Why the study that showed taking vitamins don't work, is wrong.

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Replies

  • Horrorfox
    Horrorfox Posts: 204 Member
    edited August 2015
    @7lenny7 A video that cites sources, but ok Lenny. Thanks for the insightful discussion. What a great discourse. You must be lovely at dinner parties.

    Have a good day.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
    I found the video interesting. Thanks for posting :+1:
  • dewd2
    dewd2 Posts: 2,449 Member
    I had no idea who Joe Rogan was so I did some research. This is the same guy who thinks the Apollo moon landings are fake? And some nonsense about the World Trade Center collapse? Sorry, but suddenly Dr. Oz seems more credible.

  • 7lenny7
    7lenny7 Posts: 3,412 Member
    Here's a source I trust. The Mayo Clinic. Let's see what they recommend:

    http://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/take-vitamin-supplements-with-caution-some-may-actually-cause-harm/
    there is increasing evidence against taking most supplements for general health or disease prevention. There are exceptions — such as calcium and vitamin D for bone health — but even the exceptions should be approached with caution.
    and
    Another reason people take supplements is to help prevent serious diseases. Studies have consistently shown that diets high in antioxidant-rich fruits, vegetables and other plant foods are associated with lower rates of cancer and heart disease. However, studies looking at supplements, including antioxidants such as beta carotene and vitamins A and E, haven't shown much benefit and there is some evidence they may actually cause harm.

    By hey...if you feel they're beneficial to you, by all means, go for it.
  • Debmal77
    Debmal77 Posts: 4,770 Member
    christinev297 wrote: »
    I found the video interesting. Thanks for posting :+1:

    Same.
  • Pinnacle_IAO
    Pinnacle_IAO Posts: 608 Member
    dewd2 wrote: »
    I had no idea who Joe Rogan was so I did some research. This is the same guy who thinks the Apollo moon landings are fake? And some nonsense about the World Trade Center collapse? Sorry, but suddenly Dr. Oz seems more credible.
    Joe Rogan entertained the possibility that the moon landings were fake, but finally conceded that the Moon Landing was most likely real. In Joe's words, he "couldn't find a smart person that believed in the moon hoax"

    Don't let his childlike enthusiasm throw you off. He's just a curious guy looking at life and asking questions.
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,533 Member
    edited August 2015
    br3adman wrote: »
    You can live off just vitamins if you're super obese. That proves that they work....

    ...in the absence of food.

    It doesn't demonstrate they add anything when actual food is actually being consumed.

    I'm not taking a position either way, just saying.
  • AlabasterVerve
    AlabasterVerve Posts: 3,171 Member
    "Each video is loaded with tons of valuable content on how to hack your health to extend your healthspan." -Dr. Rhonda Patrick

    "I've made a bunch of videos on topics like how using the sauna may increase longevity and may improve other things like athletic performance, what the effects of supplemental antioxidants on cancer, how DHA in krill oil is used by brain, how diet and lifestyle influence aging and brain function, how to personalize your diet based on your genes, my various healthy recipes, and responses to headlines such as those claiming that cancer is just due to bad luck." -Dr. Rhonda Patrick

    This is a shtick, not science -- zero credibility, IMO.
  • Horrorfox
    Horrorfox Posts: 204 Member
    AlabasterVerve wrote: »
    "Each video is loaded with tons of valuable content on how to hack your health to extend your healthspan." -Dr. Rhonda Patrick

    "I've made a bunch of videos on topics like how using the sauna may increase longevity and may improve other things like athletic performance, what the effects of supplemental antioxidants on cancer, how DHA in krill oil is used by brain, how diet and lifestyle influence aging and brain function, how to personalize your diet based on your genes, my various healthy recipes, and responses to headlines such as those claiming that cancer is just due to bad luck." -Dr. Rhonda Patrick

    This is a shtick, not science -- zero credibility, IMO.

    @AlabasterVerve you mean marketing? And yet, she's not selling anything, only promoting her website, and YouTube channel. That doesn't mean she's not promoting science. That's like saying Neil deGrasse Tyson shouldn't be taken serious when he uses short talking points on the benefits to human space exploration.
  • Horrorfox
    Horrorfox Posts: 204 Member
    @AlabasterVerve at least try to watch the first long form video (JRE 459) posted before making a judgement.
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,533 Member
    Horrorfox wrote: »
    @AlabasterVerve at least try to watch the first long form video (JRE 459) posted before making a judgement.

    Can you summarize?
  • Horrorfox
    Horrorfox Posts: 204 Member
    Mr_Knight wrote: »
    Horrorfox wrote: »
    @AlabasterVerve at least try to watch the first long form video (JRE 459) posted before making a judgement.

    Can you summarize?

    @Mr_Knight
    It's a 3 hour podcast. Lol.

    But in RE: to the thread title, skip to 32 minutes in and listen for 10-15 minutes. Prior to that she talks about her history, and her work in cancer research. It's literally 3 hours of knowledge, that you'd probably want to listen to a few times to take in.
  • conqueringsquidlette
    conqueringsquidlette Posts: 383 Member
    edited August 2015
    SherryTeach wrote: »
    I just may give up the calcium as well: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/08/thinking-twice-about-calcium-supplements-2/?_r=0

    I will keep mine since it seems to offset the b12 deficiency that metformin can cause.

    http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/23/9/1227

    And my prenatals, because of that whole trying to get pregnant thing. Yay for folic acid!
  • isulo_kura
    isulo_kura Posts: 821 Member
    edited August 2015
    Horrorfox wrote: »
    Once again this message board plagues itself with ignorance.

    @7lenny7 "I think"

    Did you bother listening to the video(s), or did you just see the word vitamin in the title, and then reply with your opinion?

    @isulo_kura

    Because someone actually showing data backed up by science means they're working for a supplement company?

    @Horrorfox I never said that I just asked a question. Also because people do not agree with your viewpoint does not mean ignorance. It means we have an opinion and don't immediately except some spoonfed you tube video. Also a few videos quoting a point of view and where she thinks other's science is flawed does not mean backed by science. There's some interesting points in the videos 'which I have watched' but one point of view does not equal definitive proof of anything. I can find dozens of studies 'backed by science' saying the total opposite.

    In reality it all comes down to common sense. If you don't have a medical condition and can't get all your nutrition via food you're obviously doing something wrong. If you wish to throw money at the supplement companies that's fine your choice but remember when looking at science one persons point of view rarely proves anything. It's the body of science that has an effect. From my reading the body of science is that multi vitamins are generally pretty much waste of time.
  • LKArgh
    LKArgh Posts: 5,172 Member
    edited August 2015
    As a scientist myself, scientists publish their work through peer reviewed journals. So, if this lady has done research proving that multivitamins are useful for the average person, I expect she has published her work and someone can provide the links to the peer reviewed medical journals where this research has published. If not, this is just one more scientist trying to get famous and make some money by looking for a gullible audience.
  • amusedmonkey
    amusedmonkey Posts: 10,331 Member
    One point that seems to always be ignored on these threads. These recommendations (or recommendations against) are for the general public. Do they stand accurate for those who are dieting (artificial famine) or those who are more physically active than the average person?

    I don't take vitamins because of the price but I'm seriously considering it. Throughout my 2 years of dieting I have had low iron readings 4 times (treated it acutely with shots) and my B12 is almost always in the deficiency range (before dieting it used to be borderline). Those are just the ones I tested. I'm 100% sure the ones I haven't tested have suffered as well. Note that this is coming from a person who generally eats nutrient-rich foods.
  • Horrorfox
    Horrorfox Posts: 204 Member
    @aggelikik On the first post, I linked the about her profile on her website. On the bottom of the page shows the papers she's had published.
  • DoogCampbell
    DoogCampbell Posts: 53 Member
    So I watched the initial video. What I saw was a peer - regardless of your view on this women's credentials or reputation I consider her learning adequate to equate her with the authors of the original piece - review of an article published in a medical journal. What I saw was a fellow scientist that was unhappy with the work proposed to her and stating a case for why she felt that the conclusions drawn were potentially flawed. What I did not see was someone saying we should take multi-vitamins, just someone that said the to stop taking them and stop researching it was potentially a bad idea based off the flaws in a journal article.

    There seems to be so much assumption that just because she says the journal article was bad, that she was somehow saying that we should all take multi-vitamins, in fact what I drew was that based off that article we shouldn't just throw all future ideas in the bin. She suggested that in fact more research was necessary (I have to agree with that) and that we should stop writing articles with sensationalist headings.

    Too often we twist the results of studies to fit our own beliefs or generalize them too much that they start getting applied to things outside their scope. We all have a duty to try and recognise what is being said before we act on it. To me its not about reputation, its about good scientific process and interpretation. I believe that Dr Rhonda found flaws in the approach the article had taken and the conclusions it had reached, however she didn't use those flaws to suggest that the opposite was true, just that we should look more closely and apply better science.
  • Horrorfox
    Horrorfox Posts: 204 Member
    @DoogCampbell That was the initial video. Try taking a bit of time to listen to the other videos I posted, in order.
  • LKArgh
    LKArgh Posts: 5,172 Member
    Horrorfox wrote: »
    @aggelikik On the first post, I linked the about her profile on her website. On the bottom of the page shows the papers she's had published.

    These papers do not appear related to the topic of multivitamin supplements and their effect on the average person though.

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