1 stone to loose by Feb the 1st.
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bethclabburn wrote: »So let me get this straight, all you people that probably don't have any qualifications (correct me if I'm wrong) are telling this girl to ignore her doctor?
Great advice folks.
We aren't giving advice as professionals but her Doctor is, that's the difference. We do however provide facts, that professionals have disclosed to us; via links to peer reviewed studies & our own experiences, which're also facts.0 -
bethclabburn wrote: »bethclabburn wrote: »So let me get this straight, all you people that probably don't have any qualifications (correct me if I'm wrong) are telling this girl to ignore her doctor?
Great advice folks.
No, all of these people who probably have more qualifications and experience specifically in nutrition and weightloss than a GP are advising her not to follow that plan.
See, there's a difference
How do they have more qualifications than a GP?
We've chosen to educate ourselves, via other professional's peer reviewed studies & then apply them, to ourselves & have experienced, the results; to be factual. It's obvious that her Doctor, hasn't educated herself; beyond her requirements.0 -
OP I truly don't understand you in this thread. On one hand you say you've been successfully losing a considerable amount of weight, slowly and steadily, all this time, and you know that slow and steady rate of loss is what gives long term sustainable results.
But your OP indicates that you want to lose 14 lbs very rapidly, too rapidly in fact, to be attainable.
People pointed out why your goal was a little too ambitious. They weren't doing so to make you feel badly, they were trying to show you why having unrealistic expectations can set you up for disappointment and also, just some really unhealthy practices.
You got very upset and defensive.
When you post about your doctor though, you say he/she is an idiot and you don't think that what he/she prescribed was reasonable because it is a VLCD and you would lose weight at too fast of a rate.
That's EXACTLY what people were pointing out about your plan to lose 1 stone in 3 weeks.
So where is the disconnect?
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bethclabburn wrote: »Wow I'm not arguing with you all.
I disagree completely.
Of course I would take the advice of a qualified doctor over people that google.
There's a difference between people who go and study for 4/5 years and people who go and look on Google and then think they are just as qualified.
I believe I am initialed to my own option here.
You'd all tell me my diet is too low and wrong etc. But I feel healthier, fitter, I've lost weight, my skin and hair is much better.
However that's the problem, her Doctor obviously isn't qualified; to give this advice. Would you have a Dentist act as your OBGYN?. Sure these both involve Doctors but they're educated differently, to deal with different parts of the body. They aren't qualified to do each other's job. We're also experienced by, the results of applying; what we've learned. So this is how we know that something is fact, without being formally educated. If someone did a crash diet & lost their hair because of it. I believe that qualifies them, to advise other's; of this risk. How then is that person, that isn't a Doctor not qualified to inform someone that they'll lose their hair; when they know from the experience themselves? That'd be like me telling you, that because you aren't an OBGYN; that you aren't qualified to explain what a menstrual cycle is even though you're a woman & most likely experience having them.0 -
bethclabburn wrote: »Technically I am right as they have the qualification. The all important piece of paper. In a job world it's qualifications first... That's what I was always told anyways.
What does it matter what I'm eating a day?
There're many fields of medicine, her Doctor is obviously not qualified; in dietetics. Just like a Dentist isn't qualified to be an OBGYN.0 -
bethclabburn wrote: »Ok you are all correct I apologise to you all. Obviously I didn't realise you are all highly qualified in nutrition...
When I return to the UK I'll be asking my GP about all this.
I've come to realise the forums are only helpful if it's what you believe in and any other way is wrong. You're all quite quick to judge and tell someone their goals are wrong.
This app is great for logging it's a shame I can't say the same for the 'support' from the community.
Ask a Dietitian instead.0 -
OP you are similar to me. I'm currently 145kg and need to lose 60kg. My daily calorific intake is ~ 1800 cals. I do a 3 hour workout every weekday in the gym. My weight loss goal is 0.75kg to 1kg per week.
As others have stated I think your weight loss goal is unachievable and unhealthy. I actually write on my calendar my end of month weight loss goal which is 3kg from the start of month weight.
A few tips:
Are you weighing and logging all your food with MFP?
Cardiovascular machines are known to grossly over exaggerate calories burnt. Have you thought about buying a heart rate monitor or activity tracker such as Fitbit?
I'm from the UK too so please add me as a friend if you want some moral support.0 -
Right, just because this is coming up so much in this thread and frankly it's just factually incorrect, I'd like to ask how many people out there have gone through medical school, come from a medical family or move in scientific circles?
This is not a trick question, to insult anyone or to sound pretentious but merely because all this misinformation about doctors not knowing anything about nutrition would be funny if it wasn't so wrong.
When you study medicine, you do not just do credit courses or just one term/semester courses in something like nutrition like you would saying a semester in medieval literature in a English literature course or, as an example used above, take a semester course in civil war as part of a communications or history degree.
Throughout your studies (and training) the way doctors learn and understand nutrition is through biochemistry, organic chemistry, how the body processes foods, what macro and micro nutrients are needed which also feeds into the effects on physiology and anatomy just on a base level. There's no set course and suggesting otherwise is ridiculous.
Not all doctors are morons when it comes to nutrition. They're not.
Now of course there are doctors out there, most commonly GPs, who do what their title says "general practice" and therefore after dealing with blanket diagnosis and general ailments can therefore lead to some generalisation and therefore losing sharpness in certain areas. And yes some are out of touch and when it comes to not just nutrition, some could sharpen up. Some are just *kitten* - like any percentage of people in any job field.
Yes there are people who have focused or are nutritional medicine specialists and nutritionists.
But can we stop with blanket statements about ALL doctors somehow being useless at nutrition because they all aren't.
Where do you think the nutritional specialists get their information and update their practices often? It's doctors and the scientists that apply their knowledge to research and their solid and long grounding in understanding the body to a cellular basis that allows them to do all those papers that we cite and to follow nutritionists that also guide us.0 -
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Right, just because this is coming up so much in this thread and frankly it's just factually incorrect, I'd like to ask how many people out there have gone through medical school, come from a medical family or move in scientific circles?
This is not a trick question, to insult anyone or to sound pretentious but merely because all this misinformation about doctors not knowing anything about nutrition would be funny if it wasn't so wrong.
When you study medicine, you do not just do credit courses or just one term/semester courses in something like nutrition like you would saying a semester in medieval literature in a English literature course or, as an example used above, take a semester course in civil war as part of a communications or history degree.
Throughout your studies (and training) the way doctors learn and understand nutrition is through biochemistry, organic chemistry, how the body processes foods, what macro and micro nutrients are needed which also feeds into the effects on physiology and anatomy just on a base level. There's no set course and suggesting otherwise is ridiculous.
Not all doctors are morons when it comes to nutrition. They're not.
Now of course there are doctors out there, most commonly GPs, who do what their title says "general practice" and therefore after dealing with blanket diagnosis and general ailments can therefore lead to some generalisation and therefore losing sharpness in certain areas. And yes some are out of touch and when it comes to not just nutrition, some could sharpen up. Some are just *kitten* - like any percentage of people in any job field.
Yes there are people who have focused or are nutritional medicine specialists and nutritionists.
But can we stop with blanket statements about ALL doctors somehow being useless at nutrition because they all aren't.
Where do you think the nutritional specialists get their information and update their practices often? It's doctors and the scientists that apply their knowledge to research and their solid and long grounding in understanding the body to a cellular basis that allows them to do all those papers that we cite and to follow nutritionists that also guide us.
I review research projects at an institution with a medical schools which includes resident projects, med student projects, and faculty projects (plus industry written studies), I have a PhD that I received while working in a lab in a medical school, and most of my friends have advanced degrees, and several are MDs and DDSs.
You can't say all are anything. I've seen a lot of trends, but it doesn't apply to everyone. A lot of doctors are clueless about just about anything that isn't their specialty. A lot of med students lack common sense. Full stop. All of them? Heck no. Can I extrapolate that doctors therefore lack common sense? Nope. But they do spend a lot of time in their specialty. And many of them jump on weird dietary bandwagons.
As for people I actually talk to about what they know and don't know? They refuse to give any kind of medical advice outside of their specialty (including dietary questions) because they fully admit that they don't know enough about it to make recommendations.0 -
juggernaut1974 wrote: »
I didn't say they weren't. I wasn't referring to that doctor as being a good one although I acknowledge that was what kicked off this back and forth spiralling into how doctors don't study nutrition at all!
I've personally had a couple of terrible GPs before when it came to nutrition but not all of them are like that. I've had absolutely terrible nutritionists too that have had a dozen "qualifications" too!0 -
The doctor really has nothing to do with this thread. OP asked about a challenge she is taking on herself, did not claim it was based on medical advice, and said she thinks the diet recommended is silly.
Also, the diet doesn't look at all like a sensible medically-recommended one, so that a hypothetical doctor might be able to do one (although normal course would be to refer to a dietitian) is rather meaningless. Among other things, the diet doesn't say anything about portions, is quite unclear as to whether you are supposed to eat the tuna or egg salad in a sandwich or with mayo (both things people are likely to do that would affect calories) or so on, and doesn't seem well-developed to cover nutritional needs or satiety issues that many losing weight have (i.e., the breakfast would work better for the average person with more protein).
Also, a dietitian would presumably work with OP to understand her calorie needs, her particular challenges, and the food she likes. If some doctor gave me a list like the one shared I'd get a new doctor, but I also wouldn't follow it since I strongly dislike cold cereal and canned tuna, blech. And if the doctor knew me at all he or she would know my current diet is fine (nutritionally better than the one recommended, IMO), and indeed when I went to a doctor when overweight she asked me what I was doing, how I ate and exercised, what my results were, etc. -- all things that seem much more reasonable. So if I were OP, those are things I'd expect.
But of course this thread isn't about her doctor's advice. She didn't say she was following that diet.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »The doctor really has nothing to do with this thread. OP asked about a challenge she is taking on herself, did not claim it was based on medical advice, and said she thinks the diet recommended is silly.
Also, the diet doesn't look at all like a sensible medically-recommended one, so that a hypothetical doctor might be able to do one (although normal course would be to refer to a dietitian) is rather meaningless. Among other things, the diet doesn't say anything about portions, is quite unclear as to whether you are supposed to eat the tuna or egg salad in a sandwich or with mayo (both things people are likely to do that would affect calories) or so on, and doesn't seem well-developed to cover nutritional needs or satiety issues that many losing weight have (i.e., the breakfast would work better for the average person with more protein).
Also, a dietitian would presumably work with OP to understand her calorie needs, her particular challenges, and the food she likes. If some doctor gave me a list like the one shared I'd get a new doctor, but I also wouldn't follow it since I strongly dislike cold cereal and canned tuna, blech. And if the doctor knew me at all he or she would know my current diet is fine (nutritionally better than the one recommended, IMO), and indeed when I went to a doctor when overweight she asked me what I was doing, how I ate and exercised, what my results were, etc. -- all things that seem much more reasonable. So if I were OP, those are things I'd expect.
But of course this thread isn't about her doctor's advice. She didn't say she was following that diet.
I know it doesn't. That's what I agree with.
But there's loads of back and forth on the thread about them hence why after how many comments I decided to wade in to just clear up the inaccuracies in what doctors learn when you study to be a doctor.0 -
Right, just because this is coming up so much in this thread and frankly it's just factually incorrect, I'd like to ask how many people out there have gone through medical school, come from a medical family or move in scientific circles?
This is not a trick question, to insult anyone or to sound pretentious but merely because all this misinformation about doctors not knowing anything about nutrition would be funny if it wasn't so wrong.
When you study medicine, you do not just do credit courses or just one term/semester courses in something like nutrition like you would saying a semester in medieval literature in a English literature course or, as an example used above, take a semester course in civil war as part of a communications or history degree.
Throughout your studies (and training) the way doctors learn and understand nutrition is through biochemistry, organic chemistry, how the body processes foods, what macro and micro nutrients are needed which also feeds into the effects on physiology and anatomy just on a base level. There's no set course and suggesting otherwise is ridiculous.
Not all doctors are morons when it comes to nutrition. They're not.
Now of course there are doctors out there, most commonly GPs, who do what their title says "general practice" and therefore after dealing with blanket diagnosis and general ailments can therefore lead to some generalisation and therefore losing sharpness in certain areas. And yes some are out of touch and when it comes to not just nutrition, some could sharpen up. Some are just *kitten* - like any percentage of people in any job field.
Yes there are people who have focused or are nutritional medicine specialists and nutritionists.
But can we stop with blanket statements about ALL doctors somehow being useless at nutrition because they all aren't.
Where do you think the nutritional specialists get their information and update their practices often? It's doctors and the scientists that apply their knowledge to research and their solid and long grounding in understanding the body to a cellular basis that allows them to do all those papers that we cite and to follow nutritionists that also guide us.
Nobody said the bold.
We all basically agree with the italics, thus why many of us were making the point not to take a GP's advice on a meal plan with 100% faith, as the one poster was trying to say she should....especially that one.0 -
Right, just because this is coming up so much in this thread and frankly it's just factually incorrect, I'd like to ask how many people out there have gone through medical school, come from a medical family or move in scientific circles?
This is not a trick question, to insult anyone or to sound pretentious but merely because all this misinformation about doctors not knowing anything about nutrition would be funny if it wasn't so wrong.
When you study medicine, you do not just do credit courses or just one term/semester courses in something like nutrition like you would saying a semester in medieval literature in a English literature course or, as an example used above, take a semester course in civil war as part of a communications or history degree.
Throughout your studies (and training) the way doctors learn and understand nutrition is through biochemistry, organic chemistry, how the body processes foods, what macro and micro nutrients are needed which also feeds into the effects on physiology and anatomy just on a base level. There's no set course and suggesting otherwise is ridiculous.
Not all doctors are morons when it comes to nutrition. They're not.
Now of course there are doctors out there, most commonly GPs, who do what their title says "general practice" and therefore after dealing with blanket diagnosis and general ailments can therefore lead to some generalisation and therefore losing sharpness in certain areas. And yes some are out of touch and when it comes to not just nutrition, some could sharpen up. Some are just *kitten* - like any percentage of people in any job field.
Yes there are people who have focused or are nutritional medicine specialists and nutritionists.
But can we stop with blanket statements about ALL doctors somehow being useless at nutrition because they all aren't.
Where do you think the nutritional specialists get their information and update their practices often? It's doctors and the scientists that apply their knowledge to research and their solid and long grounding in understanding the body to a cellular basis that allows them to do all those papers that we cite and to follow nutritionists that also guide us.
That's a lot of words defending something that was never said. Most, if not all, have used the term GP specifically.0 -
I did the South Beach Diet once about 12 years ago. For two weeks you eat nothing but protein and vegetables. Then you can add back in fruit and whole grains. I lost weight rapidly, I think I lost like 15lbs in the first two weeks. I was constantly starving during the first weeks. I had a really hard time with it. I survived by eating vegetables non stop, I kept a bag of baby carrots on my desk, and sheer force of will.
I was having severe skin problems, and after seeing GPs for months, and using ointments and creams like crazy to no avail, I went to a Naturopath. The Naturopath I went to suggested I eat a low glycemic diet, and see if that helped. It cleared up my skin problems.
I wouldn't do it again if I didn't have to. I was miserable.0 -
Right, just because this is coming up so much in this thread and frankly it's just factually incorrect, I'd like to ask how many people out there have gone through medical school, come from a medical family or move in scientific circles?
This is not a trick question, to insult anyone or to sound pretentious but merely because all this misinformation about doctors not knowing anything about nutrition would be funny if it wasn't so wrong.
When you study medicine, you do not just do credit courses or just one term/semester courses in something like nutrition like you would saying a semester in medieval literature in a English literature course or, as an example used above, take a semester course in civil war as part of a communications or history degree.
Throughout your studies (and training) the way doctors learn and understand nutrition is through biochemistry, organic chemistry, how the body processes foods, what macro and micro nutrients are needed which also feeds into the effects on physiology and anatomy just on a base level. There's no set course and suggesting otherwise is ridiculous.
Not all doctors are morons when it comes to nutrition. They're not.
Now of course there are doctors out there, most commonly GPs, who do what their title says "general practice" and therefore after dealing with blanket diagnosis and general ailments can therefore lead to some generalisation and therefore losing sharpness in certain areas. And yes some are out of touch and when it comes to not just nutrition, some could sharpen up. Some are just *kitten* - like any percentage of people in any job field.
Yes there are people who have focused or are nutritional medicine specialists and nutritionists.
But can we stop with blanket statements about ALL doctors somehow being useless at nutrition because they all aren't.
Where do you think the nutritional specialists get their information and update their practices often? It's doctors and the scientists that apply their knowledge to research and their solid and long grounding in understanding the body to a cellular basis that allows them to do all those papers that we cite and to follow nutritionists that also guide us.
That's a lot of words defending something that was never said. Most, if not all, have used the term GP specifically.
Again, the back and forth through the threads arguing that doctors do a semester course in nutrition and don't know much about it is on this thread several times.0 -
bethclabburn wrote: »Wow I'm not arguing with you all.
I disagree completely.
Of course I would take the advice of a qualified doctor over people that google.
There's a difference between people who go and study for 4/5 years and people who go and look on Google and then think they are just as qualified.
I believe I am initialed to my own option here.
You'd all tell me my diet is too low and wrong etc. But I feel healthier, fitter, I've lost weight, my skin and hair is much better.
The last two sentences are why we don't agree with you.0 -
Slimdownmb wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Slimdownmb wrote: »So dissapointed right now,
There are carbs in veg - obviously i ment unhealthy starchy processed carbs.
How about i don't bother at all. I wouldn't set myself this goal if i think think i could achieve it, keep it off and do it in a safe and enjoyable way.
I fail to see how a deficit of 2000 kcal every day is in any way enjoyable or safe.
So are you suggesting i eat 2000 calories every single day?
If so - why am i on mfp, since even they are suggesting 1580...
I'm more interested in the stuff i put in my body is clean and healthy, reducing carbs and sugar, increasing exercise and water intake. There is nothing wrong with it i've been doing this for the past 6 weeks - the only difference in what i want to do now is up my exercise and drop my calories slightly for 3 and half weeks.
Everyone here is so quick to criticize. All i was looking for was some hints and tips and everyones just made me feel *kitten* about it. So cheers guys thanks for the support.
I won't be quick to criticize. I think the goal is a stretch, 10 pounds is more realistic. I've got 4 stone to lose myself and my January goal is 10 pounds (I know water will be part of it) Been down the road before I need to lose what i lost previously, and then keep it off - life threw me some curve-balls so i lost focus)
That said I think for one month if you set yourself a stretch (and have a minimum you'll be happy with) go for it. you have a lot to lose so kick starting with a big initial loss should give you some enthusiasm. just don't be wildly disappointed if you don't hit the stretch goal. last time it took me about 7 months to lose 45 pounds and i was very focused. there were weeks i didn't lose and I gained. thing is I still lost inches and that is as much of the goal as weight. Good luck0 -
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1088600/dear-mean-people-of-mfp#latest
Seems that someone in this thread needs to read this.0
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