I called oatmeal cookies unhealthy and I got blasted - why?
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tincanonastring wrote: »So, let's take the following scenario: I have met my carb requirement for the day, but I'm a little under on fat and protein. My micros are in good shape, too, plus I hedge my bets there with a multi-vitamin. I have 200 calories left in my food budget. There are two things left in the house: exactly 200 calories of delicious cookies with just enough protein and fat to hit my targets AND exactly 200 calories of carrots. Which option is healthier for me?
Always cookies.
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esmesqualor wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »MFP has a... thing about this. I have never seen a diet and fitness site like this before. People get criticized for avoiding excess sugar, junk food, highly processed items, etc. I may very occasionally permit myself such an item, but I'm not going to pretend it's *healthy* AKA high in nutrients, because it isn't! Folks will equate the "processing" of placing fruit or vegetables in a bag with the processing of mashing things to a pulp, adding a ton of preservatives, artificial flavors and salt, and frying it. To avoid criticism, the only thing to do is to eat healthy for your own sake but never mention it anywhere but on your own home page. *smh*
You're right. It's mind-boggling.
I agree, it's idiotic. Foods may not necessarily be Unhealthy (like oatmeal cookies in moderation) but they are certainly not healthy! Many people when attempting to lose weight (and other times) would like to make all of the calories that go in to their bodies actually nutritious. I think this is a great goal! Why put "empty" calories in to one's body when it can be avoided. Not to say that there should't be room for some treats now and then, just don't fool yourself in to thinking you are doing something good for yourself!
Don't forget pleasure. A healthy diet is also enjoyable. An enjoyable diet is one you will adhere to. Adherence is the #1 determiner of success or failure.
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tincanonastring wrote: »So, let's take the following scenario: I have met my carb requirement for the day, but I'm a little under on fat and protein. My micros are in good shape, too, plus I hedge my bets there with a multi-vitamin. I have 200 calories left in my food budget. There are two things left in the house: exactly 200 calories of delicious cookies with just enough protein and fat to hit my targets AND exactly 200 calories of carrots. Which option is healthier for me?
OBVIOUSLY the cookies. Macros and mouth happiness!0 -
esmesqualor wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »MFP has a... thing about this. I have never seen a diet and fitness site like this before. People get criticized for avoiding excess sugar, junk food, highly processed items, etc. I may very occasionally permit myself such an item, but I'm not going to pretend it's *healthy* AKA high in nutrients, because it isn't! Folks will equate the "processing" of placing fruit or vegetables in a bag with the processing of mashing things to a pulp, adding a ton of preservatives, artificial flavors and salt, and frying it. To avoid criticism, the only thing to do is to eat healthy for your own sake but never mention it anywhere but on your own home page. *smh*
You're right. It's mind-boggling.
I agree, it's idiotic. Foods may not necessarily be Unhealthy (like oatmeal cookies in moderation) but they are certainly not healthy! Many people when attempting to lose weight (and other times) would like to make all of the calories that go in to their bodies actually nutritious. I think this is a great goal! Why put "empty" calories in to one's body when it can be avoided. Not to say that there should't be room for some treats now and then, just don't fool yourself in to thinking you are doing something good for yourself!
Don't forget pleasure. A healthy diet is also enjoyable. An enjoyable diet is one you will adhere to. Adherence is the #1 determiner of success or failure.
So much this.0 -
It's not an either/or thing. "Nutrient dense" doesn't exclude enjoyment. If 10% of the food you eat is food you enjoy, you should try preparing the "nutrient dense" in new ways until you find some that you enjoy.esmesqualor wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »MFP has a... thing about this. I have never seen a diet and fitness site like this before. People get criticized for avoiding excess sugar, junk food, highly processed items, etc. I may very occasionally permit myself such an item, but I'm not going to pretend it's *healthy* AKA high in nutrients, because it isn't! Folks will equate the "processing" of placing fruit or vegetables in a bag with the processing of mashing things to a pulp, adding a ton of preservatives, artificial flavors and salt, and frying it. To avoid criticism, the only thing to do is to eat healthy for your own sake but never mention it anywhere but on your own home page. *smh*
You're right. It's mind-boggling.
I agree, it's idiotic. Foods may not necessarily be Unhealthy (like oatmeal cookies in moderation) but they are certainly not healthy! Many people when attempting to lose weight (and other times) would like to make all of the calories that go in to their bodies actually nutritious. I think this is a great goal! Why put "empty" calories in to one's body when it can be avoided. Not to say that there should't be room for some treats now and then, just don't fool yourself in to thinking you are doing something good for yourself!
Because health is a lot more than what you put in your body. And sometimes the enjoyment of eating a cookie or ice cream goes a long way for mental health. Daily Klondikes have kept me in the game for a long time. When i cut them all out, while going paleo, i binged. So let me ask you what is more healthy. .. a diet that is 90% nutrient dense and 10% personal enjoyment or a diet where i binge?
If the choices are "diet and binge on a bunch of treats at once" or "diet with treats added in on a regular basis" and the binging is harder on you, then obviously it makes total sense to prevent yourself from binging.
Binging isn't a problem for everyone, though.0 -
It's not an either/or thing. "Nutrient dense" doesn't exclude enjoyment. If 10% of the food you eat is food you enjoy, you should try preparing the "nutrient dense" in new ways until you find some that you enjoy.esmesqualor wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »MFP has a... thing about this. I have never seen a diet and fitness site like this before. People get criticized for avoiding excess sugar, junk food, highly processed items, etc. I may very occasionally permit myself such an item, but I'm not going to pretend it's *healthy* AKA high in nutrients, because it isn't! Folks will equate the "processing" of placing fruit or vegetables in a bag with the processing of mashing things to a pulp, adding a ton of preservatives, artificial flavors and salt, and frying it. To avoid criticism, the only thing to do is to eat healthy for your own sake but never mention it anywhere but on your own home page. *smh*
You're right. It's mind-boggling.
I agree, it's idiotic. Foods may not necessarily be Unhealthy (like oatmeal cookies in moderation) but they are certainly not healthy! Many people when attempting to lose weight (and other times) would like to make all of the calories that go in to their bodies actually nutritious. I think this is a great goal! Why put "empty" calories in to one's body when it can be avoided. Not to say that there should't be room for some treats now and then, just don't fool yourself in to thinking you are doing something good for yourself!
Because health is a lot more than what you put in your body. And sometimes the enjoyment of eating a cookie or ice cream goes a long way for mental health. Daily Klondikes have kept me in the game for a long time. When i cut them all out, while going paleo, i binged. So let me ask you what is more healthy. .. a diet that is 90% nutrient dense and 10% personal enjoyment or a diet where i binge?
If the choices are "diet and binge on a bunch of treats at once" or "diet with treats added in on a regular basis" and the binging is harder on you, then obviously it makes total sense to prevent yourself from binging.
Binging isn't a problem for everyone, though.
Trust me, 100% of my foods i eat are enjoyable. But 90% of those are nutrient dense. My nightly Klondike is the treat.0 -
It's not an either/or thing. "Nutrient dense" doesn't exclude enjoyment. If 10% of the food you eat is food you enjoy, you should try preparing the "nutrient dense" in new ways until you find some that you enjoy.esmesqualor wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »MFP has a... thing about this. I have never seen a diet and fitness site like this before. People get criticized for avoiding excess sugar, junk food, highly processed items, etc. I may very occasionally permit myself such an item, but I'm not going to pretend it's *healthy* AKA high in nutrients, because it isn't! Folks will equate the "processing" of placing fruit or vegetables in a bag with the processing of mashing things to a pulp, adding a ton of preservatives, artificial flavors and salt, and frying it. To avoid criticism, the only thing to do is to eat healthy for your own sake but never mention it anywhere but on your own home page. *smh*
You're right. It's mind-boggling.
I agree, it's idiotic. Foods may not necessarily be Unhealthy (like oatmeal cookies in moderation) but they are certainly not healthy! Many people when attempting to lose weight (and other times) would like to make all of the calories that go in to their bodies actually nutritious. I think this is a great goal! Why put "empty" calories in to one's body when it can be avoided. Not to say that there should't be room for some treats now and then, just don't fool yourself in to thinking you are doing something good for yourself!
Because health is a lot more than what you put in your body. And sometimes the enjoyment of eating a cookie or ice cream goes a long way for mental health. Daily Klondikes have kept me in the game for a long time. When i cut them all out, while going paleo, i binged. So let me ask you what is more healthy. .. a diet that is 90% nutrient dense and 10% personal enjoyment or a diet where i binge?
If the choices are "diet and binge on a bunch of treats at once" or "diet with treats added in on a regular basis" and the binging is harder on you, then obviously it makes total sense to prevent yourself from binging.
Binging isn't a problem for everyone, though.
I think psulemon's post was about himself. He was answering this question:
"Why put "empty" calories in to one's body when it can be avoided. Not to say that there should't be room for some treats now and then, just don't fool yourself in to thinking you are doing something good for yourself!"
Also, I'm reasonably sure that when people say 90% for health, 10% for personal enjoyment they don't mean the 90% isn't also enjoyable, but simply that for a portion of their diet they don't worry too much about it adding lots of micronutrients.
At least, if I ever say something like that, that's what I mean. I tend to think that most people who participate in these discussions like food enough that they care about enjoying their entire diet. I certainly do -- if anything I'm a lot pickier about not eating foods I don't really enjoy than ever before.
That includes lots of vegetables, fruit, a large variety of sources of protein and healthy fats, and many other foods including sometimes a fruit-based crumble (to bring us back to the oats!).0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
It's not an either/or thing. "Nutrient dense" doesn't exclude enjoyment. If 10% of the food you eat is food you enjoy, you should try preparing the "nutrient dense" in new ways until you find some that you enjoy.esmesqualor wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »MFP has a... thing about this. I have never seen a diet and fitness site like this before. People get criticized for avoiding excess sugar, junk food, highly processed items, etc. I may very occasionally permit myself such an item, but I'm not going to pretend it's *healthy* AKA high in nutrients, because it isn't! Folks will equate the "processing" of placing fruit or vegetables in a bag with the processing of mashing things to a pulp, adding a ton of preservatives, artificial flavors and salt, and frying it. To avoid criticism, the only thing to do is to eat healthy for your own sake but never mention it anywhere but on your own home page. *smh*
You're right. It's mind-boggling.
I agree, it's idiotic. Foods may not necessarily be Unhealthy (like oatmeal cookies in moderation) but they are certainly not healthy! Many people when attempting to lose weight (and other times) would like to make all of the calories that go in to their bodies actually nutritious. I think this is a great goal! Why put "empty" calories in to one's body when it can be avoided. Not to say that there should't be room for some treats now and then, just don't fool yourself in to thinking you are doing something good for yourself!
Because health is a lot more than what you put in your body. And sometimes the enjoyment of eating a cookie or ice cream goes a long way for mental health. Daily Klondikes have kept me in the game for a long time. When i cut them all out, while going paleo, i binged. So let me ask you what is more healthy. .. a diet that is 90% nutrient dense and 10% personal enjoyment or a diet where i binge?
If the choices are "diet and binge on a bunch of treats at once" or "diet with treats added in on a regular basis" and the binging is harder on you, then obviously it makes total sense to prevent yourself from binging.
Binging isn't a problem for everyone, though.
I think psulemon's post was about himself. He was answering this question:
"Why put "empty" calories in to one's body when it can be avoided. Not to say that there should't be room for some treats now and then, just don't fool yourself in to thinking you are doing something good for yourself!"
Also, I'm reasonably sure that when people say 90% for health, 10% for personal enjoyment they don't mean the 90% isn't also enjoyable, but simply that for a portion of their diet they don't worry too much about it adding lots of micronutrients.
At least, if I ever say something like that, that's what I mean. I tend to think that most people who participate in these discussions like food enough that they care about enjoying their entire diet. I certainly do -- if anything I'm a lot pickier about not eating foods I don't really enjoy than ever before.
That includes lots of vegetables, fruit, a large variety of sources of protein and healthy fats, and many other foods including sometimes a fruit-based crumble (to bring us back to the oats!).
Very much this. I've got a lot of food intolerances, including both Celiac and being lactose intolerant. You can bet that with the limitations I have, I make sure that when I eat, I'm going to make sure I'm enjoying what I'm eating. I do eat treats every day as well. 100% of what I eat is food that I enjoy. Yes, a small percentage of that is treat food, but all of it is good food.0 -
Dear OP, if the problem is portion control which I'm sure most people have or they wouldn't need a site such as this one right, I would suggest mindful or intuitive eating and meditation which has helped me also. Good luck.
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WINNER.esmesqualor wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »MFP has a... thing about this. I have never seen a diet and fitness site like this before. People get criticized for avoiding excess sugar, junk food, highly processed items, etc. I may very occasionally permit myself such an item, but I'm not going to pretend it's *healthy* AKA high in nutrients, because it isn't! Folks will equate the "processing" of placing fruit or vegetables in a bag with the processing of mashing things to a pulp, adding a ton of preservatives, artificial flavors and salt, and frying it. To avoid criticism, the only thing to do is to eat healthy for your own sake but never mention it anywhere but on your own home page. *smh*
You're right. It's mind-boggling.
I agree, it's idiotic. Foods may not necessarily be Unhealthy (like oatmeal cookies in moderation) but they are certainly not healthy! Many people when attempting to lose weight (and other times) would like to make all of the calories that go in to their bodies actually nutritious. I think this is a great goal! Why put "empty" calories in to one's body when it can be avoided. Not to say that there should't be room for some treats now and then, just don't fool yourself in to thinking you are doing something good for yourself!
Don't forget pleasure. A healthy diet is also enjoyable. An enjoyable diet is one you will adhere to. Adherence is the #1 determiner of success or failure.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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It's not an either/or thing. "Nutrient dense" doesn't exclude enjoyment. If 10% of the food you eat is food you enjoy, you should try preparing the "nutrient dense" in new ways until you find some that you enjoy.esmesqualor wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »MFP has a... thing about this. I have never seen a diet and fitness site like this before. People get criticized for avoiding excess sugar, junk food, highly processed items, etc. I may very occasionally permit myself such an item, but I'm not going to pretend it's *healthy* AKA high in nutrients, because it isn't! Folks will equate the "processing" of placing fruit or vegetables in a bag with the processing of mashing things to a pulp, adding a ton of preservatives, artificial flavors and salt, and frying it. To avoid criticism, the only thing to do is to eat healthy for your own sake but never mention it anywhere but on your own home page. *smh*
You're right. It's mind-boggling.
I agree, it's idiotic. Foods may not necessarily be Unhealthy (like oatmeal cookies in moderation) but they are certainly not healthy! Many people when attempting to lose weight (and other times) would like to make all of the calories that go in to their bodies actually nutritious. I think this is a great goal! Why put "empty" calories in to one's body when it can be avoided. Not to say that there should't be room for some treats now and then, just don't fool yourself in to thinking you are doing something good for yourself!
Because health is a lot more than what you put in your body. And sometimes the enjoyment of eating a cookie or ice cream goes a long way for mental health. Daily Klondikes have kept me in the game for a long time. When i cut them all out, while going paleo, i binged. So let me ask you what is more healthy. .. a diet that is 90% nutrient dense and 10% personal enjoyment or a diet where i binge?
If the choices are "diet and binge on a bunch of treats at once" or "diet with treats added in on a regular basis" and the binging is harder on you, then obviously it makes total sense to prevent yourself from binging.
Binging isn't a problem for everyone, though.
Trust me, 100% of my foods i eat are enjoyable. But 90% of those are nutrient dense. My nightly Klondike is the treat.
That's great to hear. So often, people mistake "healthy" for "not good."
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Eating hepatitis from the jar is unhealthy.
Non of the items mentioned (barring medical conditions or allergies) are detrimental to health.
Of course too much of the items mentioned is detrimental to health, just as too much of *anything* is.0 -
esmesqualor wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »MFP has a... thing about this. I have never seen a diet and fitness site like this before. People get criticized for avoiding excess sugar, junk food, highly processed items, etc. I may very occasionally permit myself such an item, but I'm not going to pretend it's *healthy* AKA high in nutrients, because it isn't! Folks will equate the "processing" of placing fruit or vegetables in a bag with the processing of mashing things to a pulp, adding a ton of preservatives, artificial flavors and salt, and frying it. To avoid criticism, the only thing to do is to eat healthy for your own sake but never mention it anywhere but on your own home page. *smh*
You're right. It's mind-boggling.
I agree, it's idiotic. Foods may not necessarily be Unhealthy (like oatmeal cookies in moderation) but they are certainly not healthy! Many people when attempting to lose weight (and other times) would like to make all of the calories that go in to their bodies actually nutritious. I think this is a great goal! Why put "empty" calories in to one's body when it can be avoided. Not to say that there should't be room for some treats now and then, just don't fool yourself in to thinking you are doing something good for yourself!
I would say a few people want ALL the calories that go into their body to be super nutritious.
Most people want their overall intake to be fairly nutritious but ALSO. to include foods eaten mainly for enjoyment
Why put empty calories into your body if it can be avoided?
Well, speaking for myself, because I enjoy them.
I don't think anyone is saying eating cookies is good for you - but neither is it bad for you, in moderation, as part of an overall balanced diet.0 -
Think of the 'healthiest' food you know of..
Got it?
Good, now eat that food in excessive amounts at the detriment to your calorie and macro intake and it becomes 'unhealthy' for you.
As so many have said and to reiterate, there is no such thing as unhealthy food* only an unhealthy diet.
*assuming it isn't unfit for consumption.0 -
WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Eating hepatitis from the jar is unhealthy.
Non of the items mentioned (barring medical conditions or allergies) are detrimental to health.
Of course too much of the items mentioned is detrimental to health, just as too much of *anything* is.
Too much of celery and Broccoli would not be detrimental for anyone. A diet of regularly eating cookies would cause a difference in your health or weight. So there is a difference between these 2 food groups, they are not the same and it should be OK to acknowledge that.
Actually, if you ate them to exclusion of all other foods, it would be very unhealthy. So the point at which a food becomes unhealthy may differ, but again it's the extraneous factor and not the food itself that is unhealthy.0 -
WorkInProgress909 wrote: »Eating hepatitis from the jar is unhealthy.
Non of the items mentioned (barring medical conditions or allergies) are detrimental to health.
Of course too much of the items mentioned is detrimental to health, just as too much of *anything* is.
Too much of celery and Broccoli would not be detrimental for anyone. A diet of regularly eating cookies would cause a difference in your health or weight. So there is a difference between these 2 food groups, they are not the same and it should be OK to acknowledge that.
Actually, the cookies come much closer to meeting several macros than the veggies do. So, if you were 'regularly' eating just the cookies, but not going over a calorie goal, you'd be better off than if you were eating just the veggies.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »So, let's take the following scenario: I have met my carb requirement for the day, but I'm a little under on fat and protein. My micros are in good shape, too, plus I hedge my bets there with a multi-vitamin. I have 200 calories left in my food budget. There are two things left in the house: exactly 200 calories of delicious cookies with just enough protein and fat to hit my targets AND exactly 200 calories of carrots. Which option is healthier for me?
Oh dear. In my life, I would have to forego both because my carb macro is a maximum, not a minimum, and carrots are one of the "carby-er" veggies. Both cookies and carrots would be unhealthy for me and I would have to turn to 200 calories of fatty protein instead. (Not a special snowflake, just diabetic)
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