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Is the amount of easy access processed food harming dieters health?
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Its a really small town, we don't really have much in the way of processed foods here, it lags behind english speaking countries. Basically we eat from a fresh fish market and fresh veg and fruit. There are farmed meat and dairly too. About as processed as it gets is frozen veg and baked goods. We are a close comunity. Mock if you want.
Its a compliment to me. Thank you.
Everybody knows what others are eating, windows are open its good weather and the walls are thin and we see each other at the market buying food.
But this is what I don't understand. You said you see frail elderly thin people too and they are this way from eating processed foods. Where are they getting processed foods if they aren't prevalent in your community?
Or are these elderly people not actually in your community and if not, then how would you have any idea what they eat?
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lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »It must be where I live and my own experience. I'm living in a community in south portugal where there are tons of retired people and pretty much all of them are 'overweight'. They look very healthy, there are people wearing shorts and biking and walking and its amazing. Maybe 'thin', as was said above, is healthy for young people, but I'm seeing that for older people its the 'overweight' crowd that are very active and the thinner elderly are just not looking very active or healthy as the over weght ones are. I see weakness, canes, wheel chairs and unable to walkwell in elderly people who are thin underweight. I dunno, do you have science to prove me wrong? Would you say overweight, not obese, people are being that much more unhealthy than ' thin ' people over the long run of a whole life time?
Someone "looking" healthy isn't the same as being healthy -- my grandfather looked healthy until right before he died, despite having multiple health problems. He stayed active too.
And how do you know what any of these people are regularly eating? If you're judging this opinion off the people you pass on the street and how they look, I don't understand how you can know which of the people are eating mostly unprocessed and whole foods and which aren't.
And if by "thin," you actually mean "underweight," that's a whole different conversation. Being underweight is also associated with health issues and nobody here is saying that the underweight are going to be healthier than an overweight person (I don't have that information).
You were the one who made a definite statement, so you are the one who need to indicate why it is true. One doesn't have to prove you wrong to challenge it -- you were the one who made the statement. I have no idea if it is true or not -- but I know you don't know either, so I can't tell why you said it.
What do you mean by thin? I mean thin, frail, as when older people are thin.
When you wrote "thin," I read it as "Slender, within a healthy weight range."
This is how I read it too, especially given the context.
To add to that, this is the post of Need2 that you originally responded to:I think that in general, being very overweight/obese while eating whole/minimally processed foods is more likely to cause health problems than being thin and eating a lot of processed foods.
Yes, I know. I took exception to throwing "obese"in with "over weight" so I said positively that I think overweight people who eat less processed foods are healthier than thin people who eat ultra processed foods. I especially believe that to be true from what I have observed in europe here. It might not be true in the U.S. I homestly wouldn't know.
She said "very overweight/obese" -- I think very overweight sounds different from what you are talking about, especially since the people are older.
Yeah, I personally don't think it's necessarily unhealthy to be an active 70 year old with a BMI of 26. And I think that's so if one eats a "clean" diet or a diet with lots of overly processed foods (again, whatever that's supposed to mean -- to me the salad I just ate potentially could fall into that category) so long as one also gets nutrient requirements like those from a decent amount of fruits and veg and other such foods.0 -
Well there are the clam diggers, and even though they are skinny, as they are out there digging clams and eat clams and not mch else, they don't look so good. Now there is a case of minimally processed food, but its not looking like they eat anything else and so maybe its not as straight forward as I said.
Are the skinny, sickly-looking clam diggers who don't eat anything else, perchance, impoverished?0 -
Its a really small town, we don't really have much in the way of processed foods here, it lags behind english speaking countries. Basically we eat from a fresh fish market and fresh veg and fruit. There are farmed meat and dairly too. About as processed as it gets is frozen veg and baked goods. We are a close comunity. Mock if you want. Its a compliment to me. Thank you.
Everybody knows what others are eating, windows are open its good weather and the walls are thin and we see each other at the market buying food.
I don't think anyone would mock this--it sounds awesome, beautiful, and I bet the food is wonderful. It's just the argument you're making, based on your own observations (not even observations--more feelings or gut), about processed foods, isn't supported if no one in your "research demographic" is eating overly processed foods beyond baked goods.0 -
Its a really small town, we don't really have much in the way of processed foods here, it lags behind english speaking countries. Basically we eat from a fresh fish market and fresh veg and fruit. There are farmed meat and dairly too. About as processed as it gets is frozen veg and baked goods. We are a close comunity. Mock if you want. Its a compliment to me. Thank you.
Everybody knows what others are eating, windows are open its good weather and the walls are thin and we see each other at the market buying food.
Wait, I thought you said the thin people were eating processed foods. I'm not even sure what your argument is any more . . .
Are you saying that overweight and active people who eat mostly whole foods are healthier than underweight and unactive people who eat mostly whole foods? If so, how does this argument even relate to the topic of the thread?0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »It must be where I live and my own experience. I'm living in a community in south portugal where there are tons of retired people and pretty much all of them are 'overweight'. They look very healthy, there are people wearing shorts and biking and walking and its amazing. Maybe 'thin', as was said above, is healthy for young people, but I'm seeing that for older people its the 'overweight' crowd that are very active and the thinner elderly are just not looking very active or healthy as the over weght ones are. I see weakness, canes, wheel chairs and unable to walkwell in elderly people who are thin underweight. I dunno, do you have science to prove me wrong? Would you say overweight, not obese, people are being that much more unhealthy than ' thin ' people over the long run of a whole life time?
Someone "looking" healthy isn't the same as being healthy -- my grandfather looked healthy until right before he died, despite having multiple health problems. He stayed active too.
And how do you know what any of these people are regularly eating? If you're judging this opinion off the people you pass on the street and how they look, I don't understand how you can know which of the people are eating mostly unprocessed and whole foods and which aren't.
And if by "thin," you actually mean "underweight," that's a whole different conversation. Being underweight is also associated with health issues and nobody here is saying that the underweight are going to be healthier than an overweight person (I don't have that information).
You were the one who made a definite statement, so you are the one who need to indicate why it is true. One doesn't have to prove you wrong to challenge it -- you were the one who made the statement. I have no idea if it is true or not -- but I know you don't know either, so I can't tell why you said it.
What do you mean by thin? I mean thin, frail, as when older people are thin.
When you wrote "thin," I read it as "Slender, within a healthy weight range."
This is how I read it too, especially given the context.
To add to that, this is the post of Need2 that you originally responded to:I think that in general, being very overweight/obese while eating whole/minimally processed foods is more likely to cause health problems than being thin and eating a lot of processed foods.
Yes, I know. I took exception to throwing "obese"in with "over weight" so I said positively that I think overweight people who eat less processed foods are healthier than thin people who eat ultra processed foods. I especially believe that to be true from what I have observed in europe here. It might not be true in the U.S. I homestly wouldn't know.
I take exception to throwing slightly or moderately overweight people in with very overweight people.
There is no cookie cutter answer to this question. Weight, diet and activity level all play a very big part in health. But you could do everything right and still get sick. These are things that lessen our chances of getting sick but there are no guarantees.0 -
jmbmilholland wrote: »Well there are the clam diggers, and even though they are skinny, as they are out there digging clams and eat clams and not mch else, they don't look so good. Now there is a case of minimally processed food, but its not looking like they eat anything else and so maybe its not as straight forward as I said.
Are the skinny, sickly-looking clam diggers who don't eat anything else, perchance, impoverished?
Yes and so am I.jmbmilholland wrote: »Well there are the clam diggers, and even though they are skinny, as they are out there digging clams and eat clams and not mch else, they don't look so good. Now there is a case of minimally processed food, but its not looking like they eat anything else and so maybe its not as straight forward as I said.
Are the skinny, sickly-looking clam diggers who don't eat anything else, perchance, impoverished?
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jmbmilholland wrote: »Its a really small town, we don't really have much in the way of processed foods here, it lags behind english speaking countries. Basically we eat from a fresh fish market and fresh veg and fruit. There are farmed meat and dairly too. About as processed as it gets is frozen veg and baked goods. We are a close comunity. Mock if you want. Its a compliment to me. Thank you.
Everybody knows what others are eating, windows are open its good weather and the walls are thin and we see each other at the market buying food.
I don't think anyone would mock this--it sounds awesome, beautiful, and I bet the food is wonderful. It's just the argument you're making, based on your own observations (not even observations--more feelings or gut), about processed foods, isn't supported if no one in your "research demographic" is eating overly processed foods beyond baked goods.jmbmilholland wrote: »Its a really small town, we don't really have much in the way of processed foods here, it lags behind english speaking countries. Basically we eat from a fresh fish market and fresh veg and fruit. There are farmed meat and dairly too. About as processed as it gets is frozen veg and baked goods. We are a close comunity. Mock if you want. Its a compliment to me. Thank you.
Everybody knows what others are eating, windows are open its good weather and the walls are thin and we see each other at the market buying food.
I don't think anyone would mock this--it sounds awesome, beautiful, and I bet the food is wonderful. It's just the argument you're making, based on your own observations (not even observations--more feelings or gut), about processed foods, isn't supported if no one in your "research demographic" is eating overly processed foods beyond baked goods.
Excuse me, I keep hitting the quote button twice. It may be wondeful for many. Yes. I really wasn't arguing as much as saying my opinion is that from what I see myself here is that those who eat the fresh veg, fruit, fish diet seem healthier older people who ar more active and they are almost all over weight, even maybe higher overweight. The dutch and german people who have retired here seem to me to be the healthiest most robust people.
There is a store where sweets and ultra processed crisps and small cakes and there are baked goods sotes here too. So I have to admit thos exist, I don't go there often and I make my own bread.
I see you want scientific evidence, which I can't provide as these are my observations from my life and seeing other retired and healthy people who are overweight. I will be more careful from here on out to avoid posting my own observations and just ordinary comman sense impressions, which might or might not agree with the scientific papers and reasearch studies.
I understand now that that is not what this place is about and its not welcomed.
I'm remain unoffended and complimented. Peace.
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janejellyroll wrote: »Its a really small town, we don't really have much in the way of processed foods here, it lags behind english speaking countries. Basically we eat from a fresh fish market and fresh veg and fruit. There are farmed meat and dairly too. About as processed as it gets is frozen veg and baked goods. We are a close comunity. Mock if you want. Its a compliment to me. Thank you.
Everybody knows what others are eating, windows are open its good weather and the walls are thin and we see each other at the market buying food.
Wait, I thought you said the thin people were eating processed foods. I'm not even sure what your argument is any more . . .
Are you saying that overweight and active people who eat mostly whole foods are healthier than underweight and unactive people who eat mostly whole foods? If so, how does this argument even relate to the topic of the thread?
Well, you are right Jane! I don't know why I didn't even realize this, I just got off the topic like so many threads do!
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jmbmilholland wrote: »Its a really small town, we don't really have much in the way of processed foods here, it lags behind english speaking countries. Basically we eat from a fresh fish market and fresh veg and fruit. There are farmed meat and dairly too. About as processed as it gets is frozen veg and baked goods. We are a close comunity. Mock if you want. Its a compliment to me. Thank you.
Everybody knows what others are eating, windows are open its good weather and the walls are thin and we see each other at the market buying food.
I don't think anyone would mock this--it sounds awesome, beautiful, and I bet the food is wonderful. It's just the argument you're making, based on your own observations (not even observations--more feelings or gut), about processed foods, isn't supported if no one in your "research demographic" is eating overly processed foods beyond baked goods.jmbmilholland wrote: »Its a really small town, we don't really have much in the way of processed foods here, it lags behind english speaking countries. Basically we eat from a fresh fish market and fresh veg and fruit. There are farmed meat and dairly too. About as processed as it gets is frozen veg and baked goods. We are a close comunity. Mock if you want. Its a compliment to me. Thank you.
Everybody knows what others are eating, windows are open its good weather and the walls are thin and we see each other at the market buying food.
I don't think anyone would mock this--it sounds awesome, beautiful, and I bet the food is wonderful. It's just the argument you're making, based on your own observations (not even observations--more feelings or gut), about processed foods, isn't supported if no one in your "research demographic" is eating overly processed foods beyond baked goods.
Excuse me, I keep hitting the quote button twice. It may be wondeful for many. Yes. I really wasn't arguing as much as saying my opinion is that from what I see myself here is that those who eat the fresh veg, fruit, fish diet seem healthier older people who ar more active and they are almost all over weight, even maybe higher overweight. The dutch and german people who have retired here seem to me to be the healthiest most robust people.
There is a store where sweets and ultra processed crisps and small cakes and there are baked goods sotes here too. So I have to admit thos exist, I don't go there often and I make my own bread.
I see you want scientific evidence, which I can't provide as these are my observations from my life and seeing other retired and healthy people who are overweight. I will be more careful from here on out to avoid posting my own observations and just ordinary comman sense impressions, which might or might not agree with the scientific papers and reasearch studies.
I understand now that that is not what this place is about and its not welcomed.
I'm remain unoffended and complimented. Peace.
It's fine to share your observations as long as you make them clear that they're just based on the small piece of the world that you've observed. We all observe things, but it's important that we remember that our individual anecdotes aren't the same thing as scientific data.
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No, no, I knew and din't imply it was scientific. I'm sure you knew I din't place my observations as scientific fact.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »It must be where I live and my own experience. I'm living in a community in south portugal where there are tons of retired people and pretty much all of them are 'overweight'. They look very healthy, there are people wearing shorts and biking and walking and its amazing. Maybe 'thin', as was said above, is healthy for young people, but I'm seeing that for older people its the 'overweight' crowd that are very active and the thinner elderly are just not looking very active or healthy as the over weght ones are. I see weakness, canes, wheel chairs and unable to walkwell in elderly people who are thin underweight. I dunno, do you have science to prove me wrong? Would you say overweight, not obese, people are being that much more unhealthy than ' thin ' people over the long run of a whole life time?
Someone "looking" healthy isn't the same as being healthy -- my grandfather looked healthy until right before he died, despite having multiple health problems. He stayed active too.
And how do you know what any of these people are regularly eating? If you're judging this opinion off the people you pass on the street and how they look, I don't understand how you can know which of the people are eating mostly unprocessed and whole foods and which aren't.
And if by "thin," you actually mean "underweight," that's a whole different conversation. Being underweight is also associated with health issues and nobody here is saying that the underweight are going to be healthier than an overweight person (I don't have that information).
You were the one who made a definite statement, so you are the one who need to indicate why it is true. One doesn't have to prove you wrong to challenge it -- you were the one who made the statement. I have no idea if it is true or not -- but I know you don't know either, so I can't tell why you said it.
What do you mean by thin? I mean thin, frail, as when older people are thin.
When you wrote "thin," I read it as "Slender, within a healthy weight range."
This is how I read it too, especially given the context.
To add to that, this is the post of Need2 that you originally responded to:I think that in general, being very overweight/obese while eating whole/minimally processed foods is more likely to cause health problems than being thin and eating a lot of processed foods.
Yes, I know. I took exception to throwing "obese"in with "over weight" so I said positively that I think overweight people who eat less processed foods are healthier than thin people who eat ultra processed foods. I especially believe that to be true from what I have observed in europe here. It might not be true in the U.S. I homestly wouldn't know.
I take exception to throwing slightly or moderately overweight people in with very overweight people.
There is no cookie cutter answer to this question. Weight, diet and activity level all play a very big part in health. But you could do everything right and still get sick. These are things that lessen our chances of getting sick but there are no guarantees.
I think people at the whole overweight bmi could be healthy. Even someone inthe obese range could be healthy.
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Its a really small town, we don't really have much in the way of processed foods here, it lags behind english speaking countries. Basically we eat from a fresh fish market and fresh veg and fruit. There are farmed meat and dairly too. About as processed as it gets is frozen veg and baked goods. We are a close comunity. Mock if you want. Its a compliment to me. Thank you.
Everybody knows what others are eating, windows are open its good weather and the walls are thin and we see each other at the market buying food.Well there are the clam diggers, and even though they are skinny, as they are out there digging clams and eat clams and not mch else, they don't look so good. Now there is a case of minimally processed food, but its not looking like they eat anything else and so maybe its not as straight forward as I said.
So how do you know the skinny people are eating the processed foods (which you admitted do not exist in abundance where you live) and the overweight people are not? How do you know that the skinny people "do not look good" because of eating processed foods specifically, but rather look that way because they are malnourished as a result of being impoverished?1 -
No, no, I knew and din't imply it was scientific. I'm sure you knew I din't place my observations as scientific fact.
You said: "I think being overweight and eating whole, minimally processed foods would be healthier than being thin and eating a lot of highly processed foods."
This didn't sound like it was just based on your observations of people in your apartment building. It came across like you were making a statement of fact that would be true for people everywhere.0 -
What defines health as far as weight is concerned is an interesting topic, although probably better suited to its own thread.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »It must be where I live and my own experience. I'm living in a community in south portugal where there are tons of retired people and pretty much all of them are 'overweight'. They look very healthy, there are people wearing shorts and biking and walking and its amazing. Maybe 'thin', as was said above, is healthy for young people, but I'm seeing that for older people its the 'overweight' crowd that are very active and the thinner elderly are just not looking very active or healthy as the over weght ones are. I see weakness, canes, wheel chairs and unable to walkwell in elderly people who are thin underweight. I dunno, do you have science to prove me wrong? Would you say overweight, not obese, people are being that much more unhealthy than ' thin ' people over the long run of a whole life time?
Someone "looking" healthy isn't the same as being healthy -- my grandfather looked healthy until right before he died, despite having multiple health problems. He stayed active too.
And how do you know what any of these people are regularly eating? If you're judging this opinion off the people you pass on the street and how they look, I don't understand how you can know which of the people are eating mostly unprocessed and whole foods and which aren't.
And if by "thin," you actually mean "underweight," that's a whole different conversation. Being underweight is also associated with health issues and nobody here is saying that the underweight are going to be healthier than an overweight person (I don't have that information).
You were the one who made a definite statement, so you are the one who need to indicate why it is true. One doesn't have to prove you wrong to challenge it -- you were the one who made the statement. I have no idea if it is true or not -- but I know you don't know either, so I can't tell why you said it.
What do you mean by thin? I mean thin, frail, as when older people are thin.
When you wrote "thin," I read it as "Slender, within a healthy weight range."
This is how I read it too, especially given the context.
To add to that, this is the post of Need2 that you originally responded to:I think that in general, being very overweight/obese while eating whole/minimally processed foods is more likely to cause health problems than being thin and eating a lot of processed foods.
Yes, I know. I took exception to throwing "obese"in with "over weight" so I said positively that I think overweight people who eat less processed foods are healthier than thin people who eat ultra processed foods. I especially believe that to be true from what I have observed in europe here. It might not be true in the U.S. I homestly wouldn't know.
I take exception to throwing slightly or moderately overweight people in with very overweight people.
There is no cookie cutter answer to this question. Weight, diet and activity level all play a very big part in health. But you could do everything right and still get sick. These are things that lessen our chances of getting sick but there are no guarantees.
I think people at the whole overweight bmi could be healthy. Even someone inthe obese range could be healthy.
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Clam diggers usually eat clams and do a fair amount of drinking and they arethin because they work so hard. That is what I think and see. I don't know that skinny people here eat only ultra processed food. and I dn't think I said thst. I have seen some who do at the bars, where they serve drinks, coffee and sweets, but you know I can't be sure. My point was that of the people I do know more of what they eat, the retired people here, who are overweight are definately very healthy and active. Its just what I have noticed.
I still stick with what I said, people who are overweight and eat less processed foods are healthier than thin people who eat ultra processed foods.
I di't include the clam diggers in that, I believe they are an outlier, I added them for interest.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »It must be where I live and my own experience. I'm living in a community in south portugal where there are tons of retired people and pretty much all of them are 'overweight'. They look very healthy, there are people wearing shorts and biking and walking and its amazing. Maybe 'thin', as was said above, is healthy for young people, but I'm seeing that for older people its the 'overweight' crowd that are very active and the thinner elderly are just not looking very active or healthy as the over weght ones are. I see weakness, canes, wheel chairs and unable to walkwell in elderly people who are thin underweight. I dunno, do you have science to prove me wrong? Would you say overweight, not obese, people are being that much more unhealthy than ' thin ' people over the long run of a whole life time?
Someone "looking" healthy isn't the same as being healthy -- my grandfather looked healthy until right before he died, despite having multiple health problems. He stayed active too.
And how do you know what any of these people are regularly eating? If you're judging this opinion off the people you pass on the street and how they look, I don't understand how you can know which of the people are eating mostly unprocessed and whole foods and which aren't.
And if by "thin," you actually mean "underweight," that's a whole different conversation. Being underweight is also associated with health issues and nobody here is saying that the underweight are going to be healthier than an overweight person (I don't have that information).
You were the one who made a definite statement, so you are the one who need to indicate why it is true. One doesn't have to prove you wrong to challenge it -- you were the one who made the statement. I have no idea if it is true or not -- but I know you don't know either, so I can't tell why you said it.
What do you mean by thin? I mean thin, frail, as when older people are thin.
When you wrote "thin," I read it as "Slender, within a healthy weight range."
This is how I read it too, especially given the context.
To add to that, this is the post of Need2 that you originally responded to:I think that in general, being very overweight/obese while eating whole/minimally processed foods is more likely to cause health problems than being thin and eating a lot of processed foods.
Yes, I know. I took exception to throwing "obese"in with "over weight" so I said positively that I think overweight people who eat less processed foods are healthier than thin people who eat ultra processed foods. I especially believe that to be true from what I have observed in europe here. It might not be true in the U.S. I homestly wouldn't know.
I take exception to throwing slightly or moderately overweight people in with very overweight people.
There is no cookie cutter answer to this question. Weight, diet and activity level all play a very big part in health. But you could do everything right and still get sick. These are things that lessen our chances of getting sick but there are no guarantees.
I think people at the whole overweight bmi could be healthy. Even someone inthe obese range could be healthy.
Obesity is a diagnosable disease so technically an obese person could not be disease free. They may have no other diagnoses, but the odds of that continuing as they age if they remain obese are not good at all.
Anyone could be healthy for the moment at any weight. But the more over fat a person is, the greater the odds that they will not remain healthy.0 -
Yes and I shouln't post any more here, as I am off topic tonight! and don't want to get blamed for it!
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jmbmilholland wrote: »Well there are the clam diggers, and even though they are skinny, as they are out there digging clams and eat clams and not mch else, they don't look so good. Now there is a case of minimally processed food, but its not looking like they eat anything else and so maybe its not as straight forward as I said.
Are the skinny, sickly-looking clam diggers who don't eat anything else, perchance, impoverished?
Yes and so am I.jmbmilholland wrote: »Well there are the clam diggers, and even though they are skinny, as they are out there digging clams and eat clams and not mch else, they don't look so good. Now there is a case of minimally processed food, but its not looking like they eat anything else and so maybe its not as straight forward as I said.
Are the skinny, sickly-looking clam diggers who don't eat anything else, perchance, impoverished?
I am sorry to hear that. I know Portugal is going through a lot of financial difficulty now. In the case of the frail, handicapped elderly, and/or the clam diggers, your observations on how healthy they look are probably the result of poverty as the root problem, which encompasses both diet and access to medical care. It sounds like the thin people you refer to are actually starving, while the more overweight people (who are healthy and glossy; Germans and Dutch who had the money to retire to a nice sunny place) have access to a bounty of foods.
It's a different situation here in the US, where many of our impoverished people are overweight or obese, but still "starving" from lack of nutrients, and afflicted with many health issues. Americans and Europeans probably have very different pictures in their heads when they think of someone who is "typically overweight."0 -
Obesity is a disease? I thought it was a vmi category?0
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