i just cant...
Replies
-
when i gained some weight over the last few years, i just did not really care one way or another about it! self control was just not needed in that department at the time....when i started to care about my health & extra weight, self control did indeed play a big role in me fulfilling my original goal in three months..without self control, i would of easily eaten and enjoyed ALL the NY cheesecake slices, chocolate crossaints and the yummy dark chocolate fudge that's been in my freezer since day one..
your 'know you should stop but, don't because you enjoy it', is a choice..if you really wanted to stop, you would!
0 -
How do you distinguish the implementation of "planning" from the implementation of "self-control"?DeguelloTex wrote: »
Does being easier for some people than others rule out "self-control" as what needs to happen?not sure if its because I got 3 hours of sleep due to a sewage like breaking under my house haha buuut. I find the responses of "will power" and "self control" so aggravating. So when you gained weight you activly chose to over eat and gain weight. Those things are learned over time after trial and error of adapting CICO. Ive said it before, if it were as easy as self control then id just about assume no one on the planet would ever gain weight or fall victim to bad choices.
Yes, I actively chose to overeat. Nobody held my mouth open and shoved food down my gullet. I did it all myself. Not my finest accomplishment but I did it all myself. Whether or not I did it to purposely gain weight (i.e., actively choosing to gain weight) or not, I chose to eat enough to gain weight. I made bad choices but I was not a victim.
Not sure why it's so aggravating to read the truth.
oh the truth isnt aggravating, but telling someone to have self control is an obvious statement. It is not helpful when they clearly know they lack in that department. When im watching football i should probably have self control when drinking beer but I dont because I enjoy it. I obviously know i should... and telling me to have it doesnt help me in anyway. Im sure there are many people on this site that lack self control in one aspect or another in their life.
But what else are we supposed to do? The alternative is to say "You poor thing. You are a victim. Your overeating patterns and weight gain are due to no fault of your own. Attempting to control yourself is futile. A lifetime of obesity is inevitable. Give up now."
I don't think so, I think the 3rd option is recognizing reasons for overeating in the past and planning to prevent that happening in future. I don't think of it in terms of "self-control" at all. Or maybe, in the sense that with knowledge and experience, you can minimize vulnerability.
yea i dont expect any one to coddle me or anyone else on this site... i just dont really like to see people stating the obvious when self control isnt as easy as snapping a finger.
"Self-control" is easier for some people than others for a HOST of very individual biological and psychological and environmental reasons. Have a problem with blood sugar, PCOS, thyroid, whatever? It's going to be different for you, and it's only by learning different practical strategies that "self-control" is going to be possible.
Great thoughts & links, @jgnatca
"Planning " is a word & framework I prefer. For me the idea of "self-control" is loaded with a whack of moral baggage & judgement I personally find unhelpful. Some people do find it helpful & empowering, they should use that idea. But they shouldn't impose it on others if it's not helpful for them0 -
I dislike the concept of willpower when it comes to not eating too much of ubiquitous tempting food. We have only a certain amount of willpower, it gets depleted through the day, and it needs to be used economically. I like the idea of skillpower, the ability to build good habits, reduce exposure, and find ways to stay occupied doing things that not involve food.0
-
not sure if its because I got 3 hours of sleep due to a sewage like breaking under my house haha buuut. I find the responses of "will power" and "self control" so aggravating. So when you gained weight you activly chose to over eat and gain weight. Those things are learned over time after trial and error of adapting CICO. Ive said it before, if it were as easy as self control then id just about assume no one on the planet would ever gain weight or fall victim to bad choices.
Same here, I find that idea super annoying and offensive. Calorie counting isn't a natural state, tons of reasons people gain that have nothing to do with them being "weak". Eating without thinking and without knowledge is enough 99% of the time in our society.
Yes to bolded, it just takes a while to figure out which macros to get to satiety on X calorie target, & how to reach them with things you love.
when someone posts like man i couldnt walk away from that cheesecake.. thats a very honest a real life issue many of us have had. Just being like "your an adult have some self control" is very condescending to me.
I agree that "You're an adult; have some self control" is not useful. The poster sharing their own strategies for control would be useful. Like for me it wouldn't be making (or buying) a whole cheesecake but just buying one slice and probably splitting it if it has as much calories as I think it does.
For the guacamole, I would weigh out one serving of it and the chips and then put them away and out of sight. I would also have it with protein. And carrots and celery sticks. I will overeat foods like chips if I don't have enough protein and fiber to go with them.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
How do you distinguish the implementation of "planning" from the implementation of "self-control"?DeguelloTex wrote: »
Does being easier for some people than others rule out "self-control" as what needs to happen?not sure if its because I got 3 hours of sleep due to a sewage like breaking under my house haha buuut. I find the responses of "will power" and "self control" so aggravating. So when you gained weight you activly chose to over eat and gain weight. Those things are learned over time after trial and error of adapting CICO. Ive said it before, if it were as easy as self control then id just about assume no one on the planet would ever gain weight or fall victim to bad choices.
Yes, I actively chose to overeat. Nobody held my mouth open and shoved food down my gullet. I did it all myself. Not my finest accomplishment but I did it all myself. Whether or not I did it to purposely gain weight (i.e., actively choosing to gain weight) or not, I chose to eat enough to gain weight. I made bad choices but I was not a victim.
Not sure why it's so aggravating to read the truth.
oh the truth isnt aggravating, but telling someone to have self control is an obvious statement. It is not helpful when they clearly know they lack in that department. When im watching football i should probably have self control when drinking beer but I dont because I enjoy it. I obviously know i should... and telling me to have it doesnt help me in anyway. Im sure there are many people on this site that lack self control in one aspect or another in their life.
But what else are we supposed to do? The alternative is to say "You poor thing. You are a victim. Your overeating patterns and weight gain are due to no fault of your own. Attempting to control yourself is futile. A lifetime of obesity is inevitable. Give up now."
I don't think so, I think the 3rd option is recognizing reasons for overeating in the past and planning to prevent that happening in future. I don't think of it in terms of "self-control" at all. Or maybe, in the sense that with knowledge and experience, you can minimize vulnerability.
yea i dont expect any one to coddle me or anyone else on this site... i just dont really like to see people stating the obvious when self control isnt as easy as snapping a finger.
"Self-control" is easier for some people than others for a HOST of very individual biological and psychological and environmental reasons. Have a problem with blood sugar, PCOS, thyroid, whatever? It's going to be different for you, and it's only by learning different practical strategies that "self-control" is going to be possible.
Great thoughts & links, @jgnatca
"Planning " is a word & framework I prefer. For me the idea of "self-control" is loaded with a whack of moral baggage & judgement I personally find unhelpful. Some people do find it helpful & empowering, they should use that idea. But they shouldn't impose it on others if it's not helpful for them
like @kshama2001 & @jgnatca said - breaking down the "baby steps" that make "self-control" more achievable, vs. looking at it like some kind of inborn character trait.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
Does being easier for some people than others rule out "self-control" as what needs to happen?not sure if its because I got 3 hours of sleep due to a sewage like breaking under my house haha buuut. I find the responses of "will power" and "self control" so aggravating. So when you gained weight you activly chose to over eat and gain weight. Those things are learned over time after trial and error of adapting CICO. Ive said it before, if it were as easy as self control then id just about assume no one on the planet would ever gain weight or fall victim to bad choices.
Yes, I actively chose to overeat. Nobody held my mouth open and shoved food down my gullet. I did it all myself. Not my finest accomplishment but I did it all myself. Whether or not I did it to purposely gain weight (i.e., actively choosing to gain weight) or not, I chose to eat enough to gain weight. I made bad choices but I was not a victim.
Not sure why it's so aggravating to read the truth.
oh the truth isnt aggravating, but telling someone to have self control is an obvious statement. It is not helpful when they clearly know they lack in that department. When im watching football i should probably have self control when drinking beer but I dont because I enjoy it. I obviously know i should... and telling me to have it doesnt help me in anyway. Im sure there are many people on this site that lack self control in one aspect or another in their life.
But what else are we supposed to do? The alternative is to say "You poor thing. You are a victim. Your overeating patterns and weight gain are due to no fault of your own. Attempting to control yourself is futile. A lifetime of obesity is inevitable. Give up now."
I don't think so, I think the 3rd option is recognizing reasons for overeating in the past and planning to prevent that happening in future. I don't think of it in terms of "self-control" at all. Or maybe, in the sense that with knowledge and experience, you can minimize vulnerability.
yea i dont expect any one to coddle me or anyone else on this site... i just dont really like to see people stating the obvious when self control isnt as easy as snapping a finger.
"Self-control" is easier for some people than others for a HOST of very individual biological and psychological and environmental reasons. Have a problem with blood sugar, PCOS, thyroid, whatever? It's going to be different for you, and it's only by learning different practical strategies that "self-control" is going to be possible.
Great thoughts & links, @jgnatca
"Planning " is a word & framework I prefer. For me the idea of "self-control" is loaded with a whack of moral baggage & judgement I personally find unhelpful. Some people do find it helpful & empowering, they should use that idea. But they shouldn't impose it on others if it's not helpful for them
I meal plan and prelog everything. I still have to exercise self-control when someone offers me something or have a hankering for something that I haven't planned for. Its all connected.0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »I dislike the concept of willpower when it comes to not eating too much of ubiquitous tempting food. We have only a certain amount of willpower, it gets depleted through the day, and it needs to be used economically. I like the idea of skillpower, the ability to build good habits, reduce exposure, and find ways to stay occupied doing things that not involve food.
Woot @kommodevaran! I love "skillpower"!0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »I dislike the concept of willpower when it comes to not eating too much of ubiquitous tempting food. We have only a certain amount of willpower, it gets depleted through the day, and it needs to be used economically. I like the idea of skillpower, the ability to build good habits, reduce exposure, and find ways to stay occupied doing things that not involve food.
Skillpower; love it.0 -
Doesn't that kind of beg the question, though? I mean, yeah, if your premise is that there isn't enough willpower to make it through the day then, yeah, there isn't enough willpower to make it through the day.kommodevaran wrote: »I dislike the concept of willpower when it comes to not eating too much of ubiquitous tempting food. We have only a certain amount of willpower, it gets depleted through the day, and it needs to be used economically. I like the idea of skillpower, the ability to build good habits, reduce exposure, and find ways to stay occupied doing things that not involve food.
Even presuming that's true, though, it doesn't mean that willpower isn't the answer, it just means that you want to try to organize your environment such that whatever amount of willpower you have is sufficient, right? If you want to call that "skillpower," whatever, but doesn't it ultimately come down to making your willpower last long enough?0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »I dislike the concept of willpower when it comes to not eating too much of ubiquitous tempting food. We have only a certain amount of willpower, it gets depleted through the day, and it needs to be used economically. I like the idea of skillpower, the ability to build good habits, reduce exposure, and find ways to stay occupied doing things that not involve food.
0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
Doesn't that kind of beg the question, though? I mean, yeah, if your premise is that there isn't enough willpower to make it through the day then, yeah, there isn't enough willpower to make it through the day.kommodevaran wrote: »I dislike the concept of willpower when it comes to not eating too much of ubiquitous tempting food. We have only a certain amount of willpower, it gets depleted through the day, and it needs to be used economically. I like the idea of skillpower, the ability to build good habits, reduce exposure, and find ways to stay occupied doing things that not involve food.
Even presuming that's true, though, it doesn't mean that willpower isn't the answer, it just means that you want to try to organize your environment such that whatever amount of willpower you have is sufficient, right? If you want to call that "skillpower," whatever, but doesn't it ultimately come down to making your willpower last long enough?
Sure, but like @tomatoey said, a useful post is one that includes "breaking down the "baby steps" that make "self-control" more achievable, vs. looking at it like some kind of inborn character trait."0 -
I guess I'm unique once again... I did not actively choose to gain weight. I also did not ignore creeping weight gain and passively choose to gain weight.
When I started to gain weight, I gained 20 lbs. in the first month, 60 lbs. in the first year, and more after that. This was because I was eating a very specific and rigid diet plan put together by a medical team. It wasn't easy at first. In fact, I felt like I was being pressured to eat more than was comfortable. But after a couple months and a whole lot of gain, my appetite caught up to the plan. Soon after, I just became insatiable. This happened as a kid, and I grew into some of that weight gain as a teenager (through the normal process of physical growth experienced during that age), but not all of it.
As an adult, I was basically the same weight for years until I found MFP and started losing (albeit slowly) finally. Until then, medical staff was never able to find a way to help me. I think that was because the amount of work put into daily tracking and decision making in relation to the amount of weight loss obtained is too much for most doctors. I've been trained thoroughly in my medical conditions (I have more training specifically about the primary related condition than most M.D.'s), which allows me to be able to manage the weight loss myself. I follow up with a specialist every few months, who is always much more pleased about my progress than I am.
Personally, it is less important to me to dwell on why I've gained the weight than it is to have a clear understanding of the challenges I face when losing weight. Still, I find this is incorrect (absolute statements regarding weight management are likely incorrect for somebody and/or some circumstance):So when you gained weight you activly chose to over eat and gain weight.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
How do you distinguish the implementation of "planning" from the implementation of "self-control"?DeguelloTex wrote: »
Does being easier for some people than others rule out "self-control" as what needs to happen?not sure if its because I got 3 hours of sleep due to a sewage like breaking under my house haha buuut. I find the responses of "will power" and "self control" so aggravating. So when you gained weight you activly chose to over eat and gain weight. Those things are learned over time after trial and error of adapting CICO. Ive said it before, if it were as easy as self control then id just about assume no one on the planet would ever gain weight or fall victim to bad choices.
Yes, I actively chose to overeat. Nobody held my mouth open and shoved food down my gullet. I did it all myself. Not my finest accomplishment but I did it all myself. Whether or not I did it to purposely gain weight (i.e., actively choosing to gain weight) or not, I chose to eat enough to gain weight. I made bad choices but I was not a victim.
Not sure why it's so aggravating to read the truth.
oh the truth isnt aggravating, but telling someone to have self control is an obvious statement. It is not helpful when they clearly know they lack in that department. When im watching football i should probably have self control when drinking beer but I dont because I enjoy it. I obviously know i should... and telling me to have it doesnt help me in anyway. Im sure there are many people on this site that lack self control in one aspect or another in their life.
But what else are we supposed to do? The alternative is to say "You poor thing. You are a victim. Your overeating patterns and weight gain are due to no fault of your own. Attempting to control yourself is futile. A lifetime of obesity is inevitable. Give up now."
I don't think so, I think the 3rd option is recognizing reasons for overeating in the past and planning to prevent that happening in future. I don't think of it in terms of "self-control" at all. Or maybe, in the sense that with knowledge and experience, you can minimize vulnerability.
yea i dont expect any one to coddle me or anyone else on this site... i just dont really like to see people stating the obvious when self control isnt as easy as snapping a finger.
"Self-control" is easier for some people than others for a HOST of very individual biological and psychological and environmental reasons. Have a problem with blood sugar, PCOS, thyroid, whatever? It's going to be different for you, and it's only by learning different practical strategies that "self-control" is going to be possible.
Great thoughts & links, @jgnatca
"Planning " is a word & framework I prefer. For me the idea of "self-control" is loaded with a whack of moral baggage & judgement I personally find unhelpful. Some people do find it helpful & empowering, they should use that idea. But they shouldn't impose it on others if it's not helpful for them
You didn't ask me, but I'd like to answer what I think: Planning is the act of, in a calm and relaxed state of mind, carefully weighing pros and cons, deliberately deciding to do something that you feel will be good for you (and maybe those close to you), ethically sound, but without any heavy moral judgement - short term as well as long term. Exerting self-control is forcing yourself to do (or don't do) something you don't want to (or want to), telling yourself you're a bad person if you mess up now, trying to suppress short term rewards that are strong and intense, while long term rewards are only a vague blur.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »I didn't actively choose to do it, I just didn't actively choose not to do it.
If it's not self-control, what is it?
just dont think its that easy especially for people just starting out. If there is guacamole in front of me iwill eat all of it. lack of self control probably. people that have spent years of over eating have a hard time just being like yea man self control.
So when others note this, you see it as condescending but it is something that you realize is true?0 -
The classic self-control test.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=QX_oy9614HQ
Note the various ways the children use to distract themselves. From the mouths of babes!
The children who were able to restrain themselves, by the way, were more successful later in life. Self-control does matter.0 -
Useful for some people; not useful for other people.kshama2001 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Doesn't that kind of beg the question, though? I mean, yeah, if your premise is that there isn't enough willpower to make it through the day then, yeah, there isn't enough willpower to make it through the day.kommodevaran wrote: »I dislike the concept of willpower when it comes to not eating too much of ubiquitous tempting food. We have only a certain amount of willpower, it gets depleted through the day, and it needs to be used economically. I like the idea of skillpower, the ability to build good habits, reduce exposure, and find ways to stay occupied doing things that not involve food.
Even presuming that's true, though, it doesn't mean that willpower isn't the answer, it just means that you want to try to organize your environment such that whatever amount of willpower you have is sufficient, right? If you want to call that "skillpower," whatever, but doesn't it ultimately come down to making your willpower last long enough?
Sure, but like @tomatoey said, a useful post is one that includes "breaking down the "baby steps" that make "self-control" more achievable, vs. looking at it like some kind of inborn character trait."
This ongoing campaign to force all answers into the same box as if all posters and readers process the world in the same way is getting really grating.
If you think it's a more useful answer, give that answer. Others will give other answers. And posters and lurkers can pick what works for them.0 -
It's not easy for most people. If it were as easy as it is for those few who insist it's easy, everyone would be thin!
It's hard. Losing weight - especially a great deal of weight - is hard. It requires a serious commitment and takes a long time.
It's been really hard for me. The beginning - learning to eat better and saying NO to certain foods was the toughest. Figuring out a way to make my diet healthy, but yummy...it was hard! Finally admitting to myself that I couldn't eat processed foods and still keep my sodium under control - that took even longer.
Honestly, it took a long time before it all got much easier and it's still hard sometimes. Lots of "Two steps forward, one step back." Frustration with the process and myself - it happened. It happens.
I know a few people find it all to be as easy as pie (and I think all of them are members here, lol), but for most people, it's really hard! You're not alone in that.0 -
Yeah it sort of depends on the person doesn't it? I think a lot of the "this is mean, that is mean" stuff that gets thrown around on here is a lack of having been there.
If the poster in question is that same guy who KEEPS coming around complaining he can't lose weight because cheesecake is delectable, even though people have been through the ringer with him TIME and TIME AGAIN with useful strategies he might try and he still isn't exercising them, then a well placed "Okay, you're just gonna need to grow up and get your **** together, what else can we tell you?" isn't necessarily out of line (certainly not that phrasing, but that sentiment).
If it's someone who has never posted about it and they are just starting out and they just haven't gotten into this enough yet to have the willpower, that's not a time for "cowboy up", that's a time for introducing strategies and advice and really doing anything we can to help that person control their food-related urges so they can be spared the guilt that comes along with failure there. It's different strokes.
There are appropriate and inappropriate uses of the self-control argument, and if you weren't there to watch the nicey-nice go down five or six similar posts in a row, it may not be clear that what's going on is someone resisting change willfully who probably needs to be snapped out of it and held accountable to their excuses. Because just as there are cases like yours, OP, where the need is nearly addictive in nature, there are also cases of people who really are just bedding themselves down in excuses that need to be told how it is. It's in differentiating one from another that situations seem to occur where there is obvious and wanton misuse of the "cowboy up" statements.0 -
The classic self-control test.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=QX_oy9614HQ
Note the various ways the children use to distract themselves. From the mouths of babes!
The children who were able to restrain themselves, by the way, were more successful later in life. Self-control does matter.
Even more interesting were the follow-ups, I believe crayons were used. The difference in ability to exert self-control depended a lot on whether the child could trust that they were indeed going to get the reward later. The children who were "lied" to "sorry, there were no crayons left" had more trouble waiting for rewards in later trials, knowing this could be their "only chance".0 -
It's not easy for most people. If it were as easy as it is for those few who insist it's easy, everyone would be thin!
It's hard. Losing weight - especially a great deal of weight - is hard. It requires a serious commitment and takes a long time.
It's been really hard for me. The beginning - learning to eat better and saying NO to certain foods was the toughest. Figuring out a way to make my diet healthy, but yummy...it was hard! Finally admitting to myself that I couldn't eat processed foods and still keep my sodium under control - that took even longer.
Honestly, it took a long time before it all got much easier and it's still hard sometimes. Lots of "Two steps forward, one step back." Frustration with the process and myself - it happened. It happens.
I know a few people find it all to be as easy as pie (and I think all of them are members here, lol), but for most people, it's really hard! You're not alone in that.
I would like to believe that the people who found it to be easy (and I know a guy IRL that had it as easy as the users on MFP who act like it was easy) just look back from the top of the mountain and forget the individual steps to get there. For some of them, it may well have been difficult, but they have selective memory.
Having said that, I know 3 people in real life who have lost substantial weight during the time I've been trying to lose weight. All of them have had it easier than me (but to different degrees) and lost more weight too. Still, only 1 of those 3 stands out to me as having it truly easy (vs. easier in comparison).0 -
I believe people who say it was all a cake walk for them. But they're in a tiny minority. For most people, it's not that easy. A lot of people work hard and struggle to make changes. We plan, we try things, some work, some don't. We make changes. We keep going until we find something that works for us...and then we keep working hard.midwesterner85 wrote: »It's not easy for most people. If it were as easy as it is for those few who insist it's easy, everyone would be thin!
It's hard. Losing weight - especially a great deal of weight - is hard. It requires a serious commitment and takes a long time.
It's been really hard for me. The beginning - learning to eat better and saying NO to certain foods was the toughest. Figuring out a way to make my diet healthy, but yummy...it was hard! Finally admitting to myself that I couldn't eat processed foods and still keep my sodium under control - that took even longer.
Honestly, it took a long time before it all got much easier and it's still hard sometimes. Lots of "Two steps forward, one step back." Frustration with the process and myself - it happened. It happens.
I know a few people find it all to be as easy as pie (and I think all of them are members here, lol), but for most people, it's really hard! You're not alone in that.
I would like to believe that the people who found it to be easy (and I know a guy IRL that had it as easy as the users on MFP who act like it was easy) just look back from the top of the mountain and forget the individual steps to get there. For some of them, it may well have been difficult, but they have selective memory.
Having said that, I know 3 people in real life who have lost substantial weight during the time I've been trying to lose weight. All of them have had it easier than me (but to different degrees) and lost more weight too. Still, only 1 of those 3 stands out to me as having it truly easy (vs. easier in comparison).
My changes might not be good for someone else, but I suggest my thing because it worked for me. Someone else suggests their thing. If a bunch of different people give their ideas, the OP can pick and choose and maybe see something they hadn't considered.
There is no single way to do it. We all find the way that works for us.
0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
How do you distinguish the implementation of "planning" from the implementation of "self-control"?DeguelloTex wrote: »
Does being easier for some people than others rule out "self-control" as what needs to happen?not sure if its because I got 3 hours of sleep due to a sewage like breaking under my house haha buuut. I find the responses of "will power" and "self control" so aggravating. So when you gained weight you activly chose to over eat and gain weight. Those things are learned over time after trial and error of adapting CICO. Ive said it before, if it were as easy as self control then id just about assume no one on the planet would ever gain weight or fall victim to bad choices.
Yes, I actively chose to overeat. Nobody held my mouth open and shoved food down my gullet. I did it all myself. Not my finest accomplishment but I did it all myself. Whether or not I did it to purposely gain weight (i.e., actively choosing to gain weight) or not, I chose to eat enough to gain weight. I made bad choices but I was not a victim.
Not sure why it's so aggravating to read the truth.
oh the truth isnt aggravating, but telling someone to have self control is an obvious statement. It is not helpful when they clearly know they lack in that department. When im watching football i should probably have self control when drinking beer but I dont because I enjoy it. I obviously know i should... and telling me to have it doesnt help me in anyway. Im sure there are many people on this site that lack self control in one aspect or another in their life.
But what else are we supposed to do? The alternative is to say "You poor thing. You are a victim. Your overeating patterns and weight gain are due to no fault of your own. Attempting to control yourself is futile. A lifetime of obesity is inevitable. Give up now."
I don't think so, I think the 3rd option is recognizing reasons for overeating in the past and planning to prevent that happening in future. I don't think of it in terms of "self-control" at all. Or maybe, in the sense that with knowledge and experience, you can minimize vulnerability.
yea i dont expect any one to coddle me or anyone else on this site... i just dont really like to see people stating the obvious when self control isnt as easy as snapping a finger.
"Self-control" is easier for some people than others for a HOST of very individual biological and psychological and environmental reasons. Have a problem with blood sugar, PCOS, thyroid, whatever? It's going to be different for you, and it's only by learning different practical strategies that "self-control" is going to be possible.
Great thoughts & links, @jgnatca
"Planning " is a word & framework I prefer. For me the idea of "self-control" is loaded with a whack of moral baggage & judgement I personally find unhelpful. Some people do find it helpful & empowering, they should use that idea. But they shouldn't impose it on others if it's not helpful for them
You didn't ask me, but I'd like to answer what I think: Planning is the act of, in a calm and relaxed state of mind, carefully weighing pros and cons, deliberately deciding to do something that you feel will be good for you (and maybe those close to you), ethically sound, but without any heavy moral judgement - short term as well as long term. Exerting self-control is forcing yourself to do (or don't do) something you don't want to (or want to), telling yourself you're a bad person if you mess up now, trying to suppress short term rewards that are strong and intense, while long term rewards are only a vague blur.
Very well said, better than I could do - glad you answered
0 -
That's not how I see it at all.kommodevaran wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
How do you distinguish the implementation of "planning" from the implementation of "self-control"?DeguelloTex wrote: »
Does being easier for some people than others rule out "self-control" as what needs to happen?not sure if its because I got 3 hours of sleep due to a sewage like breaking under my house haha buuut. I find the responses of "will power" and "self control" so aggravating. So when you gained weight you activly chose to over eat and gain weight. Those things are learned over time after trial and error of adapting CICO. Ive said it before, if it were as easy as self control then id just about assume no one on the planet would ever gain weight or fall victim to bad choices.
Yes, I actively chose to overeat. Nobody held my mouth open and shoved food down my gullet. I did it all myself. Not my finest accomplishment but I did it all myself. Whether or not I did it to purposely gain weight (i.e., actively choosing to gain weight) or not, I chose to eat enough to gain weight. I made bad choices but I was not a victim.
Not sure why it's so aggravating to read the truth.
oh the truth isnt aggravating, but telling someone to have self control is an obvious statement. It is not helpful when they clearly know they lack in that department. When im watching football i should probably have self control when drinking beer but I dont because I enjoy it. I obviously know i should... and telling me to have it doesnt help me in anyway. Im sure there are many people on this site that lack self control in one aspect or another in their life.
But what else are we supposed to do? The alternative is to say "You poor thing. You are a victim. Your overeating patterns and weight gain are due to no fault of your own. Attempting to control yourself is futile. A lifetime of obesity is inevitable. Give up now."
I don't think so, I think the 3rd option is recognizing reasons for overeating in the past and planning to prevent that happening in future. I don't think of it in terms of "self-control" at all. Or maybe, in the sense that with knowledge and experience, you can minimize vulnerability.
yea i dont expect any one to coddle me or anyone else on this site... i just dont really like to see people stating the obvious when self control isnt as easy as snapping a finger.
"Self-control" is easier for some people than others for a HOST of very individual biological and psychological and environmental reasons. Have a problem with blood sugar, PCOS, thyroid, whatever? It's going to be different for you, and it's only by learning different practical strategies that "self-control" is going to be possible.
Great thoughts & links, @jgnatca
"Planning " is a word & framework I prefer. For me the idea of "self-control" is loaded with a whack of moral baggage & judgement I personally find unhelpful. Some people do find it helpful & empowering, they should use that idea. But they shouldn't impose it on others if it's not helpful for them
You didn't ask me, but I'd like to answer what I think: Planning is the act of, in a calm and relaxed state of mind, carefully weighing pros and cons, deliberately deciding to do something that you feel will be good for you (and maybe those close to you), ethically sound, but without any heavy moral judgement - short term as well as long term. Exerting self-control is forcing yourself to do (or don't do) something you don't want to (or want to), telling yourself you're a bad person if you mess up now, trying to suppress short term rewards that are strong and intense, while long term rewards are only a vague blur.
I prelog all my eating. To me, that sounds like planning. Agreed?
When I get the sherbet, I see the dutch chocolate ice cream. When I get the strawberries, I see the cheese. When I get tuna, I see the cookies and peanut butter cups. I exert self-control when I forego those potentially more attractive options and stick to what I've planned. I do definitely suppress short term rewards that are strong and intense.
I don't view it in terms of being a "bad person." I view it in terms of being a person who's focused on his goals. Now, that means sticking with food choices that better fit those goals. Previously, it had been sticking with academic work instead of going to a bar. Or focusing on learning a programming language instead of watching TV. Or focusing on the yard work that needed to be done instead of sitting down to play WoW. It isn't about being a good or bad person, to me. It's about living up to my expectations for myself.0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
How do you distinguish the implementation of "planning" from the implementation of "self-control"?DeguelloTex wrote: »
Does being easier for some people than others rule out "self-control" as what needs to happen?not sure if its because I got 3 hours of sleep due to a sewage like breaking under my house haha buuut. I find the responses of "will power" and "self control" so aggravating. So when you gained weight you activly chose to over eat and gain weight. Those things are learned over time after trial and error of adapting CICO. Ive said it before, if it were as easy as self control then id just about assume no one on the planet would ever gain weight or fall victim to bad choices.
Yes, I actively chose to overeat. Nobody held my mouth open and shoved food down my gullet. I did it all myself. Not my finest accomplishment but I did it all myself. Whether or not I did it to purposely gain weight (i.e., actively choosing to gain weight) or not, I chose to eat enough to gain weight. I made bad choices but I was not a victim.
Not sure why it's so aggravating to read the truth.
oh the truth isnt aggravating, but telling someone to have self control is an obvious statement. It is not helpful when they clearly know they lack in that department. When im watching football i should probably have self control when drinking beer but I dont because I enjoy it. I obviously know i should... and telling me to have it doesnt help me in anyway. Im sure there are many people on this site that lack self control in one aspect or another in their life.
But what else are we supposed to do? The alternative is to say "You poor thing. You are a victim. Your overeating patterns and weight gain are due to no fault of your own. Attempting to control yourself is futile. A lifetime of obesity is inevitable. Give up now."
I don't think so, I think the 3rd option is recognizing reasons for overeating in the past and planning to prevent that happening in future. I don't think of it in terms of "self-control" at all. Or maybe, in the sense that with knowledge and experience, you can minimize vulnerability.
yea i dont expect any one to coddle me or anyone else on this site... i just dont really like to see people stating the obvious when self control isnt as easy as snapping a finger.
"Self-control" is easier for some people than others for a HOST of very individual biological and psychological and environmental reasons. Have a problem with blood sugar, PCOS, thyroid, whatever? It's going to be different for you, and it's only by learning different practical strategies that "self-control" is going to be possible.
Great thoughts & links, @jgnatca
"Planning " is a word & framework I prefer. For me the idea of "self-control" is loaded with a whack of moral baggage & judgement I personally find unhelpful. Some people do find it helpful & empowering, they should use that idea. But they shouldn't impose it on others if it's not helpful for them
You didn't ask me, but I'd like to answer what I think: Planning is the act of, in a calm and relaxed state of mind, carefully weighing pros and cons, deliberately deciding to do something that you feel will be good for you (and maybe those close to you), ethically sound, but without any heavy moral judgement - short term as well as long term. Exerting self-control is forcing yourself to do (or don't do) something you don't want to (or want to), telling yourself you're a bad person if you mess up now, trying to suppress short term rewards that are strong and intense, while long term rewards are only a vague blur.
Self control is an aspect of discipline. Discipline is doing the right thing ... not telling yourself that you're horrible if you make a mistake.0 -
simple =/= easy.
It is simply "self control", but that doesn't mean its easy to execute. You just have to keep telling yourself no. It does get easier with time.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
Useful for some people; not useful for other people.kshama2001 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Doesn't that kind of beg the question, though? I mean, yeah, if your premise is that there isn't enough willpower to make it through the day then, yeah, there isn't enough willpower to make it through the day.kommodevaran wrote: »I dislike the concept of willpower when it comes to not eating too much of ubiquitous tempting food. We have only a certain amount of willpower, it gets depleted through the day, and it needs to be used economically. I like the idea of skillpower, the ability to build good habits, reduce exposure, and find ways to stay occupied doing things that not involve food.
Even presuming that's true, though, it doesn't mean that willpower isn't the answer, it just means that you want to try to organize your environment such that whatever amount of willpower you have is sufficient, right? If you want to call that "skillpower," whatever, but doesn't it ultimately come down to making your willpower last long enough?
Sure, but like @tomatoey said, a useful post is one that includes "breaking down the "baby steps" that make "self-control" more achievable, vs. looking at it like some kind of inborn character trait."
This ongoing campaign to force all answers into the same box as if all posters and readers process the world in the same way is getting really grating.
If you think it's a more useful answer, give that answer. Others will give other answers. And posters and lurkers can pick what works for them.
Agreed.
I don't find "self control" as an answer to be irritating or grating or simplistic or whatever other negative description it has been given in this thread. Therefore I will not hesitate to suggest it to others. If you disagree, give a different answer.
We're all different. Different communication styles work better for some people than others. Feel free to use yours but don't waste time getting your knickers in a twist over others using theirs.0 -
Another suggestion is to read the book "The Power of Habit" by Charles Duhigg. Really interesting stuff. It talks about how habits work and that you can set off a subconscious just by being exposed to a cue. It also explains how to reprogram your habits. Once again, it's simple, but not easy. Really great read though. Here's a peak:
https://experiencelife.com/article/the-power-of-habit/0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
Useful for some people; not useful for other people.kshama2001 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Doesn't that kind of beg the question, though? I mean, yeah, if your premise is that there isn't enough willpower to make it through the day then, yeah, there isn't enough willpower to make it through the day.kommodevaran wrote: »I dislike the concept of willpower when it comes to not eating too much of ubiquitous tempting food. We have only a certain amount of willpower, it gets depleted through the day, and it needs to be used economically. I like the idea of skillpower, the ability to build good habits, reduce exposure, and find ways to stay occupied doing things that not involve food.
Even presuming that's true, though, it doesn't mean that willpower isn't the answer, it just means that you want to try to organize your environment such that whatever amount of willpower you have is sufficient, right? If you want to call that "skillpower," whatever, but doesn't it ultimately come down to making your willpower last long enough?
Sure, but like @tomatoey said, a useful post is one that includes "breaking down the "baby steps" that make "self-control" more achievable, vs. looking at it like some kind of inborn character trait."
This ongoing campaign to force all answers into the same box as if all posters and readers process the world in the same way is getting really grating.
If you think it's a more useful answer, give that answer. Others will give other answers. And posters and lurkers can pick what works for them.
Agreed.
I don't find "self control" as an answer to be irritating or grating or simplistic or whatever other negative description it has been given in this thread. Therefore I will not hesitate to suggest it to others. If you disagree, give a different answer.
We're all different. Different communication styles work better for some people than others. Feel free to use yours but don't waste time getting your knickers in a twist over others using theirs.
at the the end of the day the answer is self control. but it will be useful to hear from different people what they did to help. one liner of self control. just do it, or you are an adult take control is not helpful
i started off by not buying any fizzy drinks in the house and certain snacks. i later introduced them back in the house.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
Useful for some people; not useful for other people.kshama2001 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Doesn't that kind of beg the question, though? I mean, yeah, if your premise is that there isn't enough willpower to make it through the day then, yeah, there isn't enough willpower to make it through the day.kommodevaran wrote: »I dislike the concept of willpower when it comes to not eating too much of ubiquitous tempting food. We have only a certain amount of willpower, it gets depleted through the day, and it needs to be used economically. I like the idea of skillpower, the ability to build good habits, reduce exposure, and find ways to stay occupied doing things that not involve food.
Even presuming that's true, though, it doesn't mean that willpower isn't the answer, it just means that you want to try to organize your environment such that whatever amount of willpower you have is sufficient, right? If you want to call that "skillpower," whatever, but doesn't it ultimately come down to making your willpower last long enough?
Sure, but like @tomatoey said, a useful post is one that includes "breaking down the "baby steps" that make "self-control" more achievable, vs. looking at it like some kind of inborn character trait."
This ongoing campaign to force all answers into the same box as if all posters and readers process the world in the same way is getting really grating.
If you think it's a more useful answer, give that answer. Others will give other answers. And posters and lurkers can pick what works for them.
Yeah agree with that.
The one possible negative I see is when someone posts about having trouble with compliance, and
- they happen to have some of those negative associations described above - which people might attach to that phrase for lots of reasons, e.g. having had negative experiences with teachers or parents who used it
- they get dozens of "self-control" answers, some more harsh than others, browbeating them for being "weak" or whatever
- they find that hurtful & it puts them off using MFP as a resource, which could otherwise give them tools to work towards "skillpower" / success. I think it's a shame when that happens. I think it does happen (although it's hard to say how often, if people drop out).0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Doesn't that kind of beg the question, though? I mean, yeah, if your premise is that there isn't enough willpower to make it through the day then, yeah, there isn't enough willpower to make it through the day.kommodevaran wrote: »I dislike the concept of willpower when it comes to not eating too much of ubiquitous tempting food. We have only a certain amount of willpower, it gets depleted through the day, and it needs to be used economically. I like the idea of skillpower, the ability to build good habits, reduce exposure, and find ways to stay occupied doing things that not involve food.
Even presuming that's true, though, it doesn't mean that willpower isn't the answer, it just means that you want to try to organize your environment such that whatever amount of willpower you have is sufficient, right? If you want to call that "skillpower," whatever, but doesn't it ultimately come down to making your willpower last long enough?
Sure, but like @tomatoey said, a useful post is one that includes "breaking down the "baby steps" that make "self-control" more achievable, vs. looking at it like some kind of inborn character trait."
an inborn character trait that occurs once you hit adult hood0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 422 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions