Opinions on HIGH fat, MODERATE protein, LOW carb diet!
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Wanted to read this article but can't get to it. Takes me to FB Health Coach Penny, but where's the article?
Thanks
Which one?
This is the analysis I referenced. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1373635/0 -
I've had succes doing
15-20% carbs
30% Fat
55% Protein
No matter what you do make sure they are Healthy Fats. I've heard of these higher fat diets and I don't buy.
I am assuming that this guy doesn't know what kind of fat is healthy. Stay away from trans fat, but learn that saturated fat is OK.
Actually I really do... I've kept my borderline cholesterol levels in check for years by just avoiding unhealthy fats and adding healthy fats to my diet. I do eat lean meat and fish but also keep in mind vegetables have protein too. 100 calories of broccoli has more protein than 100 calories of beef.
Bottom line your going to have to tweak it, what works for one person may not work for another but as long as your in a calorie deficit you will lose.
Good Luck...0 -
Question: Do you feel like you miss fiber at all? I mean.. do you have a hard time... you know, pooping?????
With adequate fat and fluid intake there is no problems with pooping...............fiber is highly overrated.0 -
Question: Do you feel like you miss fiber at all? I mean.. do you have a hard time... you know, pooping?????
With adequate fat and fluid intake there is no problems with pooping...............fiber is highly overrated.
Heh I missed that question! For the first two weeks on LCHF I had the runs! And now things go just fine (codeine use aside). I use most of my carbs for leafy green veg and salad and get more fibre than some carb loving peeps.0 -
Stanford University School Of Medicine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eREuZEdMAVo&feature=youtu.be&t=39m27s
Have fun with the ping-pong match. I'm sure we'll solve this on an internet message board... </snark>0 -
Edit because I misread.
The first article is 10 years old, and lower fat than this post is talking about. Even so (from the abstract, haven't read the whole article yetBased on these data, a very low carbohydrate diet is more effective than a low fat diet for short-term weight loss and, over 6 months
Perhaps the 44% more protein they were consuming may have had something to do with that? And even though consuming more protein, they still lost more lbm.Stanford University School Of Medicine:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eREuZEdMAVo&feature=youtu.be&t=39m27s
Lol the A to Z study, when you read the full study, notice anything odd?0 -
Edit because I misread.
The first article is 10 years old, and lower fat than this post is talking about. Even so (from the abstract, haven't read the whole article yetBased on these data, a very low carbohydrate diet is more effective than a low fat diet for short-term weight loss and, over 6 months
Perhaps the 44% more protein they were consuming may have had something to do with that? And even though consuming more protein, they still lost more lbm.
[/quote]
Haha exactly, this isn't a well controlled study in terms of macros. I didn't read that far in last night. It doesn't show anything.
I'm out after this, because you haven't shown me anything that indicate carbs are muscle sparing. I'll stand by the original study I posted that the percentage of fat lost compared to LBM is higher in low carb diets than low fat.0 -
Edit because I misread.
The first article is 10 years old, and lower fat than this post is talking about. Even so (from the abstract, haven't read the whole article yetBased on these data, a very low carbohydrate diet is more effective than a low fat diet for short-term weight loss and, over 6 months
Perhaps the 44% more protein they were consuming may have had something to do with that? And even though consuming more protein, they still lost more lbm.
Haha exactly, this isn't a well controlled study in terms of macros. I didn't read that far in last night. It doesn't show anything.
I'm out after this, because you haven't shown me anything that indicate carbs are muscle sparing. I'll stand by the original study I posted that the percentage of fat lost compared to LBM is higher in low carb diets than low fat.
[/quote]
Did you read the full study you are referencing that I posted a link to? take a look at group A and C for results.
And as for the one I posted not showing anything, the low carb group had significantly greater protein intake yet still lost more lbm?0 -
I've been trying really hard to shoot for this, but being vegetarian I'm finding it pretty difficult.
On my list are: eggs, avocado, nuts, butter, coconut and MCT oils, and greens, and full fat yogurt and cottage cheese.
I know it's a long shot, but can anybody think of anything else to add to the list?
Eggs can make or break your keto diet depending on your diet. If not Tofu will be your main center.
-Tofu seems to average about 100 calories, 10 grams of protein, 5 grams of fat, and 2~3 Carbs with about 1 being fiber depending on brand. Needs to visit store to determine this...
- Natural peanut butter. PB2 if possible.
- whey protein shakes (lowest carb count you can find)
- higj fiberous veggies ( broccoli, spinach, lettuce, cauliflower, avocado). For salads you can add high fat dressing such as ranch, or blue cheese (preferably home made to avoid added preservatives)
- almonds, walnuts, pecans, macadamia nuts
- evoo, fish oil, flax oils, soy sauce.in moderation, mayo, mustard, Dijon mustard
- flax meal
- Full fat cheeses &cottage cheese in moderation
- heavy cream/redi-whip in moderation
Found this meal idea from bodybuilding.com:
-tofu fried in olive oil with asparagus
-cheese cubes and almonds (snack)
-egg salad (whole eggs mixed with mustard and mayo)
- salad with lettuce, asparagus, brocolli, ranch dressing and eggs, but you can add walnuts or raw tofu.
-cottage cheese with a handful of walnuts.
-stir fry with tofu or eggs
-veggie burgers with 1 ounce full fat cheese and 1 tbsp mayo (look for lowest possible carb veggie burger)
Awesome, thanks, that gives me a couple more ideas
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Worked for me!!!!0
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In to read for later. Thanks for posting!0
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I've never heard of this approach... very interesting! Will definitely check it out later0
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I'm at something like 60/30/10 f/p/c (I haven't tracked in a while), and have done very well by it. I think I'm also starting to find that lower carbs has been able to let me lose weight, where I couldn't before, for a variety of reasons.
I found this paper, which is an interesting (and short) read (it's a little older; there's quite a bit of research that has been done more recently, but even 10 years ago, such diets showed promise):
http://ccjm.org/content/69/11/849.full.pdf0 -
I try and keep my carbs under 100g a day. I eat full fats (avacado, no "light/fat free" anything, olive oil). I eat as much protein as my mouth can handle, but i still watch my portion. I would love to eat 6 pieces of bacon, but i restrict myself to 2. I find my calorie count is really low, so when I restrict my carbs I have a hard time reaching my calorie count. I counteract this by having some whey protein powder and water. No fruit, tons and tons of veggies (even then, watch the carbs in corn and other veggies). Don't forget your multi-vitamin. P.S. I don't eat dairy at all. I have a small portion of soy cheese in my eggs in the morning and that's about it.0
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bump0
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You mean the low carb group wasn't actually consuming low carbs and the low fat group wasn't actually consuming low fat....from memory, it's been a few years since I read that study. Basically a very poor controlled study.
Edit because I misread.
The first article is 10 years old, and lower fat than this post is talking about. Even so (from the abstract, haven't read the whole article yetBased on these data, a very low carbohydrate diet is more effective than a low fat diet for short-term weight loss and, over 6 months
Perhaps the 44% more protein they were consuming may have had something to do with that? And even though consuming more protein, they still lost more lbm.Stanford University School Of Medicine:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eREuZEdMAVo&feature=youtu.be&t=39m27s
Lol the A to Z study, when you read the full study, notice anything odd?0 -
Wow, 1971 ! Interesting......
"Weight loss, fat loss, and percent weight
loss as fat appeared to be inversely related to
the level of carbohydrate in the isocaloric, isoprotein diets."
so low carb means more weight loss, more fat loss and a bigger % of weight loss as fat. Cool.
Table 7 shows low carb group C retaining nitrogen or in balance after week 2.
These small studies are nice where they report individual data.0 -
The thing is, I read that protein can also be turned into glucose, and fat can't, so by upping the fat and lowering protein, your body would more efficiently use your body fat for fuel
Sorry but this is Broscience... the human body doesn't function this way and you can't force it to change how it works.
Technically speaking, your body doesn't "burn" protein, glucose, OR fat as energy. The energy your cells actually use comes from breaking the chemical bonds of a molecule called ATP (Adenosine triphosphate), which happens during something known as the "Krebs cycle" that takes place at the cellular level, in the mitochondria of your cells. Your body can use all 3 dietary macronutrients, fat, protein, and carbohyrdates, to generate ATP molecules, so it really doesn't make much practical sense to think in terms of whether your body turns protein into glucose, or into fat, etc.
Carbs
This is the fastest, most metabolically efficient source of glycogen replacement for your body. However it is also the fastest to be stored as fat if ingested in excess. Depending on your fitness goals the macro % will vary.
Protein
Protein is the human body's second choice for glycogen replenishment. Why? Because it takes less energy to process protein than fat (it takes 4 cals of energy to process 1g of protein). This is why doing just pure cardio actually burns muscle tissue. Why do you think marathoners are usually so thin? It's more efficient for the body to convert muscle proteins into ATP than fat stores (and the body is all about efficiency).
Protein has a single purpose in your body... to build and repair damaged muscle. This is why bodybuilders and power-lifters consume so much protein. They are constantly micro-tearing the muscle fibers and the protein they consume is used to repair and grow new muscle fibers. Again, depending on your fitness goals your macro % will vary, but a standard rule of thumb is 1g per 1 pound of lean body weight. This is the problem most fall into... they forget it's LEAN body weight not total body weight.
Fat
Fat has gotten a bad rap. Sad too because fat is essential for healthy neurological function. There's a reason you get into a 'fog' when on a low fat diet. When you restrict the body's intake of healthy fats, your brain cannot function at it's optimal level. This is where the bodybuilding stereotype of 'meathead' comes from. Bodybuilders are on a very low fat diet when training for a show and as they restrict their fat intake more and more they tend to 'get stupid'... it's just a physiological fact and it will happen to anyone, not just the lunks. On the flip side... ever hear the saying "fish is brain food"? Well it's true. Fish/seafood are filled with Omega 3/6/9 fats. Arguably the best fats to consume. Since fats are essential for neurological efficiency the more fish you eat the better for your brain. Does it make you 'smarter'? Well, no. But it does allow your brain to function at its peak levels. The downside to fat is that it is the least efficient source of glycogen replenishment and therefore will always be the body's last choice for energy. It takes 9 calories to burn 1g of body fat versus the 4 calories for 1g of protein. Your macro % will vary but should never go above 30%.
Now all this being said, this is why it is crucial to have some sort of strength training in your workout regimen. If you are using your muscle groups to perform 'work' your body will know this and says to itself, "Hey, this guy/girl is asking us to perform these lifting tasks daily. That's cool, but now he/she wants us to go for a long run. Okay, well since we need all the muscle we can get for the work we are doing every day we can't burn the muscle for energy so let's use the carbs. Oh crap, no carbs available? Ok then, guess we have to use the fat stores, ugh." I know it sounds silly, but that's how it works for most people. It's also why it takes forever to lose actual body fat.
So what's the best 'diet' for you? As others will tell you, it completely depends on your goals and your fitness regimen. Speaking for myself... I do CrossFit 5 days/week combined with Strength Training 3 days/week. I'm also currently switching to a Paleo diet and I'm a Type 2 Diabetic. The recommended macros for the average CrossFitter is 40C/30P/30F. This is fine for most people but with MY goals and my Diabetes I must keep my carbs at a lower level to avoid increased blood glucose levels. I also want to promote fat loss but maintain/build lean muscle. So I have dialed my macros to 35C/45P/20F, but I also keep my carbs under 100g/day as my cap. I also adjust them based on my activity level on the weekends. Since I use my weekends as my rest days I reduce my caloric intake slightly and eat less protein, but slightly more carbs and fats to help replenish. Play around with your percentages until you find where you feel energized, alert, and sharp... and you are still accomplishing your fitness goals.
Sorry this was so long, but I really hate broscience and don't want to see anyone get derailed.0 -
The thing is, I read that protein can also be turned into glucose, and fat can't, so by upping the fat and lowering protein, your body would more efficiently use your body fat for fuel
Sorry but this is Broscience... the human body doesn't function this way and you can't force it to change how it works.
Technically speaking, your body doesn't "burn" protein, glucose, OR fat as energy. The energy your cells actually use comes from breaking the chemical bonds of a molecule called ATP (Adenosine triphosphate), which happens during something known as the "Krebs cycle" that takes place at the cellular level, in the mitochondria of your cells. Your body can use all 3 dietary macronutrients, fat, protein, and carbohyrdates, to generate ATP molecules, so it really doesn't make much practical sense to think in terms of whether your body turns protein into glucose, or into fat, etc.
Carbs
This is the fastest, most metabolically efficient source of glycogen replacement for your body. However it is also the fastest to be stored as fat if ingested in excess. Depending on your fitness goals the macro % will vary.
Protein
Protein is the human body's second choice for glycogen replenishment. Why? Because it takes less energy to process protein than fat (it takes 4 cals of energy to process 1g of protein). This is why doing just pure cardio actually burns muscle tissue. Why do you think marathoners are usually so thin? It's more efficient for the body to convert muscle proteins into ATP than fat stores (and the body is all about efficiency).
Protein has a single purpose in your body... to build and repair damaged muscle. This is why bodybuilders and power-lifters consume so much protein. They are constantly micro-tearing the muscle fibers and the protein they consume is used to repair and grow new muscle fibers. Again, depending on your fitness goals your macro % will vary, but a standard rule of thumb is 1g per 1 pound of lean body weight. This is the problem most fall into... they forget it's LEAN body weight not total body weight.
Fat
Fat has gotten a bad rap. Sad too because fat is essential for healthy neurological function. There's a reason you get into a 'fog' when on a low fat diet. When you restrict the body's intake of healthy fats, your brain cannot function at it's optimal level. This is where the bodybuilding stereotype of 'meathead' comes from. Bodybuilders are on a very low fat diet when training for a show and as they restrict their fat intake more and more they tend to 'get stupid'... it's just a physiological fact and it will happen to anyone, not just the lunks. On the flip side... ever hear the saying "fish is brain food"? Well it's true. Fish/seafood are filled with Omega 3/6/9 fats. Arguably the best fats to consume. Since fats are essential for neurological efficiency the more fish you eat the better for your brain. Does it make you 'smarter'? Well, no. But it does allow your brain to function at its peak levels. The downside to fat is that it is the least efficient source of glycogen replenishment and therefore will always be the body's last choice for energy. It takes 9 calories to burn 1g of body fat versus the 4 calories for 1g of protein. Your macro % will vary but should never go above 30%.
Now all this being said, this is why it is crucial to have some sort of strength training in your workout regimen. If you are using your muscle groups to perform 'work' your body will know this and says to itself, "Hey, this guy/girl is asking us to perform these lifting tasks daily. That's cool, but now he/she wants us to go for a long run. Okay, well since we need all the muscle we can get for the work we are doing every day we can't burn the muscle for energy so let's use the carbs. Oh crap, no carbs available? Ok then, guess we have to use the fat stores, ugh." I know it sounds silly, but that's how it works for most people. It's also why it takes forever to lose actual body fat.
So what's the best 'diet' for you? As others will tell you, it completely depends on your goals and your fitness regimen. Speaking for myself... I do CrossFit 5 days/week combined with Strength Training 3 days/week. I'm also currently switching to a Paleo diet and I'm a Type 2 Diabetic. The recommended macros for the average CrossFitter is 40C/30P/30F. This is fine for most people but with MY goals and my Diabetes I must keep my carbs at a lower level to avoid increased blood glucose levels. I also want to promote fat loss but maintain/build lean muscle. So I have dialed my macros to 35C/45P/20F, but I also keep my carbs under 100g/day as my cap. I also adjust them based on my activity level on the weekends. Since I use my weekends as my rest days I reduce my caloric intake slightly and eat less protein, but slightly more carbs and fats to help replenish. Play around with your percentages until you find where you feel energized, alert, and sharp... and you are still accomplishing your fitness goals.
Sorry this was so long, but I really hate broscience and don't want to see anyone get derailed.
This is awesome, though I'm curious - where do you get the "you should never go over 30% fat" part?0 -
considering that I get pretty much all my carbs from vegetables and fruit that are jam packed with minerals (on weekdays, weekends are different plan) I personally don't see Atkins/high fat as good in the long term. Your body doesn't simply run on calories, we all wish it was just in vs out but it isn't. You need potassium, magnesium etc etc to support normal bodily functions so severely cutting down on food groups isn't safe.
This is my opinion and I feel that of many other MFPers who have done their research.... I faint if I am under 60g carbs for a day, not for me!0
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