Keto--what are your thoughts?
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You are right, but you have to consider satisfaction also.
That means that you can get some micro-extras here und there, but you must be able to live without them (if you want be successful with keto).0 -
Then there are other things to consider... But the point is simple: you cannot choose keto if you enjoy eating foods that are not compatible with it.
That's definitely not true. I did keto for 4 months and lost 30lbs, and many of the food items I had to cut back on were foods I enjoy. The only reason I stopped keto was because it wasn't economically viable for me. Willpower is...well...powerful. You can certainly sustain keto while restraining from eating foods that are not compatible with it.
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Wow, this is actually a good and courteous discussion. MFP, you feelin' OK??
I've not done keto, but I wanted to educate myself about it since it provided tremendous help for a friend who was pre-diabetic. It looks like something I'd prefer not to try simply because it's a bit too restrictive (for ME), requires a fair amount of fiddling around with recipes and an extra level of vigilance when going to friends' homes for dinner, etc. I just don't feel I could sustain it long-term.
But for those who try it and immediately get that "omg, I've been LOOKING for this!" experience, it really seems to provide great results. To be honest, I've had a bit of a hard time with the way some of the really dedicated Keto-ers on MFP express themselves, so I haven't looked to the MFP groups. But I found the keto boards on reddit to be extremely educational and friendly, so if anyone is looking for a good alternative source of information about keto, you can try here: https://reddit.com/r/keto
If you're interested in going lower-carb without going full keto, then this reddit board has lots of support, info, and good recipes:
https://reddit.com/r/lowcarb/
It's even Friday!
I also wanted to say that I really enjoy your posts.
To contribute, keto is not something I could do. Even before I started doing the whole vegetarian thing, I was never much of a carnivore. I could appreciate a good steak, but it wasn't my favorite nor enough to base my diet around (As an aside, I guess it might work because I'd be eating a lot less! Ha!). However, I have a friend who is all about meat. Keto is such an obvious choice for him that I doubt he had to give it much thought. He enjoys eating this way immensely and is successful on it.
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In all seriousness, if you are tracking carbs, fats and proteins, you are tracking calories...kplacko0919 wrote: »No, I'm not better off counting calories. I've done that for years and it has done nothing for me I have lost 12 pounds in 2 weeks doing only carb fat and protein counting. It is not about the calories even though that's what's burnt into your brain. What works for one person isn't going to work for the other and calorie counting does not work for me. thanks though
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tincanonastring wrote: »Just so OP hears both sides, I've gained a lot of those benefits without doing a keto diet. I can't speak to the hair, skin and nails issues since I never had those, but the more energy thing was coupled directly with weight loss. And yes, it's a big life changer. I eventually figured out that the hunger issues I was having were not actually hunger. They were stress or boredom and I was using to food to alleviate them.
Ditto on the energy thing. I didn't even realize how unergized I was until I lost weight and couldn't sit still anymore. Looking back, I can't believe that I used to be content to sit in a recliner and watch TV for hours. It's just as unfathomable to me now as running 5 miles would have been for me back then.
OP doesn't look like she's overweight anyway. I certainly wasn't. I ran regularly before keto and continued to run during keto (but faster). The improvement in nutrition is probably the cause of the weight loss and increase in energy levels rather than the weight loss itself causing an increase in energy levels.
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ldrosophila wrote: »mrsroddy1228 wrote: »Thank you all for your responses-- I've decided not to do keto
sounds like a woman who lives in science and reason. Good for you!
So those of us who do decide to follow a keto lifestyle aren't living in science and reason in your opinion? I have to beg to disagree given the number of books and research articles I've read on the subject as well as having my own anecdotal experience of it!
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lemurcat12 wrote: »The point is that in ketosis, there is no such thing as hunger or cravings. That's why in ketosis you don't need to count calories - you are going to eat less.
This is not true for everyone, that they eat less on keto. Some people also manage to maintain or gain on keto -- it's supposed to be a lifestyle, not a diet, after all.
I think keto works great for some people. Not everyone struggles with hunger (at least not physical hunger) or cravings, though, or wants their appetite to go away. And in that I've seen people fail on keto, it doesn't work for everyone.
I love fat and protein (and veggies cooked in fat), so I am pretty sure that after an adjustment period I could overeat on keto as easily as with any other eating style. I also believe that I feel better eating a more balanced diet with a good mix of less processed carbs (and some carb and fat based treats, sure), so that works for me.
I think people who enjoy keto should do what works for them and those who want to try it should. I only ever comment when people insist it works for everyone or that it's a superior approach in general or that it means that calories don't matter.
Off course you can gain on keto... Actually, I'm in bulk phase.
And I've lose the most part of my fat on a standard hypocaloric diet (14kg).
That's why I know how I felt during calories restriction during a high carb diet and during a high fat diet. It is quite simpler to limit food intake if you don't feel hungry.
Then there are other things to consider... But the point is simple: you cannot choose keto if you enjoy eating foods that are not compatible with it.
Any food is compatible with keto in the right quantity.
No not really, because of the strict upper limit on carbs, choosing to eat one thing that's higher in carbs would necessarily come at the detriment of stuff like veggies. Unless you're gonna call "half a slice of pizza and the rest of your day has to be entirely meat and fats so you're not over your carbs" compatible.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »melimomTARDIS wrote: »i love pasta and crackers. I would be really sad if I had to stop eating those.
And chocolate, and bread, and cookies, and ice cream (I assume those are not keto, lol)...
Yeah I don't think Keto would be for me.
@Francl27 I found I could not do Keto without ditching most all carbs (<50 grams daily). It was not until I was facing a real risk of cancer from Enbrel if I did not find a way to manage my pain with my diet that I was able to stop living on carbs. It was hellish for the first two weeks but still being Keto 11 months later. I am glad I left carbs cold turkey knowing what I know now.
Wait, are you sayng Enbrel was going to give you cancer and that's why you switched to dietary pain management?
Yes and more.
lawyersandsettlements.com/lawsuit/enbrel.html#.VeD0jvlVhHw
yourlawyer.com/topics/overview/enbrel
newsinferno.com/enbrel-lawsuit-claims-drug-caused-cancer/
resource4thepeople.com/defectivedrugs/enbrel.html
lawyersandsettlements.com/articles/enbrel/Enbrel-Cancer-Warning-12597.html#.VeD4K_lVhHw
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GaleHawkins wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »melimomTARDIS wrote: »i love pasta and crackers. I would be really sad if I had to stop eating those.
And chocolate, and bread, and cookies, and ice cream (I assume those are not keto, lol)...
Yeah I don't think Keto would be for me.
@Francl27 I found I could not do Keto without ditching most all carbs (<50 grams daily). It was not until I was facing a real risk of cancer from Enbrel if I did not find a way to manage my pain with my diet that I was able to stop living on carbs. It was hellish for the first two weeks but still being Keto 11 months later. I am glad I left carbs cold turkey knowing what I know now.
Wait, are you sayng Enbrel was going to give you cancer and that's why you switched to dietary pain management?
Yes and more.
lawyersandsettlements.com/lawsuit/enbrel.html#.VeD0jvlVhHw
yourlawyer.com/topics/overview/enbrel
newsinferno.com/enbrel-lawsuit-claims-drug-caused-cancer/
resource4thepeople.com/defectivedrugs/enbrel.html
lawyersandsettlements.com/articles/enbrel/Enbrel-Cancer-Warning-12597.html#.VeD4K_lVhHw
With the exception of the guy alleging lymphoma, the cancer risk in those links appears to be limited to children and adolescents. Is there anything from sources other than those advocating for litigation?
Never mind. I looked it up for myself. It's on the Enbrel site if you want to start referencing that instead.0 -
OneHundredToLose wrote: »Then there are other things to consider... But the point is simple: you cannot choose keto if you enjoy eating foods that are not compatible with it.
That's definitely not true. I did keto for 4 months and lost 30lbs, and many of the food items I had to cut back on were foods I enjoy. The only reason I stopped keto was because it wasn't economically viable for me. Willpower is...well...powerful. You can certainly sustain keto while restraining from eating foods that are not compatible with it.
Again, you are right. Is better to say: "you cannot choose keto if you are not prepared to cut off certain type of food".
(Also I like pizza, but the advantages of being in ketosis are for me greater than the satisfaction I get from food).0 -
OneHundredToLose wrote: »Then there are other things to consider... But the point is simple: you cannot choose keto if you enjoy eating foods that are not compatible with it.
That's definitely not true. I did keto for 4 months and lost 30lbs, and many of the food items I had to cut back on were foods I enjoy. The only reason I stopped keto was because it wasn't economically viable for me. Willpower is...well...powerful. You can certainly sustain keto while restraining from eating foods that are not compatible with it.
Again, you are right. Is better to say: "you cannot choose keto if you are not prepared to cut off certain type of food".
(Also I like pizza, but the advantages of being in ketosis are for me greater than the satisfaction I get from food).
I'd absolutely agree with that. I had a few friends who tried keto and thought it was like any other diet where you can have slip days...the problem is that if you slip out of ketosis, it's a long hill back, not quite as easy as just starting over the next day and being right as rain.0 -
@tincanonastring as you will read cancer is not the top side effects of drugs that knocks down one's immunity system. The point is why would any informed person take drugs with real and proven health risks by the maker of the drug when just stopping eating food containing sugar and/or grain will address the pain without any Rx Meds of any type?
If carbs were required for human health as are proteins and fats then that would be a different story.
Holding an OD degree and the wife being a pharmacist we tend to lean away from using toxic chemicals when possible as it was in this case.0 -
OneHundredToLose wrote: »OneHundredToLose wrote: »Then there are other things to consider... But the point is simple: you cannot choose keto if you enjoy eating foods that are not compatible with it.
That's definitely not true. I did keto for 4 months and lost 30lbs, and many of the food items I had to cut back on were foods I enjoy. The only reason I stopped keto was because it wasn't economically viable for me. Willpower is...well...powerful. You can certainly sustain keto while restraining from eating foods that are not compatible with it.
Again, you are right. Is better to say: "you cannot choose keto if you are not prepared to cut off certain type of food".
(Also I like pizza, but the advantages of being in ketosis are for me greater than the satisfaction I get from food).
I'd absolutely agree with that. I had a few friends who tried keto and thought it was like any other diet where you can have slip days...the problem is that if you slip out of ketosis, it's a long hill back, not quite as easy as just starting over the next day and being right as rain.
That sounds laborious.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »@tincanonastring as you will read cancer is not the top side effects of drugs that knocks down one's immunity system. The point is why would any informed person take drugs with real and proven health risks by the maker of the drug when just stopping eating food containing sugar and/or grain will address the pain without any Rx Meds of any type?
If carbs were required for human health as are proteins and fats then that would be a different story.
Holding an OD degree and the wife being a pharmacist we tend to lean away from using toxic chemicals when possible as it was in this case.
Well, sometimes making that type of dietary adjustment doesn't actually address the pain. In that case, a patient could weigh the risks of that or other prescription treatments against the pain to make their own decision. I'm glad yours worked for you.
I'm not convinced that carbs aren't required for human health. If anything, lack of them appears to make for a godawful cup of coffee.0 -
OneHundredToLose wrote: »OneHundredToLose wrote: »Then there are other things to consider... But the point is simple: you cannot choose keto if you enjoy eating foods that are not compatible with it.
That's definitely not true. I did keto for 4 months and lost 30lbs, and many of the food items I had to cut back on were foods I enjoy. The only reason I stopped keto was because it wasn't economically viable for me. Willpower is...well...powerful. You can certainly sustain keto while restraining from eating foods that are not compatible with it.
Again, you are right. Is better to say: "you cannot choose keto if you are not prepared to cut off certain type of food".
(Also I like pizza, but the advantages of being in ketosis are for me greater than the satisfaction I get from food).
I'd absolutely agree with that. I had a few friends who tried keto and thought it was like any other diet where you can have slip days...the problem is that if you slip out of ketosis, it's a long hill back, not quite as easy as just starting over the next day and being right as rain.
It's actually not much of a deal at all, really.
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OneHundredToLose wrote: »OneHundredToLose wrote: »Then there are other things to consider... But the point is simple: you cannot choose keto if you enjoy eating foods that are not compatible with it.
That's definitely not true. I did keto for 4 months and lost 30lbs, and many of the food items I had to cut back on were foods I enjoy. The only reason I stopped keto was because it wasn't economically viable for me. Willpower is...well...powerful. You can certainly sustain keto while restraining from eating foods that are not compatible with it.
Again, you are right. Is better to say: "you cannot choose keto if you are not prepared to cut off certain type of food".
(Also I like pizza, but the advantages of being in ketosis are for me greater than the satisfaction I get from food).
I'd absolutely agree with that. I had a few friends who tried keto and thought it was like any other diet where you can have slip days...the problem is that if you slip out of ketosis, it's a long hill back, not quite as easy as just starting over the next day and being right as rain.
It's actually not much of a deal at all, really.
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@kplacko0919, how wonderful you found a dietary plan that works for you! However, the only magic in keto, or any other diet type, is the magic that we give it.
The only way to lose weight is to eat less calories than your burn. It's science, and none of us get to be special snowflakes.
So, if you are counting those macros, you are essentially counting calories. To me, it just sounds like your dietary plan allows you to stay full longer so that you're not so hungry and reaching for the food, therefore creating your deficit to lose weight.
I've also heard that eating keto helps people not crave carb foods, which amounts to less water retention (carbs love to leave us water). 0 -
The point is that in ketosis, there is no such thing as hunger or cravings. That's why in ketosis you don't need to count calories - you are going to eat less.
Okay....but not everyone will eat less just because they are on keto.
But if you do automatically eat less, it just means you are in the required calorie deficit to lose weight, which is 100% necessary fro weight loss.0 -
I know the OP decided against keto, but I'll add my experience anyways.
I've been in ketosis for about 2 months and it seems to be the way my body does best. For me it is that perfect fit, although that's not to say I'll do it forever - I may switch to lowcarb one day in the far future.
I switched to keto reverse prediabetes, reduce inflammation and arthritic pain, control sweet cravings and to help me lose weight and it has done all of that for me and more. If I eat very low carbs my blood glucose stays perfect and I don't deal with mild reactive hypoglycemia anymore. My joint pain and inflammation is better. I don't crave sweets at all anymore, which seems like a miracle, and I have lost 20 lbs in 2 months, which is pretty good since I wasn't that overweight to begin with - I am still losing at the same rate even though my BMI is now normal (at about 1600 calories per day).
Ketosis is one of those ways of eating that can have a lot of health benefits and can be very enjoyable.0 -
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tincanonastring wrote: »
I'm not convinced that carbs aren't required for human health.
The Institute of Medicine doesn't know either "“The lower limit of dietary carbohydrate compatible with life apparently is zero, provided that adequate amounts of protein and fat are consumed. However, the amount of dietary carbohydrate that provides for optimal health in humans is unknown." http://iom.nationalacademies.org/Reports/2006/Dietary-Reference-Intakes-Essential-Guide-Nutrient-Requirements.aspx
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Yes... There is no such thing as "essential carbohydrates", because the body itself can produce the necessary glucose (mainly from proteins, that's why eating too much proteins can stop ketosis).0
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I haven't done Keto myself, but when my daughter was 6 y.o, she had epilepsy and we put her in a study for the Modified Atkins Diet that would induce Ketosis. At the time, she was taking 11 pills for her illness. It was incredibly difficult to change my mindset that (most) fruits = bad and cream and butter and fat = good, but it somehow worked for her! She was in ketosis for 2.5 years, never saw another seizure after week 7, weaned off all medication, weaned off ketosis and Atkins. This was 4 years ago and she is still seizure free. As an aside, because this was under dr supervision, her blood work was done regularily. Her cholesterol actually went down from baseline after the 2 month mark, and although she wasn't overweight, she became a bit leaner.0
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stevencloser wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »The point is that in ketosis, there is no such thing as hunger or cravings. That's why in ketosis you don't need to count calories - you are going to eat less.
This is not true for everyone, that they eat less on keto. Some people also manage to maintain or gain on keto -- it's supposed to be a lifestyle, not a diet, after all.
I think keto works great for some people. Not everyone struggles with hunger (at least not physical hunger) or cravings, though, or wants their appetite to go away. And in that I've seen people fail on keto, it doesn't work for everyone.
I love fat and protein (and veggies cooked in fat), so I am pretty sure that after an adjustment period I could overeat on keto as easily as with any other eating style. I also believe that I feel better eating a more balanced diet with a good mix of less processed carbs (and some carb and fat based treats, sure), so that works for me.
I think people who enjoy keto should do what works for them and those who want to try it should. I only ever comment when people insist it works for everyone or that it's a superior approach in general or that it means that calories don't matter.
Off course you can gain on keto... Actually, I'm in bulk phase.
And I've lose the most part of my fat on a standard hypocaloric diet (14kg).
That's why I know how I felt during calories restriction during a high carb diet and during a high fat diet. It is quite simpler to limit food intake if you don't feel hungry.
Then there are other things to consider... But the point is simple: you cannot choose keto if you enjoy eating foods that are not compatible with it.
Any food is compatible with keto in the right quantity.
No not really, because of the strict upper limit on carbs, choosing to eat one thing that's higher in carbs would necessarily come at the detriment of stuff like veggies. Unless you're gonna call "half a slice of pizza and the rest of your day has to be entirely meat and fats so you're not over your carbs" compatible.
Most people can stay in ketosis somewhere in the range of under 50-100 grams depending on activity levels. Sedentary under 50 and higher for more active. The amount of a carb based 'treat' food needed for a fix is pretty small when you are not regularly eating starch and sugar in quantity. In the past I ate huge portions, so this is a noticeable change in my habits.
It is kind of alien to me how you are elevating vegetables nutritionally over fats and proteins. Fats an proteins are the essential macronutrients and contain all the micronutrients required. You can build a nutritional diet with minimal carbohydrates.
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If you love them so much, it would be for you....0
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stevencloser wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »The point is that in ketosis, there is no such thing as hunger or cravings. That's why in ketosis you don't need to count calories - you are going to eat less.
This is not true for everyone, that they eat less on keto. Some people also manage to maintain or gain on keto -- it's supposed to be a lifestyle, not a diet, after all.
I think keto works great for some people. Not everyone struggles with hunger (at least not physical hunger) or cravings, though, or wants their appetite to go away. And in that I've seen people fail on keto, it doesn't work for everyone.
I love fat and protein (and veggies cooked in fat), so I am pretty sure that after an adjustment period I could overeat on keto as easily as with any other eating style. I also believe that I feel better eating a more balanced diet with a good mix of less processed carbs (and some carb and fat based treats, sure), so that works for me.
I think people who enjoy keto should do what works for them and those who want to try it should. I only ever comment when people insist it works for everyone or that it's a superior approach in general or that it means that calories don't matter.
Off course you can gain on keto... Actually, I'm in bulk phase.
And I've lose the most part of my fat on a standard hypocaloric diet (14kg).
That's why I know how I felt during calories restriction during a high carb diet and during a high fat diet. It is quite simpler to limit food intake if you don't feel hungry.
Then there are other things to consider... But the point is simple: you cannot choose keto if you enjoy eating foods that are not compatible with it.
Any food is compatible with keto in the right quantity.
No not really, because of the strict upper limit on carbs, choosing to eat one thing that's higher in carbs would necessarily come at the detriment of stuff like veggies. Unless you're gonna call "half a slice of pizza and the rest of your day has to be entirely meat and fats so you're not over your carbs" compatible.
Most people can stay in ketosis somewhere in the range of under 50-100 grams depending on activity levels. Sedentary under 50 and higher for more active. The amount of a carb based 'treat' food needed for a fix is pretty small when you are not regularly eating starch and sugar in quantity. In the past I ate huge portions, so this is a noticeable change in my habits.
It is kind of alien to me how you are elevating vegetables nutritionally over fats and proteins. Fats an proteins are the essential macronutrients and contain all the micronutrients required. You can build a nutritional diet with minimal carbohydrates.
I understand that way of thinking even though I follow a keto diet. I thought that way for decades, and strove to make veggies the bulk of my meals with plenty of "healthy grains" thrown in, along with extra fibre. We've been so indoctrinated with this info for the past few decades, that it is a hard mindset to let go of. I would probably still think that way if I wasn't constantly reading a wide variety of nutrition, diet or health books in an effort to improve my health.
I get a lot of weird looks from people when they find out that I eat low carb, and tend to not eat fruits or make the majority of my plates veggies. Then come the questions about fibre and nutrients with more disbelieving looks. Now that I've (easily) lost 20lbs, and a couple of sizes, over the summer to get back to a normal BMI, plus improved my health, I am getting a few people who are actually looking into a LCHF or keto diet. People don't generally question what they have been told unless given a reason to. JMO
Keto is an extreme diet only in the sense that not many people do it - it is rare. Sort of how people viewed vegetarians 40 years ago. Scientific theories on nutrition and health are looking into, and supporting LCHF now, so my guess is that attitudes will start changing in the next 15 years.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »OneHundredToLose wrote: »OneHundredToLose wrote: »Then there are other things to consider... But the point is simple: you cannot choose keto if you enjoy eating foods that are not compatible with it.
That's definitely not true. I did keto for 4 months and lost 30lbs, and many of the food items I had to cut back on were foods I enjoy. The only reason I stopped keto was because it wasn't economically viable for me. Willpower is...well...powerful. You can certainly sustain keto while restraining from eating foods that are not compatible with it.
Again, you are right. Is better to say: "you cannot choose keto if you are not prepared to cut off certain type of food".
(Also I like pizza, but the advantages of being in ketosis are for me greater than the satisfaction I get from food).
I'd absolutely agree with that. I had a few friends who tried keto and thought it was like any other diet where you can have slip days...the problem is that if you slip out of ketosis, it's a long hill back, not quite as easy as just starting over the next day and being right as rain.
That sounds laborious.
No not really. Just eat below 20 grams of carbohydrate/day and Bob's your uncle. Couldn't be simpler.
As to enjoyment. Boy did I enjoy bread! I even own a Community Shared Bakery. And boy did the bread make me sick. Keto has been a lifesaver for me, I went from metabolic syndrome, pre-diabetes and insulin resistance to healthy blood work, a great deal more energy and an end to my carbohydrate cravings.
So, after all this, it is really easy to cut back on the carbs. They make me sick, I don't eat them. Nothing laborious about that.
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In fact veggies are very low in NET carbs... I ate more veggies now in keto as before.
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