The cleaner you eat, the less you enjoy processed flavours?!
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I clearly missed the beginning part of this thread, but I'm unsure how it's becoming a mean people thread. Nothing has looked out of line, from what I've seen.
I honestly find it both ways. So, if we're on vacation and eating out a lot - and no, I'm not talking about fast food only - I come home wanting to return to the normal stuff we eat at home. Sometimes, though, when we're eating at home all the time, a morning walk to IHOP is in order.
We normally work in treats as we want them, though. For example, we do Donut Monday, where we walk to the donut shop nearest us and grab a donut and then some coffee. Yes, it's weekly, but the donut never tastes less good. If we skip a couple of weeks? Nope... still tastes yummy!0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Why does every comment on these boards end up turning into some ridiculous battle over semantics where everyone tries to prove the OP wrong while he/she's doing something that's obviously working for them?
No one is trying to tear OP down. OP asked a question and we are answering. To recap:Is it just me? The less processed foods I eat the less I enjoy them.
Also, a bunch of other people posted making other assertions (like steak is unhealthy) that are worth discussing.
I don't think what people are saying demeans OP at all. It's interesting that you feel compelled to read that in.
Clear communication is important. (And not all of us ate poor quality food before deciding to lose weight, and I do find it annoying that some assume we did or that if we don't assert that we don't eat processed food -- since many processed foods are nutrient dense and tasty -- we don't cook or eat whole foods.)
Additionally, the implication that if you include any processed foods in your diet you must not "care about what goes into your body" is bizarre and -- given what I've seen of many posters here -- not factual.
Great point.
As well as the idea that we should intuitively know that "processed" doesn't mean "processed" but something else and that someone who eats "processed food" of that type (fast food? grocery store ramen? Twinkies?) must eat only that kind of food or huge amounts of it and not be able to appreciate vegetables and fruit.
Something I'll see a lot here is people saying that it is "common sense" what foods are "processed" or "clean" or "healthy," but multiple questions and posters (especially from people who are newer to weight loss or focusing on what they eat) have shown me that it isn't. There are so many definitions and they can lead to confusion or people not meeting their goals. It's harder (at first) to approach food in the context of your overall diet and goals, but I think it is much more useful than a rule of thumb that always has exceptions (avoid foods in a bag or can, don't eat anything with more than three ingredients, don't eat foods you can't pronounce, etc).
In terms of tools for living, being able to pick up a bag of dried beans and determine that this is a processed food I want to eat often because of the specific calories, nutritional content, the other foods already in my diet, and taste and that a bag of white flour is a processed food I want to eat less often because of the specific calories, nutritional content, the other foods already in my diet, and taste is much more useful than any term du jour describing what I should avoid.
I think these conversations have value for newer users. I think that because lurking and reading conversations like this had great value for *me*.0 -
Yes for certain things. For example, I will only eat natural peanut butter. The processed stuff tastes disgusting now.0
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Mapalicious wrote: »Is it just me? The less processed foods I eat the less I enjoy them. Even down to my protein shake, the false strawberry just tasted horrible today! I guess it's good that I'd rather eat an omlette than a doughnut (same cals!) But it can be annoying when out with friends as it's hard to not look like a food snob in restaurants! !
I agree completely? I think it's because I'm a good cook though (tooting my own horn here).
I know how to use herbs and spices and healthy oils on veggies, meats, etc like it's no one's business. I can bust out the most flavorful dishes that will knock people's socks off...and it's a great macro-balance w/o crazy calories.
I think folks who think "clean" eating is "bland" eating are missing out.
no one is saying that clean = bland, what we are saying is that clean is a term that is impossible to define and what matters is that one hits micros, macros, and calorie targets.
Yes, of course. That is why I wrote "I think folks who think "clean" eating is "bland" are missing out." This does not apply to you, clearly. No worries, mate.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Why does every comment on these boards end up turning into some ridiculous battle over semantics where everyone tries to prove the OP wrong while he/she's doing something that's obviously working for them?
No one is trying to tear OP down. OP asked a question and we are answering. To recap:Is it just me? The less processed foods I eat the less I enjoy them.
Also, a bunch of other people posted making other assertions (like steak is unhealthy) that are worth discussing.
I don't think what people are saying demeans OP at all. It's interesting that you feel compelled to read that in.
Clear communication is important. (And not all of us ate poor quality food before deciding to lose weight, and I do find it annoying that some assume we did or that if we don't assert that we don't eat processed food -- since many processed foods are nutrient dense and tasty -- we don't cook or eat whole foods.)
Additionally, the implication that if you include any processed foods in your diet you must not "care about what goes into your body" is bizarre and -- given what I've seen of many posters here -- not factual.
Great point.
As well as the idea that we should intuitively know that "processed" doesn't mean "processed" but something else and that someone who eats "processed food" of that type (fast food? grocery store ramen? Twinkies?) must eat only that kind of food or huge amounts of it and not be able to appreciate vegetables and fruit.
Something I'll see a lot here is people saying that it is "common sense" what foods are "processed" or "clean" or "healthy," but multiple questions and posters (especially from people who are newer to weight loss or focusing on what they eat) have shown me that it isn't. There are so many definitions and they can lead to confusion or people not meeting their goals. It's harder (at first) to approach food in the context of your overall diet and goals, but I think it is much more useful than a rule of thumb that always has exceptions (avoid foods in a bag or can, don't eat anything with more than three ingredients, don't eat foods you can't pronounce, etc).
In terms of tools for living, being able to pick up a bag of dried beans and determine that this is a processed food I want to eat often because of the specific calories, nutritional content, the other foods already in my diet, and taste and that a bag of white flour is a processed food I want to eat less often because of the specific calories, nutritional content, the other foods already in my diet, and taste is much more useful than any term du jour describing what I should avoid.
I think these conversations have value for newer users. I think that because lurking and reading conversations like this had great value for *me*.
Yes, that was true for me too. I probably had the idea that it was obvious what foods were healthy and what wasn't and that processed was generally bad (I would have said that "natural" was good), without thinking through my terms. Thinking it through, due to discussions like this, and continuing my reading about nutrition helped me clarify my thoughts and feel more relaxed about some of the choices and trade-offs I make. As someone a bit prone to all or nothing and overly rule focused thinking, that was probably something that helped me succeed.
Plus, a little debate about stuff like this seems fun -- I don't know why people see it as an attack to be asked to define their terms or explain more what they mean or where they disagree (when they say they do).0 -
Is it just me? The less processed foods I eat the less I enjoy them. Even down to my protein shake, the false strawberry just tasted horrible today! I guess it's good that I'd rather eat an omlette than a doughnut (same cals!) But it can be annoying when out with friends as it's hard to not look like a food snob in restaurants! !
I agree. My worst downfall used to be chips (crisps in the UK). I don't really like them that much anymore, I'd much prefer a baked potato.
I NEVER thought I would say that!! 0 -
JustMissTracy wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »JustMissTracy wrote: »Does my liking her bother you? Weird.
Your liking her? No, she may be a lovely person.
I do find it interesting and meaningful that you made a point of liking a comment that was intended to insult other posters who enjoy some higher cal or processed foods by claiming that we must not care about what goes in our bodies or eat whole foods.
Like I said above, I find the idea that liking nutrient dense foods and home-cooked foods makes you unable to appreciate a taco at a local Mexican place or a homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie or fish and chips at a pub or so on and so forth to be odd. I'm a food snob too, in my own way -- probably lots of people who have weight issues are, since we care about food -- but I don't assume that people who don't share my particular snobby things don't have the ability to appreciate nutrient-rich foods or don't eat a healthful diet or don't care about what they put in their body.
Indeed, I see that attitude much more from people who really didn't appreciate nutrient-rich foods at some point in the past, so think it must be all or nothing -- you either like vegetables or pizza, not both (although pizza can have vegetables on it, confusing!).
You see, the difference is, I didn't find her post to be insulting. You may have found my comment "meaningful", but this is social media. It is about as meaningful as anything you have to say as well. I'm not going to spar with you, feel how you wish. I do like her, and I find it "meaningful" that you found that "meaningful".
You don't think telling people that their comments are "pointless" and "ridiculous" and that they should "shut up" and that "nobody cares" about their opinions isn't insulting?0 -
Cookies (and the like), candy, frozen dinners, lots of packaged/canned/boxed things (with exceptions).lemurcat12 wrote: »SmartAlec03211988 wrote: »For me personally... yes, when I abstain from processed junky stuff and go back to it, it tends to taste awful or not as good as I remember.
How do you define "processed junky stuff"?
A homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie?
Knowing it's literally impossible to avoid processed food, I just try to avoid the overtly processed things. I most certainly eat rice, ground meat, bread (rarely, not a fan of bread in general), canned beans and frozen vegetables.
Homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie is processed in my eyes. I'd make my own every time over a generic store-bought one for sure. I know precisely and exactly what's going in it, meaning I can probably make it with everything currently in my pantry and know what each ingredient is without having to whip out Google...
But holidays or special occasions? I'm throwing all this out of the window. Give me ALL the processed junk!
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JustMissTracy wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »JustMissTracy wrote: »Does my liking her bother you? Weird.
Your liking her? No, she may be a lovely person.
I do find it interesting and meaningful that you made a point of liking a comment that was intended to insult other posters who enjoy some higher cal or processed foods by claiming that we must not care about what goes in our bodies or eat whole foods.
Like I said above, I find the idea that liking nutrient dense foods and home-cooked foods makes you unable to appreciate a taco at a local Mexican place or a homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie or fish and chips at a pub or so on and so forth to be odd. I'm a food snob too, in my own way -- probably lots of people who have weight issues are, since we care about food -- but I don't assume that people who don't share my particular snobby things don't have the ability to appreciate nutrient-rich foods or don't eat a healthful diet or don't care about what they put in their body.
Indeed, I see that attitude much more from people who really didn't appreciate nutrient-rich foods at some point in the past, so think it must be all or nothing -- you either like vegetables or pizza, not both (although pizza can have vegetables on it, confusing!).
You see, the difference is, I didn't find her post to be insulting. You may have found my comment "meaningful", but this is social media. It is about as meaningful as anything you have to say as well. I'm not going to spar with you, feel how you wish. I do like her, and I find it "meaningful" that you found that "meaningful".
So now you are claiming that responding to a post with "I like you" didn't have anything to do with the post or the points the poster was trying to make, but instead was an out of the blue statement that you personally like that poster.
Okay. Seems a little off-topic, but I'll keep my thoughts about the credibility of that to myself.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »SmartAlec03211988 wrote: »For me personally... yes, when I abstain from processed junky stuff and go back to it, it tends to taste awful or not as good as I remember.
How do you define "processed junky stuff"?
A homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie?
It's quite subjective, I'd imagine. And if it helps people, then they should go for it, I think.
I don't eat mcDs, taco bell, burger king, arby's, and a host of other places because i find it gross tasting and gross smelling. I don't eat pop-tarts, I don't eat oreos or chips ahoy or those cheap crappy cookies. I don't eat doritos or cheesy poofs. I don't eat most cereal, flavored milk, soda. I don't eat soggy weird frozen dinners.
But I have 'processed' stuff all the time. But for me, those are some things that are on my personal list of "processed junky stuff" that I am happy to stay away from. Nothing scientific about it at all.0 -
I have not found that. I generally don''t like the artificial flavors of protein powder which I why I purchase plain unflavored whey isolate and add flavor by adding fruit, cocoa, PB2 and the like to it when I make a smoothy or protein fluff.0
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All of this. ^Mapalicious wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »SmartAlec03211988 wrote: »For me personally... yes, when I abstain from processed junky stuff and go back to it, it tends to taste awful or not as good as I remember.
How do you define "processed junky stuff"?
A homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie?
It's quite subjective, I'd imagine. And if it helps people, then they should go for it, I think.
I don't eat mcDs, taco bell, burger king, arby's, and a host of other places because i find it gross tasting and gross smelling. I don't eat pop-tarts, I don't eat oreos or chips ahoy or those cheap crappy cookies. I don't eat doritos or cheesy poofs. I don't eat most cereal, flavored milk, soda. I don't eat soggy weird frozen dinners.
But I have 'processed' stuff all the time. But for me, those are some things that are on my personal list of "processed junky stuff" that I am happy to stay away from. Nothing scientific about it at all.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Mapalicious wrote: »Is it just me? The less processed foods I eat the less I enjoy them. Even down to my protein shake, the false strawberry just tasted horrible today! I guess it's good that I'd rather eat an omlette than a doughnut (same cals!) But it can be annoying when out with friends as it's hard to not look like a food snob in restaurants! !
I agree completely? I think it's because I'm a good cook though (tooting my own horn here).
I know how to use herbs and spices and healthy oils on veggies, meats, etc like it's no one's business. I can bust out the most flavorful dishes that will knock people's socks off...and it's a great macro-balance w/o crazy calories.
I think folks who think "clean" eating is "bland" eating are missing out.
I doubt anyone thinks cooking from whole foods is bland. (I don't call it "clean eating," though, and never have a clue as to what that's supposed to mean.)
Niner is the one who said bland, and I think he was thinking of the stereotypically "clean" diet for people cutting weight in the bodybuilding world (as well as some dieters): plain broiled chicken breast, no skin; steamed broccoli; plain brown rice (or sometimes white). No salt, no fat. With that kind of diet, I wouldn't expect much in the way of creative seasoning, either, since it's utilitarian.
What I don't agree with is not that healthy cooking can be delicious -- heck, that's been my dieting/maintenance strategy, and I don't waste calories on food that isn't good if I can avoid it. It's the idea that only people who eat poorly would enjoy a doughnut (homemade or not) or chocolate-chip cookie or fish and chips at a pub, and that if you eat healthfully you will lose your taste for these things.
Yes, I think I was responding to Niner And apparently people here don't come across folks like my (big fat) family! They think the only way to eat "clean" or eat "whole foods" is to just boil the crap out of a vegetable and eat some plain meat, or fat-free cottage cheese and celery. And so they stay big, because that's the image they have in their minds (among other reasons, of course)
And the thing is that I DID lose my taste for many of these things, throughout my 125 lb weight loss. The things I used to eat I can't stomach (literally, gives me a stomach ache AND figuratively, as in it does not appeal to me). So I suppose I am a singular example, along with OP, that it's entirely possible.0 -
These discussions and disagreements happen because the term means different things to different people...I would consider my diet for the most part to be "clean" as it consists largely of whole foods...but that guy who thinks steak is "bad" obviously wouldn't think my diet is clean. I personally don't worry about organic, etc...I figure I'm doing pretty good to get in a lot of veggies, some fruit, whole grains, lean protein, and healthy fat...others would consider this "bad" or "un-clean" because not everything that goes into my pie hole is organic.
[edited by MFP Moderator]
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To get back on topic here,
I could still down a box of kraft mac and cheese, Krispy cream donuts, Doritos, chips ahoy, and oh my god Cheetos, and I actually really love my "birthday cake" flavored protein powder...
I may be missing something, but I really never ate dirty to begin with, I just eat a whole lot less of the stuff above.
"clean eating" phrase? Who came up with this?0 -
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SmartAlec03211988 wrote: »
Cookies (and the like), candy, frozen dinners, lots of packaged/canned/boxed things (with exceptions).lemurcat12 wrote: »SmartAlec03211988 wrote: »For me personally... yes, when I abstain from processed junky stuff and go back to it, it tends to taste awful or not as good as I remember.
How do you define "processed junky stuff"?
A homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie?
Knowing it's literally impossible to avoid processed food, I just try to avoid the overtly processed things. I most certainly eat rice, ground meat, bread (rarely, not a fan of bread in general), canned beans and frozen vegetables.
Homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie is processed in my eyes. I'd make my own every time over a generic store-bought one for sure. I know precisely and exactly what's going in it, meaning I can probably make it with everything currently in my pantry and know what each ingredient is without having to whip out Google...
But holidays or special occasions? I'm throwing all this out of the window. Give me ALL the processed junk!
I'm confused. I mean, I agree my homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie is processed and fits the definition of junk food. Are you saying it is "processed junky stuff"? And if so, does it not taste as good as remembered? (Well, not my particular version, as you haven't had it.) ;-)
I am a total snob about baked goods -- I love well-made cookies, pies, crisps, bread, so on, and pretty much can't stand most mass-market varieties. Same with chocolate -- I can easily pass up most grocery-store candy (except for peanut M&Ms, which are a weakness), but give me some fancy artisan chocolate and I will enjoy the heck out of it. I'm less picky about ice cream, I guess, as there are a variety of options in the supermarket (Talenti) that I enjoy, but I do have a penchant for interesting homemade varieties or the cardamon gelato on offer at a restaurant or the like. What I'm thinking is that ALL of these things are processed, of course, and all fit the definition of "junk food" (based on the calories per nutrient ratio), so the question is whether having these foods more rarely makes me less likely to enjoy them.
For me, no. Indeed, the things I really enjoy, I probably enjoy even more when I eat them more rarely, which is why I partake on holidays and other special occasions in my pie. Not only that, but I'm personally really glad that eating a healthful diet doesn't make me unable to enjoy these foods or some others that don't fit so easily into my nutrition plan without a bit of work. I don't see disliking pie or fish and chips as something to be pursued. Now, does it bother me that I've never much cared for McD's or frozen TV dinners? No, not particularly. But I feel like some people are going quite far the other way and saying that if you like those icky processed or junk foods, well, you must not appreciate home cooking or vegetables or the like and don't care about your health!0 -
Mapalicious wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »SmartAlec03211988 wrote: »For me personally... yes, when I abstain from processed junky stuff and go back to it, it tends to taste awful or not as good as I remember.
How do you define "processed junky stuff"?
A homemade strawberry-rhubarb pie?
It's quite subjective, I'd imagine. And if it helps people, then they should go for it, I think.
I don't eat mcDs, taco bell, burger king, arby's, and a host of other places because i find it gross tasting and gross smelling. I don't eat pop-tarts, I don't eat oreos or chips ahoy or those cheap crappy cookies. I don't eat doritos or cheesy poofs. I don't eat most cereal, flavored milk, soda. I don't eat soggy weird frozen dinners.
But I have 'processed' stuff all the time. But for me, those are some things that are on my personal list of "processed junky stuff" that I am happy to stay away from. Nothing scientific about it at all.
We have similar tastes, it seems. But I don't stay away from the foods I dislike because they are more "processed junky stuff" than the paczki my Polish-American co-worker brought from her family's bakery on Tuesday. (Also processed, in that it was not made by me, from processed ingredients like flour and sugar, and also "junk food" as normally defined). I stay away because why waste calories on food you don't like?
Personally, my tastes haven't changed -- I didn't like the kinds of foods you mention back when I was fat, and I don't not like my old favorite high cal indulgences (curry and naan, really good pie) now that I'm not.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »So for that example. ... The more actual strawberries I eat, the less I enjoy false strawberry flavours ( and I used to adore it, strawberry center chocs, strawberry icecream, strawberry yoghurt etc) which was sad when I got excited about a strawberry milkshake the other day and really it wasn't as nice as I remember.
Some of those items probably have "natural" strawberry flavor though -- my point is that the "artificiality" of the flavor probably isn't an issue (unless you're using in a different way than usual).
You may like strawberries, but dislike strawberry-flavored items (whether that flavor is natural or artificial).
I'll disagree.
I can tell the difference between naturally flavored and artificially flavored items for at least some flavors. Vanilla is a big one - I can distinguish real vanilla extract or vanilla bean paste from vanillin a mile away. So is orange. I actually prefer artificial orange flavoring to the mix or natural orange oils and extracts they use to flavor orange juice these days. I can definitely tell artificial marshmallow flavoring from real marshmallow even with real marshmallows present (Toll House hot cocoa cookies - couldn't eat them, the filling tasted too 'off' even with real marshmallows throughout)
I'm not talking about vanilla extract though -- I'm talking about ingredients like "natural flavor" that are vanilla flavored. I can also taste the difference between vanilla and vanillin.
I can distinguish those as 'not vanilla extract/paste' as well. In my head, I tend to lump those in with artificial flavorings even though the components are natural. I can distinguish between natural vanilla flavoring and vanillin, too. Vanillin is really far off of what it should taste like. Natural vanilla flavoring is still not right but less harsh tasting than vanillin and lacking the complexity of actual vanilla.
Basically, for some flavors I can tell the difference between a flavor made mainly from the actual thing, and a flavoring put together by humans to mimic the taste of that thing regardless of the naturalness or artificiality of the components. It doesn't say anything about which I prefer for a particular flavoring, though.
I think being able to distinguish between an actual ingredient and a flavoring is pretty common. I'm talking about what was mentioned above -- the ability to distinguish between a natural and an artificial flavor. That's what I'm skeptical about.
If someone told me they could distinguish between natural strawberry flavor (which was created in a lab and doesn't include any component of strawberries but is legally entitled to the natural designation) and artificial strawberry flavor (which was also created in a lab and doesn't include any component of strawberries but is legally obligated to be labelled "artificial"), I would be skeptical.
Setting aside oils and extracts and all that, I don't think the human palate can distinguish between a natural and an artificial flavor with any degree of reliability.
Why not? Two different flavorings with two different sets of components and almost guaranteed different flavor profiles. Both attempts to mimic something else. Some of the attempts taste similar enough that people can't tell the difference but I bet most would be easily distinguishable unless masked by other ingredients in the final product (yogurt or ice cream or whatever).
If you mean that most can't tell just by tasting an unknown flavoring whether it is made from natural or artificial components, then sure. It just tastes like a mimicry.0 -
"clean eating" phrase? Who came up with this?
This is a question I tried to answer for myself a while ago. An internet search didn't provide any answers. It's been around for a really long time. It may not be older than me but I heard the phrase long before I heard of the internet. I seem to associate it with hippies.0
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