If calories in-calories out is immutable...
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Not claiming that I am never sure when i overeat, but I often eat more than I think I have.
Honestly, I have trouble feeling "full". logging gives me an idea of when to stop.
I don't know about the IF method or why the OP is having trouble.0 -
The reason why it can be hard to lose weight after a few weeks of your diet could be because you are losing fat which is great and your gaining muscle. Which we all know weighs more than fat so it may seem on the scales that you are gaining body fat or it staying the same but in reality your gaining muscle. So my suggestion is to avoid using the scales as much as you can just focus on how you look in the mirror you must be looking more toned right or noticed losing more belly fat? There's proof right there!0
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robertw486 wrote: »robertw486 wrote: »WalkingAlong wrote: »You don't NEED a food scale or NEED to log daily. There is not only one way to diet. It sounds like you're roughly on Krista Varady's ADF plan. On that you can eat freely on your non-fast days (though logging them is fine, too). A pound a week is probably a reasonable expectation. Good luck!
Agreed. You actually don't need to log ever. Most people have the ability to know when they are eating too much, they just ignore it. A human scale can work for weight loss just fine if used properly.
Looking at labels or logging food helps people understand the calorie dense stuff, the nutritional content, etc, but in the end being able to apply it is more important. A person could log everything and struggle if they don't figure out what keeps them full, gives them more energy, and gets them through the day.
am I unusual? I am here because I can't gauge when I am done eating for the day.
That depends. Are you claiming that you eat too much and never have any idea you've eaten too much? I'm not claiming we can all eat all we want and our body will stop us. I'm stating that most people at some level do know they are eating beyond what they should. I've heard people grab food stating things like "I really shouldn't eat this" etc, but they still do.
And if logging works then people should go for it. If logging, exercise, weighing food and yoga works they should go for that. But if the IF methods actually work for some people, no reason they shouldn't do it. I know a lot of people that don't overeat, and they all go about it different ways. The "easiest" way will vary by person and what works for them, and that's really my point. I would say most likely the people that find weight control the easiest are those that would be few and far between on this web site. They hop on a scale now and then, or notice when their clothes are snug, and eat less and/or move more.
I think that's a socially self-deprecating comment meant to instil a sense of camaraderie rather than a true acknowledgement of I'm eating too much.
There are people who manage their weight effortlessly but I would warrant the vast majority who turn to a calorie counting are not amongst them and those who turn to IF programmes aren't either hence the marketing obfuscation of eat what you want on non-fast days when actually when you read the programme/book properly it's "eat what you want to your maintenance level" is a sales tactic rather than an actuality for those with weight issues who simply don't want to give up their eating lifestyle
And I get it eating is an extremely pleasant, emotionally rewarding and social activity. It's tough to control it
My original example might well be just a comment that many make in a social setting. But as another example, does any right minded person buy larger clothes and not realize they are gaining weight? Or get on a scale, and not realize the trend is going up? I don't think so. I think many just don't worry about it until they reach a point where they are ready to change it.
As for the obfuscation in the diet industry, well that's just about everything in the diet industry these days. It's an unfortunate reality of modern day greed and it will probably never be stopped in our lifetimes.
I just think that the tools a person chooses to use or not use will vary quite a bit. I've seen all the "returning" people after the start of the year, so this method didn't work for them long term. But I hope there are people that never have to return because they found a way that did work for them long term. And really, I think if people apply what they learn, most people have a lot of options to control weight. They just pick one and stick with it, much like other things we do as humans.
Though I eat on what some would call a daily IF pattern, eating very few calories through the day and then consuming most of them at night, I can see both up and down sides to the alternate day thing. For me personally I don't think it would work, as the low calorie days would mess with my workout recovery and such, and probably leave me really hungry after a hard workout. But I seriously doubt I could eat at my TDEE x2 -500 on the eating day. I have a lot of days where I don't even want to eat back my exercise calories except for the nutritional content.
I'm just surprised that so many people have dismissed it without trying it. I've seen all kinds of "tricks" people use that work for them. This method of IF might work for some, and might even make life easier.0 -
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'cause *kitten* happens.
but not every hour (hopefully!!)
you consume food & water. NOTE: 1 cup of water = 1/2 pound
it takes time to go thru your digestive track.
you don't pee / poop as soon as you eat (obviously).
nor does it happen as soon as you exercise.
depending how quickly / slowly it goes thru your system, your weight flectuates.
did you drink 8 ounces of water, but didn't pee it out ? there's 1/2 pound.
didn't poop yet... there's some weight.
ate a high sodium meal... you'll retain water (ie weight) for a day or two.
did you slack off on exercise?
did your hormones flexiate?
strees level varies?
quality of sleep varies /
the list goes on and on.
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btw ~ did you consider your weight stays the same but you've lost INCHES (ie look more slender)
because you've lost some fat and gain muscle (which is denser).
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robertw486 wrote: »robertw486 wrote: »robertw486 wrote: »WalkingAlong wrote: »You don't NEED a food scale or NEED to log daily. There is not only one way to diet. It sounds like you're roughly on Krista Varady's ADF plan. On that you can eat freely on your non-fast days (though logging them is fine, too). A pound a week is probably a reasonable expectation. Good luck!
Agreed. You actually don't need to log ever. Most people have the ability to know when they are eating too much, they just ignore it. A human scale can work for weight loss just fine if used properly.
Looking at labels or logging food helps people understand the calorie dense stuff, the nutritional content, etc, but in the end being able to apply it is more important. A person could log everything and struggle if they don't figure out what keeps them full, gives them more energy, and gets them through the day.
am I unusual? I am here because I can't gauge when I am done eating for the day.
That depends. Are you claiming that you eat too much and never have any idea you've eaten too much? I'm not claiming we can all eat all we want and our body will stop us. I'm stating that most people at some level do know they are eating beyond what they should. I've heard people grab food stating things like "I really shouldn't eat this" etc, but they still do.
And if logging works then people should go for it. If logging, exercise, weighing food and yoga works they should go for that. But if the IF methods actually work for some people, no reason they shouldn't do it. I know a lot of people that don't overeat, and they all go about it different ways. The "easiest" way will vary by person and what works for them, and that's really my point. I would say most likely the people that find weight control the easiest are those that would be few and far between on this web site. They hop on a scale now and then, or notice when their clothes are snug, and eat less and/or move more.
I think that's a socially self-deprecating comment meant to instil a sense of camaraderie rather than a true acknowledgement of I'm eating too much.
There are people who manage their weight effortlessly but I would warrant the vast majority who turn to a calorie counting are not amongst them and those who turn to IF programmes aren't either hence the marketing obfuscation of eat what you want on non-fast days when actually when you read the programme/book properly it's "eat what you want to your maintenance level" is a sales tactic rather than an actuality for those with weight issues who simply don't want to give up their eating lifestyle
And I get it eating is an extremely pleasant, emotionally rewarding and social activity. It's tough to control it
My original example might well be just a comment that many make in a social setting. But as another example, does any right minded person buy larger clothes and not realize they are gaining weight? Or get on a scale, and not realize the trend is going up? I don't think so. I think many just don't worry about it until they reach a point where they are ready to change it.
yes re larger sizes! it's easy enough when even now I can be a UK 8 to 12 within the same store (US4 to 8) and that is different sizing from 20 years ago
As for the obfuscation in the diet industry, well that's just about everything in the diet industry these days. It's an unfortunate reality of modern day greed and it will probably never be stopped in our lifetimes.
I just think that the tools a person chooses to use or not use will vary quite a bit. I've seen all the "returning" people after the start of the year, so this method didn't work for them long term. But I hope there are people that never have to return because they found a way that did work for them long term. And really, I think if people apply what they learn, most people have a lot of options to control weight. They just pick one and stick with it, much like other things we do as humans.
if the method worked the issue is returning to what didn't work before surely. If you don't stop you shouldn't need to return. It's the i will just fix this then return to "normal" compared to this is how I live that's the difference between maintaining and not
Though I eat on what some would call a daily IF pattern, eating very few calories through the day and then consuming most of them at night, I can see both up and down sides to the alternate day thing. For me personally I don't think it would work, as the low calorie days would mess with my workout recovery and such, and probably leave me really hungry after a hard workout. But I seriously doubt I could eat at my TDEE x2 -500 on the eating day. I have a lot of days where I don't even want to eat back my exercise calories except for the nutritional content.
I did IF ..it worked! short term though cos I returned to normal patterns and hadn't learned much ...
I'm just surprised that so many people have dismissed it without trying it. I've seen all kinds of "tricks" people use that work for them. This method of IF might work for some, and might even make life easier
where do you see dismissal of the concept? I must have missed that. I just saw the that's not how IF works comments
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BeckyyyXxxx486 wrote: »The reason why it can be hard to lose weight after a few weeks of your diet could be because you are losing fat which is great and your gaining muscle. Which we all know weighs more than fat so it may seem on the scales that you are gaining body fat or it staying the same but in reality your gaining muscle. So my suggestion is to avoid using the scales as much as you can just focus on how you look in the mirror you must be looking more toned right or noticed losing more belly fat? There's proof right there!
No sweetie ..it can't ..not ever
Gaining muscle in defecit is possible but it takes effort with a progressive resistance programme and good protein intake, even then it won't mask scale weight loss because it's a slow slow process0 -
BeckyyyXxxx486 wrote: »The reason why it can be hard to lose weight after a few weeks of your diet could be because you are losing fat which is great and your gaining muscle. Which we all know weighs more than fat so it may seem on the scales that you are gaining body fat or it staying the same but in reality your gaining muscle. So my suggestion is to avoid using the scales as much as you can just focus on how you look in the mirror you must be looking more toned right or noticed losing more belly fat? There's proof right there!
No. Unless she is spending hours at the gym and not cutting down calories, no. And probably for a woman, steroids would be needed, since we are talking about a few weeks.0 -
WalkingAlong wrote: »
But you are male and if you eat 2500-2800 (and lose weight?) you must either be very large, very active or both. I don't think your own intake is applicable to anyone not similar in gender, age, size and activity level._Terrapin_ wrote: »_Terrapin_ wrote: »JustMissTracy wrote: »vivmom2014 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »vivmom2014 wrote: »The Krista Varady plan:
But in the Every-Other-Day Diet, you’ll find only one rule: eat no more than 500 calories on Diet Day, eat anything you want and as much as you want on Feast Day, and alternate those two days. That’s it! No counting calories, carbs, fat or protein. No avoiding any particular food; all foods are allowed. There are no complex meal preparations and plans.
In the Every-Other-Day Diet, you’ll unlock the secret to rapid and sustained weight loss and never endure every dieter’s nightmare: daily deprivation. Alternating between “Feast” days in which you eat whatever you want, and “Diet” day in which you eat 500 calories, you’ll lose: pounds, belly fat—and improve your health. Without giving up the foods you love.
I don't understand how this diet would work. (?)
I don't understand how, if you don't count calories, you know that you're only taking in 500 on your fast days, and how you know you aren't wiping out your deficit on the non fast days?
Plus, and I know this is beside the point, what would a 500 calorie day look like? How could it include any exercise? It sounds like punishment.
I agree completely.
For my 500 calorie days I'm consuming water, black coffee or hot tea until around noon. I have a 100 or 150 calorie protein shake or smoothie for lunch. When I get home from work (6pm) I have a spinach salad with tuna, 2 tbs of hummus and a drizzle of balsamic vinegar (350-400 calories depending on the amount of tuna and hummus). Hot tea in between when I feel hungry.
I haven't incorporated exercise. Yet. Unfortunately I probably won't until Feb, due to a job change to another city and my existing gym membership is geographically challenging now.
So, over 90 days how many would be 500? And no, you don't need to weigh your food for weight loss. Have you attempted any other diets in the past?
Well, half--45, as long as I stick with it.
Well, if I had 1500 every other day I'd fail. I'd easily fail. If you aren't exercising maybe it would be doable. I was attempting 1500 once a week and it was tough. My average day is 2500-2800 depending on activity. Any other diets you've attempted since you've been on MFP?
Exactly why alternate day fasting would not work for me. Because I am active.
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WalkingAlong wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »WalkingAlong wrote: »
But you are male and if you eat 2500-2800 (and lose weight?) you must either be very large, very active or both. I don't think your own intake is applicable to anyone not similar in gender, age, size and activity level._Terrapin_ wrote: »_Terrapin_ wrote: »JustMissTracy wrote: »vivmom2014 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »vivmom2014 wrote: »The Krista Varady plan:
But in the Every-Other-Day Diet, you’ll find only one rule: eat no more than 500 calories on Diet Day, eat anything you want and as much as you want on Feast Day, and alternate those two days. That’s it! No counting calories, carbs, fat or protein. No avoiding any particular food; all foods are allowed. There are no complex meal preparations and plans.
In the Every-Other-Day Diet, you’ll unlock the secret to rapid and sustained weight loss and never endure every dieter’s nightmare: daily deprivation. Alternating between “Feast” days in which you eat whatever you want, and “Diet” day in which you eat 500 calories, you’ll lose: pounds, belly fat—and improve your health. Without giving up the foods you love.
I don't understand how this diet would work. (?)
I don't understand how, if you don't count calories, you know that you're only taking in 500 on your fast days, and how you know you aren't wiping out your deficit on the non fast days?
Plus, and I know this is beside the point, what would a 500 calorie day look like? How could it include any exercise? It sounds like punishment.
I agree completely.
For my 500 calorie days I'm consuming water, black coffee or hot tea until around noon. I have a 100 or 150 calorie protein shake or smoothie for lunch. When I get home from work (6pm) I have a spinach salad with tuna, 2 tbs of hummus and a drizzle of balsamic vinegar (350-400 calories depending on the amount of tuna and hummus). Hot tea in between when I feel hungry.
I haven't incorporated exercise. Yet. Unfortunately I probably won't until Feb, due to a job change to another city and my existing gym membership is geographically challenging now.
So, over 90 days how many would be 500? And no, you don't need to weigh your food for weight loss. Have you attempted any other diets in the past?
Well, half--45, as long as I stick with it.
Well, if I had 1500 every other day I'd fail. I'd easily fail. If you aren't exercising maybe it would be doable. I was attempting 1500 once a week and it was tough. My average day is 2500-2800 depending on activity. Any other diets you've attempted since you've been on MFP?
That's true for everybody, though.
Yes, but no one else is claiming that 1500 calories won't work for the OP because it doesn't work for him.
We don't know what works for the OP because the OP doesn't know what works. She is only doing this for 90 days so it isn't like her head will fall off with the program correct? Most people here, who are and have been successful, find ways and habits which work for them for life. Trying and failing as the OP stated way up thread is the problem, not the style she chooses. If you aren't learning along the way you'll keep trying any approach instead of learning habits for your health long term.
If I chose to follow IF I'd probably shoot for 1500 as a baseline/minimum and at most one day a week. Why? Because it is about as far I'd allow my calories to dip while essentially at rest. No exercise at all for the day.
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BTW, if you read the information provided by the OP, she weighs 192. If she doing this program of alternating between 500 and 1500 calories or whatever her daily is going to be, what was her intake to maintain the 192 pounds? I wonder if people are reading her comments or not.0
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_Terrapin_ wrote: »BTW, if you read the information provided by the OP, she weighs 192. If she doing this program of alternating between 500 and 1500 calories or whatever her daily is going to be, what was her intake to maintain the 192 pounds? I wonder if people are reading her comments or not.
I'm starting to resent the possibility that they may be using this topic as a launching pad to argue some random philosophy at the expense of the OP. Her selecting a plan to average 1000 cals per day? Who cares? IF is great. But ultimately, I suppose I need to realize she's an adult and is responsible for reading all the comments and making her decision0 -
_Terrapin_ wrote: »BTW, if you read the information provided by the OP, she weighs 192. If she doing this program of alternating between 500 and 1500 calories or whatever her daily is going to be, what was her intake to maintain the 192 pounds? I wonder if people are reading her comments or not.
I'm starting to resent the possibility that they may be using this topic as a launching pad to argue some random philosophy at the expense of the OP. Her selecting a plan to average 1000 cals per day? Who cares? IF is great. But ultimately, I suppose I need to realize she's an adult and is responsible for reading all the comments and making her decision
You wrote what I thought; I personally think it is great she (OP) is trying to find her way. If she averages less then MFP's 1,200 again I think her head will not fall off. I know the adage of 'missing micro and macro intake' when we dip below a certain calorie number. When I first joined over 3 years ago I remember a poster consuming well below the minimum. They post regularly and 3 years later their intake is below the minimum for MFP. Over 1,000 days is much different then 90. Also, since we know accuracy increases with a scale(oh no a blanket statement) she will probably consume more then what she thinks.
I agree IF has some incredible benefits. (1) It is a shock to get the mind wrapped around energy level changes and feelings of hunger. (2) The discipline to maintain a caloric deficit for the day (3) For some folks it allows them to simplify their weekly intake (4) For some, it is a great tool during training for either endurance or body building.
My apologies for those who read these bullet points and I placed the words 'some, many, all, or none' in the wrong sentences. It is a tool folks, jut like counting calories or running 5 miles. No one thing is 'THE' thing.
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_Terrapin_ wrote: »_Terrapin_ wrote: »BTW, if you read the information provided by the OP, she weighs 192. If she doing this program of alternating between 500 and 1500 calories or whatever her daily is going to be, what was her intake to maintain the 192 pounds? I wonder if people are reading her comments or not.
I'm starting to resent the possibility that they may be using this topic as a launching pad to argue some random philosophy at the expense of the OP. Her selecting a plan to average 1000 cals per day? Who cares? IF is great. But ultimately, I suppose I need to realize she's an adult and is responsible for reading all the comments and making her decision
You wrote what I thought; I personally think it is great she (OP) is trying to find her way. If she averages less then MFP's 1,200 again I think her head will not fall off. I know the adage of 'missing micro and macro intake' when we dip below a certain calorie number. When I first joined over 3 years ago I remember a poster consuming well below the minimum. They post regularly and 3 years later their intake is below the minimum for MFP. Over 1,000 days is much different then 90. Also, since we know accuracy increases with a scale(oh no a blanket statement) she will probably consume more then what she thinks.
I agree IF has some incredible benefits. (1) It is a shock to get the mind wrapped around energy level changes and feelings of hunger. (2) The discipline to maintain a caloric deficit for the day (3) For some folks it allows them to simplify their weekly intake (4) For some, it is a great tool during training for either endurance or body building.
My apologies for those who read these bullet points and I placed the words 'some, many, all, or none' in the wrong sentences. It is a tool folks, jut like counting calories or running 5 miles. No one thing is 'THE' thing.
I'd be curious to know compliance levels for beginner dieters who eat "500" cals every other day. I think many of us are coming as this from a formerly fat person stand point. If you're eating enough to weigh 192 lbs, chances are there's an extremely slim chance you'll sustain this sort of diet for 90 days, and subsequently transition successfully to ongoing weight loss or maintenance.0 -
BeckyyyXxxx486 wrote: »The reason why it can be hard to lose weight after a few weeks of your diet could be because you are losing fat which is great and your gaining muscle. Which we all know weighs more than fat so it may seem on the scales that you are gaining body fat or it staying the same but in reality your gaining muscle. So my suggestion is to avoid using the scales as much as you can just focus on how you look in the mirror you must be looking more toned right or noticed losing more belly fat? There's proof right there!
No. Muscle does not weigh more than fat. 1 pound of muscle weighs exactly as much as 1 pound of fat. 5 pounds of muscle weighs exactly as much as 5 pounds of fat. 50 pounds of muscle weighs exactly as much as 50 pounds of fat. (Do you see the pattern?) Muscle is more dense than fat, so 1 pound of muscle takes up less space than 1 pound of fat. But a pound of anything weighs exactly as much as a pound of anything else.0 -
ClosetBayesian wrote: »No. Muscle does not weigh more than fat. 1 pound of muscle weighs exactly as much as 1 pound of fat.
I don't weigh more than my 12yo, because a pound of me weighs exactly as much as a pound of her.
Intentionally misinterpreting common usage (and "weighs more" is common usage for both "is more dense than" and "is a greater quantity of equivalent density") isn't really the helpful kind of pedantry.0 -
Not claiming that I am never sure when i overeat, but I often eat more than I think I have.
Honestly, I have trouble feeling "full". logging gives me an idea of when to stop.
I don't know about the IF method or why the OP is having trouble.
Fast days can help put you back in touch with your feelings of hunger and fullness, too.
JaneiR36- I don't think the OP minds a little discussion of IF in "her" thread. If you're really curious about compliance levels, etc., I can point you toward the books and studies, though I imagine you could also google it.
I feel like the "I'm a fat person, I can't control my eating without an app" attitude is defeatist. Virtually all of us can relearn the skills of self-moderating. If you choose not to, fine, but often it seems like the claim is that "I can't so no one can. If they could they would've never been overweight."0 -
WalkingAlong wrote: »Not claiming that I am never sure when i overeat, but I often eat more than I think I have.
Honestly, I have trouble feeling "full". logging gives me an idea of when to stop.
I don't know about the IF method or why the OP is having trouble.
Fast days can help put you back in touch with your feelings of hunger and fullness, too.
JaneiR36- I don't think the OP minds a little discussion of IF in "her" thread. If you're really curious about compliance levels, etc., I can point you toward the books and studies, though I imagine you could also google it.
I feel like the "I'm a fat person, I can't control my eating without an app" attitude is defeatist. Virtually all of us can relearn the skills of self-moderating. If you choose not to, fine, but often it seems like the claim is that "I can't so no one can. If they could they would've never been overweight."
Is the 1000 average intake for 90 days what you're promoting here? Because that's what the OP is doing. The OP sees you as someone supporting her chosen WOE. I need you to be clear that eating at these levels for 90 days for a 192 lb woman is what you're backing. Your continued IF discussions could give her the impression that you're okay with her proposed diet. Are you?
It was a question I asked earlier, just like my request for compliance levels. If you're worried about wasting your time or something, don't worry about it0 -
_Terrapin_ wrote: »BTW, if you read the information provided by the OP, she weighs 192. If she doing this program of alternating between 500 and 1500 calories or whatever her daily is going to be, what was her intake to maintain the 192 pounds? I wonder if people are reading her comments or not.
I'm starting to resent the possibility that they may be using this topic as a launching pad to argue some random philosophy at the expense of the OP. Her selecting a plan to average 1000 cals per day? Who cares? IF is great. But ultimately, I suppose I need to realize she's an adult and is responsible for reading all the comments and making her decision
I was focusing on the "eating freely on off days" part of what the OP said and didn't get that the OP would only average 1000 calories per day if she was truly alternating between 500 and 1500 calorie days. Thanks for pointing it out. However, since she's not weighing and not losing weight, she's eating more than this.0 -
You need me to be clear? Are you a moderator or something? Or just hoping to report me for advocating VLCD?WalkingAlong wrote: »Not claiming that I am never sure when i overeat, but I often eat more than I think I have.
Honestly, I have trouble feeling "full". logging gives me an idea of when to stop.
I don't know about the IF method or why the OP is having trouble.
Fast days can help put you back in touch with your feelings of hunger and fullness, too.
JaneiR36- I don't think the OP minds a little discussion of IF in "her" thread. If you're really curious about compliance levels, etc., I can point you toward the books and studies, though I imagine you could also google it.
I feel like the "I'm a fat person, I can't control my eating without an app" attitude is defeatist. Virtually all of us can relearn the skills of self-moderating. If you choose not to, fine, but often it seems like the claim is that "I can't so no one can. If they could they would've never been overweight."
Is the 1000 average intake for 90 days what you're promoting here? Because that's what the OP is doing. The OP sees you as someone supporting her chosen WOE. I need you to be clear that eating at these levels for 90 days for a 192 lb woman is what you're backing. Your continued IF discussions could give her the impression that you're okay with her proposed diet. Are you?
It was a question I asked earlier, just like my request for compliance levels. If you're worried about wasting your time or something, don't worry about it
I'm not calculating others' calorie averages or advocating for or against any levels. We're all adults here. That's not my interest-- playing diet referee and telling others how they're "doing it wrong".
I see some changes to things since I spent time here last in 2014 or so, but the diet policing still seems to be a popular sport, with a lot of the same players. Seems to occur a lot less, though. In 2011 or so it was every damn thread. Positive trend overall.0
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