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Is the amount of easy access processed food harming dieters health?
Replies
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^^^^ looks SOOOO gross LOL0
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Having raised my own chickens and milking my goat, I can say I've seen things just as unpleasing, but in a different way.
Calorie for calorie, a 100 grams of canned chicken is the same as a 100 grams of freshly butchered chicken though.
Scientific fact there you have it!
That's doubtful. Canned chicken will likely have preservatives added, most likely sodium.0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I know y'all were talking about the shredded canned chicken. But does anyone actually eat this stuff??
Christine!!! Ugh! Now I feel mentally violated because I can't get the "schloop" sound out of my head as I imagine that can giving birth to a vile demon-chicken. {shudder}
Interestingly enough, although it looks like it's been packed in vaseline, I think that fat and gelatin come naturally from the chicken, and this is the stuff that is raved about by proponents of "bone broth." They will also go out of their way to acquire chicken legs for their broth. I haven't looked into the bone broth craze, but when I make my stock, put it in freezer containers, and cool it, there is well over a quarter inch of fat and gelatin on it. Modern recipe books say to scrape off the fat--nooooo! That stuff is pure gold.
To help cleanse that image from our collective minds, here is a photo of the canned chicken I have in my pantry instead. Look at how cute that chicken is! And the retro old-school brown paper packaging. It makes me feel like a thrifty housewife from the 1930s. Of course, if I actually were, I would get off my butt, stop being scared of pressure canning (deep childhood traumas from being told, "stay out of the kitchen--it might explode."), and can my own darn chicken.
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jmbmilholland wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I know y'all were talking about the shredded canned chicken. But does anyone actually eat this stuff??
Christine!!! Ugh! Now I feel mentally violated because I can't get the "schloop" sound out of my head as I imagine that can giving birth to a vile demon-chicken. {shudder}
Interestingly enough, although it looks like it's been packed in vaseline, I think that fat and gelatin come naturally from the chicken, and this is the stuff that is raved about by proponents of "bone broth." They will also go out of their way to acquire chicken legs for their broth. I haven't looked into the bone broth craze, but when I make my stock, put it in freezer containers, and cool it, there is well over a quarter inch of fat and gelatin on it. Modern recipe books say to scrape off the fat--nooooo! That stuff is pure gold.
To help cleanse that image from our collective minds, here is a photo of the canned chicken I have in my pantry instead. Look at how cute that chicken is! And the retro old-school brown paper packaging. It makes me feel like a thrifty housewife from the 1930s. Of course, if I actually were, I would get off my butt, stop being scared of pressure canning (deep childhood traumas from being told, "stay out of the kitchen--it might explode."), and can my own darn chicken.
Chicken fat is pure gold? Geez, you should see how much fat is on a chicken when it's first killed, especially if killed in late Winter.0 -
Why what?
Cloud, I think the reason people are arguing with you is that there are so many variables, when someone makes a blanket statement, even though it seems intuitive/common sense...it's a lot more complicated than that.
For example, I would agree that, everything else being equal, people who eat less processed foods are likely to be healthier than people who eat ultra-processed foods.
When you put in the weight variable, it makes the stance less easier to defend. How much overweight? There's a big difference between a BMI of 25.1 vs. 29.9. And how much underweight? There's a big difference between BMI 24.9 and a frail elderly woman with cancer.
And for the variable of less processed vs. ultra-processed food--what exactly is the less processed diet? Is it heavily weighted on beef, bacon and potatoes, with no veg? Or is it heavy on fruits, veg, fish, whole grains, and lighter on meats? For the ultra-processed food, is it all Wonderbread, Froot Loops and baloney loaf (I refuse to confer distinction on the Oscar Mayer product by suggesting it has ANY Italian connection), or is it Cheerios, whole grain breads, Progresso canned vegetable soup and Kashi 100% organic whole grain frozen dinners?
Here is a list of all the foods that are considered to be ultra-processed, according to the major Tufts study that has everyone's knickers in a twist about how horrible the American diet is, but if you look at the list, there are a lot of healthy foods to be found in it. Even if you are making your own bread from whole organic wheat that you grew yourself, and salt you hand-collected from the Camargue, it is still apparently considered to be ultra-processed.
Breads
Cakes, cookies and pies
Salty snacks
Frozen and shelf-stable plate meals
Soft drinks, carbonated
Pizza (ready-to-eat/heat)
Fruit drinks‡‡
Breakfast cereals
Sauces, dressings and gravies
Reconstituted meat or fish products
Sweet snacks
Ice cream and ice pops
Milk-based drinks§§
Desserts¶¶
French fries and other potato products
Sandwiches and hamburgers on bun (ready-to-eat/heat)
Instant and canned soups
Other ultra-processed foods††† (this includes Vegan and soy products)
Interestingly, @Christine_72 your whole chicken in a can is considered to be minimally processed.
The food is listed in table 1 of this study:
http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/3/e009892.full.pdf+html0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I know y'all were talking about the shredded canned chicken. But does anyone actually eat this stuff??
Christine!!! Ugh! Now I feel mentally violated because I can't get the "schloop" sound out of my head as I imagine that can giving birth to a vile demon-chicken. {shudder}
Interestingly enough, although it looks like it's been packed in vaseline, I think that fat and gelatin come naturally from the chicken, and this is the stuff that is raved about by proponents of "bone broth." They will also go out of their way to acquire chicken legs for their broth. I haven't looked into the bone broth craze, but when I make my stock, put it in freezer containers, and cool it, there is well over a quarter inch of fat and gelatin on it. Modern recipe books say to scrape off the fat--nooooo! That stuff is pure gold.
To help cleanse that image from our collective minds, here is a photo of the canned chicken I have in my pantry instead. Look at how cute that chicken is! And the retro old-school brown paper packaging. It makes me feel like a thrifty housewife from the 1930s. Of course, if I actually were, I would get off my butt, stop being scared of pressure canning (deep childhood traumas from being told, "stay out of the kitchen--it might explode."), and can my own darn chicken.
Chicken fat is pure gold? Geez, you should see how much fat is on a chicken when it's first killed, especially if killed in late Winter.
Here's a site that takes it even further and calls it "sacred schmaltz"!http://www.sadiesalome.com/recipes/schmaltz.html
The French ideal for a stewing chicken is an old hen with tons of fat--you just can't get that in the US unless you raise your own or have a really good source. As I noted, it is insane that people scrape off the fat and throw it away.0 -
jmbmilholland wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I know y'all were talking about the shredded canned chicken. But does anyone actually eat this stuff??
Christine!!! Ugh! Now I feel mentally violated because I can't get the "schloop" sound out of my head as I imagine that can giving birth to a vile demon-chicken. {shudder}
Interestingly enough, although it looks like it's been packed in vaseline, I think that fat and gelatin come naturally from the chicken, and this is the stuff that is raved about by proponents of "bone broth." They will also go out of their way to acquire chicken legs for their broth. I haven't looked into the bone broth craze, but when I make my stock, put it in freezer containers, and cool it, there is well over a quarter inch of fat and gelatin on it. Modern recipe books say to scrape off the fat--nooooo! That stuff is pure gold.
To help cleanse that image from our collective minds, here is a photo of the canned chicken I have in my pantry instead. Look at how cute that chicken is! And the retro old-school brown paper packaging. It makes me feel like a thrifty housewife from the 1930s. Of course, if I actually were, I would get off my butt, stop being scared of pressure canning (deep childhood traumas from being told, "stay out of the kitchen--it might explode."), and can my own darn chicken.
Chicken fat is pure gold? Geez, you should see how much fat is on a chicken when it's first killed, especially if killed in late Winter.
Here's a site that takes it even further and calls it "sacred schmaltz"!http://www.sadiesalome.com/recipes/schmaltz.html
The French ideal for a stewing chicken is an old hen with tons of fat--you just can't get that in the US unless you raise your own or have a really good source. As I noted, it is insane that people scrape off the fat and throw it away.
I guess that makes me insane.0 -
jmbmilholland wrote: »
To what extent? If I eat ice cream once a week, am I automatically less likely to be healthy? If yes, how? Or do I have to eat it daily? Or more than 50% of my calories?0 -
jmbmilholland wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I know y'all were talking about the shredded canned chicken. But does anyone actually eat this stuff??
Christine!!! Ugh! Now I feel mentally violated because I can't get the "schloop" sound out of my head as I imagine that can giving birth to a vile demon-chicken. {shudder}
Interestingly enough, although it looks like it's been packed in vaseline, I think that fat and gelatin come naturally from the chicken, and this is the stuff that is raved about by proponents of "bone broth." They will also go out of their way to acquire chicken legs for their broth. I haven't looked into the bone broth craze, but when I make my stock, put it in freezer containers, and cool it, there is well over a quarter inch of fat and gelatin on it. Modern recipe books say to scrape off the fat--nooooo! That stuff is pure gold.
To help cleanse that image from our collective minds, here is a photo of the canned chicken I have in my pantry instead. Look at how cute that chicken is! And the retro old-school brown paper packaging. It makes me feel like a thrifty housewife from the 1930s. Of course, if I actually were, I would get off my butt, stop being scared of pressure canning (deep childhood traumas from being told, "stay out of the kitchen--it might explode."), and can my own darn chicken.
Chicken fat is pure gold? Geez, you should see how much fat is on a chicken when it's first killed, especially if killed in late Winter.
Here's a site that takes it even further and calls it "sacred schmaltz"!http://www.sadiesalome.com/recipes/schmaltz.html
The French ideal for a stewing chicken is an old hen with tons of fat--you just can't get that in the US unless you raise your own or have a really good source. As I noted, it is insane that people scrape off the fat and throw it away.
Yes indeed - and there isn't any better flavoring for roast potatoes in my mind than chicken fat. Preferably dripping off of a bird on the rotisserie directly above the roasting potatoes. I did try duck fat potatoes what with all the culinary hype, but they did not deliver any better flavor or texture. Not in my opinion, anyway.0 -
jmbmilholland wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I know y'all were talking about the shredded canned chicken. But does anyone actually eat this stuff??
Christine!!! Ugh! Now I feel mentally violated because I can't get the "schloop" sound out of my head as I imagine that can giving birth to a vile demon-chicken. {shudder}
Interestingly enough, although it looks like it's been packed in vaseline, I think that fat and gelatin come naturally from the chicken, and this is the stuff that is raved about by proponents of "bone broth." They will also go out of their way to acquire chicken legs for their broth. I haven't looked into the bone broth craze, but when I make my stock, put it in freezer containers, and cool it, there is well over a quarter inch of fat and gelatin on it. Modern recipe books say to scrape off the fat--nooooo! That stuff is pure gold.
To help cleanse that image from our collective minds, here is a photo of the canned chicken I have in my pantry instead. Look at how cute that chicken is! And the retro old-school brown paper packaging. It makes me feel like a thrifty housewife from the 1930s. Of course, if I actually were, I would get off my butt, stop being scared of pressure canning (deep childhood traumas from being told, "stay out of the kitchen--it might explode."), and can my own darn chicken.
Chicken fat is pure gold? Geez, you should see how much fat is on a chicken when it's first killed, especially if killed in late Winter.
Here's a site that takes it even further and calls it "sacred schmaltz"!http://www.sadiesalome.com/recipes/schmaltz.html
The French ideal for a stewing chicken is an old hen with tons of fat--you just can't get that in the US unless you raise your own or have a really good source. As I noted, it is insane that people scrape off the fat and throw it away.
Yes indeed - and there isn't any better flavoring for roast potatoes in my mind than chicken fat. Preferably dripping off of a bird on the rotisserie directly above the roasting potatoes. I did try duck fat potatoes what with all the culinary hype, but they did not deliver any better flavor or texture. Not in my opinion, anyway.
Just cooking the potatoes with a whole chicken (or chicken pieces, which may allow for a better arrangement) works, though. So tasty. So not low cal. ;-)0 -
stevencloser wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »
To what extent? If I eat ice cream once a week, am I automatically less likely to be healthy? If yes, how? Or do I have to eat it daily? Or more than 50% of my calories?
Quit being deliberately tedious and read the rest of the post for the nuance, including the list of ingredients. Also, feel free to cross-reference to my comment on the other thread on ultra-processed food. And then come back with a more intelligent, debatable comment.0 -
jmbmilholland wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »
To what extent? If I eat ice cream once a week, am I automatically less likely to be healthy? If yes, how? Or do I have to eat it daily? Or more than 50% of my calories?
Quit being deliberately tedious and read the rest of the post for the nuance, including the list of ingredients. Also, feel free to cross-reference to my comment on the other thread on ultra-processed food. And then come back with a more intelligent, debatable comment.
I, for one, do not his comment tedious at all; I believe it has merit. What's the problem with the ingredients?0 -
jmbmilholland wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »
To what extent? If I eat ice cream once a week, am I automatically less likely to be healthy? If yes, how? Or do I have to eat it daily? Or more than 50% of my calories?
Quit being deliberately tedious and read the rest of the post for the nuance, including the list of ingredients. Also, feel free to cross-reference to my comment on the other thread on ultra-processed food. And then come back with a more intelligent, debatable comment.
What's tedious and unintelligent about asking you to provide context? You go ahead and say that you believe people who eat more processed foods are less likely to be healthy. What amounts are ayou talking about there?
This is turning into a standard "good and bad foods" discussion. If your overall diet is on point in terms of nutrition, what is having "processed food" as part of it going to do to you, how is it doing that and starting from what amounts?0 -
ClosetBayesian wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »
To what extent? If I eat ice cream once a week, am I automatically less likely to be healthy? If yes, how? Or do I have to eat it daily? Or more than 50% of my calories?
Quit being deliberately tedious and read the rest of the post for the nuance, including the list of ingredients. Also, feel free to cross-reference to my comment on the other thread on ultra-processed food. And then come back with a more intelligent, debatable comment.
I, for one, do not his comment tedious at all; I believe it has merit. What's the problem with the ingredients?
Well, in both threads, I explain that it is a matter of curating your diet to be balanced regardless of which portion of the list it comes from, because the entire food list in table 1 is a false dichotomy and utter crap. Of course there is room for icecream--see my comments on the other thread about cream magically becoming ultraprocessed because it rises up to the top of the milk bucket and you skim it. There is also plenty of room for oreos.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »
To what extent? If I eat ice cream once a week, am I automatically less likely to be healthy? If yes, how? Or do I have to eat it daily? Or more than 50% of my calories?
Quit being deliberately tedious and read the rest of the post for the nuance, including the list of ingredients. Also, feel free to cross-reference to my comment on the other thread on ultra-processed food. And then come back with a more intelligent, debatable comment.
What's tedious and unintelligent about asking you to provide context? You go ahead and say that you believe people who eat more processed foods are less likely to be healthy. What amounts are ayou talking about there?
This is turning into a standard "good and bad foods" discussion. If your overall diet is on point in terms of nutrition, what is having "processed food" as part of it going to do to you, how is it doing that and starting from what amounts?
See my comment above about the gist of my post (in a lower paragraph) being that either list can be curated to comprise a healthy or unhealthy diet--I did not say any foods were intrinsically good or bad. Also, here is a cut and paste of my comment on Table 1 once I actually dug into the study:
Based on the other processed food thread, I just started to dig into the actual foods shown in table 1 of this study, and find the way the have delineate the foods into "mutually exclusive" to be utterly baffling. Apparently all pasta falls under "unprocessed" and all breads fall under "ultraprocessed." So, white pasta is presented as being healthier than 100% whole grain bread. This is just stupid. And beer and wine are just "processed" while 100% organic grape juice is "ultraprocessed." Again--stupid. Milk is unprocessed, but if you set your milk bucket aside and the cream rises to the top and you skim it, it magically becomes "processed." If you grab a piece of honycomb out of a beehive and eat it--guess what--magically processed! Roots & tubers are unprocessed but if they become a french fry or "potato product" then they are magically ultraprocessed. What if you fry your unprocessed cassava or bacon or eggs (which, ironically, removes the fat)? So much stupid. It burns!0 -
My child is diabetic and the doctor told us always to avoid processed foods of all types meaning pre-made dinners, cream of wheat, pre-made potatoes, pancake batter,ice cream, pasta is a big one, .. so eat whole foods. Okay foods are chicken, fish, some red meat, yogurt, beans, cheese, whole wheat bread(s) ,brown rice, fresh veggies and fruit etc from my understanding. Processed foods make your blood sugar go thru the roof. I love cream of wheat but it's not as good for you as you think. Yes junk food all highly processed is not good for you so McDonalds burgers are not as good for you as a veggie burger you make yourself. I'm focusing right now on this whole subject so I make my own "power shakes" I do not buy them at Panera bread. I know there are mix fresh berries with ice and non -fat yogurt and chi seeds because I made it myself. So canned tuna is just a fish in a can so probably okay but fresh tuna you cook yourself is still better. I guess if you didn't make it your self , from my understanding you can trust the ingredients 100% to be "natural', "organic" etc . But something that has been "milled" is a no-no.0
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karenlwashburn wrote: »Processed foods make your blood sugar go thru the roof.
Cheese is a processed food, so are frozen vegetables, and smoked salmon. A veggie burger you make yourself might well be, depending on what's in it (and the bun is, no matter what, as jmbmilholland pointed out re the definition currently being used).
Refined carbs (or, really, carbs without fiber) are the issue, typically, for people with blood sugar problems (which not everyone has). A non processed food like a plain potato or even a banana could easily lead to blood sugar spikes for many with issues, whereas a more processed food might not. For example, senecarr pointed to a BB-sponsored "clean" frozen meal. Similarly, I can get some paleo frozen meals (yeah, makes my head hurt too) that often are quite low carb and high in veg and protein and coconut oil or the like -- probably would not make blood sugar spike in many cases, but certainly "ultra processed" under some definitions (pre made meal). I bought a salad for lunch yesterday -- processed, but would it made blood sugar spike? Depends on what's on the salad.
The point is that the labels ("processed" and even "ultra processed") don't tell us what's in the food, so are bad proxies when we are talking about something else (like sugar content or nutrition or percentage of carbs vs. fiber and fat and protein). Does that make sense? I so often feel like people are not communicating.0 -
karenlwashburn wrote: »My child is diabetic and the doctor told us always to avoid processed foods of all types meaning pre-made dinners, cream of wheat, pre-made potatoes, pancake batter,ice cream, pasta is a big one, .. so eat whole foods. Okay foods are chicken, fish, some red meat, yogurt, beans, cheese, whole wheat bread(s) ,brown rice, fresh veggies and fruit etc from my understanding. Processed foods make your blood sugar go thru the roof. I love cream of wheat but it's not as good for you as you think. Yes junk food all highly processed is not good for you so McDonalds burgers are not as good for you as a veggie burger you make yourself. I'm focusing right now on this whole subject so I make my own "power shakes" I do not buy them at Panera bread. I know there are mix fresh berries with ice and non -fat yogurt and chi seeds because I made it myself. So canned tuna is just a fish in a can so probably okay but fresh tuna you cook yourself is still better. I guess if you didn't make it your self , from my understanding you can trust the ingredients 100% to be "natural', "organic" etc . But something that has been "milled" is a no-no.
Your list if OK foods includes processed foods BTW. Meat, yogurt, cheese, bread are all processed.0 -
Technically cooking and butchering are processing so I guess the only unprocessed foods are raw veggies and fruits?0
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singingflutelady wrote: »Technically cooking and butchering are processing so I guess the only unprocessed foods are raw veggies and fruits?
But we all know that is not what is meant in this discussion. Same for frozen vegetables.0 -
The processed grains on @karenlwashburn 's list would have made my blood sugar spike, too. Unless I doctored it with fiber or vinegar. Rice was particularly digestible and created spikes. Unless of course, I had it with lots of veggies, sauce, and other stuff.0
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Having raised my own chickens and milking my goat, I can say I've seen things just as unpleasing, but in a different way.
Calorie for calorie, a 100 grams of canned chicken is the same as a 100 grams of freshly butchered chicken though.
Scientific fact there you have it!
That's doubtful. Canned chicken will likely have preservatives added, most likely sodium.
new to me, do preservatives and salt add caloric value? I like my foods fresh mostly.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Technically cooking and butchering are processing so I guess the only unprocessed foods are raw veggies and fruits?
But we all know that is not what is meant in this discussion. Same for frozen vegetables.
Since just 4 posts above you there's someone who heard bread is not processed and somehow all processed foods make your blood sugar rise, while apparently everyone knows what is NOT meant, no one knows what IS meant.0 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Technically cooking and butchering are processing so I guess the only unprocessed foods are raw veggies and fruits?
In the Tufts study, they are only considered processed if salted (ham or brined veg) and ultraprocessed if "reconstituted meat product" or part of a frozen "plate meal." So chicken and greenbeans are unprocessed if frozen by themselves, but if they are put together and frozen, they suddenly become ultraprocessed.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Technically cooking and butchering are processing so I guess the only unprocessed foods are raw veggies and fruits?
But we all know that is not what is meant in this discussion. Same for frozen vegetables.
Since just 4 posts above you there's someone who heard bread is not processed and somehow all processed foods make your blood sugar rise, while apparently everyone knows what is NOT meant, no one knows what IS meant.
Yes my comment was in response to the "my doctor said to avoid all processed foods" and then she lists processed foods that she eats that she doesn't think are processes like cheese, yogurt and bread0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Technically cooking and butchering are processing so I guess the only unprocessed foods are raw veggies and fruits?
But we all know that is not what is meant in this discussion. Same for frozen vegetables.
Since just 4 posts above you there's someone who heard bread is not processed and somehow all processed foods make your blood sugar rise, while apparently everyone knows what is NOT meant, no one knows what IS meant.
I took that as them explaining what they (or their child's doctor) meant by 'processed foods' since they started with "meaning ..."0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Having raised my own chickens and milking my goat, I can say I've seen things just as unpleasing, but in a different way.
Calorie for calorie, a 100 grams of canned chicken is the same as a 100 grams of freshly butchered chicken though.
Scientific fact there you have it!
That's doubtful. Canned chicken will likely have preservatives added, most likely sodium.
new to me, do preservatives and salt add caloric value? I like my foods fresh mostly.
Do preservatives and salt add caloric value? new to this.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Technically cooking and butchering are processing so I guess the only unprocessed foods are raw veggies and fruits?
But we all know that is not what is meant in this discussion. Same for frozen vegetables.
Since just 4 posts above you there's someone who heard bread is not processed and somehow all processed foods make your blood sugar rise, while apparently everyone knows what is NOT meant, no one knows what IS meant.
I took that as them explaining what they (or their child's doctor) meant by 'processed foods' since they started with "meaning ..."
By that logic, though, yogurt, cheese, and whole wheat bread are considered "whole foods". I have yet to encounter a whole wheat bread tree. Maybe they're tubers?0 -
ClosetBayesian wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Technically cooking and butchering are processing so I guess the only unprocessed foods are raw veggies and fruits?
But we all know that is not what is meant in this discussion. Same for frozen vegetables.
Since just 4 posts above you there's someone who heard bread is not processed and somehow all processed foods make your blood sugar rise, while apparently everyone knows what is NOT meant, no one knows what IS meant.
I took that as them explaining what they (or their child's doctor) meant by 'processed foods' since they started with "meaning ..."
By that logic, though, yogurt, cheese, and whole wheat bread are considered "whole foods". I have yet to encounter a whole wheat bread tree. Maybe they're tubers?
I didn't say it was logical, I said I interpreted it as explanation of the term.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Having raised my own chickens and milking my goat, I can say I've seen things just as unpleasing, but in a different way.
Calorie for calorie, a 100 grams of canned chicken is the same as a 100 grams of freshly butchered chicken though.
Scientific fact there you have it!
That's doubtful. Canned chicken will likely have preservatives added, most likely sodium.
new to me, do preservatives and salt add caloric value? I like my foods fresh mostly.
Do preservatives and salt add caloric value? new to this.
nope.0
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