I'm a geek: I read 2 atkins books this week.
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Gianfranco_R wrote: »
If I was with this egomaniac (I'm referring to the author) and he got me a caffeinated beverage when I asked for decaf, or a sugar-full green tea latte when I asked for sugar-free, because HE thought my reasons for ordering as I did were invalid, I'd be tempted to kick him in his undersized misters.
Now, back to MSG. How, exactly does the good Dr.Ph.D. know if his colleagues (for whom he was interpreting!!!!!!!) suffered no ill effects. Was he with them 24/7?
I can tell you from experience that when I travel abroad with colleagues, I don't share my every ache and pain with them.
That post suggest a disrespectful, arrogant twerp.
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I have a friend who gets migraines from MSG. I believe him. He is affected by many foods. He doesn't just get migraines when he eats out at a Chinese place. It's not in his head just because MSG doesn't bother all or even most.
Non sequitur. In fact, that's exactly why the MSG is probably not causing it - if he gets migraines from lots of thing it's probably those things instead of the MSG.
Not that either of us have any evidence, but this is a really bad reason to believe in the MSG lie.
It took him years to figure out what was wrong. Trial and error to find his triggers. Kind of like how it took me 38 years to discover that I had celiac disease. Who would have thought that the innocent PBJ sandwich would cause arthritis, hair loss, fatigue, migraines and stomach aches for days?
It is pretty egocentric of you to assume you know what affects his health. There are a few common additives that get him. He rarely eats out now, and cannot even eat at most people's homes. If he avoids them he is fine. I doubt he cured himself with the power of his mind.
I was told it was all in my head too, starting from childhood. Just because the doctor didn't figure it out doesn't mean it isn't real.0 -
I'm not finishing the Gluten Lie. I am learning nothing, and he is just annoying me with his theories. He should have stuck with religion.
I wouldn't buy that book. I regret getting it from the library. LOL
JMO0 -
IdoScience wrote: »This one was a good read:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Low-Carb-Myth-Determine/dp/1942761325/ref=br_lf_m_497vzbcvrpng9yy_1_1_img/181-2648524-1335660?ie=UTF8&s=books
If you want to get really deep this post by researcher Denise Minger is great
http://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/
I will look into the Low Carb Myth. I am eating LCHF to improve my health, and it has worked. The book looks like it focuses on fat loss with a higher carb diet only, and not the improvements to autoimmune diseases or arthritis - inflammation - on a LCHF diet.... Doesn't look promising to someone coming from my direction. More of a "rah-rah moderation" book.0 -
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IdoScience wrote: »IdoScience wrote: »This one was a good read:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Low-Carb-Myth-Determine/dp/1942761325/ref=br_lf_m_497vzbcvrpng9yy_1_1_img/181-2648524-1335660?ie=UTF8&s=books
If you want to get really deep this post by researcher Denise Minger is great
http://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/
I will look into the Low Carb Myth. I am eating LCHF to improve my health, and it has worked. The book looks like it focuses on fat loss with a higher carb diet only, and not the improvements to autoimmune diseases or arthritis - inflammation - on a LCHF diet.... Doesn't look promising to someone coming from my direction. More of a "rah-rah moderation" book.
Not really about "moderation". The author is definitely against highly processed foods. But he does dive into a lot of the dogma with low carb diets, it doesn't quite go far enough into the metabolic and hormonal disruptions around long term low carb diets.
What metabolic and hormonal disruptions?0 -
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IdoScience wrote: »If you want to get really deep this post by researcher Denise Minger is great
http://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/
I read this a couple of days ago and found it quite interesting, agreed.0 -
I have not read this closely yet (disclaimer: I don't agree with everything she says, on a wide range of topics), but I do occasionally listen to her podcast and listened to the one in which she discussed the subject matter of the blog post). However, I am posting this here, because the list of sources in the pdf at the end look like readings that people in this thread might enjoy or at least find interesting: http://www.thepaleomom.com/2015/05/adverse-reactions-to-ketogenic-diets-caution-advised.html0
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IdoScience wrote: »IdoScience wrote: »This one was a good read:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Low-Carb-Myth-Determine/dp/1942761325/ref=br_lf_m_497vzbcvrpng9yy_1_1_img/181-2648524-1335660?ie=UTF8&s=books
If you want to get really deep this post by researcher Denise Minger is great
http://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/
I will look into the Low Carb Myth. I am eating LCHF to improve my health, and it has worked. The book looks like it focuses on fat loss with a higher carb diet only, and not the improvements to autoimmune diseases or arthritis - inflammation - on a LCHF diet.... Doesn't look promising to someone coming from my direction. More of a "rah-rah moderation" book.
Not really about "moderation". The author is definitely against highly processed foods. But he does dive into a lot of the dogma with low carb diets, it doesn't quite go far enough into the metabolic and hormonal disruptions around long term low carb diets.
I felt it was about moderation. A little bit won't kill you sort of thinking.
I jumped to the low carb chapter. He did not seem to say lchf was good or bad for anyone. There was a lot of name calling with some very specific quotes. I wasn't impressed.
At the end of the book he revealed his UNpacked Diet. lol. In the first sentence of this chapter he says "With JUST (capitals his) 9 days on the UNpacked Diet, you'll be jump- started on the path health." I am hoping it was tongue in cheek, but I am not willing to read more to know for sure.
As for hormonal disruptions, I have not read anything to support that. I know it has balanced my insulin hormone.
I also know that not everyone would benefit from a lchf just like a zone or moderation diet will not help everyone.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »IdoScience wrote: »If you want to get really deep this post by researcher Denise Minger is great
http://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/
I read this a couple of days ago and found it quite interesting, agreed.
I'll read all of this later. Kempler (sp?) diet is what I was eating when I became prediabetic, unless I am reading it wrong.0 -
I also know that not everyone would benefit from a lchf just like a zone or moderation diet will not help everyone.
This I agree with. If everyone could agree on this and not insist that there's One Best Diet (which IMO seems to be promoted mainly by the keto folks, but occasionally by moderation types), we'd have a much happier forum.0 -
Here's another suggestion: The Starch Solution - by Dr. John McDougall.0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I also know that not everyone would benefit from a lchf just like a zone or moderation diet will not help everyone.
This I agree with. If everyone could agree on this and not insist that there's One Best Diet (which IMO seems to be promoted mainly by the keto folks, but occasionally by moderation types), we'd have a much happier forum.
Mainly. ha.
Not even close to true.
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IdoScience wrote: »IdoScience wrote: »This one was a good read:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Low-Carb-Myth-Determine/dp/1942761325/ref=br_lf_m_497vzbcvrpng9yy_1_1_img/181-2648524-1335660?ie=UTF8&s=books
If you want to get really deep this post by researcher Denise Minger is great
http://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/
I will look into the Low Carb Myth. I am eating LCHF to improve my health, and it has worked. The book looks like it focuses on fat loss with a higher carb diet only, and not the improvements to autoimmune diseases or arthritis - inflammation - on a LCHF diet.... Doesn't look promising to someone coming from my direction. More of a "rah-rah moderation" book.
Not really about "moderation". The author is definitely against highly processed foods. But he does dive into a lot of the dogma with low carb diets, it doesn't quite go far enough into the metabolic and hormonal disruptions around long term low carb diets.
I felt it was about moderation. A little bit won't kill you sort of thinking.
I jumped to the low carb chapter. He did not seem to say lchf was good or bad for anyone. There was a lot of name calling with some very specific quotes. I wasn't impressed.
At the end of the book he revealed his UNpacked Diet. lol. In the first sentence of this chapter he says "With JUST (capitals his) 9 days on the UNpacked Diet, you'll be jump- started on the path health." I am hoping it was tongue in cheek, but I am not willing to read more to know for sure.
As for hormonal disruptions, I have not read anything to support that. I know it has balanced my insulin hormone.
I also know that not everyone would benefit from a lchf just like a zone or moderation diet will not help everyone.
I like the general gist of this article
http://psychologyofeating.com/3-levels-diet/
Not painful to read like Gluten Lie - promise
Side note...found it interesting when my Doc told me she recently diagnosed a husband a wife with celiacs (bowel biopsy) at 65yo! How long did they suffer I wondered?0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I also know that not everyone would benefit from a lchf just like a zone or moderation diet will not help everyone.
This I agree with. If everyone could agree on this and not insist that there's One Best Diet (which IMO seems to be promoted mainly by the keto folks, but occasionally by moderation types), we'd have a much happier forum.
Mainly. ha.
Not even close to true.
Lol.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I also know that not everyone would benefit from a lchf just like a zone or moderation diet will not help everyone.
This I agree with. If everyone could agree on this and not insist that there's One Best Diet (which IMO seems to be promoted mainly by the keto folks, but occasionally by moderation types), we'd have a much happier forum.
I don't know if it is mostly keto folks... there's a lot less of us around. I suppose it is possible that we are both noticing the posts that bother us - posts that say our way of eating is wrong or inferior.0 -
I don't read diet books. This is what I'm reading now. It's about making lifestyle changes and why doctors are so ineffective in getting their patients to change how they live (95% of heart attack people go back to the same habits as before even though they've been told they'll probably die if they do that).
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IdoScience wrote: »IdoScience wrote: »This one was a good read:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Low-Carb-Myth-Determine/dp/1942761325/ref=br_lf_m_497vzbcvrpng9yy_1_1_img/181-2648524-1335660?ie=UTF8&s=books
If you want to get really deep this post by researcher Denise Minger is great
http://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/
I will look into the Low Carb Myth. I am eating LCHF to improve my health, and it has worked. The book looks like it focuses on fat loss with a higher carb diet only, and not the improvements to autoimmune diseases or arthritis - inflammation - on a LCHF diet.... Doesn't look promising to someone coming from my direction. More of a "rah-rah moderation" book.
Not really about "moderation". The author is definitely against highly processed foods. But he does dive into a lot of the dogma with low carb diets, it doesn't quite go far enough into the metabolic and hormonal disruptions around long term low carb diets.
I felt it was about moderation. A little bit won't kill you sort of thinking.
I jumped to the low carb chapter. He did not seem to say lchf was good or bad for anyone. There was a lot of name calling with some very specific quotes. I wasn't impressed.
At the end of the book he revealed his UNpacked Diet. lol. In the first sentence of this chapter he says "With JUST (capitals his) 9 days on the UNpacked Diet, you'll be jump- started on the path health." I am hoping it was tongue in cheek, but I am not willing to read more to know for sure.
As for hormonal disruptions, I have not read anything to support that. I know it has balanced my insulin hormone.
I also know that not everyone would benefit from a lchf just like a zone or moderation diet will not help everyone.
I like the general gist of this article
http://psychologyofeating.com/3-levels-diet/
Not painful to read like Gluten Lie - promise
Side note...found it interesting when my Doc told me she recently diagnosed a husband a wife with celiacs (bowel biopsy) at 65yo! How long did they suffer I wondered?
I like that theory. Therapeutic, maintenance and experimental... I like how these are different for everyone and how it can change.
As a celiac, eating GF was therapeutic at first. I've now been doing it long enough that it is maintenance. Due to my celiac disease, I could not have milk for a few years. It went through therapeutic and into maintenance, and now it is experimental as I see what I can add back.
Eating keto is therapeutic for me now. It has helped in many ways. Perhaps one day it won't be as helpful and I'll change, or maybe it will just slide into maintenance.
Good ideas in that link.
Hopefully that elderly celiac couple developed CD late in life....0 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »
This is by no means the only experiment on MSG. It had already been proven to be safe.
You said it was unethical, not immoral.0 -
47Jacqueline wrote: »I don't read diet books. This is what I'm reading now. It's about making lifestyle changes and why doctors are so ineffective in getting their patients to change how they live (95% of heart attack people go back to the same habits as before even though they've been told they'll probably die if they do that).
Yikes.
it is sad but I believe it. I needed a fair bit of health problems to prompt me to change before I finally did it. And then it was one of those cases where the results were so good, and it was easy enough to implement, that I was asking myself why I didn't do it sooner. 0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I also know that not everyone would benefit from a lchf just like a zone or moderation diet will not help everyone.
This I agree with. If everyone could agree on this and not insist that there's One Best Diet (which IMO seems to be promoted mainly by the keto folks, but occasionally by moderation types), we'd have a much happier forum.
I don't know if it is mostly keto folks... there's a lot less of us around. I suppose it is possible that we are both noticing the posts that bother us - posts that say our way of eating is wrong or inferior.
Especially on the main boards.
And yes, this is quite right: we see what we see. We don't see the world as it is. Human nature.0 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »
This is by no means the only experiment on MSG. It had already been proven to be safe.
You said it was unethical, not immoral.
There's a difference between "safe" and appropriate for everyone. Tomatoes are safe. They made my father ill.
"safe" doesn't make that jerk's behavior any more right.0 -
47Jacqueline wrote: »I don't read diet books. This is what I'm reading now. It's about making lifestyle changes and why doctors are so ineffective in getting their patients to change how they live (95% of heart attack people go back to the same habits as before even though they've been told they'll probably die if they do that).
Yikes. it is sad but I believe it. I needed a fair bit of health problems to prompt me to change before I finally did it. And then it was one of those cases where the results were so good, and it was easy enough to implement, that I was asking myself why I didn't do it sooner.
I've heard good things about that book, too. I need to put it on my 'check the used bookstore for it every time I go in there' list.
I still don't know what changed me. I think I could just say it was blind, silly luck. Because it sure wasn't a logical, rational, long look at my situation. It was more impulse. Well, my impulses have screwed my life up royally before, about time I had one fix things for me!0 -
IdoScience wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »IdoScience wrote: »IdoScience wrote: »This one was a good read:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Low-Carb-Myth-Determine/dp/1942761325/ref=br_lf_m_497vzbcvrpng9yy_1_1_img/181-2648524-1335660?ie=UTF8&s=books
If you want to get really deep this post by researcher Denise Minger is great
http://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/
I will look into the Low Carb Myth. I am eating LCHF to improve my health, and it has worked. The book looks like it focuses on fat loss with a higher carb diet only, and not the improvements to autoimmune diseases or arthritis - inflammation - on a LCHF diet.... Doesn't look promising to someone coming from my direction. More of a "rah-rah moderation" book.
Not really about "moderation". The author is definitely against highly processed foods. But he does dive into a lot of the dogma with low carb diets, it doesn't quite go far enough into the metabolic and hormonal disruptions around long term low carb diets.
What metabolic and hormonal disruptions?
I apologize for the long video. It is queued up to start hopefully at 13:51. Also the last 25-30 minutes the Q&A asks and talks about keto diets.
this is a presentation by an endocrinologist with 25 years of clinical experience specializing in diabetes. In this presentation she discusses how low carb diets affects your hormones and metabolism and patients developing diabetes from low carb diets who never had diabetes before. Also, that going too low in carbs is a stressor on the body(adrenals?). The biochemistry is above the layman head, but it is very eye opening seeing as her old books were based on using low carb diets. My lab result confirm a lot of what negative effects she is talking about. She says short-term low carb studies are promising but the negative effects don't manifest until a much longer timeframe. She discusses nitric oxide,cortisol, adrenaline, noradrenaline, insulin, thyroid, adrenal fatigue etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm0MG_zYIdQ&t=13m51s
Thanks. I'll give it a watch.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »
This is by no means the only experiment on MSG. It had already been proven to be safe.
You said it was unethical, not immoral.
There's a difference between "safe" and appropriate for everyone. Tomatoes are safe. They made my father ill.
"safe" doesn't make that jerk's behavior any more right.
I disagree, but we're getting off topic.0 -
My next purchase.
I'd never heard of that one, but I'm curious. I requested it from my library too.
I've never heard of Levinovitz either. It appears he is an assistant professor of religion who focuses on Chinese thought... I'm wondering how well researched his book is, or if it is largely a rant over dietary changes over the last few decades.
You wondered if it's crap or if it's crap.
You were predisposed to dislike this book.
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My next purchase.
I'd never heard of that one, but I'm curious. I requested it from my library too.
I've never heard of Levinovitz either. It appears he is an assistant professor of religion who focuses on Chinese thought... I'm wondering how well researched his book is, or if it is largely a rant over dietary changes over the last few decades.
You wondered if it's crap or if it's crap.
You were predisposed to dislike this book.
You're right. I wasn't disappointed.0
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