I'm a geek: I read 2 atkins books this week.
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echmainfit619 wrote: »Just remember that the #1 priority of a "diet book" is to sell the book.
well, yeah. They want to make money. As do all the fitness apps etc. It's all buyer beware.0 -
Trying to find the "cure" once on for all...
When in reality is a personal jouney not "one fits all" like most diet books wants us to believe...but I'm guilty I still reach for the latest at Amazon/libraries etc0 -
Trying to find the "cure" once on for all...
When in reality is a personal jouney not "one fits all" like most diet books wants us to believe...but I'm guilty I still reach for the latest at Amazon/libraries etc
I haven't said anything about finding a "cure". I started a thread saying I read some books, and LIKED reading the source materials (the invited inference being: what's said HERE is not always what the source material says)....
Reading all of these books DOES, however help me on my personal journey. I have incorporated ideas from many books (diet, fitness, habits etc.) into my now 14 years of maintaining my weight loss. Learning is good. And as I've now hit menopause, logic suggests I lower my carbs a bit more (everything I've read to date suggests that post menopausal women should have lower carbs), so I'm reading and tweaking as needed. Again, reading the source materials, rather than just relying on folks here, and "IRL" who may have read, or may just be passing along hearsay.
Having now ready a few low carb books (and re-read a few), it's kind of eye opening.
heck, even the atkins website is eye opening.0 -
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Maybe I've been reading the wrong ones...my next one is going to be "The gluten lie" sounds interesting
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RockstarWilson wrote: »I generally go with personal experience and will be trying things out. Moore (or Westman) says that too much protein can be bad for ketosis. However, Dr. Donald Layman's research on protein shows evidence that a certain protein threshold is needed for muscle maintenance or growth (which contain specified amounts of the BCAA leucine). I am going to review his study presented in 2013.
my take home message from Layman was to have ~25 grams of protein at a meal to exceed his "anabolic threshold". 3 * 25 = 75g per day wouldn't challenge most people's tolerance for protein while maintaining ketosis.
Indeed. However, the conflict comes in when people who are in NK do not typically eat in 4-5 hour periods, as the production of grehlin is suppressed due to fat content of meals.
The period of anabolic protein synthesis, according to his data, lasts for about 1.5-3 hours, and then it reaches a catabolic state, requiring more input of BCAAs from protein sources to re-feed the muscles.
The benefits of NK focus on energy expenditure with less nutritional input, as many keto advocates have noted, and the primary focus is on weight loss. But Dr. Layman points out that timing of these meals is important to protein synthesis, and is in contrast to the desired timing of meals if NK is achieved.0 -
I believe that no matter the book, the one broad focus of any of them is creating a hypothesis for why modern society got so out of shape so fast, and what is the best method of changing our eating habits when our lifestyles will not change? In contrast to our ancestors, we are primarily a sedentary society, and food is always a reach away. Since it is so accessible, why do we eat so much of it? Is there a chemical reason?
Books and literature are wonderful, as each one is filled with the author's/authors' own ideas and perspective. Scientific minds change with new evidence for or against a certain hypothesis. I once believed that attaining NK was optimal for my fitness gains. At the time I attempted it, it worked. I would start the day with nothing but fat and minimal protein (in comparison), not eat for 12 hours, and do the same at night. But Dr. Laymans findings show this might not be the best option for me.0 -
RockstarWilson wrote: »I believe that no matter the book, the one broad focus of any of them is creating a hypothesis for why modern society got so out of shape so fast, and what is the best method of changing our eating habits when our lifestyles will not change? In contrast to our ancestors, we are primarily a sedentary society, and food is always a reach away. Since it is so accessible, why do we eat so much of it? Is there a chemical reason?
Books and literature are wonderful, as each one is filled with the author's/authors' own ideas and perspective. Scientific minds change with new evidence for or against a certain hypothesis. I once believed that attaining NK was optimal for my fitness gains. At the time I attempted it, it worked. I would start the day with nothing but fat and minimal protein (in comparison), not eat for 12 hours, and do the same at night. But Dr. Laymans findings show this might not be the best option for me.
I'm not sure I'd be happy in my day to day life in NK. I REALLY like my plant foods. Lots of them. Low(er) carb is no problem.
But yes, it would be great to look at, objectively, what went so wrong.0 -
A really good cookbook is Paleo Takeout. I don't follow paleo, or even really know what it is, but I found a lot of recipes that work for me. There are substitutes for dairy, cheese, etc. if you don't want to eat dairy.0
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RockstarWilson wrote: »Since it is so accessible, why do we eat so much of it?
I think this is an interesting question, but for many of us I think it's really simple -- we eat it because it's there.
There's no reason for humans to have evolved to stop wanting food when we've had our TDEE for the day. To the contrary, it was probably evolutionarily helpful to be able to eat when food was there beyond TDEE to store up fat for the next fasting/famine period, and being overweight wasn't actually a risk.
What I think has changed since, say, the 80s more than the specific foods available or the actual environment are our food customs. For various reasons people do seem to eat all the time now, and to have food available all the time. For me, the easiest and simplest way to start eating a proper number of calories is just eat like I did as a kid -- at mealtimes plus an after dinner dessert if I've otherwise eaten well that day. (I used to have an after school snack and now I might have a post workout/pre workout snack depending on when I work out.) The side effect of that is that I eat better, since foods I eat at meals have always been pretty nutritious, while extras eaten for social reasons or because there are there have always been where I ate lower nutrient things.
IMO, far more than changing what we ate, the negative effects of the food marketing is that people decided they needed to eat all the time and snack stuff is always available and not merely a special treat. This is also related to the decline of social rituals around eating, like the family meal, and people needing to eat on the go, etc. One reason I keep dinner as my largest meal is I like to be able to sit down and really appreciate the food, to eat mindfully, and that's harder to do at lunch or breakfast, when I tend to be surfing the internet (and at lunch I'm at my desk). Once eating became something we do when doing other things, it made it easier to be something we find enjoyable to do all day or for reasons other than true hunger. Well, at least some of us can fall into that.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Trying to find the "cure" once on for all...
When in reality is a personal jouney not "one fits all" like most diet books wants us to believe...but I'm guilty I still reach for the latest at Amazon/libraries etc
I haven't said anything about finding a "cure". I started a thread saying I read some books, and LIKED reading the source materials (the invited inference being: what's said HERE is not always what the source material says)....
Reading all of these books DOES, however help me on my personal journey. I have incorporated ideas from many books (diet, fitness, habits etc.) into my now 14 years of maintaining my weight loss. Learning is good. And as I've now hit menopause, logic suggests I lower my carbs a bit more (everything I've read to date suggests that post menopausal women should have lower carbs), so I'm reading and tweaking as needed. Again, reading the source materials, rather than just relying on folks here, and "IRL" who may have read, or may just be passing along hearsay.
Having now ready a few low carb books (and re-read a few), it's kind of eye opening.
heck, even the atkins website is eye opening.
For years my MIL has been on the Atkins on and off. I'll admit I developed a certain bias that was negative because of her. Another friend was quite knowledgable on it and what she said didn't jive with the MIL. Then I read Atkins (because in my mind you have to know to undo) and what I read was nothing like what my MIL touted about the method. I was pleasantly surprised. I think MIL had read what she wanted to read into it. I can't remember the details of that though.
I see a similar attitude towards the 5:2 - users and commentators alike. Users that haven't read the material, misunderstanding the method and the basis of it.
I've read a tonne of diet books. I've exhausted my library. There is a lot of crap out there. But it also helped me see what they had in common when you ditch the gimmick. I can read a whole book and come away with one new idea and that makes it worth it.Damn, I can't do podcasts. My internet is crap.
download the file overnight ? http://media.blubrry.com/evilsugarradio/p/www.evilsugarradio.com/podcasts/episode85.mp3
Thank you.
I have tried this before with updates and podcasts and music but I wake up to a time out message. (Very frustrating - unfortunately our options with Internet are very limited ATM).
ETA: it is the reason I have so few posts even though I've been here since 2011! But that's probably a blessing...actually I'm pretty sure it's a good thing in that regard! 0 -
My next purchase.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2015/04/food_fad_evidence_logic_and_science_can_fight_misperceptions_about_nutrition.html
Here is a quote from Alan Levinovitz's Slate piece, "The Logical Failures of Food Fads". . . We’ve been primed to think this way. After all, the world’s most famous myth recounts a dietary fall from grace. Long ago, humans lived in an organic, all-natural, divinely designed garden, free from pesticides and GMOs and processed grains and sugar. But one day an evil advertiser came along and hissed, “Just eat this fruit.” Bam! Suddenly we were cursed with mortality, marital strife, labor pains, and agriculture.
Secular variants on the Eden myth are common in rationalizations of food fads. Adam and Eve get replaced by indigenous tribespeople or traditional Greek islanders, all of whom remain in the proverbial garden, lean and healthy and blessed. In its most recent incarnation, Paleolithic man is the culinary hero, and instead of disobeying God, we modern grain-eaters sin by disobeying the law of evolution.
Superstitious and unscientific food beliefs—the focus of my book, The Gluten Lie: And Other Myths About What You Eat—feature prominently in the research of Paul Rozin, a psychologist at the University of Pennsylvania. Rozin is best known for coining the phrase the omnivore’s dilemma—which food writer Michael Pollan popularized as the title of his 2006 best-seller—and he has written extensively on how we perceive what we eat.0 -
If anyone reads the Gluten Lie and finds it interesting and not too absurdly biased, give me a holler and I'll put it in my queue. Thanks.0
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Next up for me: The Big Fat Surprise.0
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »If anyone reads the Gluten Lie and finds it interesting and not too absurdly biased, give me a holler and I'll put it in my queue. Thanks.
I just started reading Gluten Lie yesterday. I'm not overly impressed so far. The introduction goes on an on over MSG and how people who claim to have their health negatively affected by it , aren't. It's all in their heads. Apparently it was all in their heads before the individuals figured out what caused their symptoms, and it is all in their heads now that they think it is MSG.
I have a friend who gets migraines from MSG. I believe him. He is affected by many foods. He doesn't just get migraines when he eats out at a Chinese place. It's not in his head just because MSG doesn't bother all or even most.
It got my back up because I'm a celiac, and every single celiac I have ever talked with has been told that it is all in their head, or it is just natural for them to have those symptoms. "It's all in your head" in my experience, is docotese for "I can't figure out what is wrong so there must be nothing wrong." I suppose that is true once in a while, but in a majority of cases, I doubt it.
I'll keep reading but Gluten Lie doesn't look promising.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »If anyone reads the Gluten Lie and finds it interesting and not too absurdly biased, give me a holler and I'll put it in my queue. Thanks.
I just started reading Gluten Lie yesterday. I'm not overly impressed so far. The introduction goes on an on over MSG and how people who claim to have their health negatively affected by it , aren't. It's all in their heads. Apparently it was all in their heads before the individuals figured out what caused their symptoms, and it is all in their heads now that they think it is MSG.
I have a friend who gets migraines from MSG. I believe him. He is affected by many foods. He doesn't just get migraines when he eats out at a Chinese place. It's not in his head just because MSG doesn't bother all or even most.
It got my back up because I'm a celiac, and every single celiac I have ever talked with has been told that it is all in their head, or it is just natural for them to have those symptoms. "It's all in your head" in my experience, is docotese for "I can't figure out what is wrong so there must be nothing wrong." I suppose that is true once in a while, but in a majority of cases, I doubt it.
I'll keep reading but Gluten Lie doesn't look promising.
I have a dear friend who gets wicked headaches from MSG. Like celiacs talk about being "glutened", she talked about being "MSGed". She's diligent as heck, but it sometimes still happens.
If you manage to finish the book, please check back and let me know?0 -
Levinovitz did a piece at Slate on the MSG thing: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/07/msg_and_gluten_intolerance_is_the_nocebo_effect_to_blame.html0
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I was turned off of The Big Fat Surprise in part because the interesting bit (about Keys) seemed like a less nuanced version of Denise Minger's Death by Food Pyramid (which I did like), and because of these pieces:
https://thescienceofnutrition.wordpress.com/2014/06/30/the-big-fat-surprise-a-critical-review-part-2/ (there's also a part 1)
and http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-katz-md/diet-and-nutrition_b_5266165.html (yes, I know, more David Katz).
However, if there's something particularly interesting about it that transcends all this, I would be interested, so please report back. Food and nutrition writing of a wide variety of types (whether I agree or not) is a bit of a weakness of mine, replacing my old fondness for rereading mystery novels and Georgette Heyer (although not yet taking the place of actual literature).0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Levinovitz did a piece at Slate on the MSG thing: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/07/msg_and_gluten_intolerance_is_the_nocebo_effect_to_blame.html
Wow. Now I dislike this guy. HE decides what others eat? DISLIKE the arrogance.0 -
I'll report back for sure.lemurcat12 wrote: »I was turned off of The Big Fat Surprise in part because the interesting bit (about Keys) seemed like a less nuanced version of Denise Minger's Death by Food Pyramid (which I did like), and because of these pieces:
https://thescienceofnutrition.wordpress.com/2014/06/30/the-big-fat-surprise-a-critical-review-part-2/ (there's also a part 1)
and http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-katz-md/diet-and-nutrition_b_5266165.html (yes, I know, more David Katz).
However, if there's something particularly interesting about it that transcends all this, I would be interested, so please report back. Food and nutrition writing of a wide variety of types (whether I agree or not) is a bit of a weakness of mine, replacing my old fondness for rereading mystery novels and Georgette Heyer (although not yet taking the place of actual literature).
Death by Food Pyramid is on my list as well.
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Levinovitz did a piece at Slate on the MSG thing: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/07/msg_and_gluten_intolerance_is_the_nocebo_effect_to_blame.html
Wow. Now I dislike this guy. HE decides what others eat? DISLIKE the arrogance.
I have a problem with gluten. Been tested for celiacs (blood test - neg) but due to continued problems they've decided to do the bowel biopsy. The nocebo effect annoys me (due to my own personal experience). The title of the book and lemur's link ticked my off too quite frankly because I've seen the argument before but I'm still going to read the book. I'm not invested in the gluten lie. It's just that the book stood out amongst generic diet books at a chain store and had me intrigued.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Levinovitz did a piece at Slate on the MSG thing: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/07/msg_and_gluten_intolerance_is_the_nocebo_effect_to_blame.html
Wow. Now I dislike this guy. HE decides what others eat? DISLIKE the arrogance.
He's a rotten human being, and besides that, he fails to prove his point by tricking people into eating MSG-laced food and then claiming they didn't complain.
It's true the placebo effect is real. But so is the reverse. Mind over matter. If someone doesn't think something is the matter they are quite likely to ignore all but the most obvious and severe signs that something is wrong, perhaps even at a purely subconscious level, dampening down their body's distress.
We're a hardy species that ate carrion and any plant that didn't outright kill us. Why would we have the ability to trick ourselves into believing something harmed us that didn't without also having the (likely even greater ability) to convince ourselves that rotten meat that kept us alive when we had to have calories went down smooth as butter?0 -
Imagining symptoms is an idea I struggle with too for a lot of different reasons. I think it's possible but I'd never test it so recklessly on others.0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Levinovitz did a piece at Slate on the MSG thing: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/07/msg_and_gluten_intolerance_is_the_nocebo_effect_to_blame.html
So far, that article in the link is the jist of the first two chapters. He's a bit of an egocentric idiot. I doubt I'll make it through the book.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Levinovitz did a piece at Slate on the MSG thing: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/07/msg_and_gluten_intolerance_is_the_nocebo_effect_to_blame.html
So far, that article in the link is the jist of the first two chapters. He's a bit of an egocentric idiot. I doubt I'll make it through the book.
Oh dear.
I think I'll get the library to buy it lol.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Levinovitz did a piece at Slate on the MSG thing: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/07/msg_and_gluten_intolerance_is_the_nocebo_effect_to_blame.html
So far, that article in the link is the jist of the first two chapters. He's a bit of an egocentric idiot. I doubt I'll make it through the book.
Oh dear.
I think I'll get the library to buy it lol.
LOL That's where I got mine. I only buy nutrition books AFTER I read them. Most of them are not that helpful.0 -
I have a friend who gets migraines from MSG. I believe him. He is affected by many foods. He doesn't just get migraines when he eats out at a Chinese place. It's not in his head just because MSG doesn't bother all or even most.
Non sequitur. In fact, that's exactly why the MSG is probably not causing it - if he gets migraines from lots of thing it's probably those things instead of the MSG.
Not that either of us have any evidence, but this is a really bad reason to believe in the MSG lie.0 -
I have a friend who gets migraines from MSG. I believe him. He is affected by many foods. He doesn't just get migraines when he eats out at a Chinese place. It's not in his head just because MSG doesn't bother all or even most.
Non sequitur. In fact, that's exactly why the MSG is probably not causing it - if he gets migraines from lots of thing it's probably those things instead of the MSG.
Not that either of us have any evidence, but this is a really bad reason to believe in the MSG lie.
I took nv to mean not just Chinese food with msg but other foods with it added as well.
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Levinovitz did a piece at Slate on the MSG thing: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/07/msg_and_gluten_intolerance_is_the_nocebo_effect_to_blame.html
Wow. Now I dislike this guy. HE decides what others eat? DISLIKE the arrogance.
definitely unethical. And anyway, a person who tricks unaware people is not trustworthy, by definition0 -
How is it unethical when no harm would come of it?
I like him. Great article!0
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