The Clean Eating Delusion...

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Replies

  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    if you are eating organic you are not avoiding pesticides or chemicals, chances are you not minimizing them either..

    not sure why you dont understand that.

    I understand that I can avoid added pesticides and chemicals, and that would absolutely mean less.

    so you avoid pesticides by consuming pesticides..?

    that is a neat trick ..

    I can avoid added pesticides by eating food not treated with pesticides. It's a very old trick.

    and you know they are not treated with pesticides, how exactly?

    Because I grow them and don't treat them.

    so you get 100% of your fruits and vegetables from your garden 100% of the time? If yes you are in about .001% of the population...

    So, you are saying that if 100% of my food is not home grown without added pesticides that none of it is?
  • FunkyTobias
    FunkyTobias Posts: 1,776 Member
    susan100df wrote: »
    And now I am going to pick up Chipotle where I don't trust that their ingredients are GMO free as they claim. The distrust is on both sides.

    Good thinking

    GMO is scary. E coli, salmonella, and norovirus is ok though, cuz natural.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    _John_ wrote: »
    susan100df wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.

    Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.

    I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.

    I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.

    You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.

    Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.

    100% safe anything is a fallacy...

    How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?
  • senecarr
    senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
    _John_ wrote: »
    susan100df wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.

    Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.

    I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.

    I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.

    You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.

    Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.

    100% safe anything is a fallacy...

    How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?

    How do you know there was no ill effect? If you get cancer 20 years later, can you be sure it wasn't something in that one apple you had that one day?
    Honestly, all food is 100% not safe. Everyone I know who's died ate food at some point.
  • FunkyTobias
    FunkyTobias Posts: 1,776 Member
    _John_ wrote: »
    susan100df wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.

    Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.

    I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.

    I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.

    You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.

    Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.

    100% safe anything is a fallacy...

    How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?

    Posterior probability is always 100% or 0%.

    Prior probability is never 100% or 0%.
  • _John_
    _John_ Posts: 8,646 Member
    _John_ wrote: »
    susan100df wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.

    Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.

    I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.

    I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.

    You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.

    Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.

    100% safe anything is a fallacy...

    How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?

    no, not at all. You just exposed your body to all sorts of substances with potential negative chronic/acute effects.

    You do this every time you breath, drink water, touch anything.

    Most of the time you happened to expose yourself to low enough concentrations that the exposure caused no observable adverse effect.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    _John_ wrote: »
    susan100df wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.

    Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.

    I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.

    I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.

    You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.

    Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.

    100% safe anything is a fallacy...

    How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?

    How do you know there was no ill effect? If you get cancer 20 years later, can you be sure it wasn't something in that one apple you had that one day?
    Honestly, all food is 100% not safe. Everyone I know who's died ate food at some point.

    That is a rather silly argument. The fact that they died doesn't mean the food killed them.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    _John_ wrote: »
    susan100df wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.

    Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.

    I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.

    I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.

    You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.

    Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.

    100% safe anything is a fallacy...

    How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?

    How do you know there was no ill effect? If you get cancer 20 years later, can you be sure it wasn't something in that one apple you had that one day?
    Honestly, all food is 100% not safe. Everyone I know who's died ate food at some point.

    The odds that an apple eaten 20 years ago would cause cancer today are far less than the odds that all GMO foods are not harmful.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    _John_ wrote: »
    _John_ wrote: »
    susan100df wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.

    Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.

    I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.

    I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.

    You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.

    Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.

    100% safe anything is a fallacy...

    How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?

    no, not at all. You just exposed your body to all sorts of substances with potential negative chronic/acute effects.

    You do this every time you breath, drink water, touch anything.

    Most of the time you happened to expose yourself to low enough concentrations that the exposure caused no observable adverse effect.

    Why wouldn't that mean 'safe'? No harm no foul, right?
  • senecarr
    senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    _John_ wrote: »
    susan100df wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.

    Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.

    I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.

    I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.

    You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.

    Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.

    100% safe anything is a fallacy...

    How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?

    How do you know there was no ill effect? If you get cancer 20 years later, can you be sure it wasn't something in that one apple you had that one day?
    Honestly, all food is 100% not safe. Everyone I know who's died ate food at some point.

    That is a rather silly argument. The fact that they died doesn't mean the food killed them.
    xKMV8.jpg

  • FunkyTobias
    FunkyTobias Posts: 1,776 Member
    _John_ wrote: »
    _John_ wrote: »
    susan100df wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.

    Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.

    I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.

    I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.

    You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.

    Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.

    100% safe anything is a fallacy...

    How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?

    no, not at all. You just exposed your body to all sorts of substances with potential negative chronic/acute effects.

    You do this every time you breath, drink water, touch anything.

    Most of the time you happened to expose yourself to low enough concentrations that the exposure caused no observable adverse effect.

    Why wouldn't that mean 'safe'? No harm no foul, right?

    And by that definition, organic is no safer than conventional.

    Crops treated with approved pesticides are no safer than those that aren't

    What part of this don't you understand?
  • _John_
    _John_ Posts: 8,646 Member
    _John_ wrote: »
    _John_ wrote: »
    susan100df wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.

    Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.

    I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.

    I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.

    You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.

    Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.

    100% safe anything is a fallacy...

    How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?

    no, not at all. You just exposed your body to all sorts of substances with potential negative chronic/acute effects.

    You do this every time you breath, drink water, touch anything.

    Most of the time you happened to expose yourself to low enough concentrations that the exposure caused no observable adverse effect.

    Why wouldn't that mean 'safe'? No harm no foul, right?

    thank you for agreeing that exposure to pesticide residues on foods below NOELS is insignificant, and thus going through the logic rounds as to why avoiding conventional produce for the reason of avoiding pesticides is pointless.
  • senecarr
    senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
    _John_ wrote: »
    _John_ wrote: »
    susan100df wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.

    Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.

    I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.

    I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.

    You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.

    Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.

    100% safe anything is a fallacy...

    How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?

    no, not at all. You just exposed your body to all sorts of substances with potential negative chronic/acute effects.

    You do this every time you breath, drink water, touch anything.

    Most of the time you happened to expose yourself to low enough concentrations that the exposure caused no observable adverse effect.

    Why wouldn't that mean 'safe'? No harm no foul, right?

    It's binary thinking in a Bayesian landscape.
    Cancer isn't always the one time you got bit by a radioactive spider type events. It's the 20 times in a life you got minor sunburns that you didn't even register, on top of the 1 week you forgot to eat a single antixoident orange, and the 30 times you stood next to someone who wasn't smoking outside at the moment, but they were 2 minutes ago, and those 3 weightlifting sessions you skipped in the 80s, etc.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    _John_ wrote: »
    _John_ wrote: »
    susan100df wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.

    Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.

    I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.

    I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.

    You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.

    Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.

    100% safe anything is a fallacy...

    How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?

    no, not at all. You just exposed your body to all sorts of substances with potential negative chronic/acute effects.

    You do this every time you breath, drink water, touch anything.

    Most of the time you happened to expose yourself to low enough concentrations that the exposure caused no observable adverse effect.

    Why wouldn't that mean 'safe'? No harm no foul, right?

    And by that definition, organic is no safer than conventional.

    Crops treated with approved pesticides are no safer than those that aren't

    What part of this don't you understand?

    All of it. Though I never said I thought crops treated with pesticides were not safe, I don't see how making such a leap is logical.
  • senecarr
    senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    _John_ wrote: »
    _John_ wrote: »
    susan100df wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.

    Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.

    I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.

    I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.

    You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.

    Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.

    100% safe anything is a fallacy...

    How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?

    no, not at all. You just exposed your body to all sorts of substances with potential negative chronic/acute effects.

    You do this every time you breath, drink water, touch anything.

    Most of the time you happened to expose yourself to low enough concentrations that the exposure caused no observable adverse effect.

    Why wouldn't that mean 'safe'? No harm no foul, right?

    It's binary thinking in a Bayesian landscape.
    Cancer isn't always the one time you got bit by a radioactive spider type events. It's the 20 times in a life you got minor sunburns that you didn't even register, on top of the 1 week you forgot to eat a single antixoident orange, and the 30 times you stood next to someone who wasn't smoking outside at the moment, but they were 2 minutes ago, and those 3 weightlifting sessions you skipped in the 80s, etc.

    And sometimes you did none of those things, did everything right, and you get it anyway.
  • FunkyTobias
    FunkyTobias Posts: 1,776 Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    _John_ wrote: »
    _John_ wrote: »
    susan100df wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.

    Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.

    I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.

    I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.

    You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.

    Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.

    100% safe anything is a fallacy...

    How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?

    no, not at all. You just exposed your body to all sorts of substances with potential negative chronic/acute effects.

    You do this every time you breath, drink water, touch anything.

    Most of the time you happened to expose yourself to low enough concentrations that the exposure caused no observable adverse effect.

    Why wouldn't that mean 'safe'? No harm no foul, right?

    It's binary thinking in a Bayesian landscape.
    .

    Oh, I'm totally stealing this


  • Carlos_421
    Carlos_421 Posts: 5,132 Member
    So do I have to eat clean to lose weight or not?
  • kirstinlee
    kirstinlee Posts: 152 Member
    Nage3000 wrote: »
    @FunkyTobias

    Using internet memes to dispel internet memes...

    817ckwt9nb0q.gif

    That is my new favorite reaction gif of all time. Jesus Christ.
  • kirstinlee
    kirstinlee Posts: 152 Member
    _John_ wrote: »
    oh shame, shame, shame...

    I see bars on a user that did not have them after their first post. I think this means we can just dismiss anything they're saying as they are obviously a troublemaker.

    What do the bars mean? I see them every time I venture into a thread like this but have never seen any explanation for them.
  • provencal73
    provencal73 Posts: 1,275 Member
    By far the best debate I've read today.
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    _John_ wrote: »
    susan100df wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.

    Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.

    I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.

    I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.

    You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.

    Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.

    100% safe anything is a fallacy...

    How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?

    How do you know there was no ill effect? If you get cancer 20 years later, can you be sure it wasn't something in that one apple you had that one day?
    Honestly, all food is 100% not safe. Everyone I know who's died ate food at some point.

    That is a rather silly argument. The fact that they died doesn't mean the food killed them.

    It is a silly argument. It's also an argument I've seen made completely seriously against aspartame just the other day on here.
  • _John_
    _John_ Posts: 8,646 Member
    People who have warnings for breaking forum rules but have not yet crossed the line of being banned. They have some privileges revoked as well.
  • Carlos_421
    Carlos_421 Posts: 5,132 Member
    kirstinlee wrote: »
    _John_ wrote: »
    oh shame, shame, shame...

    I see bars on a user that did not have them after their first post. I think this means we can just dismiss anything they're saying as they are obviously a troublemaker.

    What do the bars mean? I see them every time I venture into a thread like this but have never seen any explanation for them.

    Forum jail. Basically, they haven't been banned but they're on probation for guidelines violations.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    if you are eating organic you are not avoiding pesticides or chemicals, chances are you not minimizing them either..

    not sure why you dont understand that.

    I understand that I can avoid added pesticides and chemicals, and that would absolutely mean less.

    so you avoid pesticides by consuming pesticides..?

    that is a neat trick ..

    I can avoid added pesticides by eating food not treated with pesticides. It's a very old trick.

    and you know they are not treated with pesticides, how exactly?

    Because I grow them and don't treat them.

    so you get 100% of your fruits and vegetables from your garden 100% of the time? If yes you are in about .001% of the population...

    So, you are saying that if 100% of my food is not home grown without added pesticides that none of it is?

    you did not answer my question ..do you get 100% of your fruits and vegetables from your garden?
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    _John_ wrote: »
    _John_ wrote: »
    susan100df wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.

    Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.

    I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.

    I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.

    You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.

    Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.

    100% safe anything is a fallacy...

    How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?

    no, not at all. You just exposed your body to all sorts of substances with potential negative chronic/acute effects.

    You do this every time you breath, drink water, touch anything.

    Most of the time you happened to expose yourself to low enough concentrations that the exposure caused no observable adverse effect.

    Why wouldn't that mean 'safe'? No harm no foul, right?

    It's binary thinking in a Bayesian landscape.
    Cancer isn't always the one time you got bit by a radioactive spider type events. It's the 20 times in a life you got minor sunburns that you didn't even register, on top of the 1 week you forgot to eat a single antixoident orange, and the 30 times you stood next to someone who wasn't smoking outside at the moment, but they were 2 minutes ago, and those 3 weightlifting sessions you skipped in the 80s, etc.

    How do you know what it was?
  • _John_
    _John_ Posts: 8,646 Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    _John_ wrote: »
    _John_ wrote: »
    susan100df wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.

    Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.

    I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.

    I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.

    You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.

    Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.

    100% safe anything is a fallacy...

    How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?

    no, not at all. You just exposed your body to all sorts of substances with potential negative chronic/acute effects.

    You do this every time you breath, drink water, touch anything.

    Most of the time you happened to expose yourself to low enough concentrations that the exposure caused no observable adverse effect.

    Why wouldn't that mean 'safe'? No harm no foul, right?

    It's binary thinking in a Bayesian landscape.
    Cancer isn't always the one time you got bit by a radioactive spider type events. It's the 20 times in a life you got minor sunburns that you didn't even register, on top of the 1 week you forgot to eat a single antixoident orange, and the 30 times you stood next to someone who wasn't smoking outside at the moment, but they were 2 minutes ago, and those 3 weightlifting sessions you skipped in the 80s, etc.

    How do you know what it was?

    Certain chemicals/exposures have characteristic cancers, but sometimes it's really muddied.

    You often haven't a clue exactly, especially the common cancers.
  • FunkyTobias
    FunkyTobias Posts: 1,776 Member
    _John_ wrote: »
    _John_ wrote: »
    susan100df wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.

    Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.

    I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.

    I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.

    You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.

    Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.

    100% safe anything is a fallacy...

    How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?

    no, not at all. You just exposed your body to all sorts of substances with potential negative chronic/acute effects.

    You do this every time you breath, drink water, touch anything.

    Most of the time you happened to expose yourself to low enough concentrations that the exposure caused no observable adverse effect.

    Why wouldn't that mean 'safe'? No harm no foul, right?

    And by that definition, organic is no safer than conventional.

    Crops treated with approved pesticides are no safer than those that aren't

    What part of this don't you understand?

    All of it. Though I never said I thought crops treated with pesticides were not safe, I don't see how making such a leap is logical.

    Why else would anyone want to minimize their exposure to pesticides?
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    _John_ wrote: »
    _John_ wrote: »
    susan100df wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.

    Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.

    I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.

    I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.

    You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.

    Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.

    100% safe anything is a fallacy...

    How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?

    no, not at all. You just exposed your body to all sorts of substances with potential negative chronic/acute effects.

    You do this every time you breath, drink water, touch anything.

    Most of the time you happened to expose yourself to low enough concentrations that the exposure caused no observable adverse effect.

    Why wouldn't that mean 'safe'? No harm no foul, right?

    And by that definition, organic is no safer than conventional.

    Crops treated with approved pesticides are no safer than those that aren't

    What part of this don't you understand?

    All of it. Though I never said I thought crops treated with pesticides were not safe, I don't see how making such a leap is logical.

    Why else would anyone want to minimize their exposure to pesticides?

    I wasn't the one who said that, but I don't see why "not safe" would always be the answer. I'd bet "don't know' is just as common.
  • FunkyTobias
    FunkyTobias Posts: 1,776 Member
    _John_ wrote: »
    _John_ wrote: »
    susan100df wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    "Treated" by whom? There are no pesticide free plants.

    Treated by a human. I've never known anyone to refer to a plant's own defense system as treatment.

    I tend to trust acts of men over acts of plants. Humans have a nominal interest in not killing me, plants have an outright incentive to see me as little different from an aphid.

    I agree mostly. Monsanto employees are eating the GMO foods too.

    You can't deny that companies (humans) have caused people to become very sick and/or die because they put profit over safety. The first thing that comes to mind is companies releasing bad stuff into the water supply and lots of people get cancer in the area. It cost more to dispose the bad stuff properly.

    Like I said I eat and feed my family GMO foods. I just don't have trust that it's 100% safe.

    100% safe anything is a fallacy...

    How so? If I pick and apple, eat it and suffer no ill effects, wasn't that apple 100% safe?

    no, not at all. You just exposed your body to all sorts of substances with potential negative chronic/acute effects.

    You do this every time you breath, drink water, touch anything.

    Most of the time you happened to expose yourself to low enough concentrations that the exposure caused no observable adverse effect.

    Why wouldn't that mean 'safe'? No harm no foul, right?

    And by that definition, organic is no safer than conventional.

    Crops treated with approved pesticides are no safer than those that aren't

    What part of this don't you understand?

    All of it. Though I never said I thought crops treated with pesticides were not safe, I don't see how making such a leap is logical.

    Why else would anyone want to minimize their exposure to pesticides?

    I wasn't the one who said that, but I don't see why "not safe" would always be the answer. I'd bet "don't know' is just as common.

    Don't know what?
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Your comments about chemicals are ridiculous. Of course all things are made of chemical compounds, whether found in nature or the lab. But, people eating organic or raw are trying to avoid or minimize the amount of pesticides, processed foods and toxins in their bodies. Most of what you have written are opinions, not fact, and describing others' choices as ignorant or nonsense just proves that you are the one who is both!

    you do realize that organic foods and vegetables are treated with pesticides, correct?

    Some are. You do realize that many people grow food that is not treated with pesticides, correct?

    The post you replied to said "avoid or minimize" pesticides in your body. If you want to minimize pesticides organic may do that

    if you are eating organic you are not avoiding pesticides or chemicals, chances are you not minimizing them either..

    not sure why you dont understand that.

    I understand that I can avoid added pesticides and chemicals, and that would absolutely mean less.

    so you avoid pesticides by consuming pesticides..?

    that is a neat trick ..

    I can avoid added pesticides by eating food not treated with pesticides. It's a very old trick.

    and you know they are not treated with pesticides, how exactly?

    Because I grow them and don't treat them.

    so you get 100% of your fruits and vegetables from your garden 100% of the time? If yes you are in about .001% of the population...

    So, you are saying that if 100% of my food is not home grown without added pesticides that none of it is?

    you did not answer my question ..do you get 100% of your fruits and vegetables from your garden?

    And you didn't answer mine. My fruit trees aren't in the garden.