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Is the amount of easy access processed food harming dieters health?
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WinoGelato wrote: »I often wonder if the recommendations like this latest one which presumably came from a doctor is that medical professionals assume that people will not put forth the effort or engage in the mindfulness to differentiate between what actually goes into foods and so they make widespread sweeping recommendations like "avoid processed foods" or "cut out carbs" because they just want people to make changes for their health and even an uninformed, ignorant and sort of blind attempt to follow the orders will result in things moving in the right direction?
I don't know if that says more about the doctor or the patients...
Kinda the way I look at it. The whole "Don't eat processed foods" and "cut your carbs" is just the easy answer to give to people who are uninformed.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »I often wonder if the recommendations like this latest one which presumably came from a doctor is that medical professionals assume that people will not put forth the effort or engage in the mindfulness to differentiate between what actually goes into foods and so they make widespread sweeping recommendations like "avoid processed foods" or "cut out carbs" because they just want people to make changes for their health and even an uninformed, ignorant and sort of blind attempt to follow the orders will result in things moving in the right direction?
I don't know if that says more about the doctor or the patients...
Kinda the way I look at it. The whole "Don't eat processed foods" and "cut your carbs" is just the easy answer to give to people who are uninformed.
Except if someone is uninformed it seems they just get confused about what "processed" is. Like the threads here asking "is protein powder processed" (duh) or "is deli meat processed?" or "is greek yogurt processed?"
I kind of wonder if stuff like the doctor's advice here was actually "avoid high GL foods" or some such, which the poster interpreted as "processed." So many people seem to use "processed" to mean "foods I think I should not eat" as opposed to any actual definition. (Kind of like some used to use "socialist" to mean "policies I am against.")0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I often wonder if the recommendations like this latest one which presumably came from a doctor is that medical professionals assume that people will not put forth the effort or engage in the mindfulness to differentiate between what actually goes into foods and so they make widespread sweeping recommendations like "avoid processed foods" or "cut out carbs" because they just want people to make changes for their health and even an uninformed, ignorant and sort of blind attempt to follow the orders will result in things moving in the right direction?
I don't know if that says more about the doctor or the patients...
Kinda the way I look at it. The whole "Don't eat processed foods" and "cut your carbs" is just the easy answer to give to people who are uninformed.
Except if someone is uninformed it seems they just get confused about what "processed" is. Like the threads here asking "is protein powder processed" (duh) or "is deli meat processed?" or "is greek yogurt processed?"
I kind of wonder if stuff like the doctor's advice here was actually "avoid high GL foods" or some such, which the poster interpreted as "processed." So many people seem to use "processed" to mean "foods I think I should not eat" as opposed to any actual definition. (Kind of like some used to use "socialist" to mean "policies I am against.")
I'm sure there are confused people who ask for clarification, there are probably others who are confused and don't have a forum like this to ask, and there are still others who just subjectively interpret what the doctor meant and assume they are on the right track.
I agree that everyone should try to be more intelligent about the recommendations and what specifically they are supposed to be changing in order to achieve the desired results - however, that's just not the nature of our society today. Look at the way people make decisions like choosing a political candidate to back, considering a possible mate, etc. our society today (and I'm speaking primarily about Americans) tends toward using quick tag lines and as brief information as possible for clicks, swipes and likes. I'm done being surprised that people hear "reduce carbs" and assume that the doctor meant that they avoid fruits and vegetables in favor of drinking 400 cals of fat in their coffee and call that healthy.
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WinoGelato wrote: »I often wonder if the recommendations like this latest one which presumably came from a doctor is that medical professionals assume that people will not put forth the effort or engage in the mindfulness to differentiate between what actually goes into foods and so they make widespread sweeping recommendations like "avoid processed foods" or "cut out carbs" because they just want people to make changes for their health and even an uninformed, ignorant and sort of blind attempt to follow the orders will result in things moving in the right direction?
I don't know if that says more about the doctor or the patients...
I think this is likely the case, and I think it says a lot about both. But all you have to do is read these forums for a few days to know that it's a not necessarily a bad practice.0 -
Since "easy access processed food" is essentially "anything", I'm going to present the possibility that we're all going die because we ate food while alive.0
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Two cents from this hand: Humans have been processing food from at least the moment someone put a meal over a flame. Smoking; drying; salting; pickling; preserving. All these and more are ways in which we process. Even other animals process their foods on occasion - notably the way a bird or wolf, for example, will serve their babies regurgitated meat.
As someone who needs to watch sodium, and as someone with an uncooperative LDL level, I am a dedicated label-reader (one of my cats has liver issues, and yes, I will stand, squinting at cat food labels too). If anything - from cheese to nuts - has levels of sodium or other ingredients that make me go "hmm", I usually put it back on the shelf. Sometimes I'm lazy, but I try not to be!
To me, there *are* levels of processing that make a difference: I know, for example, generally speaking, what the conglomeration of chemicals which make up yogurt, say, will end up doing in my digestive system, and I know, basically, why I am choosing to consume this conglomeration. I am less sure of what, say, carrageenan added to yogurt will do: I am uncertain of its nutritional value to me. There is, available, yogurt without carrageenan. I prefer to buy that.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »I agree that everyone should try to be more intelligent about the recommendations and what specifically they are supposed to be changing in order to achieve the desired results - however, that's just not the nature of our society today. Look at the way people make decisions like choosing a political candidate to back, considering a possible mate, etc. our society today (and I'm speaking primarily about Americans) tends toward using quick tag lines and as brief information as possible for clicks, swipes and likes. I'm done being surprised that people hear "reduce carbs" and assume that the doctor meant that they avoid fruits and vegetables in favor of drinking 400 cals of fat in their coffee and call that healthy.
I know exactly what you mean, but I kind of feel like giving up being surprised at ignorance or that kind of thing would be to give up entirely. I think we need to try and hold people to higher standards and not give in to willful ignorance and over-simplification. Basically, I think people are capable of more, and if my doctor assumed I was too uninformed or incapable of understanding nutrition such that it had to be dumbed down to such a degree, I'd say something to my doctor and if the doctor continued I'd find a new one. It's insulting, to my way of thinking.
Yeah, I'm sometimes a crazy idealist, and I'm feeling frustrated (more about other things beyond MFP).0 -
Perhaps you're discussing an old formulation? Looks like a 0 grams to me, which would allow for up to .5 grams in a serving. Not exactly what I'd call loaded.markrgeary1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »karenlwashburn wrote: »My child is diabetic and the doctor told us always to avoid processed foods of all types meaning pre-made dinners, cream of wheat, pre-made potatoes, pancake batter,ice cream, pasta is a big one, .. so eat whole foods. Okay foods are chicken, fish, some red meat, yogurt, beans, cheese, whole wheat bread(s) ,brown rice, fresh veggies and fruit etc from my understanding. Processed foods make your blood sugar go thru the roof. I love cream of wheat but it's not as good for you as you think. Yes junk food all highly processed is not good for you so McDonalds burgers are not as good for you as a veggie burger you make yourself. I'm focusing right now on this whole subject so I make my own "power shakes" I do not buy them at Panera bread. I know there are mix fresh berries with ice and non -fat yogurt and chi seeds because I made it myself. So canned tuna is just a fish in a can so probably okay but fresh tuna you cook yourself is still better. I guess if you didn't make it your self , from my understanding you can trust the ingredients 100% to be "natural', "organic" etc . But something that has been "milled" is a no-no.
I don't understand a definition of "processed" that excludes things like cheese and yogurt. Why would bread be okay but pancake batter be unacceptable?
Depends, how did you make the pancake batter? If like many folks you used Bisquick it's loaded with trans fats(at least in the US).
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To me, there *are* levels of processing that make a difference: I know, for example, generally speaking, what the conglomeration of chemicals which make up yogurt, say, will end up doing in my digestive system, and I know, basically, why I am choosing to consume this conglomeration. I am less sure of what, say, carrageenan added to yogurt will do: I am uncertain of its nutritional value to me. There is, available, yogurt without carrageenan. I prefer to buy that.
But this doesn't sound like it's about "levels" of processing, but specific kinds of processing. I make distinctions and read labels too -- that's precisely why just focusing on whether something deserves the label "processed" or not (which as shown by the person who said avoid processed, eat cheese, makes no sense) or even the label "ultra processed" as shown by how arbitrary the distinctions in the definition here is. Does that mean I think all foods are the same? Of course not.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I agree that everyone should try to be more intelligent about the recommendations and what specifically they are supposed to be changing in order to achieve the desired results - however, that's just not the nature of our society today. Look at the way people make decisions like choosing a political candidate to back, considering a possible mate, etc. our society today (and I'm speaking primarily about Americans) tends toward using quick tag lines and as brief information as possible for clicks, swipes and likes. I'm done being surprised that people hear "reduce carbs" and assume that the doctor meant that they avoid fruits and vegetables in favor of drinking 400 cals of fat in their coffee and call that healthy.
I know exactly what you mean, but I kind of feel like giving up being surprised at ignorance or that kind of thing would be to give up entirely. I think we need to try and hold people to higher standards and not give in to willful ignorance and over-simplification. Basically, I think people are capable of more, and if my doctor assumed I was too uninformed or incapable of understanding nutrition such that it had to be dumbed down to such a degree, I'd say something to my doctor and if the doctor continued I'd find a new one. It's insulting, to my way of thinking.
Yeah, I'm sometimes a crazy idealist, and I'm feeling frustrated (more about other things beyond MFP).
Oh I don't mean we should give up trying to help educate people to make more informed decisions, just that I'm going to operate more from an assumption that many people really don't know the difference and truly think they are following doctors orders when they start out and make these widespread changes with little thought as to WHY the doctor advised them to do that.... Now there will certainly be others who have heard all of this information and will still insist that cutting out vegetables in favor of a diet made up of 60-70% fat is healthier...
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Nevermind, I missed part of the post.
Perhaps you're discussing an old formulation? Looks like a 0 grams to me, which would allow for up to .5 grams in a serving. Not exactly what I'd call loaded.markrgeary1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »karenlwashburn wrote: »My child is diabetic and the doctor told us always to avoid processed foods of all types meaning pre-made dinners, cream of wheat, pre-made potatoes, pancake batter,ice cream, pasta is a big one, .. so eat whole foods. Okay foods are chicken, fish, some red meat, yogurt, beans, cheese, whole wheat bread(s) ,brown rice, fresh veggies and fruit etc from my understanding. Processed foods make your blood sugar go thru the roof. I love cream of wheat but it's not as good for you as you think. Yes junk food all highly processed is not good for you so McDonalds burgers are not as good for you as a veggie burger you make yourself. I'm focusing right now on this whole subject so I make my own "power shakes" I do not buy them at Panera bread. I know there are mix fresh berries with ice and non -fat yogurt and chi seeds because I made it myself. So canned tuna is just a fish in a can so probably okay but fresh tuna you cook yourself is still better. I guess if you didn't make it your self , from my understanding you can trust the ingredients 100% to be "natural', "organic" etc . But something that has been "milled" is a no-no.
I don't understand a definition of "processed" that excludes things like cheese and yogurt. Why would bread be okay but pancake batter be unacceptable?
Depends, how did you make the pancake batter? If like many folks you used Bisquick it's loaded with trans fats(at least in the US).
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Must be it - I don't like cinnamon.0 -
Must be it - I don't like cinnamon.
Make no bones about it, they aren't as good as a from scratch pancake. They are good enough though for most days. Plus, they are usually eaten with syrup, eggs and bacon so... that helps
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Must be it - I don't like cinnamon.
Make no bones about it, they aren't as good as a from scratch pancake. They are good enough though for most days. Plus, they are usually eaten with syrup, eggs and bacon so... that helps
I did not like them made with eggs or milk but with water I do, which I think is weird.
I make mine with close to half of the water recommended so they're thicker and (oddly enough) fluffier. Otherwise they're rather thin and tough/cardboard-y. I make one big pancake and eat it with peanut butter. Or fruit if I can't afford the calories for the peanut butter. I don't eat them for breakfast. They're more a snack or 'I want dessert but I need protein' meal.0 -
That settles it. We're having pancakes for dinner...0
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If a doctor told me to avoid "avoid processed foods" and "cut carbs" to lose weight I would assume they meant high calorie foods that provide only a small amount of needed nutrition like potato chips, cookies, cakes and fast food. I would assume they meant I should be eating vegetables and meats that I cook myself without adding additional calories. The fact that the vegetables and meat are "processed" doesn't bother me. I know what the doctor means and what 99% of the posters on MFP mean when they say it.
I think it's funny how some freak out over that phrase and pretend they don't understand what the person is saying.0 -
Agreed 100%.If a doctor told me to avoid "avoid processed foods" and "cut carbs" to lose weight I would assume they meant high calorie foods that provide only a small amount of needed nutrition like potato chips, cookies, cakes and fast food. I would assume they meant I should be eating vegetables and meats that I cook myself without adding additional calories. The fact that the vegetables and meat are "processed" doesn't bother me. I know what the doctor means and what 99% of the posters on MFP mean when they say it.
I think it's funny how some freak out over that phrase and pretend they don't understand what the person is saying.
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You can be thin or even fit and still develop health problems. There's no doubt that processed foods aren't good for our health, and are contributing to the rise of common health problems, cancers, and other diseases. Few people achieve perfection, but I think it's best to eat natural, healthy food as much as possible. I would think of processed food as an occasional treat. If all you care about is weight and physique, then that's one thing. But it's another thing to care about your health as a whole.0
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lisawinning4losing wrote: »You can be thin or even fit and still develop health problems. There's no doubt that processed foods aren't good for our health, and are contributing to the rise of common health problems, cancers, and other diseases. Few people achieve perfection, but I think it's best to eat natural, healthy food as much as possible. I would think of processed food as an occasional treat. If all you care about is weight and physique, then that's one thing. But it's another thing to care about your health as a whole.
Citation needed. How is cottage cheese contributing to the rise of common health problems, cancers, and other diseases?0 -
lisawinning4losing wrote: »You can be thin or even fit and still develop health problems. There's no doubt that processed foods aren't good for our health, and are contributing to the rise of common health problems, cancers, and other diseases. Few people achieve perfection, but I think it's best to eat natural, healthy food as much as possible. I would think of processed food as an occasional treat. If all you care about is weight and physique, then that's one thing. But it's another thing to care about your health as a whole.
Yes, from genetics, infectious vectors, chance, and environmental factors beyond diet and exercise.
Being thin and fit and still getting sick does not imply anyone is ill or getting ill at an increased rate from eating processed foods.0 -
If a doctor told me to avoid "avoid processed foods" and "cut carbs" to lose weight I would assume they meant high calorie foods that provide only a small amount of needed nutrition like potato chips, cookies, cakes and fast food. I would assume they meant I should be eating vegetables and meats that I cook myself without adding additional calories. The fact that the vegetables and meat are "processed" doesn't bother me. I know what the doctor means and what 99% of the posters on MFP mean when they say it.
I think it's funny how some freak out over that phrase and pretend they don't understand what the person is saying.
There are people who won't eat an apple because it is too carb heavy. There are those who won't eat a hamburger from a restaurant because it is processed, but will take protein in powder form.
Don't confuse "freaking out over a phrase" with wanting a clear definition of terms.0 -
If a doctor told me to avoid "avoid processed foods" and "cut carbs" to lose weight I would assume they meant high calorie foods that provide only a small amount of needed nutrition like potato chips, cookies, cakes and fast food. I would assume they meant I should be eating vegetables and meats that I cook myself without adding additional calories. The fact that the vegetables and meat are "processed" doesn't bother me. I know what the doctor means and what 99% of the posters on MFP mean when they say it.
I think it's funny how some freak out over that phrase and pretend they don't understand what the person is saying.
I would question what was meant and ask questions. I assume my dr (who is cool) would give less stupid information. If not I would fire her.
I might assune that;s what she meant, but I would cross check and confirm that I don't really eat that stuff. It's funny that "clean eaters" on MFP seem much more likely to have been fast food junkies than non clean eaters. (No point in giving up fast food oe ultra processed food if you never ate it.)0 -
If a doctor told me to avoid "avoid processed foods" and "cut carbs" to lose weight I would assume they meant high calorie foods that provide only a small amount of needed nutrition like potato chips, cookies, cakes and fast food. I would assume they meant I should be eating vegetables and meats that I cook myself without adding additional calories. The fact that the vegetables and meat are "processed" doesn't bother me. I know what the doctor means and what 99% of the posters on MFP mean when they say it.
I think it's funny how some freak out over that phrase and pretend they don't understand what the person is saying.
I'd be confused because I already eat lots of veg (check my diary) and no fast food (and no one I know eats lots of fast food).
So weird assumption.0 -
If a doctor told me to avoid "avoid processed foods" and "cut carbs" to lose weight I would assume they meant high calorie foods that provide only a small amount of needed nutrition like potato chips, cookies, cakes and fast food. I would assume they meant I should be eating vegetables and meats that I cook myself without adding additional calories. The fact that the vegetables and meat are "processed" doesn't bother me. I know what the doctor means and what 99% of the posters on MFP mean when they say it.
I think it's funny how some freak out over that phrase and pretend they don't understand what the person is saying.
If the doctor gave me "pancakes" as an example of what not to eat and "bread" as an example of what to eat while telling me to avoid processed foods, no. I wouldn't know what they meant.
And the number of questions we see on these boards indicate that this confusion is pretty widespread.1 -
lisawinning4losing wrote: »You can be thin or even fit and still develop health problems. There's no doubt that processed foods aren't good for our health, and are contributing to the rise of common health problems, cancers, and other diseases. Few people achieve perfection, but I think it's best to eat natural, healthy food as much as possible. I would think of processed food as an occasional treat. If all you care about is weight and physique, then that's one thing. But it's another thing to care about your health as a whole. [/quote]
Would that be because physique (arguably) and weight are things we can measure, but health is a nebulous term that becomes cloudy enough to hold to prevailing beliefs?
Eating natural food in and of itself isn't necessarily going to prevent health markers from getting worse. Eating processed food in and of itself isn't necessarily going to make health markers worse.0 -
lisawinning4losing wrote: »You can be thin or even fit and still develop health problems. There's no doubt that processed foods aren't good for our health, and are contributing to the rise of common health problems, cancers, and other diseases. Few people achieve perfection, but I think it's best to eat natural, healthy food as much as possible. I would think of processed food as an occasional treat. If all you care about is weight and physique, then that's one thing. But it's another thing to care about your health as a whole.
So people who eat processed foods only care about weight and physique and not about their health?
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