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Is the amount of easy access processed food harming dieters health?
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Replies
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Lovee_Dove7 wrote: »If you are losing weight, it's because you have a deficit. So what dieter is not CICO?
But a scale number is not the only thing I'm looking for, therefore types of foods and macros are important to me.
I aim to eat the majority of my food as my idea of natural, not processed.
What does NOT work for me is "eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your macros." Not all foods agree with my system. The metabolism responds to the type of diet you choose, and I think that's a good thing.
That's called backpedaling, there. Define 'processed'. Milk is processed. Frozen food is processed.
The metabolism responds to your activity level, not the type of food that you eat, when eating as we're discussing -well rounded, macro eating in moderation. And not getting into semantics, like whether or not you have food intolerances (lots of us do).
Some would say an unprocessed food is raw, having nothing done to it. Cooking, boiling grilling a vegetable you bought fresh is a processed food. As pointed out unless you milked it and drank it fresh, milk is processed. By the way, milk in cartons doesn't taste like fresh milk out of cows or goats either.
It might do us well to define 'processed'. We could have minimally processed, like cooked food. More highly processed food, and what people call 'junk food'. I dunno, just a suggestion. These definitions might sway the discussion towards more people agreeing its better to eat less processed foods for health reasons.
In my experience, attempting to define "processed" foods makes me realize that it's a pretty meaningless category for determining whether or not I should regularly eat a food. Some processed foods fit great into my calorie and nutrient goals. Some don't. In each case, knowing the nutritional information about the food is much more useful than knowing whether or not it is "highly processed."0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I know the main aim of dieting for most of us is to lose weight but what could processed food be doing to our organs? I'm honestly interested in whether being thin but eating these sorts of foods has a detrimental effect on health?
I don't think there is a simple answer to that question. It depends on the over balance of foods, genetics, medical history/problems, etc.
I think that in general, being very overweight/obese while eating whole/minimally processed foods is more likely to cause health problems than being thin and eating a lot of processed foods.
I think being overweight and eating whole, minimally processed foods would be healthier than being thin and eating a lot of highly processed foods.
I would respectfully disagree. There is a ton of data showing how being overweight in and of itself can lead directly to a slew of health issues, regardless of what you eat. There is a lot of internet noise but not much solid data showing processed foods cause anything.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I know the main aim of dieting for most of us is to lose weight but what could processed food be doing to our organs? I'm honestly interested in whether being thin but eating these sorts of foods has a detrimental effect on health?
I don't think there is a simple answer to that question. It depends on the over balance of foods, genetics, medical history/problems, etc.
I think that in general, being very overweight/obese while eating whole/minimally processed foods is more likely to cause health problems than being thin and eating a lot of processed foods.
I think being overweight and eating whole, minimally processed foods would be healthier than being thin and eating a lot of highly processed foods.
Odd as losing weight when obese or overweight tends to improve health markers even when food is changed from a mixed to purely highly processed convenience foods.
What is your conclusion based on?0 -
Lovee_Dove7 wrote: »If you are losing weight, it's because you have a deficit. So what dieter is not CICO?
But a scale number is not the only thing I'm looking for, therefore types of foods and macros are important to me.
I aim to eat the majority of my food as my idea of natural, not processed.
What does NOT work for me is "eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your macros." Not all foods agree with my system. The metabolism responds to the type of diet you choose, and I think that's a good thing.
That's called backpedaling, there. Define 'processed'. Milk is processed. Frozen food is processed.
The metabolism responds to your activity level, not the type of food that you eat, when eating as we're discussing -well rounded, macro eating in moderation. And not getting into semantics, like whether or not you have food intolerances (lots of us do).
Some would say an unprocessed food is raw, having nothing done to it. Cooking, boiling grilling a vegetable you bought fresh is a processed food. As pointed out unless you milked it and drank it fresh, milk is processed. By the way, milk in cartons doesn't taste like fresh milk out of cows or goats either.
It might do us well to define 'processed'. We could have minimally processed, like cooked food. More highly processed food, and what people call 'junk food'. I dunno, just a suggestion. These definitions might sway the discussion towards more people agreeing its better to eat less processed foods for health reasons.
Brazil has taken a shot at it, defining "minimally processed", "processed" and "ultra-processed". Here are examples from their guidelines of "ultra processed" foods:
"...salty fatty packaged snacks, soft drinks, sweetened breakfast cereals, and instant noodles..."
http://www.fao.org/nutrition/education/food-dietary-guidelines/regions/brazil/en/0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I know the main aim of dieting for most of us is to lose weight but what could processed food be doing to our organs? I'm honestly interested in whether being thin but eating these sorts of foods has a detrimental effect on health?
I don't think there is a simple answer to that question. It depends on the over balance of foods, genetics, medical history/problems, etc.
I think that in general, being very overweight/obese while eating whole/minimally processed foods is more likely to cause health problems than being thin and eating a lot of processed foods.
I think being overweight and eating whole, minimally processed foods would be healthier than being thin and eating a lot of highly processed foods.
Thoughts are cheap. My health improved significantly when I lost weight. My first ten, thirty, and then eighty pound loss improved my health markers across the board including remission of T2 diabetes, high blood pressure, and cholesterol. I eat a lot of home-cooked meals, so not a lot of ultra processed foods, but I don't turn my nose up at those foods either. I ate a healthy diet before and after my significant weight loss.0 -
Lovee_Dove7 wrote: »If you are losing weight, it's because you have a deficit. So what dieter is not CICO?
But a scale number is not the only thing I'm looking for, therefore types of foods and macros are important to me.
I aim to eat the majority of my food as my idea of natural, not processed.
What does NOT work for me is "eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your macros." Not all foods agree with my system. The metabolism responds to the type of diet you choose, and I think that's a good thing.
That's called backpedaling, there. Define 'processed'. Milk is processed. Frozen food is processed.
The metabolism responds to your activity level, not the type of food that you eat, when eating as we're discussing -well rounded, macro eating in moderation. And not getting into semantics, like whether or not you have food intolerances (lots of us do).
Some would say an unprocessed food is raw, having nothing done to it. Cooking, boiling grilling a vegetable you bought fresh is a processed food. As pointed out unless you milked it and drank it fresh, milk is processed. By the way, milk in cartons doesn't taste like fresh milk out of cows or goats either.
It might do us well to define 'processed'. We could have minimally processed, like cooked food. More highly processed food, and what people call 'junk food'. I dunno, just a suggestion. These definitions might sway the discussion towards more people agreeing its better to eat less processed foods for health reasons.
Brazil has taken a shot at it, defining "minimally processed", "processed" and "ultra-processed". Here are examples from their guidelines of "ultra processed" foods:
"...salty fatty packaged snacks, soft drinks, sweetened breakfast cereals, and instant noodles..."
http://www.fao.org/nutrition/education/food-dietary-guidelines/regions/brazil/en/
Instant noodles ... so China is screwed then, according to Brazil's guideline.
I really do like Auntie Chun's spicy sweet chili noodles and used to eat them regularly. Very tasty, but I have to add protein to them or they're just not filling. Bumps the calories up higher than I'd like because the noodles were up there already.0 -
I did say 'overweight ', not 'obese'.
I stick with what I said. Thin and eating solely overly processed foods is not as healthy as being overweight and eating whole mimimally processed food. Don't even inquire about science, I haven't got it.1 -
I did say 'overweight ', not 'obese'.
I stick with what I said. Thin and eating solely overly processed foods is not as healthy as being overweight and eating whole mimimally processed food. Don't even inquire about science, I haven't got it.
Oh well then I guess that settles it...0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Lovee_Dove7 wrote: »If you are losing weight, it's because you have a deficit. So what dieter is not CICO?
But a scale number is not the only thing I'm looking for, therefore types of foods and macros are important to me.
I aim to eat the majority of my food as my idea of natural, not processed.
What does NOT work for me is "eat whatever you want as long as it fits in your macros." Not all foods agree with my system. The metabolism responds to the type of diet you choose, and I think that's a good thing.
That's called backpedaling, there. Define 'processed'. Milk is processed. Frozen food is processed.
The metabolism responds to your activity level, not the type of food that you eat, when eating as we're discussing -well rounded, macro eating in moderation. And not getting into semantics, like whether or not you have food intolerances (lots of us do).
Some would say an unprocessed food is raw, having nothing done to it. Cooking, boiling grilling a vegetable you bought fresh is a processed food. As pointed out unless you milked it and drank it fresh, milk is processed. By the way, milk in cartons doesn't taste like fresh milk out of cows or goats either.
It might do us well to define 'processed'. We could have minimally processed, like cooked food. More highly processed food, and what people call 'junk food'. I dunno, just a suggestion. These definitions might sway the discussion towards more people agreeing its better to eat less processed foods for health reasons.
In my experience, attempting to define "processed" foods makes me realize that it's a pretty meaningless category for determining whether or not I should regularly eat a food. Some processed foods fit great into my calorie and nutrient goals. Some don't. In each case, knowing the nutritional information about the food is much more useful than knowing whether or not it is "highly processed."
This is exactly how I feel.0 -
I did say 'overweight ', not 'obese'.
I stick with what I said. Thin and eating solely overly processed foods is not as healthy as being overweight and eating whole mimimally processed food. Don't even inquire about science, I haven't got it.
If there isn't any science to support this, what led you to draw this conclusion?1 -
I did say 'overweight ', not 'obese'.
I stick with what I said. Thin and eating solely overly processed foods is not as healthy as being overweight and eating whole mimimally processed food. Don't even inquire about science, I haven't got it.
Yes, but someone asked you "why" you feel that way? Which is a legitimate question.
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IMO, I think it depends. I would say genetic susceptibility, environmental factors, and the specific types of foods being eaten could all impact whether health is better or worse being thin and eating highly processed foods vs overweight and eating highly nutritious diet.
FWIW, thin people can get obesity-related diseases like high blood pressure and diabetes, especially if there is a genetic risk present.0 -
Wickedfaery73 wrote: »I think that is partly because a lot of those foods end up with added sugar. Like non-fat and low fat yogurts. Many have a ton of extra sugar.
Exactly. "I'm eating a whole package of cookies, but it's OK because they're low fat!"
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It must be where I live and my own experience. I'm living in a community in south portugal where there are tons of retired people and pretty much all of them are 'overweight'. They look very healthy, there are people wearing shorts and biking and walking and its amazing. Maybe 'thin', as was said above, is healthy for young people, but I'm seeing that for older people its the 'overweight' crowd that are very active and the thinner elderly are just not looking very active or healthy as the over weght ones are. I see weakness, canes, wheel chairs and unable to walkwell in elderly people who are thin underweight. I dunno, do you have science to prove me wrong? Would you say overweight, not obese, people are being that much more unhealthy than ' thin ' people eating ultra processed foods over the long run of a whole life time?0
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It must be where I live and my own experience. I'm living in a community in south portugal where there are tons of retired people and pretty much all of them are 'overweight'. They look very healthy, there are people wearing shorts and biking and walking and its amazing. Maybe 'thin', as was said above, is healthy for young people, but I'm seeing that for older people its the 'overweight' crowd that are very active and the thinner elderly are just not looking very active or healthy as the over weght ones are. I see weakness, canes, wheel chairs and unable to walkwell in elderly people who are thin underweight. I dunno, do you have science to prove me wrong? Would you say overweight, not obese, people are being that much more unhealthy than ' thin ' people over the long run of a whole life time?
Someone "looking" healthy isn't the same as being healthy -- my grandfather looked healthy until right before he died, despite having multiple health problems. He stayed active too.
And how do you know what any of these people are regularly eating? If you're judging this opinion off the people you pass on the street and how they look, I don't understand how you can know which of the people are eating mostly unprocessed and whole foods and which aren't.
And if by "thin," you actually mean "underweight," that's a whole different conversation. Being underweight is also associated with health issues and nobody here is saying that the underweight are going to be healthier than an overweight person (I don't have that information).
You were the one who made a definite statement, so you are the one who need to indicate why it is true. One doesn't have to prove you wrong to challenge it -- you were the one who made the statement. I have no idea if it is true or not -- but I know you don't know either, so I can't tell why you said it.0 -
It must be where I live and my own experience. I'm living in a community in south portugal where there are tons of retired people and pretty much all of them are 'overweight'. They look very healthy, there are people wearing shorts and biking and walking and its amazing. Maybe 'thin', as was said above, is healthy for young people, but I'm seeing that for older people its the 'overweight' crowd that are very active and the thinner elderly are just not looking very active or healthy as the over weght ones are. I see weakness, canes, wheel chairs and unable to walkwell in elderly people who are thin underweight. I dunno, do you have science to prove me wrong? Would you say overweight, not obese, people are being that much more unhealthy than ' thin ' people eating ultra processed foods over the long run of a whole life time?
Cherry picking with a survivor bias. People who have an geriatric related illness that causes becoming underweight are liable to have that same illness restrict physical activity. No one is saying underweight is healther, or even that it is healthier than overweight.
Your observation is a lot like the study that found that being overweight was better for mortality rate than being normal weight. The reason why it found that it is that it in no way corrected for pre-existing conditions like I mentioned, smoking being the most notable as just correcting for smoking alone changed the data remarkably to show, yeah, being a healthy weight smoker is not healthier than an overweight nonsmoker, but being a nonsmoker at normal weight is still healthier than either.0 -
I did say 'overweight ', not 'obese'.
I stick with what I said. Thin and eating solely overly processed foods is not as healthy as being overweight and eating whole mimimally processed food. Don't even inquire about science, I haven't got it.
I would agree with this with the qualifier of moderately or less overweight and are active based solely on experience. I have many friends my age (50's or older) who have never been overweight but have eaten a poor diet of convenience foods and get little exercise who are now suffering health problems linked to diet/activity like high BP, hyperlipidemia, T2 diabetes, insulin resistance, heart or vascular disease, etc. While other friends that eat more whole foods and homemade meals and stay active have avoided or suffered less of these diseases even if they are overweight. But I think activity level is as a big a part of it as diet, maybe more.0 -
I fully agree. I also know people who are overweight or borderline there but are active, and I would speculate that they may be healthier on the inside than people who are thin but inactive and on a diet of highly processed foods.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I did say 'overweight ', not 'obese'.
I stick with what I said. Thin and eating solely overly processed foods is not as healthy as being overweight and eating whole mimimally processed food. Don't even inquire about science, I haven't got it.
I would agree with this with the qualifier of moderately or less overweight and are active based solely on experience. I have many friends my age (50's or older) who have never been overweight but have eaten a poor diet of convenience foods and get little exercise who are now suffering health problems linked to diet/activity like high BP, hyperlipidemia, T2 diabetes, insulin resistance, heart or vascular disease, etc. While other friends that eat more whole foods and homemade meals and stay active have avoided or suffered less of these diseases even if they are overweight. But I think activity level is as a big a part of it as diet, maybe more.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I know the main aim of dieting for most of us is to lose weight but what could processed food be doing to our organs? I'm honestly interested in whether being thin but eating these sorts of foods has a detrimental effect on health?
I don't think there is a simple answer to that question. It depends on the over balance of foods, genetics, medical history/problems, etc.
I think that in general, being very overweight/obese while eating whole/minimally processed foods is more likely to cause health problems than being thin and eating a lot of processed foods.
I think being overweight and eating whole, minimally processed foods would be healthier than being thin and eating a lot of highly processed foods.
Then you don't understand obesity and the associated comorbidities.0
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