I called oatmeal cookies unhealthy and I got blasted - why?
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WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Think of the 'healthiest' food you know of..
Got it?
Good, now eat that food in excessive amounts at the detriment to your calorie and macro intake and it becomes 'unhealthy' for you.
As so many have said and to reiterate, there is no such thing as unhealthy food* only an unhealthy diet.
*assuming it isn't unfit for consumption.
It would be impossible to eat the 'healthiest food I know' up to a calorie intake deemed as unhealthy. For example broccoli it is impossible to eat it up to the point where it goes above my calorie goal due to the reason that it is so low in calories and it is nutritious/filling. However with cookies I can eat a bunch of them way above my calorie goal.. And feel stuffed but probably in few hours I will feel hunger again because the cookie doesn't have much nutrition but is so high in calories. Since there is a difference between these too, I think it is okay to categorize 1 as healthy food and the other as unhealthy. But I still think it is ok to eat unhealthy once in a while, but if you don't differentiate between these 2 in my mind it seems like every food is equally great to eat.
I think you missed the part where they also said "macro intake". You could not, for example, hit a protein macro on broccoli. The point is that no one food, unless eaten to a level where it no longer fits your calorie and macro goals, is inherently unhealthy.0 -
There are no healthy or unhealthy foods, only healthy and or unhealthy diets...WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Think of the 'healthiest' food you know of..
Got it?
Good, now eat that food in excessive amounts at the detriment to your calorie and macro intake and it becomes 'unhealthy' for you.
As so many have said and to reiterate, there is no such thing as unhealthy food* only an unhealthy diet.
*assuming it isn't unfit for consumption.
It would be impossible to eat the 'healthiest food I know' up to a calorie intake deemed as unhealthy. For example broccoli it is impossible to eat it up to the point where it goes above my calorie goal due to the reason that it is so low in calories and it is nutritious/filling. However with cookies I can eat a bunch of them way above my calorie goal.. And feel stuffed but probably in few hours I will feel hunger again because the cookie doesn't have much nutrition but is so high in calories. Since there is a difference between these too, I think it is okay to categorize 1 as healthy food and the other as unhealthy. But I still think it is ok to eat unhealthy once in a while, but if you don't differentiate between these 2 in my mind it seems like every food is equally great to eat.
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WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Think of the 'healthiest' food you know of..
Got it?
Good, now eat that food in excessive amounts at the detriment to your calorie and macro intake and it becomes 'unhealthy' for you.
As so many have said and to reiterate, there is no such thing as unhealthy food* only an unhealthy diet.
*assuming it isn't unfit for consumption.
It would be impossible to eat the 'healthiest food I know' up to a calorie intake deemed as unhealthy. For example broccoli it is impossible to eat it up to the point where it goes above my calorie goal due to the reason that it is so low in calories and it is nutritious/filling. However with cookies I can eat a bunch of them way above my calorie goal.. And feel stuffed but probably in few hours I will feel hunger again because the cookie doesn't have much nutrition but is so high in calories. Since there is a difference between these too, I think it is okay to categorize 1 as healthy food and the other as unhealthy. But I still think it is ok to eat unhealthy once in a while, but if you don't differentiate between these 2 in my mind it seems like every food is equally great to eat.
Actually, the cookie will leave you feeling fuller longer, because fats do that. Broccoli doesn't have long term satiety and you will be hungry again sooner. As far as which one makes you feel full more quickly, from a strictly physics standpoint, the cookie should fill you up faster as the carbs soak up liquid and expand, and it is a denser food. Also the fats are more satisfying. Broccoli doesn't have any of those properties. The ability to eat more of the cookies is due to the pleasure of the taste and the choice to keep eating even though the brain has signaled that the stomach is full.0 -
Nope, that's you making a choice to keep eating.WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Eating hepatitis from the jar is unhealthy.
Non of the items mentioned (barring medical conditions or allergies) are detrimental to health.
Of course too much of the items mentioned is detrimental to health, just as too much of *anything* is.
Too much of celery and Broccoli would not be detrimental for anyone. A diet of regularly eating cookies would cause a difference in your health or weight. So there is a difference between these 2 food groups, they are not the same and it should be OK to acknowledge that.
Actually, if you ate them to exclusion of all other foods, it would be very unhealthy. So the point at which a food becomes unhealthy may differ, but again it's the extraneous factor and not the food itself that is unhealthy.
Brocolli and celery is just 2 examples, no one is going to eat them exclusively. There's a lot of vegetables, grains, meat that can go in your diet and it would be hard to overeat. At some point I can no longer have anymore chicken.. But cookies you can still eat without feeling too full but the total calories you ate will be too high compared to your salad and chicken that made you feel full.
N
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WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Eating hepatitis from the jar is unhealthy.
Non of the items mentioned (barring medical conditions or allergies) are detrimental to health.
Of course too much of the items mentioned is detrimental to health, just as too much of *anything* is.
Too much of celery and Broccoli would not be detrimental for anyone. A diet of regularly eating cookies would cause a difference in your health or weight. So there is a difference between these 2 food groups, they are not the same and it should be OK to acknowledge that.
Broccoli and celergy lack in essential micronutrients such as essential fatty acids and amino acids. So yes it is possible to be malnurished on a diet that you describe. In fact, i know several women who have been hospitalized from this same exact thing. They apparently though going vegetarian just meant cutting out meat but failed to realized its very hard to get essential amino acids without eating a specific combination of protein rich sources or tofu.
So again, its all about the total context of diet. Its not one food vs the other. That argument is just pedantic.0 -
WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Eating hepatitis from the jar is unhealthy.
Non of the items mentioned (barring medical conditions or allergies) are detrimental to health.
Of course too much of the items mentioned is detrimental to health, just as too much of *anything* is.
Too much of celery and Broccoli would not be detrimental for anyone. A diet of regularly eating cookies would cause a difference in your health or weight. So there is a difference between these 2 food groups, they are not the same and it should be OK to acknowledge that.
Actually, if you ate them to exclusion of all other foods, it would be very unhealthy. So the point at which a food becomes unhealthy may differ, but again it's the extraneous factor and not the food itself that is unhealthy.
Brocolli and celery is just 2 examples, no one is going to eat them exclusively. There's a lot of vegetables, grains, meat that can go in your diet and it would be hard to overeat. At some point I can no longer have anymore chicken.. But cookies you can still eat without feeling too full but the total calories you ate will be too high compared to your salad and chicken that made you feel full.
But that's where this is getting confused. No one has ever said to eat nothing but cookies, or broccoli or celery. It's about fitting it in with what else you eat, therefore the food, in a vacuum, is not unhealthy, but the way you fit it into your daily and weekly goals may be.
It's not cookies, but I have a diet of "regularly eating" ice cream. I'm 65lbs down, no longer pre-diabetic and my bloods are perfect. Because it's what I have when I have the calories and macros, and have eaten a crapload of nutrient dense food already.0 -
The cookie is not the problem. Eating too many is...WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Eating hepatitis from the jar is unhealthy.
Non of the items mentioned (barring medical conditions or allergies) are detrimental to health.
Of course too much of the items mentioned is detrimental to health, just as too much of *anything* is.
Too much of celery and Broccoli would not be detrimental for anyone. A diet of regularly eating cookies would cause a difference in your health or weight. So there is a difference between these 2 food groups, they are not the same and it should be OK to acknowledge that.
Actually, if you ate them to exclusion of all other foods, it would be very unhealthy. So the point at which a food becomes unhealthy may differ, but again it's the extraneous factor and not the food itself that is unhealthy.
Brocolli and celery is just 2 examples, no one is going to eat them exclusively. There's a lot of vegetables, grains, meat that can go in your diet and it would be hard to overeat. At some point I can no longer have anymore chicken.. But cookies you can still eat without feeling too full but the total calories you ate will be too high compared to your salad and chicken that made you feel full.
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cookies don't kill people, bad diets and habits kill people.0
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The former is a meal, the latter is a treat. One is not necessarily "better" then the other...WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Eating hepatitis from the jar is unhealthy.
Non of the items mentioned (barring medical conditions or allergies) are detrimental to health.
Of course too much of the items mentioned is detrimental to health, just as too much of *anything* is.
Too much of celery and Broccoli would not be detrimental for anyone. A diet of regularly eating cookies would cause a difference in your health or weight. So there is a difference between these 2 food groups, they are not the same and it should be OK to acknowledge that.
Actually, if you ate them to exclusion of all other foods, it would be very unhealthy. So the point at which a food becomes unhealthy may differ, but again it's the extraneous factor and not the food itself that is unhealthy.
Brocolli and celery is just 2 examples, no one is going to eat them exclusively. There's a lot of vegetables, grains, meat that can go in your diet and it would be hard to overeat. At some point I can no longer have anymore chicken.. But cookies you can still eat without feeling too full but the total calories you ate will be too high compared to your salad and chicken that made you feel full.
But that's where this is getting confused. No one has ever said to eat nothing but cookies, or broccoli or celery. It's about fitting it in with what else you eat, therefore the food, in a vacuum, is not unhealthy, but the way you fit it into your daily and weekly goals may be.
My point wasn't that someone could be eating only cookies or only broccoli. My point is that one is high in calories even if you eat a small amount and might make you feel hungry later vs one that is low in calories you can eat more and it will make you feel full. If I add a cookie to my food diary I will end up feeling hungry later but those calories will be already used up and I won't be able to eat something else. You can eat a big portion of fruit and it will only be like 60 calories and make you full and healthy, meanwhile your small cookie is 100^ calories. How would you teach this to a child who hasn't developed self control yet .. If a child thinks both foods are healthy? You would have to differentiate between the 2 somehow and explain one is better than the other.
In my home we tell our 4 year old son, "if your not hungry for your dinner, you are not hungry for dessert". You can certainly have your cookie, kit kat, ice cream etc., but you have to have dinner first.0 -
WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Eating hepatitis from the jar is unhealthy.
Non of the items mentioned (barring medical conditions or allergies) are detrimental to health.
Of course too much of the items mentioned is detrimental to health, just as too much of *anything* is.
Too much of celery and Broccoli would not be detrimental for anyone. A diet of regularly eating cookies would cause a difference in your health or weight. So there is a difference between these 2 food groups, they are not the same and it should be OK to acknowledge that.
Actually, if you ate them to exclusion of all other foods, it would be very unhealthy. So the point at which a food becomes unhealthy may differ, but again it's the extraneous factor and not the food itself that is unhealthy.
Brocolli and celery is just 2 examples, no one is going to eat them exclusively. There's a lot of vegetables, grains, meat that can go in your diet and it would be hard to overeat. At some point I can no longer have anymore chicken.. But cookies you can still eat without feeling too full but the total calories you ate will be too high compared to your salad and chicken that made you feel full.
But that's where this is getting confused. No one has ever said to eat nothing but cookies, or broccoli or celery. It's about fitting it in with what else you eat, therefore the food, in a vacuum, is not unhealthy, but the way you fit it into your daily and weekly goals may be.
My point wasn't that someone could be eating only cookies or only broccoli. My point is that one is high in calories even if you eat a small amount and might make you feel hungry later vs one that is low in calories you can eat more and it will make you feel full. If I add a cookie to my food diary I will end up feeling hungry later but those calories will be already used up and I won't be able to eat something else. You can eat a big portion of fruit and it will only be like 60 calories and make you full and healthy, meanwhile your small cookie is 100^ calories. How would you teach this to a child who hasn't developed self control yet .. If a child thinks both foods are healthy? You would have to differentiate between the 2 somehow and explain one is better than the other.
You're turning this into a discussion about your personal lack of self-control and your personal feelings of satiety toward cookies. If you are meeting your macro and micro nutrients, then it does not matter if you are meeting them through cookies, broccoli, or fruit. The assumption of this conversation is that you are eating an overall balanced diet. I would rather have the 100 calorie cookie than the 60 calorie serving of fruit (a 60 calorie serving of fruit would most likely not be very much fruit, btw) if I'm just looking for a snack. If you'd rather have the fruit because it makes you feel more sated, that's completely fine. But your feelings towards a specific food does not make it unhealthy.0 -
WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Eating hepatitis from the jar is unhealthy.
Non of the items mentioned (barring medical conditions or allergies) are detrimental to health.
Of course too much of the items mentioned is detrimental to health, just as too much of *anything* is.
Too much of celery and Broccoli would not be detrimental for anyone. A diet of regularly eating cookies would cause a difference in your health or weight. So there is a difference between these 2 food groups, they are not the same and it should be OK to acknowledge that.
Actually, if you ate them to exclusion of all other foods, it would be very unhealthy. So the point at which a food becomes unhealthy may differ, but again it's the extraneous factor and not the food itself that is unhealthy.
Brocolli and celery is just 2 examples, no one is going to eat them exclusively. There's a lot of vegetables, grains, meat that can go in your diet and it would be hard to overeat. At some point I can no longer have anymore chicken.. But cookies you can still eat without feeling too full but the total calories you ate will be too high compared to your salad and chicken that made you feel full.
But that's where this is getting confused. No one has ever said to eat nothing but cookies, or broccoli or celery. It's about fitting it in with what else you eat, therefore the food, in a vacuum, is not unhealthy, but the way you fit it into your daily and weekly goals may be.
My point wasn't that someone could be eating only cookies or only broccoli. My point is that one is high in calories even if you eat a small amount and might make you feel hungry later vs one that is low in calories you can eat more and it will make you feel full. If I add a cookie to my food diary I will end up feeling hungry later but those calories will be already used up and I won't be able to eat something else. You can eat a big portion of fruit and it will only be like 60 calories and make you full and healthy, meanwhile your small cookie is 100^ calories. How would you teach this to a child who hasn't developed self control yet .. If a child thinks both foods are healthy? You would have to differentiate between the 2 somehow and explain one is better than the other.
I wouldn't call 60 calories of fruit a "big portion". It's like half a banana.0 -
WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Banana is high in calories. Any other fruit it's hard to reach 100-200 calories with big portions. Apples, Berries, watermelon, melon, etc
So now the definition of healthy is how much volume you can get for your calories? That doesn't make sense.
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Eat them together. Have your meal and follow with your treat, if you want it of course. You don't have to have treats. But a healthy diet certainly can include them...WorkInProgress909 wrote: »My point is that one is high in calories even if you eat a small amount and might make you feel hungry later vs one that is low in calories you can eat more and it will make you feel full.
This is a situation of foods fitting or not fitting your goals. Again, it's not the food, it's your individual needs.WorkInProgress909 wrote: »If I add a cookie to my food diary I will end up feeling hungry later but those calories will be already used up and I won't be able to eat something else.
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WorkInProgress909 wrote: »And half a banana can be very filling. 100g of a banana is like 80 calories. 100g is the size of a regular medium banana
OK, now you're really reaching. half a banana satisfies no one.
I resisted SO MANY dirty euphemisms here!!!0 -
WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Brocolli and celery is just 2 examples, no one is going to eat them exclusively. There's a lot of vegetables, grains, meat that can go in your diet and it would be hard to overeat. At some point I can no longer have anymore chicken.. But cookies you can still eat without feeling too full but the total calories you ate will be too high compared to your salad and chicken that made you feel full.
I think "it is possible to overeat this food" is a poor way to define "unhealthy." (I think in this thread I suggested a couple of different ways.)
I COULD overeat chicken. Roasted chicken probably constituted a not insignificant number of calories in my diet when I was gaining weight. Many of the foods I can overeat (and have overeaten) are foods with lots of nutrients. While non-starchy vegetables are very low in calories (which is one reason they would be unhealthy if eaten to the exclusion of other foods), many "healthy" foods are not--indeed, you seem to be defining "healthy" as "low calorie" and that isn't a good definition at all.
I don't tend to overeat cookies much, so does that make cookies not "unhealthy" for me?
What makes people feel full varies person to person. The LCHF people claim that fat makes them full and it really doesn't for me, not unless combined with other macros like carbs or (especially) protein. Potatoes are quite filling to me, whereas others claim they are not at all.0 -
Not a chance...WorkInProgress909 wrote: »And half a banana can be very filling. 100g of a banana is like 80 calories. 100g is the size of a regular medium banana
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Oatmeal has so much going for it, and regular consumption has been shown to lower cholesterol. Raisins have iron and other wonderful things. When I contemplated the ingredient and nutrition list between an oatmeal cookie and a Quest bar, the cookie comes out pretty good. It has fewer calories than the bar, too.0
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