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A quick refresher on a calorie is a calorie ....
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I used evidence that a calorie is not a calorie because of different variables, one being fiber. Is it true? if so then it contradicts this whole thread.
fiber does not change the energy output and it does not change phsyics....
strange that you think that...0 -
I used evidence that a calorie is not a calorie because of different variables, one being fiber. Is it true? if so then it contradicts this whole thread.
A lot of things have calories a human being can't use. Most food labels have factors to correct for the differences in digestible content. Some are wrong. You're retreading old ground.
Your argument would be just as valid as saying calories aren't equal because humans can't digest gasoline calories.0 -
This thread has gone nuts!
Here's an effort to clarify the argument.
What I see as a point for stating "a calorie is a calorie" is that many people--weird as it may seem to some of us more naive folks--seem to genuinely believe that the source of a calorie makes a difference as to whether you can gain weight from it or not, and how "fattening" it is. I posted some examples of this from another thread yesterday.
For example, many will insist that calories from cheese lead to more weight gain (and definite weight gain, in any amount, even if you are in a deficit), whereas calories from fruit can't cause weight gain. The same people (and many fraudulent guru types) will then insist that calories do not matter, and instead other things (eating "clean" or eating paleo or raw vegan or some other diet) matter for weight loss and that if you follow the diet rules you can eat many more calories and not gain weight.
That is what I want to attack.
What "a calorie is a calorie" does not mean is that all foods are identical. Of course that's not so, and "a calorie" is not being used as a synonym for "a food."
Also, what is not meant is that all labels and the USDA information is 100% accurate and thus 100 calories of almonds always have 100 calories that can be used by the body. Estimates are imperfect and more imperfect with some foods than others.
What we eat also affects calories out in some ways. First, TEF (although not significant if one is eating a normal diet). Second, if one has more energy/feels better.
What I find interesting is whether there's any other significant effect whereby CO changes due to the types of foods eaten (i.e., the arguments that higher carb/lower fat or the reverse makes a difference). I suspect that even if there is it may vary from person to person or be sufficiently small that other considerations (like whether I am happy eating a particular diet) will be far more significant.0 -
Why do you care what his goals are should be the real question, unless he blatantly asks you for help.
It's a problematic goal, because if you try to gain at such a small rate you probably end up increasing the metabolism and not gaining at all.
Same reason trying to lose at such a slow rate would be tough.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »For medical reasons it would be best that I avoid gaining more than a pound of fat over the next several months, while at the same time I'd like to increase my LBM.
Do you think those 30 cals is going to add a significant amount of LBM? or fat?0 -
stevencloser wrote: »
From what I remember you really can't. It would go under in the sea of ups and downs in expenditure, and the thing I said above.
This is what I wonder as well.lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find interesting is whether there's any other significant effect whereby CO changes due to the types of foods eaten (i.e., the arguments that higher carb/lower fat or the reverse makes a difference). I suspect that even if there is it may vary from person to person or be sufficiently small that other considerations (like whether I am happy eating a particular diet) will be far more significant.
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I think I'm going to start keeping a copypasta handy myself soon.
In each and every case for every person living in this universe, every calorie you put into your body has to be accounted for. No calorie can ever disappear without trace nor appear out of nothing.
They all either: get used for fueling your body, wasted as heat, stored as lbm, fat or glycogen, excreted unabsorbed.
In any timeframe t0 to t1, the difference in energy inside your body between t0 and t1 plus the amount of energy that left your body via the aforementioned ways will ALWAYS equal the amount of energy that was introduced to your body during that timeframe. This is known as CICO.
Is that too long?0 -
stevencloser wrote: »
From what I remember you really can't. It would go under in the sea of ups and downs in expenditure, and the thing I said above.
Yeah, this is my understanding too, and I recall Evgeni posting support for it also.
Edit: and he's here. Excellent.0 -
I don't know for sure, but based on my medical condition I think that gaining as little as a pound of fat may cause a lot of harm. If I can get at least 20 of those 30 calories to go into increasing LBM, over the course of a few months it could make a noticeable change depending on where it's gained. In the past I gained about 3 lbs of LBM in my upper body and family members thought that was "a lot" of muscle gained based on how it affected my physique.EvgeniZyntx wrote: »
Do you think those 30 cals is going to add a significant amount of LBM? or fat?0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »I don't see why it would not. To gain .25 lb a month, I thought in theory that would translate to about a 25 calorie surplus a day.
There is too much variation IMO to make a 25 calorie a day surplus significant...0 -
stevencloser wrote: »
I think @EvgeniZyntx once showed that such a small surplus is unlikely to be realizable as the body would counteract it to become maintenance.
Yep, we had that a while back.
Let's say that one is at maintenance - add 30 cals and ... nothing will happen.
Why? Because the body up regulates slight metabolic activity, NEAT, etc.
Maintenance isn't a single point - it's a spread of about 100 to 200 cals. Eat anywhere in between and, boom, no change. But let's say you add those 30 cals right at the edge of the spread. And you go up a whole .25 lb a month.
There is no medical situation that counter-indicates a gain of a lb a month that isn't better served by losing 2 a week. If you are not supposed to gain weight at all shouldn't you be losing weight?
Get to a manageable weight, then bulk - otherwise you are spinning your wheels.0 -
Metabolic: Relating to metabolism, the whole range of biochemical processes that occur within us (or any living organism). Metabolism consists of anabolism (the buildup of substances) and catabolism (the breakdown of substances).
The term "metabolic" is often used to refer specifically to the breakdown of food and its transformation into energy.
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=18074
I stated metabolic rate. Pretty sure I used it right. If wrong. it still does what it does, the fiber.
Digestion and metabolism are two different processes...
Digestion refers to how the body processes food in the GI tract and eliminates food waste via the intestines. Metabolism refers to how the cells utilize the energy we have absorbed from food during digestion.0 -
The crazy thing is that I'm at a BMI of 19 with a waist size of 27 inches (and have visible abs), so I shouldn't need to lose weight.EvgeniZyntx wrote: »
Yep, we had that a while back.
Let's say that one is at maintenance - add 30 cals and ... nothing will happen.
Why? Because the body up regulates slight metabolic activity, NEAT, etc.
Maintenance isn't a single point - it's a spread of about 100 to 200 cals. Eat anywhere in between and, boom, no change. But let's say you add those 30 cals right at the edge of the spread. And you go up a whole .25 lb a month.
There is no medical situation that counter-indicates a gain of a lb a month that isn't better served by losing 2 a week. If you are not supposed to gain weight at all shouldn't you be losing weight?
Get to a manageable weight, then bulk - otherwise you are spinning your wheels.0 -
This has become more of a "grammar nazi" thing, so small and insignificant. I took this from the definition. "The term "metabolic" is often used to refer specifically to the breakdown of food and its transformation into energy." And it works. I'm pretty sure digestion is breaking down food!
It is called semantics.
And using metabolism for what would better be described by digestion doesn't inspire confidence in your knowledge.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »I don't know for sure, but based on my medical condition I think that gaining as little as a pound of fat may cause a lot of harm. If I can get at least 20 of those 30 calories to go into increasing LBM, over the course of a few months it could make a noticeable change depending on where it's gained. In the past I gained about 3 lbs of LBM in my upper body and family members thought that was "a lot" of muscle gained based on how it affected my physique.
what is this medical condition?
and a gain of .25 a month and trying to gain any appreciable LBM is the poster child for spinning your wheels...
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ForecasterJason wrote: »The crazy thing is that I'm at a BMI of 19 with a waist size of 27 inches (and have visible abs), so I shouldn't need to lose weight.
Ok, I don't know your medical condition and would suggest that you actively discuss this with your physician. If you have a BMI of 19 what makes you think that your condition will worsen with a 1 lb gain/month?
Please feel free to NOT answer if you feel that you would rather that type of personal info remain private.
If you do wish to gain LBM - at some point you will need a bit of an increase in calories - and any gain will result at least in a little fat gain (which you can then lose, on a cut). If you feel that you do not want to see a lot of fat, then yes, work on shorter cycles of gain and loss (but anything shorter than 4 weeks give your body less time to ramp up synthesis - you basically lose 3-5 days each time you cycle up).
Edit: the point in the discussion is that 30 cals a day is not the level of accuracy you can expect from calorie counting. Each day is usually accurate within say 50-100 based on true density of food, absorption, TEF, sleep, movement, etc. Think of it as general guidance rather than absolute measures.0 -
It is called semantics.
And using metabolism for what would better be described by digestion doesn't inspire confidence in your knowledge.
Insufficient semantics. still doesn't take away from what fiber does.0 -
This has become more of a "grammar nazi" thing, so small and insignificant. I took this from the definition. "The term "metabolic" is often used to refer specifically to the breakdown of food and its transformation into energy." And it works. I'm pretty sure digestion is breaking down food!
You are majoring in the minor my friend...0 -
This has become more of a "grammar nazi" thing, so small and insignificant. I took this from the definition. "The term "metabolic" is often used to refer specifically to the breakdown of food and its transformation into energy." And it works. I'm pretty sure digestion is breaking down food!
The problem is they have overlapping areas but make no mistake they are two different processes.0 -
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Insufficient semantics. still doesn't take away from what fiber does.
And it also does not change what fiber does not do, speed up the metabolism...0 -
all calories are metabolised equally?0
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Insufficient semantics. still doesn't take away from what fiber does.
Yes, yours were. Thanks for acknowledging that.0 -
Which is a product of analysis paralysis...
what is this medical condition?
and a gain of .25 a month and trying to gain any appreciable LBM is the poster child for spinning your wheels...
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I take it you didn't bother reading the 17 pages of this thread...
no, summarise for me0 -
what is this medical condition?
and a gain of .25 a month and trying to gain any appreciable LBM is the poster child for spinning your wheels...
Pre-diabetesEvgeniZyntx wrote: »
Ok, I don't know your medical condition and would suggest that you actively discuss this with your physician. If you have a BMI of 19 what makes you think that your condition will worsen with a 1 lb gain/month?
Please feel free to NOT answer if you feel that you would rather that type of personal info remain private.
If you do wish to gain LBM - at some point you will need a bit of an increase in calories - and any gain will result at least in a little fat gain (which you can then lose, on a cut). If you feel that you do not want to see a lot of fat, then yes, work on shorter cycles of gain and loss (but anything shorter than 4 weeks give your body less time to ramp up synthesis - you basically lose 3-5 days each time you cycle up).
Edit: the point in the discussion is that 30 cals a day is not the level of accuracy you can expect from calorie counting. Each day is usually accurate within say 50-100 based on true density of food, absorption, TEF, sleep, movement, etc. Think of it as general guidance rather than absolute measures.
I understand that, but since in this thread we are discussing extracting calories from food on a miniscule level, it makes me wonder if I can tweak my diet to just barely overcompensate for the effects of increased NEAT.
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all calories are metabolised equally?
No, but it basically does not matter in a generally nutritious diet with sufficient variety.
If you focus on calorie counting to lose weight, you do not need to focus on eating specific calories for weight loss.
One should focus on meeting nutritional goals of fat, proteins and micronutrients but it doesn't mean you can't have some of whatever you like along the way.
Bacon or green smoothie calories will not hinder or improve your weight loss by themselves. Overall diet does affect satiety, mood, etc...0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »
Yep, we had that a while back.
Let's say that one is at maintenance - add 30 cals and ... nothing will happen.
Why? Because the body up regulates slight metabolic activity, NEAT, etc.
Maintenance isn't a single point - it's a spread of about 100 to 200 cals. Eat anywhere in between and, boom, no change. But let's say you add those 30 cals right at the edge of the spread. And you go up a whole .25 lb a month.
There is no medical situation that counter-indicates a gain of a lb a month that isn't better served by losing 2 a week. If you are not supposed to gain weight at all shouldn't you be losing weight?
Get to a manageable weight, then bulk - otherwise you are spinning your wheels.
are you really talking about set points/homeostasis on "a calorie is a calorie" thread?
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This discussion has been closed.
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