Do you believe sugar cravings can be similar to drug addictions?
Replies
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TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »I guess opinions and horrible analogies trump scientific studies once again.
Numerous scientific studies have proven that humans don't become physically addicted to sugar. There was an amazing thread with multiple links posted on MFP about it just a month and a half ago or so.
Having been addicted to opioids at one point in my life and having experience the withdrawal and pain of weaning off of that over a period of a year, and still experiencing symptoms after that, I can safely say that sugar doesn't do any of that to people.
A person might experience some strong cravings for it, but it's absolutely untrue to say a person will be physically addicted to sugar.
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Lol NO.0
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TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »I guess opinions and horrible analogies trump scientific studies once again.
Numerous scientific studies have proven that humans don't become physically addicted to sugar. There was an amazing thread with multiple links posted on MFP about it just a month and a half ago or so.
Having been addicted to opioids at one point in my life and having experience the withdrawal and pain of weaning off of that over a period of a year, and still experiencing symptoms after that, I can safely say that sugar doesn't do any of that to people.
A person might experience some strong cravings for it, but it's absolutely untrue to say a person will be physically addicted to sugar.
Yup= the feelings you get for food are nowhere close to the feelings for opiods.
I don't know anyone who needs a sponsor they can call at 2 in the morning because they are thinking of doing a run to dunkin donuts.0 -
I think we all may have missed the question a bit though. OP asked if you think cravings can me SIMILAR to drug addictions. Not whether sugar is addictive or not.
I *think* most of us can at least agree that it's similar. Not the same, but similar.0 -
I think we all may have missed the question a bit though. OP asked if you think cravings can me SIMILAR to drug addictions. Not whether sugar is addictive or not.
I *think* most of us can at least agree that it's similar. Not the same, but similar.
nope. don't agree. lol not even similar. yes, it can induce positive feelings that you crave for... but those feelings are not similar to the feelings you get for drugs addictions.0 -
brb smoking some rock to see if its the same as craving sugar. I'll let you know how my study goes.0
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TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »I guess opinions and horrible analogies trump scientific studies once again.
There are scientific studies that support both sides of the argument that have been posted all over the boards. I asked a legitimate question, out of genuine curiosity.
How is my analogy horrible? They're very different substances and equating them in order to make an argument is unfair. I'm not saying there is no argument for sugar addiction- I'm saying that's not a great one.
They actually do have in-house treatment centers for sugar addiction and support groups.
Also, since you might of missed it, I'll post it again:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1931610/
"Our findings clearly demonstrate that intense sweetness can surpass cocaine reward, even in drug-sensitized and -addicted individuals. We speculate that the addictive potential of intense sweetness results from an inborn hypersensitivity to sweet tastants. In most mammals, including rats and humans, sweet receptors evolved in ancestral environments poor in sugars and are thus not adapted to high concentrations of sweet tastants. The supranormal stimulation of these receptors by sugar-rich diets, such as those now widely available in modern societies, would generate a supranormal reward signal in the brain, with the potential to override self-control mechanisms and thus to lead to addiction."
Does this one study make it 100% fact? No. But according to the scientific findings, "intense sweetness can surpass cocaine reward ..... with the potential to override self-control mechanisms and thus lead to addiction".TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »I guess opinions and horrible analogies trump scientific studies once again.
Numerous scientific studies have proven that humans don't become physically addicted to sugar. There was an amazing thread with multiple links posted on MFP about it just a month and a half ago or so.
Having been addicted to opioids at one point in my life and having experience the withdrawal and pain of weaning off of that over a period of a year, and still experiencing symptoms after that, I can safely say that sugar doesn't do any of that to people.
A person might experience some strong cravings for it, but it's absolutely untrue to say a person will be physically addicted to sugar.
Just because you have never been physically addicted to sugar doesn't mean it can't happen. People can use one thing in moderation yet fall victim to another. For you, opioids was your addiction yet people can use opioids in moderation. There are people who can use heroine and cocaine recreationally. Not everyone who uses hard drugs will become an addict. So when it comes down to sugar, yes, the cravings and addiction can be like illicit drugs.
Even if there are numerous scientific studies that prove one thing, showing one study that goes against it makes it open for debate and not 100% true or false.
This is that one (in case you missed it up above):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1931610/
"Our findings clearly demonstrate that intense sweetness can surpass cocaine reward, even in drug-sensitized and -addicted individuals. We speculate that the addictive potential of intense sweetness results from an inborn hypersensitivity to sweet tastants. In most mammals, including rats and humans, sweet receptors evolved in ancestral environments poor in sugars and are thus not adapted to high concentrations of sweet tastants. The supranormal stimulation of these receptors by sugar-rich diets, such as those now widely available in modern societies, would generate a supranormal reward signal in the brain, with the potential to override self-control mechanisms and thus to lead to addiction."0 -
Not even similar? Tough crowd. I won't try to convince you. But I will say when I cut back I got severe headaches, chills, fever, body aches, and you feel awful. You are weak. And a doctor typically monitors you very closely when you reduce sugar and carbs drastically. In my book that's close enough. But I understand how others don't consider it so.0
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Not even similar? Tough crowd. I won't try to convince you. But I will say when I cut back I got severe headaches, chills, fever, body aches, and you feel awful. You are weak. And a doctor typically monitors you very closely when you reduce sugar and carbs drastically. In my book that's close enough. But I understand how others don't consider it so.
Lol...you cut back on carbs, DUH you will feel weak. It's the first source your body uses for energy..0 -
Not even similar? Tough crowd. I won't try to convince you. But I will say when I cut back I got severe headaches, chills, fever, body aches, and you feel awful. You are weak. And a doctor typically monitors you very closely when you reduce sugar and carbs drastically. In my book that's close enough. But I understand how others don't consider it so.
@emhunter You might have better luck explaining plausible proof to a brick wall. Sorry
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williamwj2014 wrote: »Not even similar? Tough crowd. I won't try to convince you. But I will say when I cut back I got severe headaches, chills, fever, body aches, and you feel awful. You are weak. And a doctor typically monitors you very closely when you reduce sugar and carbs drastically. In my book that's close enough. But I understand how others don't consider it so.
Lol...you cut back on carbs, DUH you will feel weak. It's the first source your body uses for energy..
Not if you have insulin resistance... But I still named a bunch of other symptoms
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TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »Not even similar? Tough crowd. I won't try to convince you. But I will say when I cut back I got severe headaches, chills, fever, body aches, and you feel awful. You are weak. And a doctor typically monitors you very closely when you reduce sugar and carbs drastically. In my book that's close enough. But I understand how others don't consider it so.
@emhunter You might have better luck explaining plausible proof to a brick wall. Sorry
Lol @TrailBlazzinMN . I just figure we will have to agree to disagree as usual. I think saying it's similar to is a good compromise.
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williamwj2014 wrote: »Not even similar? Tough crowd. I won't try to convince you. But I will say when I cut back I got severe headaches, chills, fever, body aches, and you feel awful. You are weak. And a doctor typically monitors you very closely when you reduce sugar and carbs drastically. In my book that's close enough. But I understand how others don't consider it so.
Lol...you cut back on carbs, DUH you will feel weak. It's the first source your body uses for energy..
This, exactly. And doctors monitor people cutting carbs? That's a new one. Perhaps a dietician, and closely monitor is a bit of an exaggeration.
If you think you got chills and body aches from cutting back on sugar then you have never experienced drug addiction withdrawal and I'd not wish it on you, @emhunter. To even try to compare the two is insulting to anyone who's been addicted to drugs. And to those who say that people use opioids in moderation, yes, I do that now just fine, as a recovered addict.
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williamwj2014 wrote: »Not even similar? Tough crowd. I won't try to convince you. But I will say when I cut back I got severe headaches, chills, fever, body aches, and you feel awful. You are weak. And a doctor typically monitors you very closely when you reduce sugar and carbs drastically. In my book that's close enough. But I understand how others don't consider it so.
Lol...you cut back on carbs, DUH you will feel weak. It's the first source your body uses for energy..
Not if you have insulin resistance... But I still named a bunch of other symptoms
The only thing out of those symptoms I experience if I cut back on carbs is the lack of energy and how weak it makes me feel but the others I only experience when I don't have some caffeine in my system soo..question is, are you cutting back on caffeine on those days too?0 -
williamwj2014 wrote: »brb smoking some rock to see if its the same as craving sugar. I'll let you know how my study goes.
??
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Lasmartchika wrote: »Or sell all your family's belongings to get some quick money for some chocolate.
Yes, at first reading it sounds funny, because most people won't go to that degree to get some chocolate.
It also needs to be pointed out that especially here in MFP when it comes to drug addiction as an example, most of the time only those extreme cases are pointed out. We all know that for every case that is so extreme that a person would sell their belongings, steal from others or do other illegal acts to get to buy drugs there are thousands of those who still manage their lives to various degrees.
I have known people for example working within the Lutheran church who were hard core coke snorters, but on weekends only, while holding down their jobs and handling their families during the week. I knew a lot of people within the academic community who only smoked/took drugs on weekends and holidays and also handled other parts of their lives and did so rather well.
When I was in university in the 60's I smoked hash regularly and also took LSD on weekends, while maintaining an extremely high grade average and I knew many fellow students who did also.
So I can see that other addictions ( if that is what we call it ) like that to sugar, food in general or sex works according to the same addiction mechanics than those of average addicts....probably not the extreme ones. But as I said they are in a smaller % within the addiction community and should not be used for the standard example of an addict.
PS: I quit smoking hash and taking LSD when I graduated from university with relatively little trouble, however trying to quit my 40-cigs-a-day nicotene addiction five years later took more than a dozen serious attempts, professional help and a lot of physical aches and pains, insomnia and other problems until I finally kicked the addiction in 1976 after smoking for almost fifteen years. As someone else said earlier; pretty much everything can turn into an addiction and just because the addiction is not physical, but psychological does not mean that it is less troublesome and difficult to kick. It all depends on the individual and we should not put someone down just because they feel they are addicted to a substance, like sugar, that some of us feel is " un-addictable ".
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williamwj2014 wrote: »williamwj2014 wrote: »Not even similar? Tough crowd. I won't try to convince you. But I will say when I cut back I got severe headaches, chills, fever, body aches, and you feel awful. You are weak. And a doctor typically monitors you very closely when you reduce sugar and carbs drastically. In my book that's close enough. But I understand how others don't consider it so.
Lol...you cut back on carbs, DUH you will feel weak. It's the first source your body uses for energy..
Not if you have insulin resistance... But I still named a bunch of other symptoms
The only thing out of those symptoms I experience if I cut back on carbs is the lack of energy and how weak it makes me feel but the others I only experience when I don't have some caffeine in my system soo..question is, are you cutting back on caffeine on those days too?
@williamwj2014 no I don't drink coffee or soda so I did not cut back on caffeine. Also, just because you didn't have those symptoms doesn't mean others don't.
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williamwj2014 wrote: »williamwj2014 wrote: »Not even similar? Tough crowd. I won't try to convince you. But I will say when I cut back I got severe headaches, chills, fever, body aches, and you feel awful. You are weak. And a doctor typically monitors you very closely when you reduce sugar and carbs drastically. In my book that's close enough. But I understand how others don't consider it so.
Lol...you cut back on carbs, DUH you will feel weak. It's the first source your body uses for energy..
Not if you have insulin resistance... But I still named a bunch of other symptoms
The only thing out of those symptoms I experience if I cut back on carbs is the lack of energy and how weak it makes me feel but the others I only experience when I don't have some caffeine in my system soo..question is, are you cutting back on caffeine on those days too?
@williamwj2014 no I don't drink coffee or soda so I did not cut back on caffeine. Also, just because you didn't have those symptoms doesn't mean others don't.
Lol I'll let you win this round. But there's just no freakin way you can even say they're similar at all. You just can't compare the two..lol Not even a little bit.0 -
@mccindy72 similar to, yes I do think so. That's not saying it's the same. The aches from cutting back on the sugar were intense. It's very uncomfortable and painful to say the least. That was MY experience and it's some other people's experience when they cut back. I had to see the doctor once a week. And the dietician and nutritionist two times a week during this time. I was not in a hospital fighting for my life. But I was aware of all the trouble sugar was giving me, yet I still wanted it. That's a little like addictive behavior.0
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williamwj2014 wrote: »williamwj2014 wrote: »williamwj2014 wrote: »Not even similar? Tough crowd. I won't try to convince you. But I will say when I cut back I got severe headaches, chills, fever, body aches, and you feel awful. You are weak. And a doctor typically monitors you very closely when you reduce sugar and carbs drastically. In my book that's close enough. But I understand how others don't consider it so.
Lol...you cut back on carbs, DUH you will feel weak. It's the first source your body uses for energy..
Not if you have insulin resistance... But I still named a bunch of other symptoms
The only thing out of those symptoms I experience if I cut back on carbs is the lack of energy and how weak it makes me feel but the others I only experience when I don't have some caffeine in my system soo..question is, are you cutting back on caffeine on those days too?
@williamwj2014 no I don't drink coffee or soda so I did not cut back on caffeine. Also, just because you didn't have those symptoms doesn't mean others don't.
Lol I'll let you win this round. But there's just no freakin way you can even say they're similar at all. You just can't compare the two..lol Not even a little bit.
Fine! Don't compare them. I can dig it.
It sounds far fetched. Especially if you've not experienced it. Lol if I give you this round then it's a draw! 0 -
williamwj2014 wrote: »williamwj2014 wrote: »williamwj2014 wrote: »Not even similar? Tough crowd. I won't try to convince you. But I will say when I cut back I got severe headaches, chills, fever, body aches, and you feel awful. You are weak. And a doctor typically monitors you very closely when you reduce sugar and carbs drastically. In my book that's close enough. But I understand how others don't consider it so.
Lol...you cut back on carbs, DUH you will feel weak. It's the first source your body uses for energy..
Not if you have insulin resistance... But I still named a bunch of other symptoms
The only thing out of those symptoms I experience if I cut back on carbs is the lack of energy and how weak it makes me feel but the others I only experience when I don't have some caffeine in my system soo..question is, are you cutting back on caffeine on those days too?
@williamwj2014 no I don't drink coffee or soda so I did not cut back on caffeine. Also, just because you didn't have those symptoms doesn't mean others don't.
Lol I'll let you win this round. But there's just no freakin way you can even say they're similar at all. You just can't compare the two..lol Not even a little bit.
Fine! Don't compare them. I can dig it. It sounds far fetched. Especially if you've not experienced it. Lol if I give you this round then it's a draw!
It's settled then!
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TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »I guess opinions and horrible analogies trump scientific studies once again.
There are scientific studies that support both sides of the argument that have been posted all over the boards. I asked a legitimate question, out of genuine curiosity.
How is my analogy horrible? They're very different substances and equating them in order to make an argument is unfair. I'm not saying there is no argument for sugar addiction- I'm saying that's not a great one.
They actually do have in-house treatment centers for sugar addiction and support groups.
Also, since you might of missed it, I'll post it again:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1931610/
"Our findings clearly demonstrate that intense sweetness can surpass cocaine reward, even in drug-sensitized and -addicted individuals. We speculate that the addictive potential of intense sweetness results from an inborn hypersensitivity to sweet tastants. In most mammals, including rats and humans, sweet receptors evolved in ancestral environments poor in sugars and are thus not adapted to high concentrations of sweet tastants. The supranormal stimulation of these receptors by sugar-rich diets, such as those now widely available in modern societies, would generate a supranormal reward signal in the brain, with the potential to override self-control mechanisms and thus to lead to addiction."
Does this one study make it 100% fact? No. But according to the scientific findings, "intense sweetness can surpass cocaine reward ..... with the potential to override self-control mechanisms and thus lead to addiction".TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »I guess opinions and horrible analogies trump scientific studies once again.
Numerous scientific studies have proven that humans don't become physically addicted to sugar. There was an amazing thread with multiple links posted on MFP about it just a month and a half ago or so.
Having been addicted to opioids at one point in my life and having experience the withdrawal and pain of weaning off of that over a period of a year, and still experiencing symptoms after that, I can safely say that sugar doesn't do any of that to people.
A person might experience some strong cravings for it, but it's absolutely untrue to say a person will be physically addicted to sugar.
Just because you have never been physically addicted to sugar doesn't mean it can't happen. People can use one thing in moderation yet fall victim to another. For you, opioids was your addiction yet people can use opioids in moderation. There are people who can use heroine and cocaine recreationally. Not everyone who uses hard drugs will become an addict. So when it comes down to sugar, yes, the cravings and addiction can be like illicit drugs.
Even if there are numerous scientific studies that prove one thing, showing one study that goes against it makes it open for debate and not 100% true or false.
This is that one (in case you missed it up above):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1931610/
"Our findings clearly demonstrate that intense sweetness can surpass cocaine reward, even in drug-sensitized and -addicted individuals. We speculate that the addictive potential of intense sweetness results from an inborn hypersensitivity to sweet tastants. In most mammals, including rats and humans, sweet receptors evolved in ancestral environments poor in sugars and are thus not adapted to high concentrations of sweet tastants. The supranormal stimulation of these receptors by sugar-rich diets, such as those now widely available in modern societies, would generate a supranormal reward signal in the brain, with the potential to override self-control mechanisms and thus to lead to addiction."
pretty sure insurance wont pay for in house sugar addiction. theres a reason why.0 -
Lasmartchika wrote: »Or sell all your family's belongings to get some quick money for some chocolate.
Yes, at first reading it sounds funny, because most people won't go to that degree to get some chocolate.
It also needs to be pointed out that especially here in MFP when it comes to drug addiction as an example, most of the time only those extreme cases are pointed out. We all know that for every case that is so extreme that a person would sell their belongings, steal from others or do other illegal acts to get to buy drugs there are thousands of those who still manage their lives to various degrees.
I have known people for example working within the Lutheran church who were hard core coke snorters, but on weekends only, while holding down their jobs and handling their families during the week. I knew a lot of people within the academic community who only smoked/took drugs on weekends and holidays and also handled other parts of their lives and did so rather well.
When I was in university in the 60's I smoked hash regularly and also took LSD on weekends, while maintaining an extremely high grade average and I knew many fellow students who did also.
So I can see that other addictions ( if that is what we call it ) like that to sugar, food in general or sex works according to the same addiction mechanics than those of average addicts....probably not the extreme ones. But as I said they are in a smaller % within the addiction community and should not be used for the standard example of an addict.
Thank you for your input @Ang108. Level-headedness and open-mindedness with a great deal of actual experience is always a breath of fresh air here.0 -
Sure wish someone would write up an explanation about what those brain certains and brain chemistry is. Might help people figure out how similar they are.PurringMyrrh wrote: »I'm saying yes. Not only because it feels like it to me, but I'm fairly sure there has been numerous studies that show it lights up the same areas of the brain and your body reacts similarly to both drugs and sugar.
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Nice rat study.TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »No.
If you've ever withdrawn from opiates , you wouldn't claim the feeling is the same.
I understand studies may show the same receptors are "lit" up, but that doesn't even compare.
Person A wants a cookie, doesn't get it.
person B is addicted to opiates and wants a fix but doesn't get it.
Person A would not go through the same withdraw symptoms as person b. Person B would be in extreme withdraw within hours and would experience symptoms like, vomiting, the shakes, diarrhea, pain and so on. Person A wouldn't experience those symptoms because they didn't get to eat a cookie.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1931610/
"Our findings clearly demonstrate that intense sweetness can surpass cocaine reward, even in drug-sensitized and -addicted individuals. We speculate that the addictive potential of intense sweetness results from an inborn hypersensitivity to sweet tastants. In most mammals, including rats and humans, sweet receptors evolved in ancestral environments poor in sugars and are thus not adapted to high concentrations of sweet tastants. The supranormal stimulation of these receptors by sugar-rich diets, such as those now widely available in modern societies, would generate a supranormal reward signal in the brain, with the potential to override self-control mechanisms and thus to lead to addiction."
How much does it say about animals that evolved from frugivores that survive on sugar?
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williamwj2014 wrote: »williamwj2014 wrote: »williamwj2014 wrote: »williamwj2014 wrote: »Not even similar? Tough crowd. I won't try to convince you. But I will say when I cut back I got severe headaches, chills, fever, body aches, and you feel awful. You are weak. And a doctor typically monitors you very closely when you reduce sugar and carbs drastically. In my book that's close enough. But I understand how others don't consider it so.
Lol...you cut back on carbs, DUH you will feel weak. It's the first source your body uses for energy..
Not if you have insulin resistance... But I still named a bunch of other symptoms
The only thing out of those symptoms I experience if I cut back on carbs is the lack of energy and how weak it makes me feel but the others I only experience when I don't have some caffeine in my system soo..question is, are you cutting back on caffeine on those days too?
@williamwj2014 no I don't drink coffee or soda so I did not cut back on caffeine. Also, just because you didn't have those symptoms doesn't mean others don't.
Lol I'll let you win this round. But there's just no freakin way you can even say they're similar at all. You just can't compare the two..lol Not even a little bit.
Fine! Don't compare them. I can dig it. It sounds far fetched. Especially if you've not experienced it. Lol if I give you this round then it's a draw!
It's settled then!
Lol! It is. I knew we could do it0 -
@Ang108 and @TrailBlazzinMN very well said.0
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Nice rat study.TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »No.
If you've ever withdrawn from opiates , you wouldn't claim the feeling is the same.
I understand studies may show the same receptors are "lit" up, but that doesn't even compare.
Person A wants a cookie, doesn't get it.
person B is addicted to opiates and wants a fix but doesn't get it.
Person A would not go through the same withdraw symptoms as person b. Person B would be in extreme withdraw within hours and would experience symptoms like, vomiting, the shakes, diarrhea, pain and so on. Person A wouldn't experience those symptoms because they didn't get to eat a cookie.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1931610/
"Our findings clearly demonstrate that intense sweetness can surpass cocaine reward, even in drug-sensitized and -addicted individuals. We speculate that the addictive potential of intense sweetness results from an inborn hypersensitivity to sweet tastants. In most mammals, including rats and humans, sweet receptors evolved in ancestral environments poor in sugars and are thus not adapted to high concentrations of sweet tastants. The supranormal stimulation of these receptors by sugar-rich diets, such as those now widely available in modern societies, would generate a supranormal reward signal in the brain, with the potential to override self-control mechanisms and thus to lead to addiction."
How much does it say about animals that evolved from frugivores that survive on sugar?
I was waiting for someone to point out that it was a rat study.
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Also, those same receptors in the brain light up when we hear a baby laugh. Are we addicted to baby giggles now too?0 -
TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »I guess opinions and horrible analogies trump scientific studies once again.
Scientific studies in RATS. Post the studies in humans. Full literature reviews of studies in humans do not support the finding of any food being addictive as a substance.
Now, if you want to talk about eating as a behavioral addiction, I might agree with you.
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This discussion has been closed.
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