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Is the amount of easy access processed food harming dieters health?
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stevencloser wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »
To what extent? If I eat ice cream once a week, am I automatically less likely to be healthy? If yes, how? Or do I have to eat it daily? Or more than 50% of my calories?
Quit being deliberately tedious and read the rest of the post for the nuance, including the list of ingredients. Also, feel free to cross-reference to my comment on the other thread on ultra-processed food. And then come back with a more intelligent, debatable comment.0 -
jmbmilholland wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »
To what extent? If I eat ice cream once a week, am I automatically less likely to be healthy? If yes, how? Or do I have to eat it daily? Or more than 50% of my calories?
Quit being deliberately tedious and read the rest of the post for the nuance, including the list of ingredients. Also, feel free to cross-reference to my comment on the other thread on ultra-processed food. And then come back with a more intelligent, debatable comment.
I, for one, do not his comment tedious at all; I believe it has merit. What's the problem with the ingredients?0 -
jmbmilholland wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »
To what extent? If I eat ice cream once a week, am I automatically less likely to be healthy? If yes, how? Or do I have to eat it daily? Or more than 50% of my calories?
Quit being deliberately tedious and read the rest of the post for the nuance, including the list of ingredients. Also, feel free to cross-reference to my comment on the other thread on ultra-processed food. And then come back with a more intelligent, debatable comment.
What's tedious and unintelligent about asking you to provide context? You go ahead and say that you believe people who eat more processed foods are less likely to be healthy. What amounts are ayou talking about there?
This is turning into a standard "good and bad foods" discussion. If your overall diet is on point in terms of nutrition, what is having "processed food" as part of it going to do to you, how is it doing that and starting from what amounts?0 -
ClosetBayesian wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »
To what extent? If I eat ice cream once a week, am I automatically less likely to be healthy? If yes, how? Or do I have to eat it daily? Or more than 50% of my calories?
Quit being deliberately tedious and read the rest of the post for the nuance, including the list of ingredients. Also, feel free to cross-reference to my comment on the other thread on ultra-processed food. And then come back with a more intelligent, debatable comment.
I, for one, do not his comment tedious at all; I believe it has merit. What's the problem with the ingredients?
Well, in both threads, I explain that it is a matter of curating your diet to be balanced regardless of which portion of the list it comes from, because the entire food list in table 1 is a false dichotomy and utter crap. Of course there is room for icecream--see my comments on the other thread about cream magically becoming ultraprocessed because it rises up to the top of the milk bucket and you skim it. There is also plenty of room for oreos.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »
To what extent? If I eat ice cream once a week, am I automatically less likely to be healthy? If yes, how? Or do I have to eat it daily? Or more than 50% of my calories?
Quit being deliberately tedious and read the rest of the post for the nuance, including the list of ingredients. Also, feel free to cross-reference to my comment on the other thread on ultra-processed food. And then come back with a more intelligent, debatable comment.
What's tedious and unintelligent about asking you to provide context? You go ahead and say that you believe people who eat more processed foods are less likely to be healthy. What amounts are ayou talking about there?
This is turning into a standard "good and bad foods" discussion. If your overall diet is on point in terms of nutrition, what is having "processed food" as part of it going to do to you, how is it doing that and starting from what amounts?
See my comment above about the gist of my post (in a lower paragraph) being that either list can be curated to comprise a healthy or unhealthy diet--I did not say any foods were intrinsically good or bad. Also, here is a cut and paste of my comment on Table 1 once I actually dug into the study:
Based on the other processed food thread, I just started to dig into the actual foods shown in table 1 of this study, and find the way the have delineate the foods into "mutually exclusive" to be utterly baffling. Apparently all pasta falls under "unprocessed" and all breads fall under "ultraprocessed." So, white pasta is presented as being healthier than 100% whole grain bread. This is just stupid. And beer and wine are just "processed" while 100% organic grape juice is "ultraprocessed." Again--stupid. Milk is unprocessed, but if you set your milk bucket aside and the cream rises to the top and you skim it, it magically becomes "processed." If you grab a piece of honycomb out of a beehive and eat it--guess what--magically processed! Roots & tubers are unprocessed but if they become a french fry or "potato product" then they are magically ultraprocessed. What if you fry your unprocessed cassava or bacon or eggs (which, ironically, removes the fat)? So much stupid. It burns!0 -
My child is diabetic and the doctor told us always to avoid processed foods of all types meaning pre-made dinners, cream of wheat, pre-made potatoes, pancake batter,ice cream, pasta is a big one, .. so eat whole foods. Okay foods are chicken, fish, some red meat, yogurt, beans, cheese, whole wheat bread(s) ,brown rice, fresh veggies and fruit etc from my understanding. Processed foods make your blood sugar go thru the roof. I love cream of wheat but it's not as good for you as you think. Yes junk food all highly processed is not good for you so McDonalds burgers are not as good for you as a veggie burger you make yourself. I'm focusing right now on this whole subject so I make my own "power shakes" I do not buy them at Panera bread. I know there are mix fresh berries with ice and non -fat yogurt and chi seeds because I made it myself. So canned tuna is just a fish in a can so probably okay but fresh tuna you cook yourself is still better. I guess if you didn't make it your self , from my understanding you can trust the ingredients 100% to be "natural', "organic" etc . But something that has been "milled" is a no-no.0
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karenlwashburn wrote: »Processed foods make your blood sugar go thru the roof.
Cheese is a processed food, so are frozen vegetables, and smoked salmon. A veggie burger you make yourself might well be, depending on what's in it (and the bun is, no matter what, as jmbmilholland pointed out re the definition currently being used).
Refined carbs (or, really, carbs without fiber) are the issue, typically, for people with blood sugar problems (which not everyone has). A non processed food like a plain potato or even a banana could easily lead to blood sugar spikes for many with issues, whereas a more processed food might not. For example, senecarr pointed to a BB-sponsored "clean" frozen meal. Similarly, I can get some paleo frozen meals (yeah, makes my head hurt too) that often are quite low carb and high in veg and protein and coconut oil or the like -- probably would not make blood sugar spike in many cases, but certainly "ultra processed" under some definitions (pre made meal). I bought a salad for lunch yesterday -- processed, but would it made blood sugar spike? Depends on what's on the salad.
The point is that the labels ("processed" and even "ultra processed") don't tell us what's in the food, so are bad proxies when we are talking about something else (like sugar content or nutrition or percentage of carbs vs. fiber and fat and protein). Does that make sense? I so often feel like people are not communicating.0 -
karenlwashburn wrote: »My child is diabetic and the doctor told us always to avoid processed foods of all types meaning pre-made dinners, cream of wheat, pre-made potatoes, pancake batter,ice cream, pasta is a big one, .. so eat whole foods. Okay foods are chicken, fish, some red meat, yogurt, beans, cheese, whole wheat bread(s) ,brown rice, fresh veggies and fruit etc from my understanding. Processed foods make your blood sugar go thru the roof. I love cream of wheat but it's not as good for you as you think. Yes junk food all highly processed is not good for you so McDonalds burgers are not as good for you as a veggie burger you make yourself. I'm focusing right now on this whole subject so I make my own "power shakes" I do not buy them at Panera bread. I know there are mix fresh berries with ice and non -fat yogurt and chi seeds because I made it myself. So canned tuna is just a fish in a can so probably okay but fresh tuna you cook yourself is still better. I guess if you didn't make it your self , from my understanding you can trust the ingredients 100% to be "natural', "organic" etc . But something that has been "milled" is a no-no.
Your list if OK foods includes processed foods BTW. Meat, yogurt, cheese, bread are all processed.0 -
Technically cooking and butchering are processing so I guess the only unprocessed foods are raw veggies and fruits?0
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singingflutelady wrote: »Technically cooking and butchering are processing so I guess the only unprocessed foods are raw veggies and fruits?
But we all know that is not what is meant in this discussion. Same for frozen vegetables.0 -
The processed grains on @karenlwashburn 's list would have made my blood sugar spike, too. Unless I doctored it with fiber or vinegar. Rice was particularly digestible and created spikes. Unless of course, I had it with lots of veggies, sauce, and other stuff.0
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Having raised my own chickens and milking my goat, I can say I've seen things just as unpleasing, but in a different way.
Calorie for calorie, a 100 grams of canned chicken is the same as a 100 grams of freshly butchered chicken though.
Scientific fact there you have it!
That's doubtful. Canned chicken will likely have preservatives added, most likely sodium.
new to me, do preservatives and salt add caloric value? I like my foods fresh mostly.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Technically cooking and butchering are processing so I guess the only unprocessed foods are raw veggies and fruits?
But we all know that is not what is meant in this discussion. Same for frozen vegetables.
Since just 4 posts above you there's someone who heard bread is not processed and somehow all processed foods make your blood sugar rise, while apparently everyone knows what is NOT meant, no one knows what IS meant.0 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Technically cooking and butchering are processing so I guess the only unprocessed foods are raw veggies and fruits?
In the Tufts study, they are only considered processed if salted (ham or brined veg) and ultraprocessed if "reconstituted meat product" or part of a frozen "plate meal." So chicken and greenbeans are unprocessed if frozen by themselves, but if they are put together and frozen, they suddenly become ultraprocessed.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Technically cooking and butchering are processing so I guess the only unprocessed foods are raw veggies and fruits?
But we all know that is not what is meant in this discussion. Same for frozen vegetables.
Since just 4 posts above you there's someone who heard bread is not processed and somehow all processed foods make your blood sugar rise, while apparently everyone knows what is NOT meant, no one knows what IS meant.
Yes my comment was in response to the "my doctor said to avoid all processed foods" and then she lists processed foods that she eats that she doesn't think are processes like cheese, yogurt and bread0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Technically cooking and butchering are processing so I guess the only unprocessed foods are raw veggies and fruits?
But we all know that is not what is meant in this discussion. Same for frozen vegetables.
Since just 4 posts above you there's someone who heard bread is not processed and somehow all processed foods make your blood sugar rise, while apparently everyone knows what is NOT meant, no one knows what IS meant.
I took that as them explaining what they (or their child's doctor) meant by 'processed foods' since they started with "meaning ..."0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Having raised my own chickens and milking my goat, I can say I've seen things just as unpleasing, but in a different way.
Calorie for calorie, a 100 grams of canned chicken is the same as a 100 grams of freshly butchered chicken though.
Scientific fact there you have it!
That's doubtful. Canned chicken will likely have preservatives added, most likely sodium.
new to me, do preservatives and salt add caloric value? I like my foods fresh mostly.
Do preservatives and salt add caloric value? new to this.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Technically cooking and butchering are processing so I guess the only unprocessed foods are raw veggies and fruits?
But we all know that is not what is meant in this discussion. Same for frozen vegetables.
Since just 4 posts above you there's someone who heard bread is not processed and somehow all processed foods make your blood sugar rise, while apparently everyone knows what is NOT meant, no one knows what IS meant.
I took that as them explaining what they (or their child's doctor) meant by 'processed foods' since they started with "meaning ..."
By that logic, though, yogurt, cheese, and whole wheat bread are considered "whole foods". I have yet to encounter a whole wheat bread tree. Maybe they're tubers?0 -
ClosetBayesian wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Technically cooking and butchering are processing so I guess the only unprocessed foods are raw veggies and fruits?
But we all know that is not what is meant in this discussion. Same for frozen vegetables.
Since just 4 posts above you there's someone who heard bread is not processed and somehow all processed foods make your blood sugar rise, while apparently everyone knows what is NOT meant, no one knows what IS meant.
I took that as them explaining what they (or their child's doctor) meant by 'processed foods' since they started with "meaning ..."
By that logic, though, yogurt, cheese, and whole wheat bread are considered "whole foods". I have yet to encounter a whole wheat bread tree. Maybe they're tubers?
I didn't say it was logical, I said I interpreted it as explanation of the term.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Having raised my own chickens and milking my goat, I can say I've seen things just as unpleasing, but in a different way.
Calorie for calorie, a 100 grams of canned chicken is the same as a 100 grams of freshly butchered chicken though.
Scientific fact there you have it!
That's doubtful. Canned chicken will likely have preservatives added, most likely sodium.
new to me, do preservatives and salt add caloric value? I like my foods fresh mostly.
Do preservatives and salt add caloric value? new to this.
nope.0
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