i just cant...
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It is very hard to eliminate old habit patterns and I swear people who adapt their existing habits without trying to force a change are more successful. I found it very helpful to read about Hait's "rider and the elephant" and Duhigg's book on Habit.
I use a technique developed by Stanford for people with chronic conditions where I take a problem, troubleshoot solutions, try one for a week, and re-evaluate. By knowing myself I develop strategies, one by one and slowly over time, that gradually lead me to a healthier way of living.
Read, "Is Willpower a limited resource?"
So you build self-control and success by being kind to yourself, and building strategies that slowly builds your willpower over time. You can replenish your willpower by giving yourself a little joy.
this is an excellent post and i will for sure look into reading that thank you.0 -
Again, what's your alternative?not sure if its because I got 3 hours of sleep due to a sewage like breaking under my house haha buuut. I find the responses of "will power" and "self control" so aggravating. So when you gained weight you activly chose to over eat and gain weight. Those things are learned over time after trial and error of adapting CICO. Ive said it before, if it were as easy as self control then id just about assume no one on the planet would ever gain weight or fall victim to bad choices.
Same here, I find that idea super annoying and offensive. Calorie counting isn't a natural state, tons of reasons people gain that have nothing to do with them being "weak". Eating without thinking and without knowledge is enough 99% of the time in our society.
Yes to bolded, it just takes a while to figure out which macros to get to satiety on X calorie target, & how to reach them with things you love.
when someone posts like man i couldnt walk away from that cheesecake.. thats a very honest a real life issue many of us have had. Just being like "your an adult have some self control" is very condescending to me.
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
I think the way you said it sounds better than, "you just need to control yourself". One is empowering, the other one reminds me of my mom yelling at me in the bathroom at church for not sitting still in my seat.
They both say the same thing. You need to control yourself. You're the only one who can.0 -
not sure if its because I got 3 hours of sleep due to a sewage like breaking under my house haha buuut. I find the responses of "will power" and "self control" so aggravating. So when you gained weight you activly chose to over eat and gain weight. Those things are learned over time after trial and error of adapting CICO. Ive said it before, if it were as easy as self control then id just about assume no one on the planet would ever gain weight or fall victim to bad choices.
Yes, I actively chose to overeat. Nobody held my mouth open and shoved food down my gullet. I did it all myself. Not my finest accomplishment but I did it all myself. Whether or not I did it to purposely gain weight (i.e., actively choosing to gain weight) or not, I chose to eat enough to gain weight. I made bad choices but I was not a victim.
Not sure why it's so aggravating to read the truth.
oh the truth isnt aggravating, but telling someone to have self control is an obvious statement. It is not helpful when they clearly know they lack in that department. When im watching football i should probably have self control when drinking beer but I dont because I enjoy it. I obviously know i should... and telling me to have it doesnt help me in anyway. Im sure there are many people on this site that lack self control in one aspect or another in their life.
But what else are we supposed to do? The alternative is to say "You poor thing. You are a victim. Your overeating patterns and weight gain are due to no fault of your own. Attempting to control yourself is futile. A lifetime of obesity is inevitable. Give up now."
I don't think so, I think the 3rd option is recognizing reasons for overeating in the past and planning to prevent that happening in future. I don't think of it in terms of "self-control" at all. Or maybe, in the sense that with knowledge and experience, you can minimize vulnerability.
yea i dont expect any one to coddle me or anyone else on this site... i just dont really like to see people stating the obvious when self control isnt as easy as snapping a finger.
"Self-control" is easier for some people than others for a HOST of very individual biological and psychological and environmental reasons. Have a problem with blood sugar, PCOS, thyroid, whatever? It's going to be different for you, and it's only by learning different practical strategies that "self-control" is going to be possible.
Great thoughts & links, @jgnatca0 -
Think of will-power/self-control as a muscle you have to exercise. If I told you right now to go run a 5k, you may or may not be able to do it. But if I told you in 2 months I'll be back to tell you to run a 5k, you will have ample time to work at it. Same with self control. And I think a lot of this has to do with the mentality of weight loss. You didn't get where you are overnight. Many of us have habits that have been engrained in us for years. Most of us will not wake up tomorrow and be able to say no to everything. You can have your beer and cheesecake, just have it in moderation. Make it fit your calories
Watching football all day yesterday, I saw MANY commercials for the new Boss Wrap at Taco Bell, and it looked awesome. I didn't eat breakfast, had a reasonable lunch, and then went and got a single item from Taco Bell that was 870 cals. And I enjoyed every bite. I was a tad hungry later, and didn't eat anything, because I was at my calories for the day. I've been working on self-control for a few months, and its definitely getting easier! So just keep at it. Start small, and it will get easier each time! And if you slip up, just remember that YOU are making the choice, and don't blame it on habits.
The formula of weight loss is easy. Doing it, on the other hand, is the challenge. 0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
I think the way you said it sounds better than, "you just need to control yourself". One is empowering, the other one reminds me of my mom yelling at me in the bathroom at church for not sitting still in my seat.
They both say the same thing. You need to control yourself. You're the only one who can.
They don't say it in the same way. There is a reason people chose to use language in different ways. You can convey the same message multiple ways.
I could tell someone:
"I would like you to shut up right now."
OR
"Can we please talk about this later?"
They say the same thing, but one is inflammatory.0 -
Does being easier for some people than others rule out "self-control" as what needs to happen?not sure if its because I got 3 hours of sleep due to a sewage like breaking under my house haha buuut. I find the responses of "will power" and "self control" so aggravating. So when you gained weight you activly chose to over eat and gain weight. Those things are learned over time after trial and error of adapting CICO. Ive said it before, if it were as easy as self control then id just about assume no one on the planet would ever gain weight or fall victim to bad choices.
Yes, I actively chose to overeat. Nobody held my mouth open and shoved food down my gullet. I did it all myself. Not my finest accomplishment but I did it all myself. Whether or not I did it to purposely gain weight (i.e., actively choosing to gain weight) or not, I chose to eat enough to gain weight. I made bad choices but I was not a victim.
Not sure why it's so aggravating to read the truth.
oh the truth isnt aggravating, but telling someone to have self control is an obvious statement. It is not helpful when they clearly know they lack in that department. When im watching football i should probably have self control when drinking beer but I dont because I enjoy it. I obviously know i should... and telling me to have it doesnt help me in anyway. Im sure there are many people on this site that lack self control in one aspect or another in their life.
But what else are we supposed to do? The alternative is to say "You poor thing. You are a victim. Your overeating patterns and weight gain are due to no fault of your own. Attempting to control yourself is futile. A lifetime of obesity is inevitable. Give up now."
I don't think so, I think the 3rd option is recognizing reasons for overeating in the past and planning to prevent that happening in future. I don't think of it in terms of "self-control" at all. Or maybe, in the sense that with knowledge and experience, you can minimize vulnerability.
yea i dont expect any one to coddle me or anyone else on this site... i just dont really like to see people stating the obvious when self control isnt as easy as snapping a finger.
"Self-control" is easier for some people than others for a HOST of very individual biological and psychological and environmental reasons. Have a problem with blood sugar, PCOS, thyroid, whatever? It's going to be different for you, and it's only by learning different practical strategies that "self-control" is going to be possible.
Great thoughts & links, @jgnatca0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
Again, what's your alternative?not sure if its because I got 3 hours of sleep due to a sewage like breaking under my house haha buuut. I find the responses of "will power" and "self control" so aggravating. So when you gained weight you activly chose to over eat and gain weight. Those things are learned over time after trial and error of adapting CICO. Ive said it before, if it were as easy as self control then id just about assume no one on the planet would ever gain weight or fall victim to bad choices.
Same here, I find that idea super annoying and offensive. Calorie counting isn't a natural state, tons of reasons people gain that have nothing to do with them being "weak". Eating without thinking and without knowledge is enough 99% of the time in our society.
Yes to bolded, it just takes a while to figure out which macros to get to satiety on X calorie target, & how to reach them with things you love.
when someone posts like man i couldnt walk away from that cheesecake.. thats a very honest a real life issue many of us have had. Just being like "your an adult have some self control" is very condescending to me.
instead of looking at "willpower" as a static thing, a mark of character & virtue, seeing it as a collection of learnable behaviours that anyone can access. see @jgnatca 's post0 -
When I first started out running, it had been so long I had forgotten how. I was on a scenic back trail and thankfully alone. I remember having read Born to Run by McDougall and how he described running as a "controlled fall". So I leaned forward as far as I could and took my first running step in decades. MFP pointed me to C25K so I was able to gradually build up my endurance over the next eight weeks. How thrilling to see progress over those weeks!
It is a problem to tell people to have more "willpower" or to "eat less", "lift heavy" and "move more". These are all true. But for the uninitiated, the first step seems daunting. How exactly do they get from where they are now to this magical place? For those of us who have gone before, we've got the memories, experience, and confidence to know that we can make it. We know the texture, form, and process of "eating less" and all the rest.
Fill in the gaps a little. Put a little more information between A and B. People need to know that this is achievable. Baby steps.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
Does being easier for some people than others rule out "self-control" as what needs to happen?not sure if its because I got 3 hours of sleep due to a sewage like breaking under my house haha buuut. I find the responses of "will power" and "self control" so aggravating. So when you gained weight you activly chose to over eat and gain weight. Those things are learned over time after trial and error of adapting CICO. Ive said it before, if it were as easy as self control then id just about assume no one on the planet would ever gain weight or fall victim to bad choices.
Yes, I actively chose to overeat. Nobody held my mouth open and shoved food down my gullet. I did it all myself. Not my finest accomplishment but I did it all myself. Whether or not I did it to purposely gain weight (i.e., actively choosing to gain weight) or not, I chose to eat enough to gain weight. I made bad choices but I was not a victim.
Not sure why it's so aggravating to read the truth.
oh the truth isnt aggravating, but telling someone to have self control is an obvious statement. It is not helpful when they clearly know they lack in that department. When im watching football i should probably have self control when drinking beer but I dont because I enjoy it. I obviously know i should... and telling me to have it doesnt help me in anyway. Im sure there are many people on this site that lack self control in one aspect or another in their life.
But what else are we supposed to do? The alternative is to say "You poor thing. You are a victim. Your overeating patterns and weight gain are due to no fault of your own. Attempting to control yourself is futile. A lifetime of obesity is inevitable. Give up now."
I don't think so, I think the 3rd option is recognizing reasons for overeating in the past and planning to prevent that happening in future. I don't think of it in terms of "self-control" at all. Or maybe, in the sense that with knowledge and experience, you can minimize vulnerability.
yea i dont expect any one to coddle me or anyone else on this site... i just dont really like to see people stating the obvious when self control isnt as easy as snapping a finger.
"Self-control" is easier for some people than others for a HOST of very individual biological and psychological and environmental reasons. Have a problem with blood sugar, PCOS, thyroid, whatever? It's going to be different for you, and it's only by learning different practical strategies that "self-control" is going to be possible.
Great thoughts & links, @jgnatca
"Planning " is a word & framework I prefer. For me the idea of "self-control" is loaded with a whack of moral baggage & judgement I personally find unhelpful. Some people do find it helpful & empowering, they should use that idea. But they shouldn't impose it on others if it's not helpful for them0 -
when i gained some weight over the last few years, i just did not really care one way or another about it! self control was just not needed in that department at the time....when i started to care about my health & extra weight, self control did indeed play a big role in me fulfilling my original goal in three months..without self control, i would of easily eaten and enjoyed ALL the NY cheesecake slices, chocolate crossaints and the yummy dark chocolate fudge that's been in my freezer since day one..
your 'know you should stop but, don't because you enjoy it', is a choice..if you really wanted to stop, you would!
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How do you distinguish the implementation of "planning" from the implementation of "self-control"?DeguelloTex wrote: »
Does being easier for some people than others rule out "self-control" as what needs to happen?not sure if its because I got 3 hours of sleep due to a sewage like breaking under my house haha buuut. I find the responses of "will power" and "self control" so aggravating. So when you gained weight you activly chose to over eat and gain weight. Those things are learned over time after trial and error of adapting CICO. Ive said it before, if it were as easy as self control then id just about assume no one on the planet would ever gain weight or fall victim to bad choices.
Yes, I actively chose to overeat. Nobody held my mouth open and shoved food down my gullet. I did it all myself. Not my finest accomplishment but I did it all myself. Whether or not I did it to purposely gain weight (i.e., actively choosing to gain weight) or not, I chose to eat enough to gain weight. I made bad choices but I was not a victim.
Not sure why it's so aggravating to read the truth.
oh the truth isnt aggravating, but telling someone to have self control is an obvious statement. It is not helpful when they clearly know they lack in that department. When im watching football i should probably have self control when drinking beer but I dont because I enjoy it. I obviously know i should... and telling me to have it doesnt help me in anyway. Im sure there are many people on this site that lack self control in one aspect or another in their life.
But what else are we supposed to do? The alternative is to say "You poor thing. You are a victim. Your overeating patterns and weight gain are due to no fault of your own. Attempting to control yourself is futile. A lifetime of obesity is inevitable. Give up now."
I don't think so, I think the 3rd option is recognizing reasons for overeating in the past and planning to prevent that happening in future. I don't think of it in terms of "self-control" at all. Or maybe, in the sense that with knowledge and experience, you can minimize vulnerability.
yea i dont expect any one to coddle me or anyone else on this site... i just dont really like to see people stating the obvious when self control isnt as easy as snapping a finger.
"Self-control" is easier for some people than others for a HOST of very individual biological and psychological and environmental reasons. Have a problem with blood sugar, PCOS, thyroid, whatever? It's going to be different for you, and it's only by learning different practical strategies that "self-control" is going to be possible.
Great thoughts & links, @jgnatca
"Planning " is a word & framework I prefer. For me the idea of "self-control" is loaded with a whack of moral baggage & judgement I personally find unhelpful. Some people do find it helpful & empowering, they should use that idea. But they shouldn't impose it on others if it's not helpful for them0 -
I dislike the concept of willpower when it comes to not eating too much of ubiquitous tempting food. We have only a certain amount of willpower, it gets depleted through the day, and it needs to be used economically. I like the idea of skillpower, the ability to build good habits, reduce exposure, and find ways to stay occupied doing things that not involve food.0
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not sure if its because I got 3 hours of sleep due to a sewage like breaking under my house haha buuut. I find the responses of "will power" and "self control" so aggravating. So when you gained weight you activly chose to over eat and gain weight. Those things are learned over time after trial and error of adapting CICO. Ive said it before, if it were as easy as self control then id just about assume no one on the planet would ever gain weight or fall victim to bad choices.
Same here, I find that idea super annoying and offensive. Calorie counting isn't a natural state, tons of reasons people gain that have nothing to do with them being "weak". Eating without thinking and without knowledge is enough 99% of the time in our society.
Yes to bolded, it just takes a while to figure out which macros to get to satiety on X calorie target, & how to reach them with things you love.
when someone posts like man i couldnt walk away from that cheesecake.. thats a very honest a real life issue many of us have had. Just being like "your an adult have some self control" is very condescending to me.
I agree that "You're an adult; have some self control" is not useful. The poster sharing their own strategies for control would be useful. Like for me it wouldn't be making (or buying) a whole cheesecake but just buying one slice and probably splitting it if it has as much calories as I think it does.
For the guacamole, I would weigh out one serving of it and the chips and then put them away and out of sight. I would also have it with protein. And carrots and celery sticks. I will overeat foods like chips if I don't have enough protein and fiber to go with them.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
How do you distinguish the implementation of "planning" from the implementation of "self-control"?DeguelloTex wrote: »
Does being easier for some people than others rule out "self-control" as what needs to happen?not sure if its because I got 3 hours of sleep due to a sewage like breaking under my house haha buuut. I find the responses of "will power" and "self control" so aggravating. So when you gained weight you activly chose to over eat and gain weight. Those things are learned over time after trial and error of adapting CICO. Ive said it before, if it were as easy as self control then id just about assume no one on the planet would ever gain weight or fall victim to bad choices.
Yes, I actively chose to overeat. Nobody held my mouth open and shoved food down my gullet. I did it all myself. Not my finest accomplishment but I did it all myself. Whether or not I did it to purposely gain weight (i.e., actively choosing to gain weight) or not, I chose to eat enough to gain weight. I made bad choices but I was not a victim.
Not sure why it's so aggravating to read the truth.
oh the truth isnt aggravating, but telling someone to have self control is an obvious statement. It is not helpful when they clearly know they lack in that department. When im watching football i should probably have self control when drinking beer but I dont because I enjoy it. I obviously know i should... and telling me to have it doesnt help me in anyway. Im sure there are many people on this site that lack self control in one aspect or another in their life.
But what else are we supposed to do? The alternative is to say "You poor thing. You are a victim. Your overeating patterns and weight gain are due to no fault of your own. Attempting to control yourself is futile. A lifetime of obesity is inevitable. Give up now."
I don't think so, I think the 3rd option is recognizing reasons for overeating in the past and planning to prevent that happening in future. I don't think of it in terms of "self-control" at all. Or maybe, in the sense that with knowledge and experience, you can minimize vulnerability.
yea i dont expect any one to coddle me or anyone else on this site... i just dont really like to see people stating the obvious when self control isnt as easy as snapping a finger.
"Self-control" is easier for some people than others for a HOST of very individual biological and psychological and environmental reasons. Have a problem with blood sugar, PCOS, thyroid, whatever? It's going to be different for you, and it's only by learning different practical strategies that "self-control" is going to be possible.
Great thoughts & links, @jgnatca
"Planning " is a word & framework I prefer. For me the idea of "self-control" is loaded with a whack of moral baggage & judgement I personally find unhelpful. Some people do find it helpful & empowering, they should use that idea. But they shouldn't impose it on others if it's not helpful for them
like @kshama2001 & @jgnatca said - breaking down the "baby steps" that make "self-control" more achievable, vs. looking at it like some kind of inborn character trait.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
Does being easier for some people than others rule out "self-control" as what needs to happen?not sure if its because I got 3 hours of sleep due to a sewage like breaking under my house haha buuut. I find the responses of "will power" and "self control" so aggravating. So when you gained weight you activly chose to over eat and gain weight. Those things are learned over time after trial and error of adapting CICO. Ive said it before, if it were as easy as self control then id just about assume no one on the planet would ever gain weight or fall victim to bad choices.
Yes, I actively chose to overeat. Nobody held my mouth open and shoved food down my gullet. I did it all myself. Not my finest accomplishment but I did it all myself. Whether or not I did it to purposely gain weight (i.e., actively choosing to gain weight) or not, I chose to eat enough to gain weight. I made bad choices but I was not a victim.
Not sure why it's so aggravating to read the truth.
oh the truth isnt aggravating, but telling someone to have self control is an obvious statement. It is not helpful when they clearly know they lack in that department. When im watching football i should probably have self control when drinking beer but I dont because I enjoy it. I obviously know i should... and telling me to have it doesnt help me in anyway. Im sure there are many people on this site that lack self control in one aspect or another in their life.
But what else are we supposed to do? The alternative is to say "You poor thing. You are a victim. Your overeating patterns and weight gain are due to no fault of your own. Attempting to control yourself is futile. A lifetime of obesity is inevitable. Give up now."
I don't think so, I think the 3rd option is recognizing reasons for overeating in the past and planning to prevent that happening in future. I don't think of it in terms of "self-control" at all. Or maybe, in the sense that with knowledge and experience, you can minimize vulnerability.
yea i dont expect any one to coddle me or anyone else on this site... i just dont really like to see people stating the obvious when self control isnt as easy as snapping a finger.
"Self-control" is easier for some people than others for a HOST of very individual biological and psychological and environmental reasons. Have a problem with blood sugar, PCOS, thyroid, whatever? It's going to be different for you, and it's only by learning different practical strategies that "self-control" is going to be possible.
Great thoughts & links, @jgnatca
"Planning " is a word & framework I prefer. For me the idea of "self-control" is loaded with a whack of moral baggage & judgement I personally find unhelpful. Some people do find it helpful & empowering, they should use that idea. But they shouldn't impose it on others if it's not helpful for them
I meal plan and prelog everything. I still have to exercise self-control when someone offers me something or have a hankering for something that I haven't planned for. Its all connected.0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »I dislike the concept of willpower when it comes to not eating too much of ubiquitous tempting food. We have only a certain amount of willpower, it gets depleted through the day, and it needs to be used economically. I like the idea of skillpower, the ability to build good habits, reduce exposure, and find ways to stay occupied doing things that not involve food.
Woot @kommodevaran! I love "skillpower"!0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »I dislike the concept of willpower when it comes to not eating too much of ubiquitous tempting food. We have only a certain amount of willpower, it gets depleted through the day, and it needs to be used economically. I like the idea of skillpower, the ability to build good habits, reduce exposure, and find ways to stay occupied doing things that not involve food.
Skillpower; love it.0 -
Doesn't that kind of beg the question, though? I mean, yeah, if your premise is that there isn't enough willpower to make it through the day then, yeah, there isn't enough willpower to make it through the day.kommodevaran wrote: »I dislike the concept of willpower when it comes to not eating too much of ubiquitous tempting food. We have only a certain amount of willpower, it gets depleted through the day, and it needs to be used economically. I like the idea of skillpower, the ability to build good habits, reduce exposure, and find ways to stay occupied doing things that not involve food.
Even presuming that's true, though, it doesn't mean that willpower isn't the answer, it just means that you want to try to organize your environment such that whatever amount of willpower you have is sufficient, right? If you want to call that "skillpower," whatever, but doesn't it ultimately come down to making your willpower last long enough?0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »I dislike the concept of willpower when it comes to not eating too much of ubiquitous tempting food. We have only a certain amount of willpower, it gets depleted through the day, and it needs to be used economically. I like the idea of skillpower, the ability to build good habits, reduce exposure, and find ways to stay occupied doing things that not involve food.
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