish or The China Study by Campbell. There is a reason that people in remote places in Japan and Africa (where they subsist on potatoes or rice) live to be over 100 years old. I don't want to be argumentative, I just think it's really important to research all options and go with the one that has the most evidence behind it.
Ornish and Campbell's China Study to fight paleoism. It is like Alien Versus Predator, no matter who wins that argument we lose.
Extra fun facts round
We are apes, not just evolved from apes
As others said, chimps are one of our nearest relatives (Bonobos being equally close), and they use meat as a status symbol
Even Gorillas can't be pure herbivores (technically they're usually called frugivores) as they don't ruminate - they have to eat raw eggs or feces to get vitamin B12
All mammals can digest dairy to some extant, that's part of being mammals
We didn't have body part of eating meat, but we have evolutionary adaptions to make eating it work better - we have the unique condition of evolving external digestion, you probably call it cooking.0 -
Lkldcatlady wrote: »Yikes! With all due respect to your opinion, I think you should do some research. Dr. Ornish has over 30 years of scientific evidence that animal products (meat, dairy, eggs) and processed fat and sugar will KILL YOU DEAD. Yes, we should eat like our ancestors - the apes we evolved from. Humans are herbivores and no part of our bodies are made to digest mean or dairy. Paleo and anything similar is pop culture and a fad. You have to look at proven scientific evidence. Read The Spectrum by Ornish or The China Study by Campbell. There is a reason that people in remote places in Japan and Africa (where they subsist on potatoes or rice) live to be over 100 years old. I don't want to be argumentative, I just think it's really important to research all options and go with the one that has the most evidence behind it.
Ornish and Campbell's China Study to fight paleoism. It is like Alien Versus Predator, no matter who wins that argument we lose.
Unfortunately for the argument thinking a hypothetical person would just die off and be gone because they eat meat only would be a waste of time (made a little leap there, yeah, that wasn't in the original quote). The human body would be efficient enough to keep this person alive long enough to procreate, at which point this could make them "win", and even if they didn't live much longer, if the procreation was enough across a meat eating population, they could "win" by out reproducing other humans.
This is why biologically, the modern obesity "epidemic" and its downstream effects don't mean **** until they start interfering with out ability to "thrive". For the most part we are all staying healthy through middle age, and that's more than enough...
Nature doesn't view human "success" the same way civilized society does...nature only cares about who passes on their genes.0 -
Say whaaaat??!
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Lkldcatlady wrote: »Yikes! With all due respect to your opinion, I think you should do some research. Dr. Ornish has over 30 years of scientific evidence that animal products (meat, dairy, eggs) and processed fat and sugar will KILL YOU DEAD. Yes, we should eat like our ancestors - the apes we evolved from. Humans are herbivores and no part of our bodies are made to digest mean or dairy. Paleo and anything similar is pop culture and a fad. You have to look at proven scientific evidence. Read The Spectrum by Ornish or The China Study by Campbell. There is a reason that people in remote places in Japan and Africa (where they subsist on potatoes or rice) live to be over 100 years old. I don't want to be argumentative, I just think it's really important to research all options and go with the one that has the most evidence behind it.
You came here just to say this? Well, welcome aboard!
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Either eat the meat or don't.
It's not serious.
At all.
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I just ate a pound of grass fed hamburger and it only fulfills about half my iron requirements for the day. I was told not to eat red meat all the time because of the build up of excess iron causes heart disease. Lies I tell you.0
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LOL
"NINA TEICHOLZ"
Quacks gonna quack
"The justification for this idea, that our ancestors lived mainly on fruits, vegetables, and grains, comes mainly from the USDA “food disappearance data.” The “disappearance” of food is an approximation of supply; most of it is probably being eaten, but much is wasted, too. Experts therefore acknowledge that the disappearance numbers are merely rough estimates of consumption."
Then uses food disappearance data to support her points later
"About 175 pounds of meat per person per year—compared to the roughly 100 pounds of meat per year that an average adult American eats today. And of that 100 pounds of meat, about half is poultry—chicken and turkey—whereas until the mid-20th century, chicken was considered a luxury meat, on the menu only for special occasions (chickens were valued mainly for their eggs)."
Correlations are bad, unless they support my POV
"Ironically—or perhaps tellingly—the heart disease “epidemic” began after a period of exceptionally reduced meat eating. In other words, meat eating went down just before coronary disease took off."
Because we ALL know how accurate Victorian cause of death certificates are, right????? And their diagnostic capacity. We can totally look at their data there.
Lordy. I'm not-quite expert in Victorian history, though very close, and I'm RIGHT THERE with people wanting to debunk myths about the 19th century....but this is the sheerest nonsense.
1.) Dickens was coming from Britain to the US. The poorest people in the US were ENORMOUSLY richer than the poorest people in Britain at the time...who were richer than the poorest people anywhere else in Europe at the time. That's why so many wanted to immigrate! Labor was in short supply, and so the average wages were (and STILL ARE) the highest in the world among any large-ish country, though of course high levels of immigration always depressed wages, so it wasn't a steady relationship. Dickens, like many travelers before him, was astonished at how rich the common man was, and that was how he expressed it. In London, a HIGH level, skilled working-class man often had a roast on Sunday alone, while lower-skill and lower-paid workers sometimes never enjoyed an entire cut of beef.
2.) Chickens were primarily raised for eggs, but all but a few of the roosters were eaten as capons, and old roosters and hens weren't really seen as formal market food for the most part because they weren't good enough but were eaten at home on the farm. When you're talking about a population that's over 70% agrarian/agricultural at this time, that's a LOT of birds missing from the data. The "Sunday roast" for a farm family was often a whole bird instead, usually old and slow-cooked. CAPONS were a luxury dish. Yard birds--which most of America had access to before WWII--were NOT!
3.) Ranching wasn't really much of a "thing" until the 1830s. Texas independence, the settling of the West, and the building of the railroads into Chicago to create the Chicago meat packing industry caused the relative price of beef to PLUMMET in the US compared to anywhere else in the world at the time. Land insanely cheap, and the big cost was the labor to watch and later drive the herd. (Heck we still get the cheapest beef!) Before then, cattle were kept for milk and labor. Cows would calve once a year. The cow's milk production was then split between that of the farmer and the calf. After the calf was weened, the farmer would continue to milk the cow. Usually, calves that weren't being kept for oxen or for more milk cows were killed for market in the fall, but depending on how much land the farmer had and how much milk he needed, they could be killed earlier. Prices, obviously, varied seasonally. Anyway, comparing the 1850s beef consumption in the US to beef consumption in 1910 in the US or even in 1800 would give you a VERY, VERY wrong idea.
4.) Heart disease actually exploded in the Victorian era with the first ever obesity epidemic. The middle and upper classes were getting hideously fat because they stopped walking everywhere and took carriages, and there were a ton more people with sedentary jobs. During the "long" 19th century, for example, the US went from about 90% agrarian to less than 50% right before WWI. Even among the middle/upper classes, most entertainment before the Victorian era was "cardio"--dancing, riding, walking, and hunting. But in the Victorian era, that changed. Dancing was much less vigorous, racing was looked down on, and in general, the sedentary behavior grew enormously. It's mainly because the middle and upper class Victorians were the first "dignified" generation. They walked, they didn't run; the men wore black instead of bright silks; when they gambled, it was around tables or on other people's exertions, not their own. That's why people suddenly became interested in exercise as we now know it. People were getting ridiculously out of shape and, for the first time, being fat and out of shape wasn't merely something that eccentric people did but that hundreds of thousands were concerned about. The "health fads" of the 1800s (sometimes with peculiar religious overtones) paved the way to the glorification of sport in schools (and modern professional sports) in the late 1800s to early 1900s and in general created a change in society about "health" (though not entirely healthy itself...) that lasted through the 1950s to 1960s or so, when it was seen as "stodgy." Then in the 60s, the hippies co-opted "healthy living" in a new form that was very offputting to most Americans--BIG on the mystical crap--so it kind of fell by the wayside until detoxes and cleanses and other nonsense became mainstream again in the 1980s...when we were starting to face a wave of the most sedentary behavior and cheapest food ever that together spelled serious trouble!0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Here's the full meal description:At eight o’clock, the shelves being taken down and put away and the tables joined together, everybody sat down to the tea, coffee, bread, butter, salmon, shad, liver, steak, potatoes, pickles, ham, chops, black-puddings, and sausages, all over again. Some were fond of compounding this variety, and having it all on their plates at once. As each gentleman got through his own personal amount of tea, coffee, bread, butter, salmon, shad, liver, steak, potatoes, pickles, ham, chops, black-puddings, and sausages, he rose up and walked off. When everybody had done with everything, the fragments were cleared away: and one of the waiters appearing anew in the character of a barber, shaved such of the company as desired to be shaved; while the remainder looked on, or yawned over their newspapers. Dinner was breakfast again, without the tea and coffee; and supper and breakfast were identical.
Yes, and comparing this diet to the average diet at the time is like describing a cookout or buffet and what guys eat there to what everyone eats at home. It's designed to seduce the middle-class male commercial traveler. :P "Travel with us next time because our food is AWESOME!"
You also left out the next bit:
""Will you try," said my opposite neighbour, handing me a dish of potatoes broken up in milk and butter, "will you try some of these fixings?"" And later...."and if you complain of indisposition, you are advised to have recourse to Doctor So-and-so, who will "fix you" in no time." Because of the meal. Because it's so rich--unusually so!
You can actually look at US and British cookbooks of the era, BTW, and at party menus. (Parties were high on the meats, anyway.)
Oh, one last thing. Do you thing "A chicken for every pot" meant the same sort of thing as "Foie gras for every pot?" Or do you think it's more likely that he meant that every family should have a decent supply of food?
(A chicken that you would put in a "pot", btw, and not roast would be an older chicken, hen or rooster.)0 -
I'm a vegetarian who always found red meat to be incredibly constipating back when I did eat meat, which is why the bulk of my consumption usually leaned towards poultry and fish. I just read this for lolz, because I knew y'all would deliver. I was not disappointed.0
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midwesterner85 wrote: »britishbourne1990 wrote: »my ten cents worth, if you are going back to our roots, try deer meat. Ive eaten it for years. it is a staple, lean no additives, harvested on an annual basis and self renewing. Very healthy. Not for everyone i know as it is not readily available unless you are in a rural area.....being argumentative...lol but still true.
Where I live, deer herds have been thinning since 2009 (drivers complained and the government hired marksmen / markswomen? to go out and cull the herd). I go out every year, but the last time I was able to harvest a deer was 2012. Other hunters I've talked to in the area where I hunt have found the same thing. Of about 2 dozen hunters I saw in that area, 2 of them had actually gotten a deer. It doesn't sound like drivers will be happy until every last deer is gone.
*I drive about 25K-30K miles per year and have never hit a deer. Maybe drivers need to pay closer attention rather than blaming the deer.
Haven't you heard? The deer have moved to the city, or rather suburbs. Good hunting.
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MamaBirdBoss wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Here's the full meal description:At eight o’clock, the shelves being taken down and put away and the tables joined together, everybody sat down to the tea, coffee, bread, butter, salmon, shad, liver, steak, potatoes, pickles, ham, chops, black-puddings, and sausages, all over again. Some were fond of compounding this variety, and having it all on their plates at once. As each gentleman got through his own personal amount of tea, coffee, bread, butter, salmon, shad, liver, steak, potatoes, pickles, ham, chops, black-puddings, and sausages, he rose up and walked off. When everybody had done with everything, the fragments were cleared away: and one of the waiters appearing anew in the character of a barber, shaved such of the company as desired to be shaved; while the remainder looked on, or yawned over their newspapers. Dinner was breakfast again, without the tea and coffee; and supper and breakfast were identical.
Yes, and comparing this diet to the average diet at the time is like describing a cookout or buffet and what guys eat there to what everyone eats at home. It's designed to seduce the middle-class male commercial traveler. :P "Travel with us next time because our food is AWESOME!"
You also left out the next bit:
""Will you try," said my opposite neighbour, handing me a dish of potatoes broken up in milk and butter, "will you try some of these fixings?"" And later...."and if you complain of indisposition, you are advised to have recourse to Doctor So-and-so, who will "fix you" in no time." Because of the meal. Because it's so rich--unusually so!
You can actually look at US and British cookbooks of the era, BTW, and at party menus. (Parties were high on the meats, anyway.)
Oh, one last thing. Do you thing "A chicken for every pot" meant the same sort of thing as "Foie gras for every pot?" Or do you think it's more likely that he meant that every family should have a decent supply of food?
(A chicken that you would put in a "pot", btw, and not roast would be an older chicken, hen or rooster.)
I hope you don't think I was suggesting that was an ordinary meal. I was providing the context (and the rest of the menu, which seemed more remarkable than beef at breakfast).
(I actually have and read lots of older cookbooks, from a variety of periods.)0 -
HGreat article: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/06/how-americans-used-to-eat/371895/
"About one fifth of the U.S. population was over 50 years old in 1900. This number would seem to refute the familiar argument that people formerly didn’t live long enough for heart disease to emerge as an observable problem." "Ironically—or perhaps tellingly—the heart disease “epidemic” began after a period of exceptionally reduced meat eating."
And this gem: "Charles Dickens, when he visited [America], wrote that “no breakfast was breakfast” without a T-bone steak."
Friends: Eat your red meat guilt-free as part of a delicious whole foods diet -- #CleanEating 101. I suspect this global food sickness is due to the modern introduction of processed junk and absurd amounts of added sugar.
I'll just leave this here:
Holy Cherry Picking Batman!!!!!0 -
Now I want to go home and throw some steak on the BBQ.
But it's 10:30am.
I'm at work.
I have no steak at home.
My husband doesn't know how to BBQ steak.
Sad day0 -
Now I want to go home and throw some steak on the BBQ.
But it's 10:30am.
I'm at work.
I have no steak at home.
My husband doesn't know how to BBQ steak.
Sad day
There are people who will not only obtain the meat, but will even cook it for you. Such people can be found at resaurants.0 -
Just made these on Father's day for my husband and a few guests and we did chew the fat afterwards. All things in moderation but I need to stay away from threads like these until I get more established as a woman watching her calories. Le sigh.
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