Why the study that showed taking vitamins don't work, is wrong.
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I have pernicious anemia, and my hematology doc has given me a script for a daily multivitamin. I also have to take massive doses of b12, and iron. I feel better when I take the multivitamin, so honestly, it depends. If your body has gone stupid for some reason, then they can benifit you. I also recall an experiment by a college kid, who made a vitamin "mixture" that he called soyent green. He lived off of it for quite a long time with no ill effects.
It's just called soylent. And you can buy it now! Not that I would. lol
https://www.soylent.com/Considering that the grant approval rates for the NIH have dropped to below 4% last year, the approval rates for NSF were below 3% last time I checked, and many researchers I know are now looking to the DOD (horrors!) for funding, I'm kind of surprised that there hasn't been more of an interest in crowdfunding for research. I'd think it'd be particularly useful for research into rare diseases. That has a tough time getting funding from either government or pharma sources.
Maybe it's the amount of money that would be needed that's the roadblock. Tens of thousands just doesn't cut it these days.
I had this same thought a while back and had a hard time getting it across in a way that made anybody think I was serious. I was talking about crowdfunding space projects at the very least. +100 -
I had gotten caught up in trying to defend the original videos and the author, that I never got a word in about discussing vitamins itself.
Yes, I wholeheartedly think you need to get blood work done. For Vitamin D, the RDA is 600 IU per day, but many researchers are saying that it should be more like 2-4000 IU. As stated in one of the OP videos, Vitamin D controls over 1000 different processes in your body. You should be taking enough so that your blood work shows that you have about 30 ng/ml. If you are deficient, you should be supplementing with more until you get to those levels.0 -
I had gotten caught up in trying to defend the original videos and the author, that I never got a word in about discussing vitamins itself.
Yes, I wholeheartedly think you need to get blood work done. For Vitamin D, the RDA is 600 IU per day, but many researchers are saying that it should be more like 2-4000 IU. As stated in one of the OP videos, Vitamin D controls over 1000 different processes in your body. You should be taking enough so that your blood work shows that you have about 30 ng/ml. If you are deficient, you should be supplementing with more until you get to those levels.
No one is disputing the bold. But not everyone needs to supplement. This is why blood test are effective.
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I had gotten caught up in trying to defend the original videos and the author, that I never got a word in about discussing vitamins itself.
Yes, I wholeheartedly think you need to get blood work done. For Vitamin D, the RDA is 600 IU per day, but many researchers are saying that it should be more like 2-4000 IU. As stated in one of the OP videos, Vitamin D controls over 1000 different processes in your body. You should be taking enough so that your blood work shows that you have about 30 ng/ml. If you are deficient, you should be supplementing with more until you get to those levels.
These guys disagree: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3046611/
" Moreover, existing evidence suggests that nearly all individuals meet their needs at intake levels (RDAs) provided in this report and, for vitamin D, at 25OHD levels of at least 20 ng/ml (50 nmol/liter) even under conditions of minimal sun exposure. Furthermore, higher levels have not been shown consistently to confer greater benefits, challenging the concept that “more is better.” The Committee finds that the prevalence of vitamin D inadequacy in the North American population has been overestimated by some groups due to the use of inappropriate cut-points that greatly exceed the levels identified in this report. Serum concentrations of 25OHD above 30 ng/ml (75 nmol/liter) are not consistently associated with increased benefit, and risks have been identified for some outcomes at 25OHD levels above 50 ng/ml (125 nmol/liter). "0 -
But there isn't a consensus, as they finish their conclusion withAdditional research, including large-scale, randomized clinical trials, is needed. In the meantime, however, we believe that there is an urgent clinical and public health need for consensus cut-points for serum 25OHD inadequacy to avoid problems of both undertreatment and overtreatment.
And when it comes to Vitamin D deficiency, this article from the Mayo clinic states:Even so, 25% to 50% or more of patients commonly encountered in clinical practice are deficient in vitamin D. Recent advances in biochemical assessment, therapeutic goals for vitamin D nutrition for optimal bone health, and the association of vitamin D deficiency with nonskeletal disease have revived interest in this hormone.
And in one of the recent publications by the OP video author, in regards to Vitamin D regulating Seratonin synthesis, they cite that 70% of Americans are deficient.
Following up with how Vitamin D effects Telomere length. Telomeres are caps at the end of your chromosomes that protect your dna from damage. And this study says the sweet spot seems to be between 40-60ng/ml
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but not necessarily in the same doses.TheDevastator wrote: »That would make too much sense. It's a vitamin you should be getting it every day.
again, it is added to so much of what typical westerners already eat, and is naturally present in so much else, that I doubt many require a supplement. at least until I see the studies showing evidence for a high dose maintenance level.0 -
RDAs are how much they estimate you need of a vitamin not how much you can get from food. Most vitamin experts say they are actually too low.TheDevastator wrote: »No matter how good your diet is, you can't get the full rdas of all the vitamins in a single day unless you go way over on calories on standard grocery store food.
If that is true, then the RDAs are by definition too high.
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TheDevastator wrote: »
RDAs are how much they estimate you need of a vitamin not how much you can get from food. Most vitamin experts say they are actually too low.TheDevastator wrote: »No matter how good your diet is, you can't get the full rdas of all the vitamins in a single day unless you go way over on calories on standard grocery store food.
If that is true, then the RDAs are by definition too high.
Any RDA that concludes we need more than can be obtained from a reasonable diet is by definition wrong.
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glovepuppet wrote: »
but not necessarily in the same doses.TheDevastator wrote: »That would make too much sense. It's a vitamin you should be getting it every day.
again, it is added to so much of what typical westerners already eat, and is naturally present in so much else, that I doubt many require a supplement. at least until I see the studies showing evidence for a high dose maintenance level.
The dose should be the same based on your weight unless you are sick and or stressed then certain vitamin requirements go up.0 -
Your dentist/periodontist is smart. I doubt most U.S. dentists would recommend vitamins.christinev297 wrote: »yes, I take magnesium most nights.
As for vitamin C , because of years of smoking. My dentist/periodontist has me on 20g vit C daily, which is a mega dose!
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TheDevastator wrote: »
RDAs are how much they estimate you need of a vitamin not how much you can get from food. Most vitamin experts say they are actually too low.TheDevastator wrote: »No matter how good your diet is, you can't get the full rdas of all the vitamins in a single day unless you go way over on calories on standard grocery store food.
If that is true, then the RDAs are by definition too high.
Any RDA that concludes we need more than can be obtained from a reasonable diet is by definition wrong.
That would be a fair amount of them unless you are eating fortified foods which is like taking vitamins in the first place.0 -
TheDevastator wrote: »TheDevastator wrote: »
RDAs are how much they estimate you need of a vitamin not how much you can get from food. Most vitamin experts say they are actually too low.TheDevastator wrote: »No matter how good your diet is, you can't get the full rdas of all the vitamins in a single day unless you go way over on calories on standard grocery store food.
If that is true, then the RDAs are by definition too high.
Any RDA that concludes we need more than can be obtained from a reasonable diet is by definition wrong.
That would be a fair amount of them unless you are eating fortified foods which is like taking vitamins in the first place.
Yes, I consider the RDAs for many vitamins to be at best psuedo-science for that very reason.
If they were real, our species would have gone extinct a long time ago.
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TheDevastator wrote: »TheDevastator wrote: »
RDAs are how much they estimate you need of a vitamin not how much you can get from food. Most vitamin experts say they are actually too low.TheDevastator wrote: »No matter how good your diet is, you can't get the full rdas of all the vitamins in a single day unless you go way over on calories on standard grocery store food.
If that is true, then the RDAs are by definition too high.
Any RDA that concludes we need more than can be obtained from a reasonable diet is by definition wrong.
That would be a fair amount of them unless you are eating fortified foods which is like taking vitamins in the first place.
Yes, I consider the RDAs for many vitamins to be at best psuedo-science for that very reason.
If they were real, our species would have gone extinct a long time ago.
Not necessarily. There's a big difference between a slight deficiency and getting a disease from a deficiency. People can go decades (the lucky ones) lacking enough vitamins before disease starts. Most people procreate young and don't start getting health problems until they are middle age or older.0 -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25272578Vitamin intake from food showed the deficiency of vitamins D, B1 and folates and adequate intake of vitamins A, C, E, B2, B6, B12.
Most vitamins are easily eaten to good amounts in your normal food intake.0 -
There's no way the body can absorb 20g of vitamin c a day. Nevermind that everyone raves because it's an antixodant, but in high doses it becomes an oxidant and can cause DNA damage. Of course, in biochemical they said we'd never have to worry about that because your body can't absorb that much unless it starts malfunctioning. At this point, you just have very expensive pee.0
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Vitamin supplements make for excellent municipal water supply enhancers.
At least the water soluble ones.0 -
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And yet, we keep living longer, and usefully-longer, lives.
There's a huge disconnect between theory and evidence here...0 -
The FDA does not regulate supplements, test for safety or otherwise, unless they are already on the market and consumers have reported adverse health effects. One of the many reasons I do not take any supplements.0
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mantium999 wrote: »
No, I don't. And I posted publications from other sources, and they went ignored. I put up a pretty picture and it's back to discrediting it because you don't like the author.
No worries though, I'm done with the conversation. I for one am not qualified to talk, as I have no background in cell biology, or nutrition, and all I'm doing is parroting points from other sources. I'm not trying to convert people into taking vitamin pills. Everyone should try to get what they can from food, but when you don't, or can't, you should supplement. To say vitamins don't work is pretty ignorant. If you question the validity of the supplement you're taking, get blood work done before and after taking it.0 -
There are two primary factors driving cancer incident rates - increased life span and increased detection.
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mantium999 wrote: »
For the sake of full disclosure, as you seem to be highly interested in this topic and her work. Do you by chance have a personal connection to this Dr. Patrick?
Clever method of attacking the OP.0 -
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Actually, its a valid question. I couldnt tell you how often people come on to this forum to help promote youtube views or help sell ones services.mantium999 wrote: »
For the sake of full disclosure, as you seem to be highly interested in this topic and her work. Do you by chance have a personal connection to this Dr. Patrick?
Clever method of attacking the OP.
Quite frankly, i regularly ban and/or hand out strikes on a daily basis for self promotion or advertising.0 -
Actually, its a valid question. I couldnt tell you how often people come on to this forum to help promote youtube views or help sell ones services.mantium999 wrote: »
For the sake of full disclosure, as you seem to be highly interested in this topic and her work. Do you by chance have a personal connection to this Dr. Patrick?
Clever method of attacking the OP.
Quite frankly, i regularly ban and/or hand out strikes on a daily basis for self promotion or advertising.
This. The OP has made multiple references to the work of a particular doc. I myself have little knowledge in the topic at hand, and enjoy learning. Seems reasonable, when a person seems passionate about a particular source of information to try qualifying the reason for that passion, so that others can assess the validity of the information being provided. And while he did link a couple of other sources of information, those posts didn't include the same level of defense/passion as the posts that include discussion of Dr. Patrick. Wasn't in any way intended to attack anyone, simply curious why one particular doc is held in such high regard. Simple curiosity.0 -
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There are two primary factors driving cancer incident rates - increased life span and increased detection.
Third one: bigger population.0 -
I don't think there's any harm in taking a mulit-vitamin along with eating well. I take one. I believe the problem is that people that don't eat well take vitamins believing they reach correct RDA with them when that may not be the entire truth.
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