Why the study that showed taking vitamins don't work, is wrong.
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SherryTeach wrote: »I only take calcium with vitamin D and I'm not even sure if that is going to make that much difference in my old lady bones.
@SherryTeach I read a blog post just now by Aaron E. Carroll (about this study) and thought you'd be interested:
What the hell are we doing? – Vitamin D edition0 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »SherryTeach wrote: »I only take calcium with vitamin D and I'm not even sure if that is going to make that much difference in my old lady bones.
@SherryTeach I read a blog post just now by Aaron E. Carroll (about this study) and thought you'd be interested:
What the hell are we doing? – Vitamin D edition
I just recently started taking a calcium /vitD supplement on advice of my mums doctor. My mum has a slight case of osteoarthritis, as did her mum. So her doc told her that myself and my sister should start taking it now to hopefully prevent osteoarthritis in the future...
I honestly don't know who to believe anymore...
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This is the expert I follow on this subject:
According to Essential Science IndicatorsSM from Thomson Reuters, the work of Dr. Rui Hai Liu ranks at #4 among the 2,902 researchers that currently make up the top 1% in Agricultural Sciences. His record in this field includes 53 papers cited a total of 2,700 times between January 1, 2001 and August 31, 2011.
See interview here with description of some of his work:
http://archive.sciencewatch.com/inter/aut/2012/12-jan/12janLiu/
His research goes far beyond simple vitamins. After reading his studies, I'm convinced vitamins are a waste of money.
Has anyone read up on vitamin manufacturing? It's really quite fascinating.0 -
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ScreeField wrote: »This is the expert I follow on this subject:
According to Essential Science IndicatorsSM from Thomson Reuters, the work of Dr. Rui Hai Liu ranks at #4 among the 2,902 researchers that currently make up the top 1% in Agricultural Sciences. His record in this field includes 53 papers cited a total of 2,700 times between January 1, 2001 and August 31, 2011.
See interview here with description of some of his work:
http://archive.sciencewatch.com/inter/aut/2012/12-jan/12janLiu/
Saving this quote for the next weekly clean/organic thread...What we found was that the processed tomatoes actually had higher antioxidant activity than the unprocessed ones.0 -
And for the inevitable next "bread will kill you" thread...Because the sweet corn results turned out to be different after processing, it prompted us to look at other whole grains. We looked at both the free form and bound form of antioxidants, which is something previous researchers hadn't done. As a result, they dramatically under-estimated the antioxidant content of whole grains—roughly by 85% in corn, 76% in wheat and 75% in oats....0
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So if your blood work comes back with no deficiencies, do you think there is a benefit of taking a multivitamin? I tend to do most of my research on www.examine.com ... And most supplements don't provide much value, especially when you have a diverse eating pattern.
And for some reason i couldnt get through the first 3 mins.. she is just annoying.
But i would also caution about putting all your eggs in one YouTube video. You truly want validate from multiple sources to see if its credible.
Going to bump my question.
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most people don't get enough of those two specific things- in which case you can take those two specific things.christinev297 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »SherryTeach wrote: »I only take calcium with vitamin D and I'm not even sure if that is going to make that much difference in my old lady bones.
@SherryTeach I read a blog post just now by Aaron E. Carroll (about this study) and thought you'd be interested:
What the hell are we doing? – Vitamin D edition
I just recently started taking a calcium /vitD supplement on advice of my mums doctor. My mum has a slight case of osteoarthritis, as did her mum. So her doc told her that myself and my sister should start taking it now to hopefully prevent osteoarthritis in the future...
I honestly don't know who to believe anymore...
An actual multivitamen isn't the same- and across the board is a waste of money- you don't need 3/4 of the sh^t that's in there if you're eating a varied diet.
Companies like to put a hella lot of importance on the micro aspect of what we need to sell you something- and the reality is you don't need it.
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Yes, if you're deficient, vitamins can help you with that.
You go to the doctor, he runs the blood and says, "Hey, you have no vitamin D! Start taking this supplement." You go get it and start taking it and there is a good chance that your D will go up.
Something can always be wrong that causes you to be low and you can't bring it up. Some cancer people have a hell of time with Vitamin D, even when they take supplements.
But supplements are a very good idea when the doctor tells you to take them.
Skipping the doctor's recommendation because something googled or read here was different...it would be very, very foolish.
These people who use the word "research" in place of "google" are not people you should be trusting to guide you as far as your health is concerned.
Listen to your doctor and take your vitamins.0 -
ScreeField wrote: »This is the expert I follow on this subject:
According to Essential Science IndicatorsSM from Thomson Reuters, the work of Dr. Rui Hai Liu ranks at #4 among the 2,902 researchers that currently make up the top 1% in Agricultural Sciences. His record in this field includes 53 papers cited a total of 2,700 times between January 1, 2001 and August 31, 2011.
See interview here with description of some of his work:
http://archive.sciencewatch.com/inter/aut/2012/12-jan/12janLiu/
Saving this quote for the next weekly clean/organic thread...What we found was that the processed tomatoes actually had higher antioxidant activity than the unprocessed ones.
If you read the study, processing referred to cooking the tomatoes at 88 degrees C for 2, 15, or 30 minutes. So, in the above quote, you can sub "cooked" for "processed". Basically, the article compared cooked vs raw. There is no reference to organic or "clean".0 -
rachou_101 wrote: »Vitamin supplements are only beneficial if your body is lacking a specific vitamin. If your body doesn't lack vitamins and you take vitamin supplements, your body is going to get rid of it! Simple. This is what I have learnt at university anyway.
not exactly rocket science, is it? people eating a balanced diet are unlikely to need them.
I might start taking D in winter, because i'm a brit and we don't have sunshine.0 -
ScreeField wrote: »ScreeField wrote: »This is the expert I follow on this subject:
According to Essential Science IndicatorsSM from Thomson Reuters, the work of Dr. Rui Hai Liu ranks at #4 among the 2,902 researchers that currently make up the top 1% in Agricultural Sciences. His record in this field includes 53 papers cited a total of 2,700 times between January 1, 2001 and August 31, 2011.
See interview here with description of some of his work:
http://archive.sciencewatch.com/inter/aut/2012/12-jan/12janLiu/
Saving this quote for the next weekly clean/organic thread...What we found was that the processed tomatoes actually had higher antioxidant activity than the unprocessed ones.
If you read the study, processing referred to cooking the tomatoes at 88 degrees C for 2, 15, or 30 minutes. So, in the above quote, you can sub "cooked" for "processed". Basically, the article compared cooked vs raw. There is no reference to organic or "clean".
Awesome - can use it in the next Raw thread, too! :drinker:
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'vitamins' is a broad brush.
the gov recommends folic acid for anyone pregnant or trying o get pregnant. that effects of a deficiency are so dire, and excess just pees out, that it's not worth taking the chance on.
the chances of lacking in C these days are pretty slim. it's added to all sorts of food, and ascorbic acid is a common preservative. taking C supplements just strikes me as money down the drain.0 -
No matter how good your diet is, you can't get the full rdas of all the vitamins in a single day unless you go way over on calories on standard grocery store food. Actually I doubt you could stomach that much food. So that means that you have to supplement the rest.
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Vitamin C is very important and most people don't get enough. The book Doctor Yourself uses high doses of vitamin C to help treat several diseases and he has thousands of references that show it works.glovepuppet wrote: »'vitamins' is a broad brush.
the gov recommends folic acid for anyone pregnant or trying o get pregnant. that effects of a deficiency are so dire, and excess just pees out, that it's not worth taking the chance on.
the chances of lacking in C these days are pretty slim. it's added to all sorts of food, and ascorbic acid is a common preservative. taking C supplements just strikes me as money down the drain.
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TheDevastator wrote: »
Vitamin C is very important and most people don't get enough. The book Doctor Yourself uses high doses of vitamin C to help treat several diseases and he has thousands of references that show it works.glovepuppet wrote: »'vitamins' is a broad brush.
the gov recommends folic acid for anyone pregnant or trying o get pregnant. that effects of a deficiency are so dire, and excess just pees out, that it's not worth taking the chance on.
the chances of lacking in C these days are pretty slim. it's added to all sorts of food, and ascorbic acid is a common preservative. taking C supplements just strikes me as money down the drain.
I would want to see the trials he references before commenting on that.
but I will say, something being used medicinally in the event of a specific illness is not the same as proof that all can and should take it everyday.
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TheDevastator wrote: »
Vitamin C is very important and most people don't get enough. The book Doctor Yourself uses high doses of vitamin C to help treat several diseases and he has thousands of references that show it works.glovepuppet wrote: »'vitamins' is a broad brush.
the gov recommends folic acid for anyone pregnant or trying o get pregnant. that effects of a deficiency are so dire, and excess just pees out, that it's not worth taking the chance on.
the chances of lacking in C these days are pretty slim. it's added to all sorts of food, and ascorbic acid is a common preservative. taking C supplements just strikes me as money down the drain.
Most people get way more vitamin C than needed because everything has it and what doesn't have it is enriched with it.0 -
That would make too much sense. It's a vitamin you should be getting it every day.glovepuppet wrote: »TheDevastator wrote: »
Vitamin C is very important and most people don't get enough. The book Doctor Yourself uses high doses of vitamin C to help treat several diseases and he has thousands of references that show it works.glovepuppet wrote: »'vitamins' is a broad brush.
the gov recommends folic acid for anyone pregnant or trying o get pregnant. that effects of a deficiency are so dire, and excess just pees out, that it's not worth taking the chance on.
the chances of lacking in C these days are pretty slim. it's added to all sorts of food, and ascorbic acid is a common preservative. taking C supplements just strikes me as money down the drain.
I would want to see the trials he references before commenting on that.
but I will say, something being used medicinally in the event of a specific illness is not the same as proof that all can and should take it everyday.
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stevencloser wrote: »TheDevastator wrote: »
Vitamin C is very important and most people don't get enough. The book Doctor Yourself uses high doses of vitamin C to help treat several diseases and he has thousands of references that show it works.glovepuppet wrote: »'vitamins' is a broad brush.
the gov recommends folic acid for anyone pregnant or trying o get pregnant. that effects of a deficiency are so dire, and excess just pees out, that it's not worth taking the chance on.
the chances of lacking in C these days are pretty slim. it's added to all sorts of food, and ascorbic acid is a common preservative. taking C supplements just strikes me as money down the drain.
Most people get way more vitamin C than needed because everything has it and what doesn't have it is enriched with it.
I would disagree. I'm not sure what country you are from but people eating the standard American diet would fail to get enough most days. Also some health gurus like Dr. Saul would and do argue that the rda is pretty low for vitamin C.0 -
You are missing magnesium which helps transport calcium to the proper parts of the body. Or else you may end up with bone spurs or calcified organs.christinev297 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »SherryTeach wrote: »I only take calcium with vitamin D and I'm not even sure if that is going to make that much difference in my old lady bones.
@SherryTeach I read a blog post just now by Aaron E. Carroll (about this study) and thought you'd be interested:
What the hell are we doing? – Vitamin D edition
I just recently started taking a calcium /vitD supplement on advice of my mums doctor. My mum has a slight case of osteoarthritis, as did her mum. So her doc told her that myself and my sister should start taking it now to hopefully prevent osteoarthritis in the future...
I honestly don't know who to believe anymore...
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A single glass of orange juice alreay has more than 1.5 times the RDA in vitamin C.0
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TheDevastator wrote: »
You are missing magnesium which helps transport calcium to the proper parts of the body. Or else you may end up with bone spurs or calcified organs.christinev297 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »SherryTeach wrote: »I only take calcium with vitamin D and I'm not even sure if that is going to make that much difference in my old lady bones.
@SherryTeach I read a blog post just now by Aaron E. Carroll (about this study) and thought you'd be interested:
What the hell are we doing? – Vitamin D edition
I just recently started taking a calcium /vitD supplement on advice of my mums doctor. My mum has a slight case of osteoarthritis, as did her mum. So her doc told her that myself and my sister should start taking it now to hopefully prevent osteoarthritis in the future...
I honestly don't know who to believe anymore...
yes, I take magnesium most nights.
As for vitamin C , because of years of smoking. My dentist/periodontist has me on 20g vit C daily, which is a mega dose!
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TheDevastator wrote: »
For men and women it's generally different. Women, they tend to look at potassium, magnesium, and iron as well as what you mentioned.0 -
OK, so I tried watching the first video, made it about 1:30 into it before I had to turn it off. If you read the words on the right of the screen as she's talking she uses phrases like omg, burns me up like a hot pepper in the sahara desert etc. How am I supposed to take your research seriously if you're also trying to talk to me like I'm in high school?
As for whether I take supplements. I take a multivitamin with iron, fish oil, and glucosamine and chondroitin. The multi with iron helped when I was finding that I was lacking reaching my iron goals from food, and made me feel less exhausted every day, so I will continue to take it.
I was having a lot of joint pain in my sacral area so I tried taking the glucosamine and chondroitin, I've found that made that pain go away when nothing else seemed to make a difference and if I stop taking it after a couple days the pain comes back. So I will also continue to take that. The fish oil was suggested to me by a pharmacist due to it supporting the glucosamine and chondroitin, and I figure it can't hurt.0 -
I have pernicious anemia, and my hematology doc has given me a script for a daily multivitamin. I also have to take massive doses of b12, and iron. I feel better when I take the multivitamin, so honestly, it depends. If your body has gone stupid for some reason, then they can benifit you. I also recall an experiment by a college kid, who made a vitamin "mixture" that he called soyent green. He lived off of it for quite a long time with no ill effects.0
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ldrosophila wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »What are you talking about, there is no 50k pledge on her patreon. The highest you can donate on there is $1500 a year. And no one is forcing anyone to do it. How liberal are you that you are against anyone trying to produce income to invest in her research? Holy *kitten*.
That's how much she gets total in a year from patreon. $46,505.40 to be exact as of this writing.
can someone educate me as to why a legitimate researcher would be using crowdfunding as a source to fund research vs. the traditional methods of finding a grant? I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to how research studies are funded.
Oh nevermind upon further reading it appears she's using that money to continue to disseminate her information to the public and continue making articles and possible find time to write a book. Appears it is not to actually produce any research.
Meh...still seems hokey to me
Considering that the grant approval rates for the NIH have dropped to below 4% last year, the approval rates for NSF were below 3% last time I checked, and many researchers I know are now looking to the DOD (horrors!) for funding, I'm kind of surprised that there hasn't been more of an interest in crowdfunding for research. I'd think it'd be particularly useful for research into rare diseases. That has a tough time getting funding from either government or pharma sources.
Maybe it's the amount of money that would be needed that's the roadblock. Tens of thousands just doesn't cut it these days.0 -
TheDevastator wrote: »No matter how good your diet is, you can't get the full rdas of all the vitamins in a single day unless you go way over on calories on standard grocery store food.
If that is true, then the RDAs are by definition too high.
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The New York Attorney General did a study earlier this year that found 4 out of 5 supplements do not contain the ingredients that are listed on the nutrition label. The supplements they tested were from GNC, Walgreens, CVS, etc0
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And that is the inherent problem as well. Since there is little regulation and manufacturing is mainly in China, it's almost guaranteed you aren't getting what you paid for, unless you get one that is certified by the USP. And its even worse when there are proprietary blends involved.The New York Attorney General did a study earlier this year that found 4 out of 5 supplements do not contain the ingredients that are listed on the nutrition label. The supplements they tested were from GNC, Walgreens, CVS, etc
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