I'm a geek: I read 2 atkins books this week.

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  • Qskim
    Qskim Posts: 1,145 Member
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    Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    Levinovitz did a piece at Slate on the MSG thing: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/07/msg_and_gluten_intolerance_is_the_nocebo_effect_to_blame.html

    Wow. Now I dislike this guy. HE decides what others eat? DISLIKE the arrogance.

    I have a problem with gluten. Been tested for celiacs (blood test - neg) but due to continued problems they've decided to do the bowel biopsy. The nocebo effect annoys me (due to my own personal experience). The title of the book and lemur's link ticked my off too quite frankly because I've seen the argument before but I'm still going to read the book. I'm not invested in the gluten lie. It's just that the book stood out amongst generic diet books at a chain store and had me intrigued.
  • Azuriaz
    Azuriaz Posts: 785 Member
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    Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    Levinovitz did a piece at Slate on the MSG thing: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/07/msg_and_gluten_intolerance_is_the_nocebo_effect_to_blame.html

    Wow. Now I dislike this guy. HE decides what others eat? DISLIKE the arrogance.

    He's a rotten human being, and besides that, he fails to prove his point by tricking people into eating MSG-laced food and then claiming they didn't complain.

    It's true the placebo effect is real. But so is the reverse. Mind over matter. If someone doesn't think something is the matter they are quite likely to ignore all but the most obvious and severe signs that something is wrong, perhaps even at a purely subconscious level, dampening down their body's distress.

    We're a hardy species that ate carrion and any plant that didn't outright kill us. Why would we have the ability to trick ourselves into believing something harmed us that didn't without also having the (likely even greater ability) to convince ourselves that rotten meat that kept us alive when we had to have calories went down smooth as butter?
  • Qskim
    Qskim Posts: 1,145 Member
    edited October 2015
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    Imagining symptoms is an idea I struggle with too for a lot of different reasons. I think it's possible but I'd never test it so recklessly on others.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
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    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    Levinovitz did a piece at Slate on the MSG thing: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/07/msg_and_gluten_intolerance_is_the_nocebo_effect_to_blame.html

    So far, that article in the link is the jist of the first two chapters. He's a bit of an egocentric idiot. I doubt I'll make it through the book.
  • Qskim
    Qskim Posts: 1,145 Member
    edited October 2015
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    nvmomketo wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    Levinovitz did a piece at Slate on the MSG thing: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/07/msg_and_gluten_intolerance_is_the_nocebo_effect_to_blame.html

    So far, that article in the link is the jist of the first two chapters. He's a bit of an egocentric idiot. I doubt I'll make it through the book.

    Oh dear.
    I think I'll get the library to buy it lol.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
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    mrsbaldee wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    Levinovitz did a piece at Slate on the MSG thing: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/07/msg_and_gluten_intolerance_is_the_nocebo_effect_to_blame.html

    So far, that article in the link is the jist of the first two chapters. He's a bit of an egocentric idiot. I doubt I'll make it through the book.

    Oh dear.
    I think I'll get the library to buy it lol.

    LOL That's where I got mine. I only buy nutrition books AFTER I read them. Most of them are not that helpful.
  • Orphia
    Orphia Posts: 7,097 Member
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    nvmomketo wrote: »
    I have a friend who gets migraines from MSG. I believe him. He is affected by many foods. He doesn't just get migraines when he eats out at a Chinese place. It's not in his head just because MSG doesn't bother all or even most.

    Non sequitur. In fact, that's exactly why the MSG is probably not causing it - if he gets migraines from lots of thing it's probably those things instead of the MSG.

    Not that either of us have any evidence, but this is a really bad reason to believe in the MSG lie.
  • Qskim
    Qskim Posts: 1,145 Member
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    Orphia wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    I have a friend who gets migraines from MSG. I believe him. He is affected by many foods. He doesn't just get migraines when he eats out at a Chinese place. It's not in his head just because MSG doesn't bother all or even most.

    Non sequitur. In fact, that's exactly why the MSG is probably not causing it - if he gets migraines from lots of thing it's probably those things instead of the MSG.

    Not that either of us have any evidence, but this is a really bad reason to believe in the MSG lie.

    I took nv to mean not just Chinese food with msg but other foods with it added as well.
  • Gianfranco_R
    Gianfranco_R Posts: 1,297 Member
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    Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    Levinovitz did a piece at Slate on the MSG thing: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/07/msg_and_gluten_intolerance_is_the_nocebo_effect_to_blame.html

    Wow. Now I dislike this guy. HE decides what others eat? DISLIKE the arrogance.

    definitely unethical. And anyway, a person who tricks unaware people is not trustworthy, by definition
  • Orphia
    Orphia Posts: 7,097 Member
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    How is it unethical when no harm would come of it?

    I like him. Great article!
  • Gianfranco_R
    Gianfranco_R Posts: 1,297 Member
    edited October 2015
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    Orphia wrote: »
    How is it unethical when no harm would come of it?

    I like him. Great article!

    Aside from the fact that only after the "experiment" you can tell if the person has been harmed or not, Kant would tell you that is immoral to use other people as a means.
  • Sabine_Stroehm
    Sabine_Stroehm Posts: 19,263 Member
    edited October 2015
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    Gianfranco_R wrote: »
    Orphia wrote: »
    How is it unethical when no harm would come of it?

    I like him. Great article!

    Aside from the fact that only after the "experiment" you can tell if the person has been harmed or not, Kant would tell you that is immoral to use other people as a means.

    If I was with this egomaniac (I'm referring to the author) and he got me a caffeinated beverage when I asked for decaf, or a sugar-full green tea latte when I asked for sugar-free, because HE thought my reasons for ordering as I did were invalid, I'd be tempted to kick him in his undersized misters.

    Now, back to MSG. How, exactly does the good Dr.Ph.D. know if his colleagues (for whom he was interpreting!!!!!!!) suffered no ill effects. Was he with them 24/7?

    I can tell you from experience that when I travel abroad with colleagues, I don't share my every ache and pain with them.
    That post suggest a disrespectful, arrogant twerp.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
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    Orphia wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    I have a friend who gets migraines from MSG. I believe him. He is affected by many foods. He doesn't just get migraines when he eats out at a Chinese place. It's not in his head just because MSG doesn't bother all or even most.

    Non sequitur. In fact, that's exactly why the MSG is probably not causing it - if he gets migraines from lots of thing it's probably those things instead of the MSG.

    Not that either of us have any evidence, but this is a really bad reason to believe in the MSG lie.

    It took him years to figure out what was wrong. Trial and error to find his triggers. Kind of like how it took me 38 years to discover that I had celiac disease. Who would have thought that the innocent PBJ sandwich would cause arthritis, hair loss, fatigue, migraines and stomach aches for days?

    It is pretty egocentric of you to assume you know what affects his health. There are a few common additives that get him. He rarely eats out now, and cannot even eat at most people's homes. If he avoids them he is fine. I doubt he cured himself with the power of his mind.

    I was told it was all in my head too, starting from childhood. Just because the doctor didn't figure it out doesn't mean it isn't real.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
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    I'm not finishing the Gluten Lie. I am learning nothing, and he is just annoying me with his theories. He should have stuck with religion.

    I wouldn't buy that book. I regret getting it from the library. LOL

    JMO
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
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    IdoScience wrote: »
    This one was a good read:
    http://www.amazon.com/The-Low-Carb-Myth-Determine/dp/1942761325/ref=br_lf_m_497vzbcvrpng9yy_1_1_img/181-2648524-1335660?ie=UTF8&s=books

    If you want to get really deep this post by researcher Denise Minger is great
    http://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/

    I will look into the Low Carb Myth. I am eating LCHF to improve my health, and it has worked. The book looks like it focuses on fat loss with a higher carb diet only, and not the improvements to autoimmune diseases or arthritis - inflammation - on a LCHF diet.... Doesn't look promising to someone coming from my direction. More of a "rah-rah moderation" book.
  • Sabine_Stroehm
    Sabine_Stroehm Posts: 19,263 Member
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    IdoScience wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    IdoScience wrote: »
    This one was a good read:
    http://www.amazon.com/The-Low-Carb-Myth-Determine/dp/1942761325/ref=br_lf_m_497vzbcvrpng9yy_1_1_img/181-2648524-1335660?ie=UTF8&s=books

    If you want to get really deep this post by researcher Denise Minger is great
    http://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/

    I will look into the Low Carb Myth. I am eating LCHF to improve my health, and it has worked. The book looks like it focuses on fat loss with a higher carb diet only, and not the improvements to autoimmune diseases or arthritis - inflammation - on a LCHF diet.... Doesn't look promising to someone coming from my direction. More of a "rah-rah moderation" book.

    Not really about "moderation". The author is definitely against highly processed foods. But he does dive into a lot of the dogma with low carb diets, it doesn't quite go far enough into the metabolic and hormonal disruptions around long term low carb diets.

    What metabolic and hormonal disruptions?
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    IdoScience wrote: »
    If you want to get really deep this post by researcher Denise Minger is great
    http://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/

    I read this a couple of days ago and found it quite interesting, agreed.

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