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WinoGelato wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »
Possibly. I get people that comment all the time that they can't believe I can eat pizza, fast food, and processed foods and not gain. But, then again they are only hearing about the junk food and not the other 80% of the time of nutritious eating.christinev297 wrote: »I guess it may sometimes be seen as bragging?? "I eat all the junk I can fit into my calories". Obviously not in those exact words, but that is how it sometimes comes across.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I think one of the challenges is you're a active in shape individual that burns a bunch of calories. You or someone like yourself can get proper nutrition (your macros and micros) eating 80% nutritious. For someone on a lower calorie diet, it's going to be much more difficult to get needed nutrition if 20% of say 1500 calories come from candy, cakes, chips, ice cream, etc.
Well I can hit my macro requirements in 1200 calories if I chose to. Leaving the 20% (300 calories) for chips (85 cals), Ice cream (90 cals), cookies (72 cals) because I choose the ones I like (eg Walkers pops / Quavers - Solero / Fab, McVities Rich Tea)
And it's not like the less nutritiously rich foods you mention don't help with hitting macros too
But it's about choice - there's no reason why people can't manage it - even if it's difficult - if they choose to / if it's important to their wellbeing
Take a 1200 calorie diet to a registered dietician where 20% of the calories are from nutritionally less dense food (chips, cookies, candy, cake, etc) and get their thoughts .
Why would their thoughts matter? If you are hitting your macro requirements, it doesn't mater how your intake is made up.
so what is your thought on this statement @psulemon ?
does it fit with your 80/20 rule, or it is just me struggling again with reading comprehension?
I wasn't aware that psulemon was the translator of all posts on MFP and the one who determines if everyone's diet was appropriate for them. Wow that's a lot of responsibility @psulemon! You should ask them to double your mod salary!
Its ok. I am always willing to provide some perspective. And i got time right now while my wife is progressing during her labor.
Wait what? WOW! Congrats!!!0 -
sparky00721 wrote: »jofjltncb6 wrote: »One benefit though...it leads to those humorously ridiculous comparisons of extremes where people argue 1500 calories of broccoli is healthier than 1500 calories of doughnuts. (It isn't.)
I have not read all (or even much) of this thread, but I am genuinely curious about this statement. Putting weight loss aside, is it not absolutely true that 150 calories of broccoli is healthier than 1500 calories of doughnuts?
(Secretly hoping they are exactly the same from a nutrition/health perspective so that I can go back to eating doughnuts.)
They are both very unhealthy. Neither has much protein, the donut is severely lacking in micronutrients, the broccoli has no fats and also limited micronutrients (although more than the donuts). Neither is the well rounded diet that humans need to thrive.
And why is it always broccoli? There are so many other vegetables that could be, and should be brought up, if we're going to compare a vegetable to a food that some people consider nutritionally unsound. Broccoli isn't even all that nutritionally viable. It's fibrous, to be sure, and pretty darn gas-producing. Why don't we discuss the nutritional merits of the sweet potato? Or kale? Or carrots? It amazes me that time and again, when a vegetable and a carb/fat food like donuts or cookies are compared, the veg is always broccoli. For pete's sake.
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WinoGelato wrote: »sparky00721 wrote: »
I have not read all (or even much) of this thread, but I am genuinely curious about this statement. Putting weight loss aside, is it not absolutely true that 150 calories of broccoli is healthier than 1500 calories of doughnuts?
(Secretly hoping they are exactly the same from a nutrition/health perspective so that I can go back to eating doughnuts.)
You can't measure the health of an individual food in a vacuum. It is all about the context of your overall diet.
Besides, do you actually think that eating 1500 calories of broccoli would be a) possible and b) pleasant? Especially for those around you?
Ok - I have to stop, I hate the strawman argument and can't even believe I've responded this much!
Right! 150 calories versus 1500. Yeah. That's a leap even Superman couldn't make.0 -
sparky00721 wrote: »jofjltncb6 wrote: »One benefit though...it leads to those humorously ridiculous comparisons of extremes where people argue 1500 calories of broccoli is healthier than 1500 calories of doughnuts. (It isn't.)
I have not read all (or even much) of this thread, but I am genuinely curious about this statement. Putting weight loss aside, is it not absolutely true that 1500 calories of broccoli is healthier than 1500 calories of doughnuts?
(Secretly hoping they are exactly the same from a nutrition/health perspective so that I can go back to eating doughnuts.)
Only on MFP is this even a debate.
I fill up on foods like sweet potatoes, cruciferous vegetables, and lean protein, and at the end of the day fit 70 - 300 calories of treats into my calorie budget.
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PikaKnight wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sparky00721 wrote: »
I have not read all (or even much) of this thread, but I am genuinely curious about this statement. Putting weight loss aside, is it not absolutely true that 150 calories of broccoli is healthier than 1500 calories of doughnuts?
(Secretly hoping they are exactly the same from a nutrition/health perspective so that I can go back to eating doughnuts.)
You can't measure the health of an individual food in a vacuum. It is all about the context of your overall diet.
Besides, do you actually think that eating 1500 calories of broccoli would be a) possible and b) pleasant? Especially for those around you?
Ok - I have to stop, I hate the strawman argument and can't even believe I've responded this much!
Right! 150 calories versus 1500. Yeah. That's a leap even Superman couldn't make.
150 was a typo. Should have been 1500.0 -
sparky00721 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sparky00721 wrote: »
I have not read all (or even much) of this thread, but I am genuinely curious about this statement. Putting weight loss aside, is it not absolutely true that 150 calories of broccoli is healthier than 1500 calories of doughnuts?
(Secretly hoping they are exactly the same from a nutrition/health perspective so that I can go back to eating doughnuts.)
You can't measure the health of an individual food in a vacuum. It is all about the context of your overall diet.
Besides, do you actually think that eating 1500 calories of broccoli would be a) possible and b) pleasant? Especially for those around you?
Ok - I have to stop, I hate the strawman argument and can't even believe I've responded this much!
Agreed about unhelpfulness of a vacuum, and I understand the importance of the context of the whole diet. And no, I do not think that actually eating that much broccoli would be either possible or pleasant for me.
I was just trying to understand why is it humorously ridiculous to say broccoli is not healthier than doughnuts. Healthier at the very least in the sense of providing more micronutrients and more fibre.
Except donuts provide more fat which is needed to function, whereas broccoli really doesn't. And there is still just as much of a risk to your health getting too much of certain micros (as you would definitely be overloading it with vitamin C with broccoli) as it would not getting enough with donuts.
I could see someone ending up in the hospital faster because of eating only broccoli versus donuts.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »PikaKnight wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sparky00721 wrote: »
I have not read all (or even much) of this thread, but I am genuinely curious about this statement. Putting weight loss aside, is it not absolutely true that 150 calories of broccoli is healthier than 1500 calories of doughnuts?
(Secretly hoping they are exactly the same from a nutrition/health perspective so that I can go back to eating doughnuts.)
You can't measure the health of an individual food in a vacuum. It is all about the context of your overall diet.
Besides, do you actually think that eating 1500 calories of broccoli would be a) possible and b) pleasant? Especially for those around you?
Ok - I have to stop, I hate the strawman argument and can't even believe I've responded this much!
Right! 150 calories versus 1500. Yeah. That's a leap even Superman couldn't make.
150 was a typo. Should have been 1500.
Gotcha.0 -
tracyannk28 wrote: »asimmons26 wrote: »Most calorie strategies for weight loss have a downfall. The reason is all calories are not created equal. Your best bet is to just worry about eating clean and drinking half your body weight in ounces of water each day. Your BMR doesn't stay the same. (As you stated) The better fit or unfit you become you would need to recalculate everything. Temperature also changes your BMR so to go strictly off of a calculation like TDEE would need to be an estimate only. Don't even bother with that. Stay away from whites (rice, bread, pasta). These should only be eaten for special occasions. Replace these with Ezekiel bread, quinoa, etc. Get creative with your veggies, no butter. Your veggies should be the biggest portion on your plate.
The OP lost me after this.
What's wrong with butter? Last time I heard it wasn't a white carb. LOL
Eat what you want to eat, in a calorie limit, and wait. That's the secret. Crazy, right?
Good Lord.
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Macros? Myfitnesspal has my protien set for 131 beforehand I exercise for the day. Is that what should aim for? I strive for around 100 grams and then I read that even 100 is too high and bad for you. I find I have more energy when I have some protein every few hours instead of a carb and I am not as hungry. (160 pound, 5 ft 2, body fat over 31%, female).0
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Only on MFP is this even a debate.
People like to major in the minors here...it's often a quick snipe and not a full blown explanation of the mentality the "seasoned" users are trying to fight in perceived newbies, and often it comes out "wrong", I agree. The "oh, I must eat 100% clean to be healthy" mentality is one we might have seen fail in ourselves and friends.
But ninerbuff kind of explained the mentality a lot of users "fight". Another of our mods explained how even a gummy bear is beneficial in context.
No one, however, would argue that a donut is just as nutrient dense as broccoli.
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heis4u2004 wrote: »Macros? Myfitnesspal has my protien set for 131 beforehand I exercise for the day. Is that what should aim for? I strive for around 100 grams and then I read that even 100 is too high and bad for you. I find I have more energy when I have some protein every few hours instead of a carb and I am not as hungry. (160 pound, 5 ft 2, body fat over 31%, female).
Where did you read that? It would only be bad if you had kidney issies. At your stats, 100g is probably about right0 -
I think it was coming from a vegetarian's viewpoint.0
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The primary function of food is to provide us with energy. Thus, calorie-dense foods are actually optimal for health. Ergo, donuts are a health food.0
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sparky00721 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »sparky00721" wrote:
I have not read all (or even much) of this thread, but I am genuinely curious about this statement. Putting weight loss aside, is it not absolutely true that 150 calories of broccoli is healthier than 1500 calories of doughnuts?
(Secretly hoping they are exactly the same from a nutrition/health perspective so that I can go back to eating doughnuts.)
No, it isn't absolutely true.
ETA: Maybe I'm being thrown off by mangled nested quotes, I don't know.
Thanks for responding Deguello Tex. It may not have been clear from my post, and perhaps I was misunderstanding the earlier poster. I thought someone was saying that it was humorously ridiculous to say that 1500 calories of broccoli is healthier than 1500 calories of doughnuts. If that was what was being said, I don't understand how that can be.
1500 calories of broccoli (that's a lot of broccoli): 100% RDA of Vitamin A, Vitamin C, Iron and 150 grams protein, plus 100 g fibre.
1500 calories of yummy doughnuts: 0% RDA of Vitamin A, Vitamin C and only 30% of calcium, plus 0% fibre.
Yes, I am saying its humorously ridiculous to say that 1500 calories of broccoli is healthier than 1500 calories of doughnuts.
Further, I'd given a choice between eating nothing but 1500 daily calories broccoli and nothing but 1500 daily calories of doughnuts for the rest of your life, I would take the doughnuts because I would be healthier and live longer.
And yes, this straw man argument is ridiculous *but* I argue that it does a decent job of demonstrating that context is important...nay, *essential* to understanding the healthfulness of a diet.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »sparky00721 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sparky00721 wrote: »
I have not read all (or even much) of this thread, but I am genuinely curious about this statement. Putting weight loss aside, is it not absolutely true that 150 calories of broccoli is healthier than 1500 calories of doughnuts?
(Secretly hoping they are exactly the same from a nutrition/health perspective so that I can go back to eating doughnuts.)
You can't measure the health of an individual food in a vacuum. It is all about the context of your overall diet.
Besides, do you actually think that eating 1500 calories of broccoli would be a) possible and b) pleasant? Especially for those around you?
Ok - I have to stop, I hate the strawman argument and can't even believe I've responded this much!
Agreed about unhelpfulness of a vacuum, and I understand the importance of the context of the whole diet. And no, I do not think that actually eating that much broccoli would be either possible or pleasant for me.
I was just trying to understand why is it humorously ridiculous to say broccoli is not healthier than doughnuts. Healthier at the very least in the sense of providing more micronutrients and more fibre.
Well, you've admitted to the problem in your question. If you can't separate a food from it's context in a diet as a whole, there is no "healthier" option. There's room in someone's day for BOTH some broccoli and a donut.
The thing is, none of this comes down to either ors, you've presented a false dilemma. It's one that's commonly brought up since the argument about dietary context is often ignored. How does that donut fit into one's consumption for the whole day? You might not need the fiber or other things, and might need some quick energy. The donut would be a better choice in that case.
Context really matters.
And there's the ultimate take-home point in the silly argument of extremes (that was admittedly my fault for raising).0 -
I'm at a plateau. Dropped 17 pounds, and stuck. I do cardio twice a day (morning 2 miles and afternoon 2 miles), I alternate leg day and arm day, I watch my intake on food and make better choices.
How can I get past this? I've been stuck for about 3 weeks now. The scale hasn't moved.0 -
heis4u2004 wrote: »Macros? Myfitnesspal has my protien set for 131 beforehand I exercise for the day. Is that what should aim for? I strive for around 100 grams and then I read that even 100 is too high and bad for you. I find I have more energy when I have some protein every few hours instead of a carb and I am not as hungry. (160 pound, 5 ft 2, body fat over 31%, female).
I'm 160lb female ..my protein minimum is 100g0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »sparky00721 wrote: »sparky00721 wrote: »jofjltncb6 wrote: »One benefit though...it leads to those humorously ridiculous comparisons of extremes where people argue 1500 calories of broccoli is healthier than 1500 calories of doughnuts. (It isn't.)
I have not read all (or even much) of this thread, but I am genuinely curious about this statement. Putting weight loss aside, is it not absolutely true that 150 calories of broccoli is healthier than 1500 calories of doughnuts?
(Secretly hoping they are exactly the same from a nutrition/health perspective so that I can go back to eating doughnuts.)
They are both very unhealthy. Neither has much protein, the donut is severely lacking in micronutrients, the broccoli has no fats and also limited micronutrients (although more than the donuts). Neither is the well rounded diet that humans need to thrive.
Actually I understand your first sentence even less than I understand the "humorously ridiculous" statement raised in my earlier posts. Clearly an all broccoli diet would be absurd. I have not read the whole thread, but I would be very surprised if anyone were suggesting that. I certainly was not, just exploring the statement that appeared to suggest that broccoli is not healthier than doughnuts.
I have never come across any site that has suggested that broccoli is "very unhealthy". It is clearly not complete, but "very unhealthy"?
1500 calories of broccoli would be very unhealthy. I cannot begin to imagine the impact it would have on your digestive system.
Once upon a time when this discussion was raised on an earlier thread, I proposed it would very possibly kill you or at least require hospitalization. Others disagreed strongly but I still stand by it.0 -
jofjltncb6 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »sparky00721 wrote: »sparky00721 wrote: »jofjltncb6 wrote: »One benefit though...it leads to those humorously ridiculous comparisons of extremes where people argue 1500 calories of broccoli is healthier than 1500 calories of doughnuts. (It isn't.)
I have not read all (or even much) of this thread, but I am genuinely curious about this statement. Putting weight loss aside, is it not absolutely true that 150 calories of broccoli is healthier than 1500 calories of doughnuts?
(Secretly hoping they are exactly the same from a nutrition/health perspective so that I can go back to eating doughnuts.)
They are both very unhealthy. Neither has much protein, the donut is severely lacking in micronutrients, the broccoli has no fats and also limited micronutrients (although more than the donuts). Neither is the well rounded diet that humans need to thrive.
Actually I understand your first sentence even less than I understand the "humorously ridiculous" statement raised in my earlier posts. Clearly an all broccoli diet would be absurd. I have not read the whole thread, but I would be very surprised if anyone were suggesting that. I certainly was not, just exploring the statement that appeared to suggest that broccoli is not healthier than doughnuts.
I have never come across any site that has suggested that broccoli is "very unhealthy". It is clearly not complete, but "very unhealthy"?
1500 calories of broccoli would be very unhealthy. I cannot begin to imagine the impact it would have on your digestive system.
Once upon a time when this discussion was raised on an earlier thread, I proposed it would very possibly kill you or at least require hospitalization. Others disagreed strongly but I still stand by it.
1500 calories of brocolli and a cork might just do it0 -
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