Supplements send 23,000 American's to the Emergency Room

jgnatca

How about the Lamar Odom story, where it is reported he took [cocaine and] ten doses of a herbal Viagra analogue?

ninerbuff

Derf_Smeggle wrote: »

ninerbuff wrote: »

Derf_Smeggle wrote: »

ninerbuff wrote: »

If you believe that that sort of "testing" is legitimate enough to pass a supplement off without it's actual product being tested off the line (for fear of possible contamination and recall), then our definitions of "testing" are much different. I see it as SOP (standard operating procedure) and not "testing". We'll hear almost daily about a recall on food or drinks and even vehicles, but not so much on supplements. Again sad because millions of people take them without knowing if they are truly safe or uncontaminated.

Three points.

First point - Please post an example of a cGMP product with a recall due to specifically an issue of contamination. I do agree with you that things get recalled all the time, but cGMP guidelines and the implicit testing within those guidelines are there to insure the risk of contamination is reduced to as near to eliminated as possible.

About a quarter (24%) of the recalled supplements were manufactured outside the U.S., a concern given that manufacturing practices in foreign countries may not be held to the same standard, the researchers wrote. They noted, however, that the FDA has found CGMP violations in at least half of the domestic dietary supplement firms it has inspected.

http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHealthPolicy/PublicHealth/38451

This is a great article on the overall issue. One of the major issues is that cGMP is not mandatory and given more oversight to insure all supplements are meeting those guidelines.

I'm going to address two points you quoted above. First, you can find manufacturers from overseas that adhere to United States FDA cGMP guidelines. For example, reputable Chinese herbal formula manufacturers in particular adhere to cGMP because of the many issues with adulterated products from less reputable manufacturers in China.

the FDA has found CGMP violations in at least half of the domestic dietary supplement firms it has inspected. Second, what do they mean by cGMP violations? It is never explained. Violations is vague and does not explicitly state that the violations were for contamination/adulteration. Violations might mean anything from someone wasn't wearing a hair net in required area, to a label deemed illegible, to adulteration/contamination. Voilation does not equal proof of contamination. It indicates a code violation.

Again, demonstrate a cGMP product specifically recalled for contamination.

Consumer Labs has a list. Unfortunately you have to pay for it. $64 for access I believe. I'm not going to pay that to prove it to you.
I'll leave it at whether you believe me or not, I'm sticking with what I've opined and have given sufficient evidence to back it. Again, you'd have to believe that if their isn't any issues with manufacturers on testing, there shouldn't be any compromise on methods of testing especially when it comes to the manufacturers getting to choose suitable ones. Testing should be consistent from manufacturer to manufacturer.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff

Derf_Smeggle wrote: »

Again, demonstrate a cGMP product specifically recalled for contamination.

Looks like I found one:

“Herberex is made with 100% all-natural, organic, high quality ingredients. To ensure the safety and quality of our product we manufacture in a cGMP certified facility… Every ingredient is analytically tested for chemicals, heavy metals, pesticides and common male enhancement steroids and every batch holds a certificate of analysis with these results. Herberex is pre-registered with FDA, Canada Health Board and European Health Board for importation. While Herberex only contains all natural ingredients, it is always suggested to you consult a licensed physician before use to ensure that you aren’t allergic to any of the natural ingredients.”

Last week Health Canada tested Herberex and found an undeclared drug, tadalafil – the active ingredient in Cialis. The manufacturer, Empire Health Distribution is recalling the drug from all Canadian stores but there is not much information on whether this is happening in the United States as well.

http://www.michiehamlett.com/sexual-enhancement-supplement-herberex-recalled-safety-concerns/

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

jgnatca

Here's a typical Canadian recall.

http://healthycanadians.gc.ca/recall-alert-rappel-avis/hc-sc/2015/55252a-eng.php

Strawblackcat

jgnatca wrote: »

With supplements, as with most other things in life, you get what you pay for.

I am sure this is what the MLM marketing schemes are counting on. I remember my mother-in-law bought in to one of these vitamin regimens which amounted to several horse pills at each meal. The pills were all lovely shades of natural sawdust. She was told that the body can't absorb all the vitamins we take with a single pill.

One wonders if a good salad would have done as much?

Probably so. Lots of people don't eat as well as they should, though, so vitamins and supplements can help "plug the leaks", so to speak. I always tell people, "They're not miracle workers. They're not going to magically fix a diet of Oreos and Twinkies and somehow make it healthy, but they're a good way to round out an already fairly balanced diet."

I don't have anything against multis. I take one, and it's something that I recommend everyone take. The point that I was trying to make was that most higher-priced vitamins contain higher amounts of vitamins and/or more absorbable forms of the vitamins that they proclaim on their label. Pills of single nutrients are usually really concentrated, and the only people that really need them are those with diagnosed deficiencies -- like people with iron-deficiency anemia.

jgnatca

I do have some known deficiencies, a known side-effect from bariatric surgery. So it's Vitamin D, folic acid, iron, and calcium citrate on top of the multivitamin. I pick vitamins from the discount shelf at my local pharmacy.

I'm going to try a mail-order topical patch that offers the full spectrum of vitamins for post-bariatric patients. I like the idea that it bypasses digestion altogether.

EvgeniZyntx

Derf_Smeggle wrote: »

ninerbuff wrote: »

If you believe that that sort of "testing" is legitimate enough to pass a supplement off without it's actual product being tested off the line (for fear of possible contamination and recall), then our definitions of "testing" are much different. I see it as SOP (standard operating procedure) and not "testing". We'll hear almost daily about a recall on food or drinks and even vehicles, but not so much on supplements. Again sad because millions of people take them without knowing if they are truly safe or uncontaminated.

Three points.

First point - Please post an example of a cGMP product with a recall due to specifically an issue of contamination. I do agree with you that things get recalled all the time, but cGMP guidelines and the implicit testing within those guidelines are there to insure the risk of contamination is reduced to as near to eliminated as possible.

Second - You throw out the words "truly safe". This is completely ambiguous and a red herring. cGMP guidelines are about regulating what manufacturers claim is in their product, and establishes a chain of evidence for the procedures, equipment, and the ingredients that go into those products. These steps severely limit the possibility of contamination, alteration, and, adulteration.

Finally - Your concerned about product being "tested off the line". A batch of product comes off the line. A sample is taken. Said sample is tested and the results are compared against the Master Record to make sure there is no deviation, contamination, or adulteration.

(While I agree with you)

First point - there are a lot of cGMP recalls specifically due to contaminants - I've personally signed off for comm. on three in the last 3 yrs (and no, I won't be mentioning the company here).

Here are a few from the market (all cGMP as pharmaceuticals, devices, vacs):

http://www.aafp.org/news/health-of-the-public/20131221hpvvaccrecall.html
http://www.fda.gov/safety/medwatch/safetyinformation/safetyalertsforhumanmedicalproducts/ucm332830.htm
http://www.fda.gov/safety/recalls/ucm465183.htm
http://www.fda.gov/medicaldevices/safety/listofrecalls/ucm409283.htm

amberlyda1

My boss' liver started to shut down from his high dose supplements. Getting vitamins from our food is VERY different from high MG supplements. I do take vitamins. I know I dont get enough calcium, I always test anemic etc. I take 5 low dose supplements. Some of the water soluble vitamins are less dangerous because you urinate out the extra; fat soluble vitamins can store up in your body to very dangerous levels. The broad mentality that "if a little is good; than a lot is better" can be deadly. You can die from drink copious amounts of water.

Most of our modern day medicine originated from plants/ food. Willow bark used to be used to cure fevers (asprin). The romans used silphium as birth control. The list goes on. So its ridiculous for people or companies to say all supplements are safe, you cant overdose etc. If you can overdose on conventional drugs, than you can OD on supplements.

ninerbuff

bump