October 2015 Running Challenge

kristinegift

ddmom0811 wrote: »

The weather was perfect! Sky clear, lots of stars. Maybe fall is arriving early in Florida! Mile 2 was 9:08 which for me is very fast.

After reading the descriptions of recovery runs, I suppose that's what I should have done, but I just ran. I feel like I am wandering aimlessly because I don't know have any races on the calendar other than a 5K in early December. This week, I just want to run. I get to run 3 days in a row because I can't bike tomorrow. I'm still on a high from the HM!

That's what I do when I finally run out my race schedule. I take a day or two (or three......) off and then just run whatever I feel like. It's nice to have some freedom with running again, isn't it?

Mari33a

DaveThomas1901

Some really impressive stats here, especially after a long run. I did a marathon two years ago and could hardly walk for three days after
Since then I run probably anything from 3 to 10 miles a week and have done one half marathon this year plus a 10 miler and two half marathons last year.
So this thread has been really good in that I have ran the most in the last week that I have done for a couple of years.

1/10 6.2
4/10 6.68
5/10 6.32
6/10 3
total 22.2
target 50 miles

patrikc333

@ddmom0811 ahah I didn't know that

and the most funny thing is that you expect, once you change running direction, that it is going to disappear, when it was constantly there no matter where I turned!

karllundy

10/1 - 3.1 miles on the 'mill; plus 5.8 miles / 20 minutes on stationary bike.
10/2 - Had to skip run/workout for a life insurance physical (bloodwork, etc.). Then, they couldn't get me to bleed, so I'm gonna have to do it again! Grrr!
10/3 - 11.5 miles with HM group; cool, beautiful weather!
10/4 - waaaayy overslept!
10/5 - not off to a good start this month; kids up half the night with illness / asthma issues
10/6 - 4.75 miles on a beautiful, cool morning.
10/7 - 4.85 miles of hills with HM group

MamaMollyT

7lenny7

I'm BACK!! Holy smokes you runners are keeping busy! Nearly 300 posts to go through since I last visited this fine, dedicated bunch! I as going to wait to post until I had gotten through everything but that might be a few days.

My youngest and I went on a 5 day camping trip on Superior's north shore. It was cold and crazy windy for most of the trip. We were in a tent with temps as low as 27F. We came prepared, kept warm, and had a great time.

I had to skip my planned run the day we left (Thursday) to make sure I had time to pack. I also skipped my planned run on Saturday because I opted to sleep in. That meant I had a 3 day stretch with no running for the first time since early August.

I did manage to get in a 5.6 mile run in on Sunday and 7.9 miles on Monday. I took Kody with me on Sunday but after that and a 5.5 mile hike that afternoon, he was licking his paws quite a bit so I pissed him off and left him behind Monday.

My runs were partly on snowmobile trail, partly on the Gitchi-Gami State Trail (paved). For some reason a Gordon Lightfoot song kept playing in my head during my run.

Temps were wonderful, between 35F and 40F, but I managed to overdress and sweat like crazy. Wicking short sleeve shirt and 1/4 zip long sleeve shirt both days, and either some Adidas running pants or New Balance tights. Even my hands got warm after a few miles. Next run at that temp range will find me in shorts and a single long sleeve shirt, no hat and no gloves.

Last week marks a huge cutback in miles, from 42.3 miles the week before to 14.2 miles last week. No regrets though. I skipped logging my food since my 13 year old son planned the menu (donuts for breakfast 3 mornings straight) and I didn't want to be on my phone much.

I'll crank up the miles again this week with a 18 mile run planned for Saturday. That will be my last long run before my Halloween HM.

From the runs:







From the hikes:








Our home for 4 nights:

JoRocka

ddmom0811 wrote: »

Oct 1 - cycling class
Oct 2 - rest - traveling
Oct 3 - rest
Oct 4 - 13.1 HM!
Oct 5 - rest - traveling
Oct 6 - cycling class
Oct 7 - 4.71 + strength training





The weather was perfect! Sky clear, lots of stars. Maybe fall is arriving early in Florida! Mile 2 was 9:08 which for me is very fast.

After reading the descriptions of recovery runs, I suppose that's what I should have done, but I just ran. I feel like I am wandering aimlessly because I don't know have any races on the calendar other than a 5K in early December. This week, I just want to run. I get to run 3 days in a row because I can't bike tomorrow. I'm still on a high from the HM!

@jorocka - is your HM this weekend coming up?
@patrikc333 - sorry but I had to laugh at "drizzle perpendicular to your eyes". I know just what you mean. Had it running and biking. When biking in a group, if the street is wet, the bike tire in front of you puts up this stream of water that the bikers call "rooster tail". It is a perfect arc right into the face of the biker behind. After a while you start feeling grit in your teeth which is debris from the road

Yeppers! This Saturday! I'm excited but happy to get it over with. I need some flex time with my running.

It's supposed to be raining and I'm reconsidering using my cotton blend pants and going to get a more synthetic quicker drying pant. I havd capris length ones but not full length ones so I may pop over to old Navy and see if they have them on sale for Columbus day.

Used my belt for the first time last night, it's okay. I'm not sure it's going to work for me bc it rides a little high and I prefer to run without a shirt and I suspect is going to a little rough on my skin. But I think it will be warm enough today to give it a shot. Last night wasn't warm enough for that.

skippygirlsmom

I hate rest days, but I did need it, my legs are a bit sore and tired.

@7lenny7 great pictures, sounds like an awesome trip. Your son is a mini you! He look just like you.

karllundy

@7lenny7 - great photos and looks like a fantastic trip! "Superior, they said, never gives up her dead..."

Stoshew71

Date Miles today. Miles for October

10/1 6.6 miles - 6.6
10/2 6.75 miles - 13.35
10/3 22.1 miles - 35.45
10/4 REST DAY
10/5 10.75 miles - 46.2
10/6 10.5 miles - 56.7
10/7 6.6 miles - 63.3

Ericsmi

10/1---4.50 miles
10/2---3.41 miles
10/3---2.61 miles
10/4---8.14 miles
10/5---3.06 miles
10/6---Rest Day
10/7---4.48 miles

snha

10/1 4.75 -- I would like to do 6+ miles in the coming days, so, am resting tomorrow!
10/2 rest day
10/3 6.51 -- first 10k, longest run (time), and farthest run (distance)
10/4 rest day--this was a horrible day, could not get any exercise done and felt miserable
10/5 no running, but good elliptical workout
10/6 5.53 -- excellent run. the weather was cool and crisp, my muscles cooperated and all went well
10/7 3.11 -- recovery run? that's what i thought of this one. felt good though!

7lenny7

catching up with old posts:

@kristinegift, Congrats on the HUGE PR!!! That is fantastic! You definitely earned it.
@mwyvr, a zero or low number on the ticker only means you have a lot of great running to look forward to that month!
@dennie24, great photo of you and your running partner!
@ddmom0811, congrats on your HM PR as well! Running it with your daughter must have been fantastic!
@elise4270, congrats on your first HM! Sorry to hear about the chaffing. The time difference seems odd, but the distance looks about right. Unless you run a perfect line you will always run a greater distance than the registered distance.

Looks like I missed the pet parade. Here's Kody at our campsite. We had winds of up to 25 MPH coming in off the Lake. For Kody it was almost as good as sticking his head out my truck window.

Stoshew71

snha wrote: »

So, what are recovery runs? I take it they are shorter runs done the day after an especially longer run? Now, what is an especially longer run? Would 6.5 miles count a long run? Often I feel I need to run for a couple of miles they day after. Does that count?

This morning is my recovery run. Usually every Wednesday and friday are my recovery runs. Personally, the reason why these days are my recovery runs is because Tuesday and Thursday are my "speed" days. They aren't really speed days but my tempo or lactate threshold days with some strides (or pick-ups) thrown in at the end. So the day after "speed days" for me I am very sore compared to the rest of the week. Sometimes, when it is really bad I will take an extra rest day like in my cutback weeks. But to be honest, I feel like I end up feeling better the day after a recovery run as opposed to taking a whole day off. I also dread recovery days. I rather run 10 miles with hills or do tempo pace for 4 miles in a good day then running slow 6 miles when my body is all achy and sore. My tempo pace is around 7:15 min miles or an easy day I could be running 8:30-9:00 min/miles, but on my recovery days they are more like 10, 11, and even 12 min miles. Some days I have no idea how I am walking let along running.

Before you read the next few paragraphs, just know you can skip to the very last paragraph if you don't think you can understand everything.

So what is the purpose of recovery miles? There are quite a few different thoughts on this, and different people have different opinions on what they really do for you as a runner. Some people think they are a waste of time and you hear the term, "junk miles" which is to suggest that you are running miles just for the sake of running them with no real purpose and no real benefit. people in this camp would tell you that it would be better to take the day off and rest your body.

This first article is from Matt Fitgerald.
http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/rethinking-junk-miles

His reason for running recovery miles is to continue to build neuromuscular coordination in a fatigued state without causing further training stress on your physical body.

This next article from Active.com says something very similar but in a little different way.
http://www.active.com/running/articles/a-fresh-perspective-on-recovery-runs

Again, you are building on neuromuscular coordination in a pre-fatigued state. This article goes into more details about how the brain learns to use your muscles differently when you are in a fatigued state and builds on your running eceonomy. Basically, in order to be a better runner when you are tired (such is the case when you are getting closer to the end of a long race) you have to practice your brain and muscles to run in that state.

Recovery Run from Runners Connect:
http://runnersconnect.net/running-injury-prevention/recovery-run/

Very general description of what it is but in context with the rest of your workouts.

Coach Alan Kipping-Ruane describes this as "active recovery":
http://breakingmuscle.com/mobility-recovery/what-does-active-recovery-actually-mean-how-to-define-a-recovery-ride-or-run

The key sentence in this article: "Active recovery focuses on completing a workout at a low intensity, but just high enough that it gets the blood moving and helps reduce residual fatigue in the muscle."

Active Recovery vs Rest Day
http://boxlifemagazine.com/active-recovery-the-difference-between-rest-days-and-recovery-days/

However, this article talks about using active recovery in clearing away "lactic acid" from your body. After reading the first 2 articles I listed above and what we know now about how lactate works, we know this part is not true. Lactate and hyrdogens ions are actually cleared within an hour of a hard workout and do not linger in our body for days. If you read the 1 comment below the article, this guy got it mostly right:

"Lactic acid is a buffer system which helps to decrease your blood pH after protons (hydrogen ions) negatively affect your body. Lactate is naturally produced throughout your body even at rest. The reason why you feel sore after working out is because of micro tears in the muscle tissue and the nerves associated with the muscle. The theory that we need to "push the lactuc out" is not a supported theory after new research. Its an old misconception that we need to look past."

The truth is that Lactate and hydrogen ions are produced in different stages of glycolysis. Glycolysis is the first process our body takes in converting sugar (glucose) from our blood into some energy (2 ATP). Something called pyruvate is a result after some processing is done on the glucose. If there is enough oxygen that is fed into your muscle mitochrondria, then the pyruvate is also fed into the mitochondria. The next stage is something called the Krebs cycle and it further processes the pyruvate. The result of the Krebs cycle is then fed into something called the Electron Transport Chain (ETC) where 30 ATP is produced and the hydrogen ions are then consumed by the oxygen we breathed in to produce CO2 (carbon dioxide waste which we breath out). Glycolysis is an anaerobic (without oxygen) process while the Krebs Cycle and ETC make up together what is called the aerobic (requires oxygen) metabolism process. The problem exists when we have a huge demand for energy (running fast) and we are processing oxygen too slow. Glycolysis is backed up because not enough oxygen is available to the mitochondria or the available mitochrondria is too busy. In this case, glycolysis needs to complete the cycle in order to continue. The result is a fermentation process of this pyruvate to allow glycolysis (the anaerobic process) to continue even when not enough oxygen is present. This [lactic] fermentation turns pyruvate into something called lactate. (It is a similar process of turning sugar into alcohol in alcohol fermentation). But since there is not enough oxygen to consume the hydrogen ions (in the ETC stage) these ions build up and do cause a burning sensation. Lactate can be used by other muscle cells for energy just like pyruvate or it can be carried in our blood where our liver can turn it back into glycogen. The lactate and ions are eventually cleared within an hour after intense activity is completed. The concept of "lactic acid" is an old incorrect concept of how these systems work. However, some people still preach the old concept in error.

Bringing back the discussion of active recovery and recovery runs....

When we run (especially at high intensities or long distances) we loose stored carbs in our muscles cells (glycogen). After a major workout, there is a window (between 30 to 60 minutes) of when our muscles become really sensitive to insulin to allow rapid recovery to basically allow the insulin to "shove glucose" back into our muscle cells. We call this high uptake of glucose. You actually don't need a hard workout to experience this high uptake. You can also do an active recovery run. Not intense to cause more training stimuli, but enough to get the blood moving and cause an "anabolic phase". So after a recovery run, it is very important to consume enough fast acting glucose (simple carbs) that are quickly digested and absorbed into our body. The video I posted the other day suggested 1/2 our body weigh in grams of carbs (so if you weigh 150 lbs you need to consume 75 grams of carbs within this 30-60 minute window). It is also good to eat quick absorbing protein in this window since our muscles also have a high uptake of amino acids as well. The suggestion was for every 4 grams of carbs, to eat 1 gram of protein. So that same 150 lb person who will eat 75 g of carbs should also take in ~19 g of protein.

https://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article folder/nutrientUNM.html


One more thing I wanted to discuss in relationship to recovery runs. In order to understand this last part, we have to understand that our muscles are made up of different muscle types. We have slow twitch (type 1) medium twitch (type 2a) and fast twitch (type 2x). Slow twitch muscle fibers are recruited when your brain sends the signal that we are running at slow intensities but for long distances. Fast twitch muscles are recruited when we are running at hard intensities (sprinting or up a intense hill). There is also a recruitment ladder (when our slow twitch muscles are tired we begin to use our medium or fast twitch muscles to keep the same pace and intensity).

http://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/muscle-fibers-how-they-work/

The idea is that during your recovery run, you are practicing muscle rucruitment while in an already fatgued state. This well help you in the later stages of a long race.

Finally, use recovery mileage as part of your 80/20 rule. 80% of all your weekly miles should be easy (conversational or slower). Only 20% of your weekly mileage should be intense (tempo, steady state, VO2 max, intervals, repeats, ect). Recovery runs should make up much or part of the 80%.

http://running.competitor.com/2014/06/training/train-slower-race-faster_52242


I know this is a very long and detailed discussion. But you know me, I am very thorough in my explanations. :-)

To bring all this into conclusion. If you didn't understand everything above, just know this about recovery runs. They are ran at a much slower pace and shorter distances. The idea is not to work your body into a training stress. But the purpose of the recovery run is multi-fold. It helps in the process of recovery by allowing your blood to move faster (more oxygen and nutrients are being delivered and stimulate high uptake of protein and glucose). So eating half your body weight in grams of simple carbs as well as 1/8 your body weight in grams of quick absorbing protein within 30-60 minutes after a recovery run is important for overall recovery. The fact that lingering lactic acid is being cleared through a recovery run is a myth created by an old incorrect understanding of how the body produces and uses lactate. The recovery run will induce other harmones into the muscles to stimulate faster recovery but lactic acid is not being flushed out. Recovery runs also facilitate further muscle memory development and neuromuscular coordination by allowing you to run while in a prefatigued state which will help you in the later stages of a long race and makes running your natural form much easier (always make sure you use proper running form during your RR). Usually active recovery (or recovery runs) is performed 12-24 hours after a more intense key workout. Active recovery is an important part of overall training but does not replace total rest. You add in recovery mileage to your overall weekly miles just like you would any other miles. So no more than 10% of last week's mileage should be added to this week. Or safer yet, add only 1 mile per week or every 2 weeks. Recovery runs make up a proportion of the 80% of easy running that you do in a week. If you are trying to decide whether to take active recovery or fully rest, ask yourself this question. Can I run and still mantain proper form? If I can't then cut the run short immediately or take a full rest day. Never run with improper running form. This will only further exasperate any injury.

tdbernrd

10/1--Workout B & walking
10/2--Workout C & 3.24 miles
10/3--10.48 miles
10/4--rest day
10/5--4.5 miles
10/6--Workout A
10/7--4.42 miles(Whoop whoop! Even though it's warmed up again, my pace was good.)

rogue024

@7lenny7 - welcome back! Beautiful pictures and I love the place where you were.
@Stoshew71 - thank you! I have a lot of reading to do tonight.
@ddmom0811 - too funny about the airport lol. Love the crown! I did my first marathon a few years ago solely because I really liked the finishing medal. It was a runner carrying a surfboard while running haha.

7lenny7

Auna01 wrote: »

Way to go everyone! I am amazed by so many of you! Today's run felt good, but man am I slow! I hope to catch up speed wise someday.

@Auna01, you are every bit as fast as you need to be. No one here started out running 20 minute 5K's.
@melaniefave41, take care of yourself! Drinks lots of fluids and get some pupply snugglin'
@ddmom0811, great TSA story!
@msf74, I like your choices for rehydrating!
@skippygirlsmom, thanks, but I don't know how "mini" his is. He's 13 years old and is already 6'2". He defines the word 'lanky'. I'm 6'5" and I suspect he'll be taller than that before he graduates.

Well I'm all caught up with the thread, with the exception of @Stoshew71's treatise on recovery runs. I think I now have six of his posts bookmarked for later reference. Stan's posts have been VERY helpful to me, particularly when I first started running.

jtarmom

10/2 - 4.16 miles
10/3 - 6.22 miles
10/5 - 3 miles
10/7 - 3.23 miles


I'm starting to get a weird pain under my kneecap (kind of on the lower outside) when I first start running, or even just walking around barefoot if my leg twists a little. Goes away after a quarter of a mile or so, and actually feels great after I'm done. I'm going to keep an eye on it, I hope its just from hiking in crappy shoes this past weekend. I'm going to rest until my 5k Saturday and see how it goes. T-minus 18 days until my half marathon!

dennie24

Thank you everyone for your kind words about the picture I posted. If you are interested in doing any Harry Potter themed virtual runs, you can find the Hogwarts Running Club on Facebook and Instagram.

Adding 2.21 miles from Monday and 3.59 miles from this morning. This morning was 54 degrees and it felt great!