The Clean Eating Delusion...

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Replies

  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »

    Quoting cuz I think no one watched it.

    Who is that even, I bet he works for monsanto or so-
    oh he's the co-founder of greenpeace?
  • senecarr
    senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
    aggelikik wrote: »
    aggelikik wrote: »
    Hornsby wrote: »
    https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-clean-eating-delusion/

    In practice “clean eating” tends to be avoiding whatever food is the latest boogeyman in the pseudoscientific diet-advice industry. Today this often includes eating organic, avoiding GMOs, avoiding gluten, avoiding perceived “chemicals,” eating “natural” which can mean many things but often means avoiding processed foods and food additives, and sometimes eating raw foods.

    It is important to emphasize that none of these food beliefs are science based. After 50 years of research there is no evidence for any health benefit to eating organic. After 20 years of research there is no evidence of any health risk to any currently available GMO foods.

    Why is there an assumption that people who prefer organic and avoid GMO are only doing this for health benefits? It is like claiming a vegetarian will not eat a burger because the burger is not "clean".

    Because it is marketed toward that reason people. Especially the GMO one.

    Marketed by whom? I am in Europe where the majority of countries (and people) are against GMO (and there is a ban in most countries). The main objections are environmental. It is environmental organisations leading both pro-organic and anti-GMO campaigns, not anyone marketing "clean" eating lifestyles, at least from what I have seen all these years.

    So Seralini's rat experiment that's been touted over and over again was based on environment?
    European constructs whatever reasons get people to believe against GMO. Their biggest reason against it is simple economics: you can't block food that comes from other countries without violating international treaties. The USA got slapped because it had laws requiring food to put country of origin on it, and now that's changed. However, blocking GMOs is a pretty easy way to cut off the USA as an agricultural powerhouse off at the knees without saying "hey USA, stop being better at making food cheaper than us!"
  • senecarr
    senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
    aggelikik wrote: »
    That's not categories, that's literally what you get immediately after typing in GMO foods.
    Half a dozen pictures of various fruits (mostly tomatoes) with syringes sticking in them, one of them with the caption "Do you really want pesticides in the DNA of your food?" Pictures with "Top 10 common GMO foods" one of them adding "a.k.a. frankenfood". Stitched together apples with vials of liquid next to them, zombies munching on corn, rats with tumors (apparently attributed to being fed GMOs), "our bodies on GMOs" (the GMOs being in a font that makes it look like it's gooey, dripping down), claims of health effects of them, how to spot them, talking about labelling them or better yet banning them.
    This is the #1 reason people talk about GMOs. Not because of the environment, because they think it makes your brain rot and gives you cancer and various other diseases.

    Page 4 has the first one that even mentions the environment.

    I have no doubt that there are people trying to promote their eating plan who will use whatever they can find. However, in many places all over the world (I am guessing here you are either American or British, sorry if I am wrong), GMOs are not considered safe for the environment or proven safe for human consumption, they are basically considered a gamble. This is not a new movement associated to losing weight or detoxing or selling new products. Perhaps there is a cultural difference here, so it is hard to understand how what you consider as a normal part of diet is completely banned in other countries, but it is true.

    300px-Webcomic_xkcd_-_Wikipedian_protester.png
  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,455 Member
    auddii wrote: »
    shadowconn wrote: »
    meeehh . . My only rule is that if I can't reproduce it in my kitchen, I'm not buying it. I have yet to find something I couldn't reproduce in my own kitchen. A hand blender and corn starch can do a lot. *grins*

    I'm thinking just a hand blender and corn starch leads to a very large mess...

    Exactly what I was thinking!
  • 100df
    100df Posts: 668 Member
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »

    Quoting cuz I think no one watched it.

    I just watched it.

    I eat GMO foods because I am lazy. It would be too much trouble trying to avoid them. I think even when you actively avoid them, you are eating them anyway.

    I love to bake my own bread. I enjoy the process and especially the taste. I assume the ingredients I use are GMO. I assume the vegetables I buy from the small family farm are GMO.

    While I eat them and feed them to my family, I do wonder if there is a difference with DNA exchange that happens in nature and with DNA exchange that is manipulated by humans.

    Like many issues it is difficult to get straight answers when the issue has been politicized. Both sides of the GMO issue are extremists.
  • auddii
    auddii Posts: 15,357 Member
    susan100df wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »

    Quoting cuz I think no one watched it.

    I just watched it.

    I eat GMO foods because I am lazy. It would be too much trouble trying to avoid them. I think even when you actively avoid them, you are eating them anyway.

    I love to bake my own bread. I enjoy the process and especially the taste. I assume the ingredients I use are GMO. I assume the vegetables I buy from the small family farm are GMO.

    While I eat them and feed them to my family, I do wonder if there is a difference with DNA exchange that happens in nature and with DNA exchange that is manipulated by humans.

    Like many issues it is difficult to get straight answers when the issue has been politicized. Both sides of the GMO issue are extremists.

    Can you explain the mechanism for which you believe DNA transformation would be increased in GMOs compared to non-GMO foods?
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,139 Member
    auddii wrote: »
    susan100df wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »

    Quoting cuz I think no one watched it.

    I just watched it.

    I eat GMO foods because I am lazy. It would be too much trouble trying to avoid them. I think even when you actively avoid them, you are eating them anyway.

    I love to bake my own bread. I enjoy the process and especially the taste. I assume the ingredients I use are GMO. I assume the vegetables I buy from the small family farm are GMO.

    While I eat them and feed them to my family, I do wonder if there is a difference with DNA exchange that happens in nature and with DNA exchange that is manipulated by humans.

    Like many issues it is difficult to get straight answers when the issue has been politicized. Both sides of the GMO issue are extremists.

    Can you explain the mechanism for which you believe DNA transformation would be increased in GMOs compared to non-GMO foods?

    yes, please explain this....
  • 100df
    100df Posts: 668 Member
    No I can't explain it. It's way above my pay grade.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,576 Member
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that
  • senecarr
    senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
    susan100df wrote: »
    No I can't explain it. It's way above my pay grade.

    Well seeing as the last PhD who proposed DNA somehow possibly surviving digestion had his experiment found unrepeatable with probably explanation of results being lab contamination, yeah, I imagine it would be a pretty high pay grade to show eating DNA changes DNA expression.
  • senecarr
    senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,576 Member
    susan100df wrote: »
    Like many issues it is difficult to get straight answers when the issue has been politicized. Both sides of the GMO issue are extremists.

    Truest statement I've seen in this thread.
  • auddii
    auddii Posts: 15,357 Member
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    GMOs may do that too; the largest decrease in use of pesticides is due to GMO crops.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,576 Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.

    Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.
  • senecarr
    senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.

    Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.

    I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.
  • FunkyTobias
    FunkyTobias Posts: 1,776 Member
    susan100df wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »

    Quoting cuz I think no one watched it.

    I just watched it.

    I eat GMO foods because I am lazy. It would be too much trouble trying to avoid them. I think even when you actively avoid them, you are eating them anyway.

    I love to bake my own bread. I enjoy the process and especially the taste. I assume the ingredients I use are GMO. I assume the vegetables I buy from the small family farm are GMO.

    While I eat them and feed them to my family, I do wonder if there is a difference with DNA exchange that happens in nature and with DNA exchange that is manipulated by humans.

    Like many issues it is difficult to get straight answers when the issue has been politicized. Both sides of the GMO issue are extremists.

    ex·trem·ist
    ikˈstrēməst/
    noun
    a person who holds extreme or fanatical political or religious views, especially one who resorts to or advocates extreme action.

    Those that agree with the scientific consensus are the polar opposite of extremists.
  • harrybananas
    harrybananas Posts: 292 Member
    Fast food and processed foods all day every day.
  • auddii
    auddii Posts: 15,357 Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    susan100df wrote: »
    No I can't explain it. It's way above my pay grade.

    Well seeing as the last PhD who proposed DNA somehow possibly surviving digestion had his experiment found unrepeatable with probably explanation of results being lab contamination, yeah, I imagine it would be a pretty high pay grade to show eating DNA changes DNA expression.

    To be fair, DNA transformation occurs, but at a very small rate. I just can't see how having GMOs vs non-GMO could possibly increase the transformation rate.
  • senecarr
    senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
    susan100df wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »

    Quoting cuz I think no one watched it.

    I just watched it.

    I eat GMO foods because I am lazy. It would be too much trouble trying to avoid them. I think even when you actively avoid them, you are eating them anyway.

    I love to bake my own bread. I enjoy the process and especially the taste. I assume the ingredients I use are GMO. I assume the vegetables I buy from the small family farm are GMO.

    While I eat them and feed them to my family, I do wonder if there is a difference with DNA exchange that happens in nature and with DNA exchange that is manipulated by humans.

    Like many issues it is difficult to get straight answers when the issue has been politicized. Both sides of the GMO issue are extremists.

    ex·trem·ist
    ikˈstrēməst/
    noun
    a person who holds extreme or fanatical political or religious views, especially one who resorts to or advocates extreme action.

    Those that agree with the scientific consensus are the polar opposite of extremists.

    Dat scientism tho': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,576 Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.

    Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.

    I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.

    Attack of the Killer Tomatoes! Thanks for that memory. :D