The Clean Eating Delusion...
Replies
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FunkyTobias wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »susan100df wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!
you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?
Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?
The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that
"Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.
Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.
I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.
I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.
You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.
Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.
100% safe anything is a fallacy...
How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?
no, not at all. You just exposed your body to all sorts of substances with potential negative chronic/acute effects.
You do this every time you breath, drink water, touch anything.
Most of the time you happened to expose yourself to low enough concentrations that the exposure caused no observable adverse effect.
Why wouldn't that mean 'safe'? No harm no foul, right?
And by that definition, organic is no safer than conventional.
Crops treated with approved pesticides are no safer than those that aren't
What part of this don't you understand?
All of it. Though I never said I thought crops treated with pesticides were not safe, I don't see how making such a leap is logical.
Why else would anyone want to minimize their exposure to pesticides?
I wasn't the one who said that, but I don't see why "not safe" would always be the answer. I'd bet "don't know' is just as common.
Don't know what?
If it is safe.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »susan100df wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!
you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?
Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?
The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that
"Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.
Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.
I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.
I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.
You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.
Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.
100% safe anything is a fallacy...
How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?
no, not at all. You just exposed your body to all sorts of substances with potential negative chronic/acute effects.
You do this every time you breath, drink water, touch anything.
Most of the time you happened to expose yourself to low enough concentrations that the exposure caused no observable adverse effect.
Why wouldn't that mean 'safe'? No harm no foul, right?
It's binary thinking in a Bayesian landscape.
Cancer isn't always the one time you got bit by a radioactive spider type events. It's the 20 times in a life you got minor sunburns that you didn't even register, on top of the 1 week you forgot to eat a single antixoident orange, and the 30 times you stood next to someone who wasn't smoking outside at the moment, but they were 2 minutes ago, and those 3 weightlifting sessions you skipped in the 80s, etc.
I am a cancer surviver. Despite knowing that I won't ever know how it happened, I will wonder why it did. Most people who get a life threatening illness want to know why it happened. Nothing wrong with questioning the food supply.
For the record I don't think it was GMO foods. I am very grateful to the scientists who figured out how to use drugs to manipulate DNA.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!
you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?
Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?
The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that
if you are eating organic you are not avoiding pesticides or chemicals, chances are you not minimizing them either..
not sure why you dont understand that.
I understand that I can avoid added pesticides and chemicals, and that would absolutely mean less.
so you avoid pesticides by consuming pesticides..?
that is a neat trick ..
I can avoid added pesticides by eating food not treated with pesticides. It's a very old trick.
and you know they are not treated with pesticides, how exactly?
Because I grow them and don't treat them.
so you get 100% of your fruits and vegetables from your garden 100% of the time? If yes you are in about .001% of the population...
So, you are saying that if 100% of my food is not home grown without added pesticides that none of it is?
you did not answer my question ..do you get 100% of your fruits and vegetables from your garden?
And you didn't answer mine. My fruit trees aren't in the garden.
you don't get to answer a question with a question ..
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!
you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?
Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?
The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that
if you are eating organic you are not avoiding pesticides or chemicals, chances are you not minimizing them either..
not sure why you dont understand that.
I understand that I can avoid added pesticides and chemicals, and that would absolutely mean less.
so you avoid pesticides by consuming pesticides..?
that is a neat trick ..
I can avoid added pesticides by eating food not treated with pesticides. It's a very old trick.
and you know they are not treated with pesticides, how exactly?
Because I grow them and don't treat them.
so you get 100% of your fruits and vegetables from your garden 100% of the time? If yes you are in about .001% of the population...
So, you are saying that if 100% of my food is not home grown without added pesticides that none of it is?
you did not answer my question ..do you get 100% of your fruits and vegetables from your garden?
And you didn't answer mine. My fruit trees aren't in the garden.
you don't get to answer a question with a question ..
I bet I can. Go ahead, ask.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »susan100df wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!
you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?
Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?
The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that
"Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.
Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.
I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.
I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.
You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.
Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.
100% safe anything is a fallacy...
How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?
no, not at all. You just exposed your body to all sorts of substances with potential negative chronic/acute effects.
You do this every time you breath, drink water, touch anything.
Most of the time you happened to expose yourself to low enough concentrations that the exposure caused no observable adverse effect.
Why wouldn't that mean 'safe'? No harm no foul, right?
Tell that to the people of Flint, Michigan. Most people think they're good to go, right up to that moment they're not...0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »susan100df wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!
you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?
Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?
The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that
"Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.
Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.
I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.
I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.
You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.
Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.
100% safe anything is a fallacy...
How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?
no, not at all. You just exposed your body to all sorts of substances with potential negative chronic/acute effects.
You do this every time you breath, drink water, touch anything.
Most of the time you happened to expose yourself to low enough concentrations that the exposure caused no observable adverse effect.
Why wouldn't that mean 'safe'? No harm no foul, right?
Tell that to the people of Flint, Michigan. Most people think they're good to go, right up to that moment they're not...
Totally different. My hypothetical had no ill effects.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »susan100df wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!
you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?
Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?
The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that
"Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.
Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.
I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.
I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.
You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.
Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.
100% safe anything is a fallacy...
How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?
no, not at all. You just exposed your body to all sorts of substances with potential negative chronic/acute effects.
You do this every time you breath, drink water, touch anything.
Most of the time you happened to expose yourself to low enough concentrations that the exposure caused no observable adverse effect.
Why wouldn't that mean 'safe'? No harm no foul, right?
Tell that to the people of Flint, Michigan. Most people think they're good to go, right up to that moment they're not...
Totally different. My hypothetical had no ill effects.
They thought they were perfectly fine; mayor even said so at press conference. Until someone discovered they weren't fine. You're healthy until you're sick; your x didn't cause a problem until it did.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »susan100df wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!
you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?
Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?
The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that
"Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.
Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.
I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.
I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.
You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.
Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.
100% safe anything is a fallacy...
How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?
no, not at all. You just exposed your body to all sorts of substances with potential negative chronic/acute effects.
You do this every time you breath, drink water, touch anything.
Most of the time you happened to expose yourself to low enough concentrations that the exposure caused no observable adverse effect.
Why wouldn't that mean 'safe'? No harm no foul, right?
Tell that to the people of Flint, Michigan. Most people think they're good to go, right up to that moment they're not...
Totally different. My hypothetical had no ill effects.
tell that no ill effects story to the thousands of soldiers in your intestinal floura you just killed with the antibiotic patulin that got ingested with that apple...
BACTERIA LIVES MATTER!!0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »susan100df wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!
you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?
Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?
The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that
"Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.
Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.
I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.
I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.
You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.
Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.
100% safe anything is a fallacy...
How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?
no, not at all. You just exposed your body to all sorts of substances with potential negative chronic/acute effects.
You do this every time you breath, drink water, touch anything.
Most of the time you happened to expose yourself to low enough concentrations that the exposure caused no observable adverse effect.
Why wouldn't that mean 'safe'? No harm no foul, right?
Tell that to the people of Flint, Michigan. Most people think they're good to go, right up to that moment they're not...
Totally different. My hypothetical had no ill effects.
They thought they were perfectly fine; mayor even said so at press conference. Until someone discovered they weren't fine. You're healthy until you're sick; your x didn't cause a problem until it did.
My x didn't cause a problem.
But your example is exactly what a lot of people that want to avoid additives are afraid of. Being told it's safe when it's not.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »susan100df wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!
you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?
Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?
The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that
"Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.
Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.
I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.
I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.
You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.
Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.
100% safe anything is a fallacy...
How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?
no, not at all. You just exposed your body to all sorts of substances with potential negative chronic/acute effects.
You do this every time you breath, drink water, touch anything.
Most of the time you happened to expose yourself to low enough concentrations that the exposure caused no observable adverse effect.
Why wouldn't that mean 'safe'? No harm no foul, right?
Tell that to the people of Flint, Michigan. Most people think they're good to go, right up to that moment they're not...
Totally different. My hypothetical had no ill effects.
They thought they were perfectly fine; mayor even said so at press conference. Until someone discovered they weren't fine. You're healthy until you're sick; your x didn't cause a problem until it did.
My x didn't cause a problem.
But your example is exactly what a lot of people that want to avoid additives are afraid of. Being told it's safe when it's not.
Exactly. No doubt that people take advantage if no one is questioning.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »susan100df wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!
you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?
Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?
The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that
"Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.
Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.
I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.
I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.
You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.
Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.
100% safe anything is a fallacy...
How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?
no, not at all. You just exposed your body to all sorts of substances with potential negative chronic/acute effects.
You do this every time you breath, drink water, touch anything.
Most of the time you happened to expose yourself to low enough concentrations that the exposure caused no observable adverse effect.
Why wouldn't that mean 'safe'? No harm no foul, right?
Tell that to the people of Flint, Michigan. Most people think they're good to go, right up to that moment they're not...
Totally different. My hypothetical had no ill effects.
They thought they were perfectly fine; mayor even said so at press conference. Until someone discovered they weren't fine. You're healthy until you're sick; your x didn't cause a problem until it did.
My x didn't cause a problem.
But your example is exactly what a lot of people that want to avoid additives are afraid of. Being told it's safe when it's not.
But saying "organic is safer than GMO" is really just a guess. Especially when a lot of people who eat organic foods don't actually understand what organic is defined as. I don't know how many arguments I get into with people because they eat organic because they don't like to eat pesticides. Uhh...0 -
FunkyTobias wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »susan100df wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!
you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?
Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?
The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that
"Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.
Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.
I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.
I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.
You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.
Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.
100% safe anything is a fallacy...
How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?
no, not at all. You just exposed your body to all sorts of substances with potential negative chronic/acute effects.
You do this every time you breath, drink water, touch anything.
Most of the time you happened to expose yourself to low enough concentrations that the exposure caused no observable adverse effect.
Why wouldn't that mean 'safe'? No harm no foul, right?
And by that definition, organic is no safer than conventional.
Crops treated with approved pesticides are no safer than those that aren't
What part of this don't you understand?
All of it. Though I never said I thought crops treated with pesticides were not safe, I don't see how making such a leap is logical.
Why else would anyone want to minimize their exposure to pesticides?
This is one very good reason for me: http://sos-bees.org/0 -
I think that the "anti-clean eating" people miss the basic point when analyzing people who are looking for less processed food. I simply would rather eat a piece of bread with 5-6 basic ingredients than some processed piece of bread (like Subway, for example), with 30+ ingredients that make the bread look, feel, and taste like the 5-6 ingredient bread but also have a very long shelf life. If I can eat a burger from a cow that just wandered around eating grass it's whole life, I would prefer that over one that stood in a cage for a year and was injected with steroid and anti-biotics.
I'm not radical about it, I eat fast food and processed crap, because I just don't have time to be some naturalist that is existing out in the wild in a loincloth living off of the roots and weeds that I come across - I'm simply speaking of aspiring to eat higher quality food that are not substantially manipulated simply to make it more profitable for some corporation by increasing it's shelf life or making it look prettier.
I don't disagree with any of this.
I just don't think it means I "eat clean," or that eating the mass-marketed bread would be "unhealthy." I might think the other tastes better or fits better into how I like to eat, and I might even prefer to avoid some specific ingredients (including added sugar in some cases) when it doesn't seem to provide any particular benefit to me (including taste).
What I find odd is when people say you must eat clean to be healthy or can't get fat eating in this way or act as if it makes them more virtuous than others. OR when they claim not to eat processed foods or that processed foods are bad. Even if I ate 100% according to how I think I should (and I often do not), it would not involve cutting out "processed" foods, as many processed foods (like smoked salmon and cottage cheese and dried pasta, among others) are foods I have concluded are helpful to me in achieving my goals and eating an overall nutrient-dense diet. So I feel compelled to ask people who assert that processed foods are bad: "why?"0 -
I think that the "anti-clean eating" people miss the basic point when analyzing people who are looking for less processed food. I simply would rather eat a piece of bread with 5-6 basic ingredients than some processed piece of bread (like Subway, for example), with 30+ ingredients that make the bread look, feel, and taste like the 5-6 ingredient bread but also have a very long shelf life. If I can eat a burger from a cow that just wandered around eating grass it's whole life, I would prefer that over one that stood in a cage for a year and was injected with steroid and anti-biotics.
I'm not radical about it, I eat fast food and processed crap, because I just don't have time to be some naturalist that is existing out in the wild in a loincloth living off of the roots and weeds that I come across - I'm simply speaking of aspiring to eat higher quality food that are not substantially manipulated simply to make it more profitable for some corporation by increasing it's shelf life or making it look prettier.
Which is fine and something that I find myself doing, but when people say the "non-clean" food is causing people to be obese, or all "non-clean" food is unhealthy--that is untrue. Promoting that falsehood is detrimental to public health.
Especially for the people aren't able to afford the organic/grassfed/non-gmo stuff. In my opinion, it gives the falsehood that if you can't afford that stuff, you can't be healthy or lose weight, which is completely false, but some still might think that and never even try because they think it's impossible...
Great point.
Same for the people who don't yet know how to cook or think they don't have time. I'm a huge advocate for cooking and think it has improved my own life immensely (although I am proof one can get fat eating plenty of homecooked meals), but someone who must start out learning to cook and controlling calories while eating meals based in part on pre-made ingredients or stuff like packaged rice and beans (I did this back in my 20s, added vegetables), shouldn't be told they are doing it wrong.0 -
I didn't know there were two meanings to "eating clean". This whole time all I had to do before a competition is to avoid GMO and eat organic??? I always though "eating clean" meant eating a well balanced diet that included fruits, veggies, lean proteins, legumes and whole grains. I'm not familiar with your version of eating clean.0
-
muscleandbeard wrote: »I didn't know there were two meanings to "eating clean". This whole time all I had to do before a competition is to avoid GMO and eat organic??? I always though "eating clean" meant eating a well balanced diet that included fruits, veggies, lean proteins, legumes and whole grains. I'm not familiar with your version of eating clean.
If offended my senses when I saw it defined that way too...
0 -
muscleandbeard wrote: »I didn't know there were two meanings to "eating clean". This whole time all I had to do before a competition is to avoid GMO and eat organic??? I always though "eating clean" meant eating a well balanced diet that included fruits, veggies, lean proteins, legumes and whole grains. I'm not familiar with your version of eating clean.
One of the problems with clean eating is that there is no concise definition of clean eat. We've seen probably about 30 different definitions adamantly defended on these forums at different times.
Anyone have @diannethegeek list somewhere?
ETA: Here's the list:
Nothing but minimally processed foods.
Absolutely no processed foods.
Shop only the outside of the grocery store.
Nothing out of a box, jar, or can.
Only food that's not in a box or hermetically sealed bag, or from e.g. McDonald's.
No take-out or junk food at all.
Nothing at all with a barcode.
Nothing with more than 5 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 4 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 3 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 1 ingredient.
No added preservatives.
No added chemicals.
No chemicals, preservatives, etc. at all.
No ingredients that you can't pronounce.
No ingredients that sound like they came out of a chemistry book.
Nothing that is processed and comes in a package or wrapper, or has any ingredient that sounds scientific.
Don't eat products that have a TV commercial.
Don't eat foods that have a mascot.
If it grows or had a mother, it is ok to eat it.
Don't eat products that have a longer shelf life than you do.
Eat "food" and not "food-like substances."
No added sugar.
No added refined sugar.
Swap white sugar for brown.
No "white" foods.
Nothing but lean meats, fruits, and vegetables.
Nothing but lean meats, fruits, vegetables, and beans.
Nothing but a plant-based whole food diet.
Eat foods as close to their natural state as POSSIBLE, and little to no processed food.
Only meat from grass-fed animals and free-range chickens.
Only pesticide-free foods.
Nothing that causes your body bloat or inflammation.
No trigger foods, nothing from fast food chains, nothing in the junk food aisles, and no high gmo foods.
No red meat, no sweets, no pasta, no alcohol, no bread, no soda, nothing but fresh fruits and vegetables, complex carbohydrates and lean proteins.
No bad carbs and processed foods.
Anything that makes a better choice.
Not cheating on whatever diet you are on.
Any food that doesn't make it difficult to hit your macro/micro targets.0 -
muscleandbeard wrote: »I didn't know there were two meanings to "eating clean". This whole time all I had to do before a competition is to avoid GMO and eat organic??? I always though "eating clean" meant eating a well balanced diet that included fruits, veggies, lean proteins, legumes and whole grains. I'm not familiar with your version of eating clean.
There are more than just the two meanings, ime.0 -
Ask and it shall be brought forth. Okay, these are the meanings of "clean eating" that I've compiled. I'd like to note that many of these are copy/pasted directly from the thread where they appeared, but some have been modified to fit the format of the list. By some of these definitions, Fritos are a clean food. By some of them pistachios and eggs are not.
Nothing but minimally processed foods.
Absolutely no processed foods.
Shop only the outside of the grocery store.
Nothing out of a box, jar, or can.
Only food that's not in a box or hermetically sealed bag, or from e.g. McDonald's.
No take-out or junk food at all.
Nothing at all with a barcode.
Nothing with more than 5 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 4 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 3 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 1 ingredient.
No added preservatives.
No added chemicals.
No chemicals, preservatives, etc. at all.
No ingredients that you can't pronounce.
No ingredients that sound like they came out of a chemistry book.
Nothing that is processed and comes in a package or wrapper, or has any ingredient that sounds scientific.
Don't eat products that have a TV commercial.
Don't eat foods that have a mascot.
If it grows or had a mother, it is ok to eat it.
Don't eat products that have a longer shelf life than you do.
Eat "food" and not "food-like substances."
No added sugar.
No added refined sugar.
Swap white sugar for brown.
No "white" foods.
Nothing but lean meats, fruits, and vegetables.
Nothing but lean meats, fruits, vegetables, and beans.
A plant-based whole food diet.
Eat foods as close to their natural state as POSSIBLE, and little to no processed food.
Only meat from grass-fed animals and free-range chickens.
Only pesticide-free foods.
Nothing that causes your body bloat or inflammation.
No trigger foods, nothing from fast food chains, nothing in the junk food aisles, and no high gmo foods.
No red meat, no sweets, no pasta, no alcohol, no bread, no soda, nothing but fresh fruits and vegetables, complex carbohydrates and lean proteins.
Eat a plant based diet consisting of whole plant foods.
No bad carbs and processed foods.
Anything that makes a better choice.
Not cheating on whatever diet you are on.
Any food that doesn't make it difficult to hit your macro/micro targets.
Once upon a time I would have assumed that clean eating is close to synonymous with cooking from scratch. These forums have disillusioned me to that idea.0 -
muscleandbeard wrote: »I didn't know there were two meanings to "eating clean". This whole time all I had to do before a competition is to avoid GMO and eat organic??? I always though "eating clean" meant eating a well balanced diet that included fruits, veggies, lean proteins, legumes and whole grains. I'm not familiar with your version of eating clean.
One of the problems with clean eating is that there is no concise definition of clean eat. We've seen probably about 30 different definitions adamantly defended on these forums at different times.
Anyone have @diannethegeek list somewhere?
ETA: Here's the list:
Nothing but minimally processed foods.
Absolutely no processed foods.
Shop only the outside of the grocery store.
Nothing out of a box, jar, or can.
Only food that's not in a box or hermetically sealed bag, or from e.g. McDonald's.
No take-out or junk food at all.
Nothing at all with a barcode.
Nothing with more than 5 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 4 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 3 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 1 ingredient.
No added preservatives.
No added chemicals.
No chemicals, preservatives, etc. at all.
No ingredients that you can't pronounce.
No ingredients that sound like they came out of a chemistry book.
Nothing that is processed and comes in a package or wrapper, or has any ingredient that sounds scientific.
Don't eat products that have a TV commercial.
Don't eat foods that have a mascot.
If it grows or had a mother, it is ok to eat it.
Don't eat products that have a longer shelf life than you do.
Eat "food" and not "food-like substances."
No added sugar.
No added refined sugar.
Swap white sugar for brown.
No "white" foods.
Nothing but lean meats, fruits, and vegetables.
Nothing but lean meats, fruits, vegetables, and beans.
Nothing but a plant-based whole food diet.
Eat foods as close to their natural state as POSSIBLE, and little to no processed food.
Only meat from grass-fed animals and free-range chickens.
Only pesticide-free foods.
Nothing that causes your body bloat or inflammation.
No trigger foods, nothing from fast food chains, nothing in the junk food aisles, and no high gmo foods.
No red meat, no sweets, no pasta, no alcohol, no bread, no soda, nothing but fresh fruits and vegetables, complex carbohydrates and lean proteins.
No bad carbs and processed foods.
Anything that makes a better choice.
Not cheating on whatever diet you are on.
Any food that doesn't make it difficult to hit your macro/micro targets.
You're faster than I am at finding it!0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »muscleandbeard wrote: »I didn't know there were two meanings to "eating clean". This whole time all I had to do before a competition is to avoid GMO and eat organic??? I always though "eating clean" meant eating a well balanced diet that included fruits, veggies, lean proteins, legumes and whole grains. I'm not familiar with your version of eating clean.
One of the problems with clean eating is that there is no concise definition of clean eat. We've seen probably about 30 different definitions adamantly defended on these forums at different times.
Anyone have @diannethegeek list somewhere?
ETA: Here's the list:
Nothing but minimally processed foods.
Absolutely no processed foods.
Shop only the outside of the grocery store.
Nothing out of a box, jar, or can.
Only food that's not in a box or hermetically sealed bag, or from e.g. McDonald's.
No take-out or junk food at all.
Nothing at all with a barcode.
Nothing with more than 5 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 4 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 3 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 1 ingredient.
No added preservatives.
No added chemicals.
No chemicals, preservatives, etc. at all.
No ingredients that you can't pronounce.
No ingredients that sound like they came out of a chemistry book.
Nothing that is processed and comes in a package or wrapper, or has any ingredient that sounds scientific.
Don't eat products that have a TV commercial.
Don't eat foods that have a mascot.
If it grows or had a mother, it is ok to eat it.
Don't eat products that have a longer shelf life than you do.
Eat "food" and not "food-like substances."
No added sugar.
No added refined sugar.
Swap white sugar for brown.
No "white" foods.
Nothing but lean meats, fruits, and vegetables.
Nothing but lean meats, fruits, vegetables, and beans.
Nothing but a plant-based whole food diet.
Eat foods as close to their natural state as POSSIBLE, and little to no processed food.
Only meat from grass-fed animals and free-range chickens.
Only pesticide-free foods.
Nothing that causes your body bloat or inflammation.
No trigger foods, nothing from fast food chains, nothing in the junk food aisles, and no high gmo foods.
No red meat, no sweets, no pasta, no alcohol, no bread, no soda, nothing but fresh fruits and vegetables, complex carbohydrates and lean proteins.
No bad carbs and processed foods.
Anything that makes a better choice.
Not cheating on whatever diet you are on.
Any food that doesn't make it difficult to hit your macro/micro targets.
You're faster than I am at finding it!
The search function isn't too bad once you limit it to a known author...0 -
muscleandbeard wrote: »I didn't know there were two meanings to "eating clean". This whole time all I had to do before a competition is to avoid GMO and eat organic??? I always though "eating clean" meant eating a well balanced diet that included fruits, veggies, lean proteins, legumes and whole grains. I'm not familiar with your version of eating clean.
You know what they say, 2 clean eaters, 3 definitions of clean eating!
Around here (not the bodybuilding world) it seems to mean "not eating processed foods" but I've seen it used to mean avoiding meat, avoiding grains, eating paleo, avoiding carbs, avoiding fast food and highly processed foods, and eating only organic and avoiding GMOs. Also a lot of stuff about avoiding foods from a box or bag and foods with more than X ingredients.
Edit: Oh, and I'm way late -- Dianne's list is great.0 -
-
muscleandbeard wrote: »I didn't know there were two meanings to "eating clean". This whole time all I had to do before a competition is to avoid GMO and eat organic??? I always though "eating clean" meant eating a well balanced diet that included fruits, veggies, lean proteins, legumes and whole grains. I'm not familiar with your version of eating clean.
One of the problems with clean eating is that there is no concise definition of clean eat. We've seen probably about 30 different definitions adamantly defended on these forums at different times.
Anyone have @diannethegeek list somewhere?
ETA: Here's the list:
Nothing but minimally processed foods.
Absolutely no processed foods.
Shop only the outside of the grocery store.
Nothing out of a box, jar, or can.
Only food that's not in a box or hermetically sealed bag, or from e.g. McDonald's.
No take-out or junk food at all.
Nothing at all with a barcode.
Nothing with more than 5 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 4 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 3 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 1 ingredient.
No added preservatives.
No added chemicals.
No chemicals, preservatives, etc. at all.
No ingredients that you can't pronounce.
No ingredients that sound like they came out of a chemistry book.
Nothing that is processed and comes in a package or wrapper, or has any ingredient that sounds scientific.
Don't eat products that have a TV commercial.
Don't eat foods that have a mascot.
If it grows or had a mother, it is ok to eat it.
Don't eat products that have a longer shelf life than you do.
Eat "food" and not "food-like substances."
No added sugar.
No added refined sugar.
Swap white sugar for brown.
No "white" foods.
Nothing but lean meats, fruits, and vegetables.
Nothing but lean meats, fruits, vegetables, and beans.
Nothing but a plant-based whole food diet.
Eat foods as close to their natural state as POSSIBLE, and little to no processed food.
Only meat from grass-fed animals and free-range chickens.
Only pesticide-free foods.
Nothing that causes your body bloat or inflammation.
No trigger foods, nothing from fast food chains, nothing in the junk food aisles, and no high gmo foods.
No red meat, no sweets, no pasta, no alcohol, no bread, no soda, nothing but fresh fruits and vegetables, complex carbohydrates and lean proteins.
No bad carbs and processed foods.
Anything that makes a better choice.
Not cheating on whatever diet you are on.
Any food that doesn't make it difficult to hit your macro/micro targets.
I wouldn't consider that "clean" eating in terms of fitness lingo. Maybe "healthy" "organic" or "natural". Next time I do a "clean" bulk I'll just avoid GMO extra hard.0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »muscleandbeard wrote: »I didn't know there were two meanings to "eating clean". This whole time all I had to do before a competition is to avoid GMO and eat organic??? I always though "eating clean" meant eating a well balanced diet that included fruits, veggies, lean proteins, legumes and whole grains. I'm not familiar with your version of eating clean.
One of the problems with clean eating is that there is no concise definition of clean eat. We've seen probably about 30 different definitions adamantly defended on these forums at different times.
Anyone have @diannethegeek list somewhere?
ETA: Here's the list:
Nothing but minimally processed foods.
Absolutely no processed foods.
Shop only the outside of the grocery store.
Nothing out of a box, jar, or can.
Only food that's not in a box or hermetically sealed bag, or from e.g. McDonald's.
No take-out or junk food at all.
Nothing at all with a barcode.
Nothing with more than 5 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 4 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 3 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 1 ingredient.
No added preservatives.
No added chemicals.
No chemicals, preservatives, etc. at all.
No ingredients that you can't pronounce.
No ingredients that sound like they came out of a chemistry book.
Nothing that is processed and comes in a package or wrapper, or has any ingredient that sounds scientific.
Don't eat products that have a TV commercial.
Don't eat foods that have a mascot.
If it grows or had a mother, it is ok to eat it.
Don't eat products that have a longer shelf life than you do.
Eat "food" and not "food-like substances."
No added sugar.
No added refined sugar.
Swap white sugar for brown.
No "white" foods.
Nothing but lean meats, fruits, and vegetables.
Nothing but lean meats, fruits, vegetables, and beans.
Nothing but a plant-based whole food diet.
Eat foods as close to their natural state as POSSIBLE, and little to no processed food.
Only meat from grass-fed animals and free-range chickens.
Only pesticide-free foods.
Nothing that causes your body bloat or inflammation.
No trigger foods, nothing from fast food chains, nothing in the junk food aisles, and no high gmo foods.
No red meat, no sweets, no pasta, no alcohol, no bread, no soda, nothing but fresh fruits and vegetables, complex carbohydrates and lean proteins.
No bad carbs and processed foods.
Anything that makes a better choice.
Not cheating on whatever diet you are on.
Any food that doesn't make it difficult to hit your macro/micro targets.
You're faster than I am at finding it!
In one thread an OP used it to describe meeting one's calorie and/or macro goals. I was excited to learn that I've been eating clean this whole time.0 -
"Clean eating" will have an entirely different definition if you ask:
a vegetarian
a vegan
a raw vegan
a fruitarian
a Paleo dieter
a low-fat dieter
a low-carb dieter
a keto dieter
an IIFYM dieter
So which one is right? And what objective criteria/science exists to determine that?0 -
muscleandbeard wrote: »muscleandbeard wrote: »I didn't know there were two meanings to "eating clean". This whole time all I had to do before a competition is to avoid GMO and eat organic??? I always though "eating clean" meant eating a well balanced diet that included fruits, veggies, lean proteins, legumes and whole grains. I'm not familiar with your version of eating clean.
One of the problems with clean eating is that there is no concise definition of clean eat. We've seen probably about 30 different definitions adamantly defended on these forums at different times.
Anyone have @diannethegeek list somewhere?
ETA: Here's the list:
Nothing but minimally processed foods.
Absolutely no processed foods.
Shop only the outside of the grocery store.
Nothing out of a box, jar, or can.
Only food that's not in a box or hermetically sealed bag, or from e.g. McDonald's.
No take-out or junk food at all.
Nothing at all with a barcode.
Nothing with more than 5 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 4 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 3 ingredients.
Nothing with more than 1 ingredient.
No added preservatives.
No added chemicals.
No chemicals, preservatives, etc. at all.
No ingredients that you can't pronounce.
No ingredients that sound like they came out of a chemistry book.
Nothing that is processed and comes in a package or wrapper, or has any ingredient that sounds scientific.
Don't eat products that have a TV commercial.
Don't eat foods that have a mascot.
If it grows or had a mother, it is ok to eat it.
Don't eat products that have a longer shelf life than you do.
Eat "food" and not "food-like substances."
No added sugar.
No added refined sugar.
Swap white sugar for brown.
No "white" foods.
Nothing but lean meats, fruits, and vegetables.
Nothing but lean meats, fruits, vegetables, and beans.
Nothing but a plant-based whole food diet.
Eat foods as close to their natural state as POSSIBLE, and little to no processed food.
Only meat from grass-fed animals and free-range chickens.
Only pesticide-free foods.
Nothing that causes your body bloat or inflammation.
No trigger foods, nothing from fast food chains, nothing in the junk food aisles, and no high gmo foods.
No red meat, no sweets, no pasta, no alcohol, no bread, no soda, nothing but fresh fruits and vegetables, complex carbohydrates and lean proteins.
No bad carbs and processed foods.
Anything that makes a better choice.
Not cheating on whatever diet you are on.
Any food that doesn't make it difficult to hit your macro/micro targets.
I wouldn't consider that "clean" eating in terms of fitness lingo. Maybe "healthy" "organic" or "natural". Next time I do a "clean" bulk I'll just avoid GMO extra hard.
It's one of those words that have lost their original meaning over time and been applied to almost everything. Like detox or ironic.0 -
"Clean eating" will have an entirely different definition if you ask:
a vegetarian
a vegan
a raw vegan
a fruitarian
a Paleo dieter
a low-fat dieter
a low-carb dieter
a keto dieter
an IIFYM dieter
So which one is right? And what objective criteria/science exists to determine that?
Apparently @muscleandbeard is correct and no one else is.
Of course, I though a clean bulk was eating a moderate surplus so that your muscle/fat ratio remains optimal...0 -
"Clean eating" will have an entirely different definition if you ask:
a vegetarian
a vegan
a raw vegan
a fruitarian
a Paleo dieter
a low-fat dieter
a low-carb dieter
a keto dieter
an IIFYM dieter
So which one is right? And what objective criteria/science exists to determine that?
Apparently @muscleandbeard is correct and no one else is.
Of course, I though a clean bulk was eating a moderate surplus so that your muscle/fat ratio remains optimal...
I'm sorry for thinking this was a "fitness" app.0 -
muscleandbeard wrote: »"Clean eating" will have an entirely different definition if you ask:
a vegetarian
a vegan
a raw vegan
a fruitarian
a Paleo dieter
a low-fat dieter
a low-carb dieter
a keto dieter
an IIFYM dieter
So which one is right? And what objective criteria/science exists to determine that?
Apparently @muscleandbeard is correct and no one else is.
Of course, I though a clean bulk was eating a moderate surplus so that your muscle/fat ratio remains optimal...
I'm sorry for thinking this was a "fitness" app.
It is...but there is more than one definition of "fitness" too.0
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