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Low carb... Is it a diet fad?
Replies
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Wetcoaster wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »So, @Wetcoaster, how do you really feel about low carb diets?
I think people should do what they can keep to long term. I am however a geek for science
Try Phinney and Volek' the Art and Science of Low CArbohydrate Living or The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance for more science. Peter Attia's blog is good food for your inner geek.
A high protein low carb diet is often plagued by many of the high protein complications mentioned in the article. Most low carb diets focus on high fat instead.
The brain benefits of a keto diet seems to becoming more widely known and supported. Epilepsy, schizophrenia and dementia can all possibly benefit depending on circumstances.
Ketosis isn't a miracle cure but it does have some health benefits. The same goes for low carb.0 -
The brain benefits of a keto diet seems to becoming more widely known and supported.
Nothing posted suggests that keto has "brain benefits." LOL.
Most people don't have epilepsy, and the research about the others has not panned out (the Med diet shows more promise for dementia).Ketosis isn't a miracle cure but it does have some health benefits. The same goes for low carb.
Haven't shown that. Is a low carb diet with lots of protein and vegetables likely better than a SAD with lots of soda, extra low protein, and refined everything. Sure, probably, but then the difference isn't really carbs. Compare the latter diet to a traditional 80% carb diet based on whole foods and lots of fruit and veg and whole food starches and the differences will likely be even more extreme, even if the second has many more carbs (as the SAD is only about 50% carbs).0 -
Here's a discussion of the Volek and Phinney study (from a quite opinionated source, but it still seems pertinent):
http://anthonycolpo.com/why-low-carb-diets-are-terrible-for-athletes-part-2/Let’s start with a study frequently cited by the fat adaptation believers, which examined the effect of a ketogenic diet in six moderately obese, untrained subjects. Stephen Phinney and his colleagues placed them on a zero-carb diet of lean meat, fish, or fowl for six weeks, supplemented with minerals and vitamins and providing 500-750 calories per day. At the start of the study, the subjects performed a treadmill endurance test with a mean workload of 76% VO2 max and a mean time to subjective exhaustion of 168 minutes. After six weeks, the subjects lost a mean 10.6 kilograms, were able to perform the test at only 60% VO2max, a lower heart rate, and a mean time to exhaustion on the treadmill of 249 minutes[1].
Wow, a performance increase of 81 minutes, simply by eliminating carbohydrates! Damn, I’m throwing out the noodles, changing my last name to Atkins-Moore-Dukan-Eades, and quitting my job to become a professional power-walker! London 2012, here I come, baby!
Oops, hang on a minute. I think I see a few problems with this study. Do you see them too?
--The study involved untrained and very unfit subjects. So the improved results at the end of the study could simply have been due to improved fitness and acclimation to the walking test, not to any special "fuel-mobilizing" effect of the low-carb diet;
---The tested activity was walking, which is about as low intensity a physical activity as they come. The lower the intensity of the exercise, the less of a factor glycogen depletion will be. But the fact remains that the fitness gains conferred by walking are limited, and most sport activities require a far higher level of exertion;
---There was no high-carbohydrate control group. How on earth can this study be used to argue for the comparative benefits of low-carb nutrition in physical activity when there was no comparison diet?
For someone to have to work at over 70% VO2max simply from walking indicates very poor starting fitness. Once the subjects experienced initial adaptation and fitness improvements, the intensity of the exercise was not increased commensurately. So what would have happened if the subjects were forced to keep performing at a higher level of VO2max, rather than the leisurely 60% that was observed in the second treadmill session?
What would have happened if there had been another group in the study following a high-carbohydrate diet?
These questions were addressed by a subsequent study also conducted by Phinney and co. This time, eight untrained, obese females followed either a zero-carb diet or a carbohydrate-containing diet for 6 weeks. Both groups ate lean meat, fish, or fowl. Margarine was given to the zero-carb group for extra fat, while the carb group received grape juice supplying seventy-five grams of carbohydrate daily. Both groups consumed 830 calories per day.
Unlike the previous study, the subjects performed their endurance tests on a stationary cycle. And unlike the previous study, the initial VO2max target was maintained for all subsequent tests. After one week, endurance at around 75% VO2max dropped by a whopping 50% in the zero-carb group - and that's where it stayed for the rest of the study. In contrast, the carbohydrate group experienced no change in their endurance performance. Glycogen levels in the thighs of the zero-carbers also plummeted by half, but remained unchanged in the carbohydrate group. Despite their markedly different carbohydrate intakes, both groups showed similar levels of ketones throughout the study (the minimum threshold for ketosis rises in vigorously exercising individuals, as we'll discuss shortly). Rather than ketosis, the decline in endurance was highly correlated with the decrease in muscle glycogen stores[2].
Astute readers may be thinking: “OK Anthony, this study shows that zero-carb diets suck dirty workout socks when it comes to exercise, but 75 grams doesn’t exactly constitute a high-carb diet, either!”
Very good, my observant little grasshoppers. But remember, obese people are carrying a lot more body fat to use as fuel than their lean counterparts, and they tolerate severe calorie restriction far better, losing less lean tissue in the process. For lean folks engaged in regular strenuous exercise, a daily carbohydrate intake of seventy-five grams is nowhere near sufficient, as we’ll find out shortly....
More at the link.0 -
Wetcoaster wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »So, @Wetcoaster, how do you really feel about low carb diets?
I think people should do what they can keep to long term. I am however a geek for science
Try Phinney and Volek' the Art and Science of Low CArbohydrate Living or The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance for more science. Peter Attia's blog is good food for your inner geek.
A high protein low carb diet is often plagued by many of the high protein complications mentioned in the article. Most low carb diets focus on high fat instead.
The brain benefits of a keto diet seems to becoming more widely known and supported. Epilepsy, schizophrenia and dementia can all possibly benefit depending on circumstances.
Ketosis isn't a miracle cure but it does have some health benefits. The same goes for low carb.Wetcoaster wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »So, @Wetcoaster, how do you really feel about low carb diets?
I think people should do what they can keep to long term. I am however a geek for science
Try Phinney and Volek' the Art and Science of Low CArbohydrate Living or The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance for more science. Peter Attia's blog is good food for your inner geek.
A high protein low carb diet is often plagued by many of the high protein complications mentioned in the article. Most low carb diets focus on high fat instead.
The brain benefits of a keto diet seems to becoming more widely known and supported. Epilepsy, schizophrenia and dementia can all possibly benefit depending on circumstances.
Ketosis isn't a miracle cure but it does have some health benefits. The same goes for low carb.
More science?0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »The brain benefits of a keto diet seems to becoming more widely known and supported.
Nothing posted suggests that keto has "brain benefits." LOL.
Most people don't have epilepsy, and the research about the others has not panned out (the Med diet shows more promise for dementia).Ketosis isn't a miracle cure but it does have some health benefits. The same goes for low carb.
Haven't shown that. Is a low carb diet with lots of protein and vegetables likely better than a SAD with lots of soda, extra low protein, and refined everything. Sure, probably, but then the difference isn't really carbs. Compare the latter diet to a traditional 80% carb diet based on whole foods and lots of fruit and veg and whole food starches and the differences will likely be even more extreme, even if the second has many more carbs (as the SAD is only about 50% carbs).
There is medical evidence out there there a very low carb high fat diet can offer benefits to health issues that affect the brain, like epilepsy, schizophrenia and dementia. Even Parkinson's patients and those with some brain cancers may benefit from the diet.
And I never said most people have epilepsy. I think that is fairly widely accepted. LOL where did you pull that from?
And you want me to show that keto has some health benefits? LOL I think that is what is being discussed. I think if you want more, you can look that up further yourself. Read Volek's book or Attia's blog. It might be of interest to you since your approximate 150g of carbs per day would qualify you as low carb in many people's books. You may as well read up on how the woe could be beneficial for your health.... Or not
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What you're looking for is called "Ketogenics", low-carb high-fat. It's a lifestyle and a complete change to mainstream eating misconceptions.
Carbohydrates are just sugars, sugars which need insulin to be processed, insulin which spikes when you eat carbs and stops the fat burning process.
Do the research, learn about the benefits of eliminating sugar from your diet, eliminating carbs from your diet, and adding filling and delicious fats and proteins to it.
Is it fact? Yes, Ketogenics is studied pretty extensively, with many scientific books written about it. The studies done around low-carb diets are incredibly telling.
Is it long-term sustainable? Absolutely, becoming "Keto-adapted" transforms how your body processes carbs and fats, and changes your metabolism significantly for the better.
Is it a fad? Nope, the traction Ketogenics is gaining for weight loss, as well as athletic performance, is tremendous. I think it will be the dominant eating diet in the next 10 years, and low-fat high-sugar high-carb will be considered one of the most harmful in human diet eating history.
What do I think? Everyone should give Ketogenics at least a legitimate 3 month shot. No carbs for 3 months. It's a challenge a lot of people can't accomplish. Why? It separates those who are dedicated to changing their body, and those who buy Fitbits then eat pancakes, burgers, and drink beer all weekend long.
Some of the cons: Bread is gone, that's tragic for a bread lover like myself. Lettuce is a poor sandwich substitute for real bread. Another con is how obsessed with carb counting you become, and even things with moderate amounts of carbs (20g) becomes entirely too much i.e. Fruit, yogurt, rice cakes
If you can overcome the first month of hurdles, change your mindset and outlook on what food is and what it means in your life, Ketogenics will absolutely lead to weight loss, fitness love, and eventually massive physical athletic benefits.
Thank you! Couldn't have said it better myself. I've been on and off low carb for about 2 years and I've found that my body loves low carb even if I want to have a dessert or something like that every now and then, which I do on designated days. I tried to go back to low-fat and regular American diet and I quickly became lethargic, foggy mind and could not understand why I felt so bad. I had no energy. I never felt bad on the low-carb way of eating. Everything you said is completely accurate, factual. My energy is amazing, it's so much more easy to eat at the deficit I require to lose fat and I've come to enjoy all of my different vegetable dishes I make every day. I enjoy butter, coconut oil and have a wide variety of foods that satisfy me. I'm never hungry. In fact, I have to make sure I eat enough because this way of eating takes your appetite away. I am training quite a bit and I supplement with Green Magma which gives me a ton of vitamins and energy to prevent myself from becoming fatigued after my workout. I'm happy with the diet, my body has decided for me that this is the way to go as a lifestyle and I eat carbs when I want to on designated days which is more than enough to satisfy me (once a week). Also, I've notice that I on those days, I just am not as enthusiastic as I use to be for my carb days. The main problem with carbs is the poor wheat has been genetically modified and is making people sick. (research it, google Wheat Brain or Wheat Belly). All kinds of things disappeared I noticed when I didn't eat carbs. Inflammation, unbelievable cravings. My mind is not foggy and I have tons of energy. Why wouldn't anyone want to feel this way. Because they want carbs? I guess that's a good reason. But like you said, this will most likely become convention, eating low carb; eventually the government will have to change the pyramid but they're going to have to go back to growing wheat the way nature intended it because this modified wheat is really a synthetic product but it does taste good.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »The brain benefits of a keto diet seems to becoming more widely known and supported.
Nothing posted suggests that keto has "brain benefits." LOL.
Most people don't have epilepsy, and the research about the others has not panned out (the Med diet shows more promise for dementia).Ketosis isn't a miracle cure but it does have some health benefits. The same goes for low carb.
Haven't shown that. Is a low carb diet with lots of protein and vegetables likely better than a SAD with lots of soda, extra low protein, and refined everything. Sure, probably, but then the difference isn't really carbs. Compare the latter diet to a traditional 80% carb diet based on whole foods and lots of fruit and veg and whole food starches and the differences will likely be even more extreme, even if the second has many more carbs (as the SAD is only about 50% carbs).
There is medical evidence out there there a very low carb high fat diet can offer benefits to health issues that affect the brain, like epilepsy, schizophrenia and dementia. Even Parkinson's patients and those with some brain cancers may benefit from the diet.
And I never said most people have epilepsy. I think that is fairly widely accepted. LOL where did you pull that from?
And you want me to show that keto has some health benefits? LOL I think that is what is being discussed. I think if you want more, you can look that up further yourself. Read Volek's book or Attia's blog. It might be of interest to you since your approximate 150g of carbs per day would qualify you as low carb in many people's books. You may as well read up on how the woe could be beneficial for your health.... Or not
No, there is nothing suggesting actual benefits to people with schizophenia or dementia (neither of which I have, LOL). The best evidence as to benefits to people with Alzheimers is the Med Diet, which is similar to what I try to do (and vastly different from what you push). Volek and Attia have been debunked from what I've read, and I continue to think that if low carb were beneficial for athletes (or not detrimental and helpful in keeping weight down) it would have been widely adopted. It has not been adopted much at all.0 -
Some of the cons: Bread is gone, that's tragic for a bread lover like myself. Lettuce is a poor sandwich substitute for real bread. Another con is how obsessed with carb counting you become, and even things with moderate amounts of carbs (20g) becomes entirely too much i.e. Fruit, yogurt, rice cakes
I found it was easier to not count, but rather eat super low carb foods only, like from the south beach phase 1 or Atkins approved foods list when I was on low carb. Now i think I'm on moderare carb lol. Interestingly enough, I went to red Robin and had a lettuce bun tonight. Super good, didn't miss the bread at all.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »The brain benefits of a keto diet seems to becoming more widely known and supported.
Nothing posted suggests that keto has "brain benefits." LOL.
Most people don't have epilepsy, and the research about the others has not panned out (the Med diet shows more promise for dementia).Ketosis isn't a miracle cure but it does have some health benefits. The same goes for low carb.
Haven't shown that. Is a low carb diet with lots of protein and vegetables likely better than a SAD with lots of soda, extra low protein, and refined everything. Sure, probably, but then the difference isn't really carbs. Compare the latter diet to a traditional 80% carb diet based on whole foods and lots of fruit and veg and whole food starches and the differences will likely be even more extreme, even if the second has many more carbs (as the SAD is only about 50% carbs).
There is medical evidence out there there a very low carb high fat diet can offer benefits to health issues that affect the brain, like epilepsy, schizophrenia and dementia. Even Parkinson's patients and those with some brain cancers may benefit from the diet.
And I never said most people have epilepsy. I think that is fairly widely accepted. LOL where did you pull that from?
And you want me to show that keto has some health benefits? LOL I think that is what is being discussed. I think if you want more, you can look that up further yourself. Read Volek's book or Attia's blog. It might be of interest to you since your approximate 150g of carbs per day would qualify you as low carb in many people's books. You may as well read up on how the woe could be beneficial for your health.... Or not
No, there is nothing suggesting actual benefits to people with schizophenia or dementia (neither of which I have, LOL). The best evidence as to benefits to people with Alzheimers is the Med Diet, which is similar to what I try to do (and vastly different from what you push). Volek and Attia have been debunked from what I've read, and I continue to think that if low carb were beneficial for athletes (or not detrimental and helpful in keeping weight down) it would have been widely adopted. It has not been adopted much at all.
What I have seen most recently recommended from scientific research for the prevention of Alzheimer's and dementia, is the MIND diet. (some similarities to Mediterranean or Dash diet)
It would not be low carb, and advocates eating foods such as blueberries, green leafy vegetables, berries, beans, whole grains, fish, poultry, nuts, olive oil, etc.
http://www.todaysgeriatricmedicine.com/archive/0715p10.shtml (has studies listed at bottom)
https://www.rush.edu/news/diet-may-help-prevent-alzheimers (rush university who did the initial research I believe)
The best part is it includes my absolute favourite foods... blueberries, strawberries, chicken, fish...
Edited to fix quoting fail0 -
blankiefinder wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »The brain benefits of a keto diet seems to becoming more widely known and supported.
Nothing posted suggests that keto has "brain benefits." LOL.
Most people don't have epilepsy, and the research about the others has not panned out (the Med diet shows more promise for dementia).Ketosis isn't a miracle cure but it does have some health benefits. The same goes for low carb.
Haven't shown that. Is a low carb diet with lots of protein and vegetables likely better than a SAD with lots of soda, extra low protein, and refined everything. Sure, probably, but then the difference isn't really carbs. Compare the latter diet to a traditional 80% carb diet based on whole foods and lots of fruit and veg and whole food starches and the differences will likely be even more extreme, even if the second has many more carbs (as the SAD is only about 50% carbs).
There is medical evidence out there there a very low carb high fat diet can offer benefits to health issues that affect the brain, like epilepsy, schizophrenia and dementia. Even Parkinson's patients and those with some brain cancers may benefit from the diet.
And I never said most people have epilepsy. I think that is fairly widely accepted. LOL where did you pull that from?
And you want me to show that keto has some health benefits? LOL I think that is what is being discussed. I think if you want more, you can look that up further yourself. Read Volek's book or Attia's blog. It might be of interest to you since your approximate 150g of carbs per day would qualify you as low carb in many people's books. You may as well read up on how the woe could be beneficial for your health.... Or not
No, there is nothing suggesting actual benefits to people with schizophenia or dementia (neither of which I have, LOL). The best evidence as to benefits to people with Alzheimers is the Med Diet, which is similar to what I try to do (and vastly different from what you push). Volek and Attia have been debunked from what I've read, and I continue to think that if low carb were beneficial for athletes (or not detrimental and helpful in keeping weight down) it would have been widely adopted. It has not been adopted much at all.
What I have seen most recently recommended from scientific research for the prevention of Alzheimer's and dementia, is the MIND diet. (some similarities to Mediterranean or Dash diet)
It would not be low carb, and advocates eating foods such as blueberries, green leafy vegetables, berries, beans, whole grains, fish, poultry, nuts, olive oil, etc.
http://www.todaysgeriatricmedicine.com/archive/0715p10.shtml (has studies listed at bottom)
https://www.rush.edu/news/diet-may-help-prevent-alzheimers (rush university who did the initial research I believe)
The best part is it includes my absolute favourite foods... blueberries, strawberries, chicken, fish...
Edited to fix quoting fail
Thanks. I haven't seen any of the stuff on MIND.
The only study I have seen on Alzheimers and Keto was this one. And it was very very preliminary research. All the more recent stuff I saw indicated the Med diet was much better.0 -
What you're looking for is called "Ketogenics", low-carb high-fat. It's a lifestyle and a complete change to mainstream eating misconceptions.
Carbohydrates are just sugars, sugars which need insulin to be processed, insulin which spikes when you eat carbs and stops the fat burning process.
Do the research, learn about the benefits of eliminating sugar from your diet, eliminating carbs from your diet, and adding filling and delicious fats and proteins to it.
Is it fact? Yes, Ketogenics is studied pretty extensively, with many scientific books written about it. The studies done around low-carb diets are incredibly telling.
Is it long-term sustainable? Absolutely, becoming "Keto-adapted" transforms how your body processes carbs and fats, and changes your metabolism significantly for the better.
Is it a fad? Nope, the traction Ketogenics is gaining for weight loss, as well as athletic performance, is tremendous. I think it will be the dominant eating diet in the next 10 years, and low-fat high-sugar high-carb will be considered one of the most harmful in human diet eating history.
What do I think? Everyone should give Ketogenics at least a legitimate 3 month shot. No carbs for 3 months. It's a challenge a lot of people can't accomplish. Why? It separates those who are dedicated to changing their body, and those who buy Fitbits then eat pancakes, burgers, and drink beer all weekend long.
Some of the cons: Bread is gone, that's tragic for a bread lover like myself. Lettuce is a poor sandwich substitute for real bread. Another con is how obsessed with carb counting you become, and even things with moderate amounts of carbs (20g) becomes entirely too much i.e. Fruit, yogurt, rice cakes
If you can overcome the first month of hurdles, change your mindset and outlook on what food is and what it means in your life, Ketogenics will absolutely lead to weight loss, fitness love, and eventually massive physical athletic benefits.
Thank you! Couldn't have said it better myself. I've been on and off low carb for about 2 years and I've found that my body loves low carb even if I want to have a dessert or something like that every now and then, which I do on designated days. I tried to go back to low-fat and regular American diet and I quickly became lethargic, foggy mind and could not understand why I felt so bad. I had no energy. I never felt bad on the low-carb way of eating. Everything you said is completely accurate, factual. My energy is amazing, it's so much more easy to eat at the deficit I require to lose fat and I've come to enjoy all of my different vegetable dishes I make every day. I enjoy butter, coconut oil and have a wide variety of foods that satisfy me. I'm never hungry. In fact, I have to make sure I eat enough because this way of eating takes your appetite away. I am training quite a bit and I supplement with Green Magma which gives me a ton of vitamins and energy to prevent myself from becoming fatigued after my workout. I'm happy with the diet, my body has decided for me that this is the way to go as a lifestyle and I eat carbs when I want to on designated days which is more than enough to satisfy me (once a week). Also, I've notice that I on those days, I just am not as enthusiastic as I use to be for my carb days. The main problem with carbs is the poor wheat has been genetically modified and is making people sick. (research it, google Wheat Brain or Wheat Belly). All kinds of things disappeared I noticed when I didn't eat carbs. Inflammation, unbelievable cravings. My mind is not foggy and I have tons of energy. Why wouldn't anyone want to feel this way. Because they want carbs? I guess that's a good reason. But like you said, this will most likely become convention, eating low carb; eventually the government will have to change the pyramid but they're going to have to go back to growing wheat the way nature intended it because this modified wheat is really a synthetic product but it does taste good.
Actually what you quote was highly unfactual. In fact, I pointed out the majority of it's flaws around page 8. Additionally, Wheat Belly and Wheat brain have been highly debunked based on cherry picked science. Books, especially ones dedicated to sell a lifestyle do NOT give you a foundation of good knowledge.
I suspect when you went off your low carb diet and went back to a higher carb diet, than included a lot of junk food, which is why you were probably craving a lot of food and not satiated. Because a large portion of us on the forums have found very easy ways to feel full on high carb diets. And when have done comparisons with many other members what I found is: 1. their veggie intake is very low, 2. fruit intake very low, 3. fat cuts of meat instead of lean. Essentially, the two categories with the highest satiety ratings (protein and fiber) where low.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Really. I wouldn't have thought that given the energy you expend on low carb posts. Cheers mate.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I have never said, nor have I seen, anyone say that LCHF is not a WOE that one can choose to utilize as a weight loss strategy. However, what we are saying is that LCHF will not make you lose weight faster, is not healthier, and is not some magical cure all for every known disease known to man.
To your last point, LCHF is totally unnecessary for weight loss or health, and people can achieve the same affects through diet, exercise, and hitting their micros and macros, without LCHF.
So it's just a semantics game where appearing in any discussion of low carbing to say it is "totally unnecessary" is somehow OK as long as you don't say "it isn't a WOE that one can choose".
You won't get the triglyceride / HDL ratio of LCHF on high carbs, to name but one, so your health claims are dubious at best.
I am saying there is nothing magical about it and it is not superior to any other WOE.
and please provide citation for your claim...
my blood panels come back perfect every year and I get about 50% of my calories from carbs....
Do you believe it's inferior to other WOEs?
no
I think it is fine for a WOE for some...my main contention is that it is not superior, more healthy, and that carbs, by themselves, are not bad/unhealthy.
Again, I find this surprising, given your posts on "how do I" rather than "should I" threads, but thanks for the reply!0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Really. I wouldn't have thought that given the energy you expend on low carb posts. Cheers mate.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I have never said, nor have I seen, anyone say that LCHF is not a WOE that one can choose to utilize as a weight loss strategy. However, what we are saying is that LCHF will not make you lose weight faster, is not healthier, and is not some magical cure all for every known disease known to man.
To your last point, LCHF is totally unnecessary for weight loss or health, and people can achieve the same affects through diet, exercise, and hitting their micros and macros, without LCHF.
So it's just a semantics game where appearing in any discussion of low carbing to say it is "totally unnecessary" is somehow OK as long as you don't say "it isn't a WOE that one can choose".
You won't get the triglyceride / HDL ratio of LCHF on high carbs, to name but one, so your health claims are dubious at best.
I am saying there is nothing magical about it and it is not superior to any other WOE.
and please provide citation for your claim...
my blood panels come back perfect every year and I get about 50% of my calories from carbs....
Do you believe it's inferior to other WOEs?
no
I think it is fine for a WOE for some...my main contention is that it is not superior, more healthy, and that carbs, by themselves, are not bad/unhealthy.
Again, I find this surprising, given your posts on "how do I" rather than "should I" threads, but thanks for the reply!
Many "How do I" threads have OPs stating "It's so hard, I keep going over my set carb amounts..." so telling them "you know, you don't have to do it if you can't sustain it" is a perfectly normal and reasonable post to make, even if low carbers don't tend to see it that way.0 -
Low carb didn't work for me. I was able to do it for about a year and a half but found it to be unmaintainable in the long run. Cons for me:
1. My family wasn't doing it. This meant I had to make my own special food every day, every meal which translated to a lot of missed family dinners and eating alone.
2. Birthdays and parties were always a problem. It's just awkward to have to bring your own food with you and I could see the disappointment in people's face when I didn't try the dishes they spent time specially making.
3. Restaurant are a nightmare. About 95% of the menu is off limits. It's not fun to always be "that guy" who has to bargain with the wait staff over substitutions and putting things on the side
4. Grocery shopping is monotonous. About 85% of what's in there is off limits, including most new items. It's essentially the same old same old spread over a few weeks.
5. Italian food? Fuggedaboutit!
6. The penalties for slipping up are severe. I did Atkins and if I went over, I was sent back to the dungeon of the Induction Phase which meant two weeks straight of 20g of carbs or less each day.
7. I swear if I ate one more egg I was going to start sprouting feathers and begin clucking.
Personally I find CICO to be far far simpler. Eat what want, just less than before and track everything to stay on target. No off limit foods and a high degree of flexibility. If I'm going to eat a big lunch, I have smaller breakfast. If I go over on Tuesday, I can make it up with a deficit on Wednesday or even spread it over two days if necessary. In fact, I plan to do exactly that sort of thing for the Super Bowl so I have much less anxiety about what I might be eating during the game.0 -
peter56765 wrote: »Low carb didn't work for me. I was able to do it for about a year and a half but found it to be unmaintainable in the long run. Cons for me:
1. My family wasn't doing it. This meant I had to make my own special food every day, every meal which translated to a lot of missed family dinners and eating alone.
2. Birthdays and parties were always a problem. It's just awkward to have to bring your own food with you and I could see the disappointment in people's face when I didn't try the dishes they spent time specially making.
3. Restaurant are a nightmare. About 95% of the menu is off limits. It's not fun to always be "that guy" who has to bargain with the wait staff over substitutions and putting things on the side
4. Grocery shopping is monotonous. About 85% of what's in there is off limits, including most new items. It's essentially the same old same old spread over a few weeks.
5. Italian food? Fuggedaboutit!
6. The penalties for slipping up are severe. I did Atkins and if I went over, I was sent back to the dungeon of the Induction Phase which meant two weeks straight of 20g of carbs or less each day.
7. I swear if I ate one more egg I was going to start sprouting feathers and begin clucking.
Personally I find CICO to be far far simpler. Eat what want, just less than before and track everything to stay on target. No off limit foods and a high degree of flexibility. If I'm going to eat a big lunch, I have smaller breakfast. If I go over on Tuesday, I can make it up with a deficit on Wednesday or even spread it over two days if necessary. In fact, I plan to do exactly that sort of thing for the Super Bowl so I have much less anxiety about what I might be eating during the game.
One point to make, CICO isn't a diet, it's an energy balance equation. You are following flexible dieting, if you want to put a name to it.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Really. I wouldn't have thought that given the energy you expend on low carb posts. Cheers mate.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I have never said, nor have I seen, anyone say that LCHF is not a WOE that one can choose to utilize as a weight loss strategy. However, what we are saying is that LCHF will not make you lose weight faster, is not healthier, and is not some magical cure all for every known disease known to man.
To your last point, LCHF is totally unnecessary for weight loss or health, and people can achieve the same affects through diet, exercise, and hitting their micros and macros, without LCHF.
So it's just a semantics game where appearing in any discussion of low carbing to say it is "totally unnecessary" is somehow OK as long as you don't say "it isn't a WOE that one can choose".
You won't get the triglyceride / HDL ratio of LCHF on high carbs, to name but one, so your health claims are dubious at best.
I am saying there is nothing magical about it and it is not superior to any other WOE.
and please provide citation for your claim...
my blood panels come back perfect every year and I get about 50% of my calories from carbs....
Do you believe it's inferior to other WOEs?
no
I think it is fine for a WOE for some...my main contention is that it is not superior, more healthy, and that carbs, by themselves, are not bad/unhealthy.
Again, I find this surprising, given your posts on "how do I" rather than "should I" threads, but thanks for the reply!
Many "How do I" threads have OPs stating "It's so hard, I keep going over my set carb amounts..." so telling them "you know, you don't have to do it if you can't sustain it" is a perfectly normal and reasonable post to make, even if low carbers don't tend to see it that way.
And many don't.0 -
peter56765 wrote: »Low carb didn't work for me. I was able to do it for about a year and a half but found it to be unmaintainable in the long run. Cons for me:
1. My family wasn't doing it. This meant I had to make my own special food every day, every meal which translated to a lot of missed family dinners and eating alone.
2. Birthdays and parties were always a problem. It's just awkward to have to bring your own food with you and I could see the disappointment in people's face when I didn't try the dishes they spent time specially making.
3. Restaurant are a nightmare. About 95% of the menu is off limits. It's not fun to always be "that guy" who has to bargain with the wait staff over substitutions and putting things on the side
4. Grocery shopping is monotonous. About 85% of what's in there is off limits, including most new items. It's essentially the same old same old spread over a few weeks.
5. Italian food? Fuggedaboutit!
6. The penalties for slipping up are severe. I did Atkins and if I went over, I was sent back to the dungeon of the Induction Phase which meant two weeks straight of 20g of carbs or less each day.
7. I swear if I ate one more egg I was going to start sprouting feathers and begin clucking.
Personally I find CICO to be far far simpler. Eat what want, just less than before and track everything to stay on target. No off limit foods and a high degree of flexibility. If I'm going to eat a big lunch, I have smaller breakfast. If I go over on Tuesday, I can make it up with a deficit on Wednesday or even spread it over two days if necessary. In fact, I plan to do exactly that sort of thing for the Super Bowl so I have much less anxiety about what I might be eating during the game.
It doesn't work for everyone and that's ok. #1 is especially hard because I really like fruit smoothies, macaroni and cheese, everything my family makes. It's a LOT of food substitutions.
Grocery shopping became much easier as time went on because I quickly learned what was low carb and what wasn't. Unlimited greens (leafy/zucchini), most cheeses were ok, almonds, meats. Stuff that I had to watch out for were condiments.
For Italian food I had a zucchini lasagna (slices of zucchini instead of the pasta) and most of the time I made meatballs. You can also spiral zucchini into noodles if you want spaghetti but yes it's an extra step and more work.
I didn't find restaurants too bad because most of them had heard of Atkins at the very least and were fine lettuce wrapping a burger/unwich/protein style. Red Robin offers broccoli as a side. Chicken wings were fine and almost any place would make up a salad for you with no croutons. The Keg makes a pretty good steak too. The only thing restaurants wouldn't do was make cauliflower mash or cauliflower rice.
I'm not trying to push you into what doesn't work for you, you keep doing what works for you! Just letting others on this diet know that there's some options out there 0
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