Supplements send 23,000 American's to the Emergency Room
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@stevencloser, the trick with the American 1994 sidestep is that these supplements can go unregulated as long as they make no special claims.
@brower47 there are many more levels of regulation besides prescription. The manufacturer might be constrained on how they label their product, list the percentage active ingredient, and be fined if they lie.
Canada has gone the way of licensing "Natural Health Products"
But isn't saying some ingredient is in there when it's not a special claim?0 -
questionfear wrote: »I would be curious, can someone with a better grasp of the science and statistics extrapolate from ER visits how many people had adverse reactions that weren't recorded because they weren't ER visits, but visits to a primary care doc?
(I know from people trying to extrapolate sports injuries that it gets confusing because some injuries go unreported if the individual goes to a private doctor and not an ER. For example, I tore my ACL at rugby practice several years ago, but I went to an orthopedist right away, so that doesn't get documented as a sports injury. But someone who tears their ACL playing pick-up basketball and goes to the ER on a Sunday afternoon does get marked as a sports injury.)
I actually wondered the same thing and tried to find information based on that, but couldn't. It wouldn't surprise me though if there are more cases of adverse reactions but people chose to see their primary care instead. But I have no stats to prove it.0 -
"Weight-loss or energy products caused more than half these visits, commonly for cardiac symptoms," they added. These included rapid heartbeat, chest pain and heart palpitations.0
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Some of these herbs can interact with prescription drugs in a bad way. Such as blocking the prescription from working. St Johns Wort block some meds used to treat seizures. I know this is true for it happened to me.0
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Hey, we still have rampant herbals on our shelves here in Canada, too.
http://www.bna.com/lakota-herbal-supplements-n17179881209/
@stevencloser that link to the FDA 1994 sidestep lists the requirements. I don't know if there is a fine or other penalty if testing shows there is sawdust instead of a claimed active ingredient. I know the FDA is not testing these remedies.0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »
What about a campaign to make sure that people are aware of the risks here on the boards? It might look something like this thread.
The type of person who takes raspberry ketones and other ridiculous junk they see on TV in an effort to lose weight isn't going to be reachable by any sort of FDA campaign. There's already more than enough information out there for people to educate themselves. The problem is that few do.
Even here on these boards you constantly see people falling for ridiculous pseudoscience. People in general just aren't very sophisticated, so they wind up in the hospital for dumb things. Any real educational initiative would have to start in kindergarten (which won't happen, because supplements are Big Business).
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diannethegeek wrote: »Considering how many people take supplements, that's a relatively low number. Half the U.S. population takes supplements, so 23,000 out of 250,000,000 isn't all that much.
it may be a "low" number to some, but I see it as a number that can lowered if people chose only to supplement when they actually needed to.
Okay, what's your proposed solution?
Only take supplements when someone is actually deficient in something ( I mentioned this in the OP), education for people looking for quick fixes, and possible get some sort of regulatory body involved to ensure that that is listed as ingredients is actually in the supplement.The authorities said they had conducted tests on top-selling store brands of herbal supplements at four national retailers — GNC, Target, Walgreens and Walmart — and found that four out of five of the products did not contain any of the herbs on their labels. The tests showed that pills labeled medicinal herbs often contained little more than cheap fillers like powdered rice, asparagus and houseplants, and in some cases substances that could be dangerous to those with allergies.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/03/new-york-attorney-general-targets-supplements-at-major-retailers/
So you only want people to be able to take Vit C ( and others) with a prescription?
Did I say with a prescription? But its a waste of money to take Vitamin C if you already getting enough from your diet. You will be flushing your money down the toilet, literally considering it is a water soluble vitamin. If that's what you want to do, I'm not going to stop you.
How do you propose to go about educating people?
BTW, I'm all for the FDA being involved in supplements and ensuring that they are what is claimed to be within them.
What about a campaign to make sure that people are aware of the risks here on the boards? It might look something like this thread.
Agreed. And also can go hand in hand with using a regulatory body ensuring the safety of medications.
So you're talking about a grass roots awareness campaign? How many of the 2.5 million users do you think this will reach?
Who knows. But people are starting to pay attention now that new research has started to come out and that's a good sign.
You can't expect to have an effective awareness campaign if you can even begin to guess as to how many people you're going to reach. Might as well just say, I wish people were more educated about supplements because that's all you're doing. Unless you plan to petition this site and many of the other fitness sites into making this issue stand out more. Do you plan to do that?0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »Considering how many people take supplements, that's a relatively low number. Half the U.S. population takes supplements, so 23,000 out of 250,000,000 isn't all that much.
it may be a "low" number to some, but I see it as a number that can lowered if people chose only to supplement when they actually needed to.
Okay, what's your proposed solution?
Only take supplements when someone is actually deficient in something ( I mentioned this in the OP), education for people looking for quick fixes, and possible get some sort of regulatory body involved to ensure that that is listed as ingredients is actually in the supplement.The authorities said they had conducted tests on top-selling store brands of herbal supplements at four national retailers — GNC, Target, Walgreens and Walmart — and found that four out of five of the products did not contain any of the herbs on their labels. The tests showed that pills labeled medicinal herbs often contained little more than cheap fillers like powdered rice, asparagus and houseplants, and in some cases substances that could be dangerous to those with allergies.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/03/new-york-attorney-general-targets-supplements-at-major-retailers/
So you only want people to be able to take Vit C ( and others) with a prescription?
Did I say with a prescription? But its a waste of money to take Vitamin C if you already getting enough from your diet. You will be flushing your money down the toilet, literally considering it is a water soluble vitamin. If that's what you want to do, I'm not going to stop you.
How do you propose to go about educating people?
BTW, I'm all for the FDA being involved in supplements and ensuring that they are what is claimed to be within them.
What about a campaign to make sure that people are aware of the risks here on the boards? It might look something like this thread.
Agreed. And also can go hand in hand with using a regulatory body ensuring the safety of medications.
So you're talking about a grass roots awareness campaign? How many of the 2.5 million users do you think this will reach?
Who knows. But people are starting to pay attention now that new research has started to come out and that's a good sign.
You can't expect to have an effective awareness campaign if you can even begin to guess as to how many people you're going to reach. Might as well just say, I wish people were more educated about supplements because that's all you're doing. Unless you plan to petition this site and many of the other fitness sites into making this issue stand out more. Do you plan to do that?
I didn't realize I was kick starting an awareness campaign? Last I checked all I was doing was providing interesting information and studies to people on a calorie counting website. I wish people would be more educated about supplements and wish there was more regulations involved. I'm pretty sure that's all I've said, not that I'm kick starting this amazing campaign you're talking about.0 -
What is happening in this thread? OP posted an interesting article about supplements without giving any demands or suggestions. It's an interesting article. Some of us like to see information being provided around here.
It just feels like a lot is being read into this thread that's not there. It's also mostly impossible to convince Americans to lose weight, and yet here we are on a whole site/app/message board for it. Maybe we should all go home.0 -
Look at how many die each year from taking prescribed Rx meds if you want to check out one's risk of actually dying from taking stuff that is dangerous to health.0
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GaleHawkins wrote: »Look at how many die each year from taking prescribed Rx meds if you want to check out one's risk of actually dying from taking stuff that is dangerous to health.
This thread is not about prescription medications. That is a topic for another thread.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Considering how many people take supplements, that's a relatively low number. Half the U.S. population takes supplements, so 23,000 out of 250,000,000 isn't all that much.
it may be a "low" number to some, but I see it as a number that can lowered if people chose only to supplement when they actually needed to.
Okay, what's your proposed solution?
Only take supplements when someone is actually deficient in something ( I mentioned this in the OP), education for people looking for quick fixes, and possible get some sort of regulatory body involved to ensure that that is listed as ingredients is actually in the supplement.The authorities said they had conducted tests on top-selling store brands of herbal supplements at four national retailers — GNC, Target, Walgreens and Walmart — and found that four out of five of the products did not contain any of the herbs on their labels. The tests showed that pills labeled medicinal herbs often contained little more than cheap fillers like powdered rice, asparagus and houseplants, and in some cases substances that could be dangerous to those with allergies.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/03/new-york-attorney-general-targets-supplements-at-major-retailers/
I take supplements so I WON'T be deficient. Waiting until I have a deficiency of B12 (something I supplement) would be way too late -- the effects of B12 deficiency can be permanent and serious.
If thats your plan then fine, but lets say hypothetically, someone is taking Vit D which is a fat soluble vitamin, and they are overdosing themselves because they don't need to take it. They can cause a buildup of calcium in your blood (hypercalcemia), which can cause poor appetite, nausea and vomiting. Weakness, frequent urination and kidney problems also may occur.
Now we have a situation where someone can cause kidney problems due to supplementing when they didn't have to.
I agree that people should only take supplements that they are likely to NEED. I just disagree that supplements are only for those with deficiencies -- many of us take them so we don't get deficient.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Considering how many people take supplements, that's a relatively low number. Half the U.S. population takes supplements, so 23,000 out of 250,000,000 isn't all that much.
it may be a "low" number to some, but I see it as a number that can lowered if people chose only to supplement when they actually needed to.
Okay, what's your proposed solution?
Only take supplements when someone is actually deficient in something ( I mentioned this in the OP), education for people looking for quick fixes, and possible get some sort of regulatory body involved to ensure that that is listed as ingredients is actually in the supplement.The authorities said they had conducted tests on top-selling store brands of herbal supplements at four national retailers — GNC, Target, Walgreens and Walmart — and found that four out of five of the products did not contain any of the herbs on their labels. The tests showed that pills labeled medicinal herbs often contained little more than cheap fillers like powdered rice, asparagus and houseplants, and in some cases substances that could be dangerous to those with allergies.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/03/new-york-attorney-general-targets-supplements-at-major-retailers/
I take supplements so I WON'T be deficient. Waiting until I have a deficiency of B12 (something I supplement) would be way too late -- the effects of B12 deficiency can be permanent and serious.
If thats your plan then fine, but lets say hypothetically, someone is taking Vit D which is a fat soluble vitamin, and they are overdosing themselves because they don't need to take it. They can cause a buildup of calcium in your blood (hypercalcemia), which can cause poor appetite, nausea and vomiting. Weakness, frequent urination and kidney problems also may occur.
Now we have a situation where someone can cause kidney problems due to supplementing when they didn't have to.
I agree that people should only take supplements that they are likely to NEED. I just disagree that supplements are only for those with deficiencies -- many of us take them so we don't get deficient.
I can understand where you are coming from.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Look at how many die each year from taking prescribed Rx meds if you want to check out one's risk of actually dying from taking stuff that is dangerous to health.
...you mean like the number of cancer patients who die while taking chemo drugs? Correlation, causation, and all that.
How about the number of cancer patients who die while undertaking a wholistic regimen (Steve Jobs)?
How about prescription insulin? Antibiotics? Beta blockers?0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »What is happening in this thread? OP posted an interesting article about supplements without giving any demands or suggestions. It's an interesting article. Some of us like to see information being provided around here.
It just feels like a lot is being read into this thread that's not there. It's also mostly impossible to convince Americans to lose weight, and yet here we are on a whole site/app/message board for it. Maybe we should all go home.
Just asking questions. Motivation, intent and how worthwhile something is seems important. Should people not ask questions?0 -
1/2 are adults age 20 to 34 and unsupervised children. How does the unsupervised child find the ER?0
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_Terrapin_ wrote: »1/2 are adults age 20 to 34 and unsupervised children. How does the unsupervised child find the ER?
I think it would depend on the age we are defining child as. Someone who is 14-18 I'm sure could find their way to the emergency room or urgent care.
As for the younger children ( I'm just speculating here) were maybe unsupervised when the room what ever supplement it was and then the parents had to take them to the ER.0 -
Hey, we still have rampant herbals on our shelves here in Canada, too.
http://www.bna.com/lakota-herbal-supplements-n17179881209/
@stevencloser that link to the FDA 1994 sidestep lists the requirements. I don't know if there is a fine or other penalty if testing shows there is sawdust instead of a claimed active ingredient. I know the FDA is not testing these remedies.
The FDA doesn't bother listing those sorts of violations in their regulations because they are already covered under other legal code prohibiting false advertising.
ETA: That said, someone has to bring a case against the offender, or this never gets prosecuted.
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Considering how many people take supplements, that's a relatively low number. Half the U.S. population takes supplements, so 23,000 out of 250,000,000 isn't all that much.
it may be a "low" number to some, but I see it as a number that can lowered if people chose only to supplement when they actually needed to.
Okay, what's your proposed solution?
Only take supplements when someone is actually deficient in something ( I mentioned this in the OP), education for people looking for quick fixes, and possible get some sort of regulatory body involved to ensure that that is listed as ingredients is actually in the supplement.The authorities said they had conducted tests on top-selling store brands of herbal supplements at four national retailers — GNC, Target, Walgreens and Walmart — and found that four out of five of the products did not contain any of the herbs on their labels. The tests showed that pills labeled medicinal herbs often contained little more than cheap fillers like powdered rice, asparagus and houseplants, and in some cases substances that could be dangerous to those with allergies.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/03/new-york-attorney-general-targets-supplements-at-major-retailers/
The supplements I take are ones you don't become deficient in. They provide an action I feel my body needs.
As an example, I take Turmeric and black pepper extracts for anti inflammatory benefits.
As for the missing ingredients that is illegal surely? And they should be very heavily fined.
You can't keep legislating for peoples ignorance I guess is what I am trying to say. If they choose to take/eat/drink anything without knowing what is in it or what it can do to them then I doubt legislation would stop them.
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_Terrapin_ wrote: »1/2 are adults age 20 to 34 and unsupervised children. How does the unsupervised child find the ER?
I would think once the adult begins supervising again and notices the child having adverse reactions, he or she would get the child to the ER pretty quickly.0 -
Unless one ends up being one of those 23,000.Considering how many people take supplements, that's a relatively low number. Half the U.S. population takes supplements, so 23,000 out of 250,000,000 isn't all that much.
Reality is most people don't care about any risk unless it happens to them on a personal level. They then become ambassadors for awareness.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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If some don't know it, supplements because of lax regulation by the DSHEA commonly have contaminants in them. Since they are mostly manufactured by 3rd parties and many of the raw materials come from countries that don't regulate purity, finding trace ingredients not on the label of a product are common.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 0 -
...1/2 are adults age 20 to 34......"Weight-loss or energy products caused more than half these visits, commonly for cardiac symptoms," they added. These included rapid heartbeat, chest pain and heart palpitations...
Based upon those two quotes from the study, it's not too hard to do the math. The majority of these cases are from stimulants (energy drinks, pre-workout concoctions, "fat burner" supplements, etc.). They're basically legalized speed. Couple the stimulant ingredients with the manic "more must be better!" attitude many have toward weight loss and it's not hard to imagine that a lot of people significantly exceed a safe intake level in hopes of "seeing those pounds melt away!!!1!!".
The reality is that people aren't overdosing and going to the ER from taking multivitamins and protein shakes. They're OD'ing because they're basically tweakers, whether they realize it or not.0 -
If some don't know it, supplements because of lax regulation by the DSHEA commonly have contaminants in them. Since they are mostly manufactured by 3rd parties and many of the raw materials come from countries that don't regulate purity, finding trace ingredients not on the label of a product are common.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I agree. I think that is a big problem in the supplement industry.0 -
A lady that I used to work for fell for every type of " magic pill" that came out.
She was so desperate to lose weight, but yet wouldn't listen to the truth ( she was consuming too many calories )
She got involved with a popular mlm company I warned her that this may not be a good idea. She insisted that her "coach" knew everything about weight loss and health supplements .
So I left the topic alone. She started using all of their shakes, pills, powders and creams. She ate more pills and powders per day then anyone I ever knew. She said her coach told her to order the entire set and take each daily.
She ended up in the emergency room after 14 weeks of doing this. She had heart troubles and toxic levels of these drugs in her system.
She spent 8 weeks in the hospital. While there , the doctors told her exactly what @ninerbuff mentioned above. They said these pills and shakes and powders aren't regulated and often contain other fillers that can be potentially harmful .
IMO, its not worth the risk at all.
And the 11lbs she lost while on the pills, she gained it right back while in the hospital. So it was all a waste anyway.0 -
thorsmom01 wrote: »A lady that I used to work for fell for every type of " magic pill" that came out.
She was so desperate to lose weight, but yet wouldn't listen to the truth ( she was consuming too many calories )
She got involved with a popular mlm company I warned her that this may not be a good idea. She insisted that her "coach" knew everything about weight loss and health supplements .
So I left the topic alone. She started using all of their shakes, pills, powders and creams. She ate more pills and powders per day then anyone I ever knew. She said her coach told her to order the entire set and take each daily.
She ended up in the emergency room after 14 weeks of doing this. She had heart troubles and toxic levels of these drugs in her system.
She spent 8 weeks in the hospital. While there , the doctors told her exactly what @ninerbuff mentioned above. They said these pills and shakes and powders aren't regulated and often contain other fillers that can be potentially harmful .
IMO, its not worth the risk at all.
And the 11lbs she lost while on the pills, she gained it right back while in the hospital. So it was all a waste anyway.
Has your friend fully recovered?0 -
@stevencloser, the trick with the American 1994 sidestep is that these supplements can go unregulated as long as they make no special claims.
@brower47 there are many more levels of regulation besides prescription. The manufacturer might be constrained on how they label their product, list the percentage active ingredient, and be fined if they lie.
Canada has gone the way of licensing "Natural Health Products"
I believe most European countries require a prescription for supplements also.
Nope. There are very few supplements that require a prescription here.
The issues you raise are real (but minor compared to drug drug and drug disease interactions).
Prescription control is the wrong answer for these products because their utility outweighs the cost/need of having a consultation as the watch dog for them. Clearly physician prescriptions have not eliminated drug drug issues. Improved education and personal responsibility are really, IMHO, the useful limits - you won't reduce the risk to zero - whether it is tobacco, alcohol or supplements people will use and misuse.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »@stevencloser, the trick with the American 1994 sidestep is that these supplements can go unregulated as long as they make no special claims.
@brower47 there are many more levels of regulation besides prescription. The manufacturer might be constrained on how they label their product, list the percentage active ingredient, and be fined if they lie.
Canada has gone the way of licensing "Natural Health Products"
I believe most European countries require a prescription for supplements also.
Nope. There are very few supplements that require a prescription here.
The issues you raise are real (but minor compared to drug drug and drug disease interactions).
Prescription control is the wrong answer for these products because their utility outweighs the cost/need of having a consultation as the watch dog for them. Clearly physician prescriptions have not eliminated drug drug issues. Improved education and personal responsibility are really, IMHO, the useful limits - you won't reduce the risk to zero - whether it is tobacco, alcohol or supplements people will use and misuse.
I am not asking for prescription requirements for supplements. I was jus trying to add on to what another poster had said.
What I am saying is that I believe there needs some better regulations over the companies that do make the supplements so what a consumer is getting what they actually are paying for and better education for people so they don't take things that they don't necessarily need which could prevent harm.0
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