I called oatmeal cookies unhealthy and I got blasted - why?
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Where do we draw that line? The answer to that question is a personal one as everyone is different so if they wanted to, because of health reasons or whatever, it is up to them where they need to draw this line that you speak of.
For me personally I need "two categories" so it is easier for me to work out a food plan for myself, that is what I can eat and how much of it.0 -
Where do we draw that line? The answer to that question is a personal one as everyone is different so if they wanted to, because of health reasons or whatever, it is up to them where they need to draw this line that you speak of.
For me personally I need "two categories" so it is easier for me to work out a food plan for myself, that is what I can eat and how much of it.
That's perfectly fine when you're doing it for yourself at home. It's your own thing. Not so much when you're trying to give advice on a forum where people are seeking advice. Calling food 'healthy' and 'unhealthy' based on your own personal view of it doesn't help people who are trying to learn to eat for weight loss.0 -
OK. That makes sense for you, coco_bee.
But for those who don't have health concerns or the mindset to require two categories, is there a need to require the two categories? Because the OP and the post you quoted about that both seemed to say that there are foods that are "unhealthy" for everyone. That's what I'm talking about, and that's what my questions are in reference to.
I will never try to convince someone with a medical condition to eat something contra-indicated by that condition. Nor will most of the people on this thread.0 -
Where do we draw that line? The answer to that question is a personal one as everyone is different so if they wanted to, because of health reasons or whatever, it is up to them where they need to draw this line that you speak of.
For me personally I need "two categories" so it is easier for me to work out a food plan for myself, that is what I can eat and how much of it.
That's perfectly fine when you're doing it for yourself at home. It's your own thing. Not so much when you're trying to give advice on a forum where people are seeking advice. Calling food 'healthy' and 'unhealthy' based on your own personal view of it doesn't help people who are trying to learn to eat for weight loss.
Even more important for people recovering from ED. There's no need to view it in terms of positive or negative...especially not negative.0 -
OK. Honestly, so much fuss about the word "unhealthy" - unbelievable.
Perhaps if OP used different words such as "high calorie" then maybe her message would have been more acceptable to you.
My advice may be different than yours mccindy but that doesnt mean your opinion is right or mine is wrong or visa versa.
BTW advice is something that people can take or leave. It is their choice, not yours.
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OK. Honestly, so much fuss about the word "unhealthy" - unbelievable.
Perhaps if OP used different words such as "high calorie" then maybe her message would have been more acceptable to you.
My advice may be different than yours mccindy but that doesnt mean your opinion is right or mine is wrong or visa versa.
BTW advice is something that people can take or leave. It is their choice, not yours.
High calorie is not necessarily "bad".0 -
OK. Honestly, so much fuss about the word "unhealthy" - unbelievable.
Perhaps if OP used different words such as "high calorie" then maybe her message would have been more acceptable to you.
My advice may be different than yours mccindy but that doesnt mean your opinion is right or mine is wrong or visa versa.
BTW advice is something that people can take or leave. It is their choice, not yours.
I don't have a problem with OP's message - I was discussing the fact that you broke down food into only two categories- 'healthy' and 'unhealthy'. I'm not trying to start any kind of fight with you here; what you call food on your own time, and in your own practice is your own thing. But when you are giving out advice in a forum to people who are just starting out and trying to learn, calling foods that are essentially inert and harmless 'unhealthy' can give people who might be already on the edge of a unsafe mindset the wrong idea. And yes, people can take or leave advice, but you take a certain responsibility when you give it out.0 -
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mccindy - 1st part of my msg was not for you (oopsy sorry, forgot to mention that) It was for mathjulz and anyone else who has had a reaction to the word "unhealthy"being used.
It was actually workinprogress who broke down food into only two categories and I agreed with his/her statement
I wasnt looking for a fight either, please can we just call this a "healthy" debate? lol
I have taken into account what you have said to me and thank you.0 -
mccindy - 1st part of my msg was not for you (oopsy sorry, forgot to mention that) It was for mathjulz and anyone else who has had a reaction to the word "unhealthy"being used.
It was actually workinprogress who broke down food into only two categories and I agreed with his/her statement
I wasnt looking for a fight either, please can we just call this a "healthy" debate? lol
I have taken into account what you have said to me and thank you.
ah, I see. Okay, works for me.0 -
Back to beer, now?
May I respectfully submit:
Not a dessert beer by any means, but delicious and a stout, which seems to be on topic.
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Where do we draw that line? The answer to that question is a personal one as everyone is different so if they wanted to, because of health reasons or whatever, it is up to them where they need to draw this line that you speak of.
For me personally I need "two categories" so it is easier for me to work out a food plan for myself, that is what I can eat and how much of it.
That's perfectly fine when you're doing it for yourself at home. It's your own thing. Not so much when you're trying to give advice on a forum where people are seeking advice. Calling food 'healthy' and 'unhealthy' based on your own personal view of it doesn't help people who are trying to learn to eat for weight loss.
It's not her personal view - her doctor has advised to eat healthier, as does the American Diabetic Association, etc., in fact, everywhere but here on the MFP discussion boards do people understand the concept of healthy foods. While there is no one-size-fits-all definition, the concept being up for debate here is bizarre.mathjulz - Yes I can answer those questions to the best of my ability, with the hope of not being condemned should I use the "wrong words" to explain what I mean. Its not only about calorie counting or weight loss for me. I have to draw the line somewhere as my cholesterol is high and I am prediabetic. I have been warned by my doctor to cut down on fat and sugar intake to prevent getting Type 2 diabetes or (worse scenario) heart attack which I have a strong family history of ie my brother died at a young age from diabetes and he also suffered from heart attacks
I've also been advised to eat "healthier", lose weight and exercise. I love avocado and anything that comes from the ground or a tree I dont believe is unhealthy but I have to try to eat in moderation when it comes to high calorie or high fat/sugary foods. Fruit is OK but I cant have too much of it or it raises the sugar levels in my blood and makes me hungry for more sugar which can lead to overeating and cravings for cake. I love cake but if I eat too much of it will gradually become a health hazard for me. Whipped cream like all high calorie foods I try to have in moderation. Bread is processed, I have to limit my bread as it turns into sugar when it gets into my bloodstream. For a prediabetic, anything that turns into sugar in the body can lead to Type 2. Cookies contain a lot of butter and sugar OMG I love cookies but hopefully you might get the gist of what I am trying to say here by now.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »It's not her personal view - her doctor has advised to eat healthier, as does the American Diabetic Association, etc., in fact, everywhere but here on the MFP discussion boards do people understand the concept of healthy foods.
Deciding, out of context, that some foods are "healthy" and some are "unhealthy" is not an intelligent approach to learning to eat a healthy diet, and I would hope a registered dietitian would not approach it that way. If one did, I would have to conclude he or she was incompetent and not too bright.
This is because whether many foods contribute to health, detract from health, or are neutral depends on the overall diet, and what makes a diet healthy is not simply being composed of "healthy" (by which you likely mean nutrient dense) foods, but that they are present in sensible balances.
Therefore, rather than "bad" and "good" or "healthy" and "unhealthy," it is far more sensible to characterize them, at the least, as "calorie dense" or not and "nutrient dense" or not (some foods may be both calorie dense and nutrient dense, like avocado). Even more helpful would be to characterize them -- as any school child can, but apparently some adults need to make it simpler? -- as fruits, non-starchy vegetables, starches, meats (and eggs and dairy), legumes, fats, etc.
Then realize that your diet should be made up of a good (and ideally varied) balance of vegetables, sources of protein (like meat or legumes -- more complicated if one is vegetarian), and then add in other higher in nutrient foods (like whole grains or other starches like corn and fruit) to fill out the plate. Then, after making up the balance of your diet in this way, if you have some room left (as most non sedentary people should), have a lower nutrient "treat" if that makes you happy. Or don't if you don't want to.
Obviously modify that based on specific health considerations, but don't then become one of those annoying people who tell everyone else that "sugar" is always and everywhere unhealthy because you have diabetes or at one point grossly over-consumed it.
Calling foods "bad" and "good" or "healthy" and "unhealthy" is a problem (as well as just demonstrating that one is not very knowledgeable about nutrition), because lots of foods may be positive contributions to the diet in some circumstances but not in others. For example, meat -- an example I brought up before. Lots of meat will contain sat fat or otherwise be higher in calories and a vegetarian could correctly claim it's not necessary. But for most meat probably has a positive effect, and that would even include red meat due to such things as iron, although I personally try to limit my consumption of red meat somewhat (because I love it and would overconsume it if I did not). Saying it's "unhealthy" and should rarely be eaten is not correct, but neither is it correct to say it's always healthy."
Indeed, even broccoli is not always "healthy" in that if you eat it to the exclusion of certain other things you will have a poor diet.
I'm not much bothered by calling foods like vegetables "healthy" as I think people just mean "high in micronutrients" and there's little risk of most people (including those most likely to be ignorant about nutrition) overconsuming it. But we do see examples of why it's bad and foolish to focus on "healthy" vs. "unhealthy" as opposed to a more intelligent understanding of the topic. One is the people who try to decide what the "healthiest" foods are and to only eat those, when getting a variety is probably better and there's no way to say that kale is better than chicken (or better than spinach, for that matter). Another is the people who think if fruits and veg are good then ONLY fruits and veg must be ideal (or even a detox).
Therefore, I think it better promotes healthy eating to actually be accurate in our discussion and not give in to dumb formulations like "healthy foods" vs. "unhealthy foods" or "bad foods" vs. "good foods."
If people want to say "high in micronutrient"="healthy," fine, whatever, but it's still important to acknowledge that many foods have other benefits (protein vs. micros) or are lower in nutrients but still contribute to goals (eating rice or pasta may help with a workout or make other foods eaten with it more appealing) or are lower in nutrients but still not unhealthy unless overconsumed (like a piece of pie).0 -
Okay, sorry for the rant. I just wanted to start Friday off right, and besides I'm sick and tired of the points about "healthy" and "unhealthy" being portrayed -- disingenuously -- as if they were intended to argue against a healthy overall diet when I think they are quite important to actually constructing a health diet and understanding how to do so properly.
Back to beer!0 -
Sorry to derail the beer discussion, this is not chocolaty but tangy. It's super good.0 -
queenliz99 wrote: »
Sorry to derail the beer discussion, this is not chocolaty but tangy. It's super good.
I will drink this all night and fight you if you try to take the last bottle!0 -
This is my personal favorite. It tastes best at warm temperatures instead of chilled. Super malty flavor.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »
Sorry to derail the beer discussion, this is not chocolaty but tangy. It's super good.
I will drink this all night and fight you if you try to take the last bottle!
Your on!! This brewery is 10 driving minutes from my house and I could walk home if I needed to. LOL0 -
Yes but you are still missing the point. Eating healthier is a product of the diet viewed as a whole, not it's individual pieces. Eating healthier does not mean (barring a medical condition) permanent elimination of certain foods. Many junk, crap, garbage and poison foods (as clean eaters would like to call them) can be included as part of a healthy diet. You really can eat whatever you want, just not as much as you want...kshama2001 wrote: »It's not her personal view - her doctor has advised to eat healthier
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