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Why do people overeat and/or become obese? Is it harder than average for some to lose weight?
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mommarnurse wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I don't really see how this thread won't end up here anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:
In some (or many) cases, people are afflicted with a compulsion/addiction/condition/whatever-term-that-won't-cause-mental-anguish-to-people. I believe that there is both a physical and mental component to this.
The physical is that there is an abnormal reaction to the effects of certain behaviors and or experiences (such as overeating and/or eating highly palatable foods). This reaction manifests in a phenomenal craving. Once the craving is triggered, it cannot be satisfied.
The mental aspect is an obsession with the behavior or experience. They are inexplicably drawn to attempt normal consumption even if they have proven an inability to do so in the past. No matter their level of commitment or the seriousness of their situation (i.e. you'll have to get your leg amputated if you can't get this under control), they will trigger the craving again.
Basically it boils down to this, they can't stop once they've started and they can't stop themselves from starting.
I don't believe this for one second.
Lack of education.
That's fine.
Are you saying I lack education or the people I am talking about lack education. What education is lacking?
I think the majority of people who are overweight/obese lack education in anything food related.
I watched an episode of my 600lb life...the guy gained weight and the doctor was asking why? the patient said "I don't know I should be losing I switched out my white bread for whole wheat"....seriously.
And based on my own experience I knew about calories from being a teenager and having my mother diet all the time...but had no clue on how to lose weight and maintain...
I could lose like a demon...but gain it back.
diet books, diet websites, diet pills, diet programs aka WW etc...all teach people how to lose but not how to maintain...
and as adults if we weren't taught about nutrition and calories how do we teach our kids??????
So, you're basically saying people with weight problems do not know lack education on how to maintain?
No what I am saying is most people have no idea how calories work.
I'm not sure I believe this is true of most. It doesn't seem to mesh with the number of posts asking "why can't I stop overeating" or "how do I stop binge eating" or "how do I break my addiction to sugar"
To me these sound more like issues with control of cravings than a lack of knowledge that too many calories are being consumed.
This is a very small sample tho...I do firmly believe based on my own life most don't understand calories.
If they did there wouldn't be statements of CICO doesn't work for everyone and there wouldn't be this large diet industry preying on people...
Sure they get the concept of I need to eat fewer calories but when it comes down to it they have no idea what that truly means...
But I feel like this is going to get into "food addiction" area and I am not into that debate.
What does it truly mean if not; determining the calories of current intake and eating less than that; or determining caloric output and eating less than that?
to lose weight it truly means taking in less calories than you burn
to maintain weight it truly means that you are eating the same as what you are burning.
If your current intake is making you gain 1lb a week...eating 50 calories less a day won't work...but you know that
Ok, I'm still trying to fully understand what you meant by "Sure they get the concept of I need to eat fewer calories but when it comes down to it they have no idea what that truly means...". So for the sake of clarification, you are saying that they miscalculate their caloric needs or the number of calories they should cut from their diet? In other words, you are saying they know they need to eat fewer calories, but don't know how much fewer?
sort of...
People know that to lose weight they need to eat (for arguments sake) 1200 calories and that means to them 1lb a week. *I know this as a friend is on MFP and this is her life....
They log 1200 calories and really believe they ate 1200 calories.
They exercise and log 500 calories for 45mins of treadmill walking at 3.5 mph because that's what the treadmill says.
In reality they are eating 1600 a day and burning maybe 300..(I am being generous)
They lose 1/2 a week or maybe none because they really ate 1800 for a few days.
They ask "why am I not losing weight"...
They really believe that they are eating 1200 calories and exercising that much and feel they are one of those "that can't lose weight" or "it's the kinds of calories" or "it's because I ate after 7pm" or "because I didn't drink my hot lemon water this morning to rev my metabolism"
No concept of what 1200 calories looks like or how hard it is to exercise off 500 calories walking...
See for me I can tell you what 30gram of marble cheddar looks like and that fact it has 120 calories...or how much 180 grams of mix frozen tropical fruit looks like...I got cha...150 grams of chicken I know but if I am not familiar with the food I would need my food scale to know the weight to get the calories...
Ok, but this is somewhat different than what the thread seemed to be about....I suspect they're trying to say that, for them, either Calories In is harder to limit or that Calories Out is harder to achieve than for the average person...
...Why are they eating so much? What drives the desire and need to consume extra calories than needed?...
If you have been able to build a skill set which allows you to be able to eyeball what 30g of marble cheddar looks like, what makes you think others who have struggled for years haven't been able to develop the same skills? Surely many of them have and still struggle nonetheless. What drives overeating in people who know better? I'm talking about people who:
- know energy balance (CICO)
- Know a pound of fat is about 3500 calories
- know that exercise estimations are inaccurate
- know that measuring by volume is not always precise
- weigh everything that they eat
- have sustainable food plans
- know that forbidding foods could lead to greater temptation
- know that attempting to moderate could lead to greater temptation
- know that micro nutrients are important for body composition
- know that protein intake is recommended at .8-1g per pound of lean body mass
- know that certain food types are more satisfying for different people
- know that certain diets work because they make it easier for some to manipulate energy balance
- you get my point...
There are many who know all of this yet fail regardless. Why?
This interests me too and I've seen some comments on other threads that tell me there are a few people here who might say that this describes them. I would love to hear from them.
A friend of mine has been obese probably her entire life. As far as I can tell, she seems to know all of the above yet still struggles with her weight. It's something that I can never ask her about because it's none of my business and I would never want to risk hurting her feelings, but I know she's not the only one in her shoes and I hope someone can shed some light on what it might be like for her.
Because they aren't willing to change. I know this isn't the best analogy - but surely crack addicts know crack is bad? Surely that guy with diabetes who's repeatedly admitted to the hospital knows he shouldn't be chugging soda and what not? Knowledge isn't the first step in change, acknowledgement is. You can look in the mirror and say "hey, I'm fat" but you're not acknowledging that your own choices and lifestyle are the reason. And even if you do, you're not necessarily willing to step out of your comfort zone and make a change. That requires a very high , sustained level of emotional energy. You're settling for your lifestyle. Deep down, you don't believe that you deserve better.
People have had similar outlooks on alcoholics for decades (or mellenia), but now it is widely accepted to not be so cut and dry.
Yeah, no, that's something completely different in my opinion. There is a very strong physical dependence there (with alcohol)0 -
lexbubbles wrote: »your post is irrelevant to the op and this isn't a discussion on individuals but those who overeat and those who say it's harder for them to lose that normal people.I think we've lost sight of the original topic of discussion. It was not about the population in general, but about those individuals who say they have a harder time than most to lose weight and what drives them to eat even knowing the harm it's doing to them.
...
Because when someone says "Hi, I maintain on less than 2k" and your immediate response is ARE YOU LOGGING ARE YOU TINY YOU MUST BE SEDENTARY that doesn't imply "I would like clarification" that implies disbelief. If you actually believed Deb when she said she maintained <2k you wouldn't have asked for clarification in the first place. I could question your apparent maintenance because it doesn't line up with my personal experience, but I didn't. Because I believe you, on account of human variance being... varied.I asked a few clarifying questions so what. You seem angry that I went that routeAnd what evidence did you provide your bmr so...mine is 50 above that...proves nothing neither does an arbitrary calculation of 1.3 against it a study of 1 is not gospel.
But your study of 1 is. (Also multiple people on this thread have now pointed out that they maintain on sub-2,000. The only thing I did was back it up with actual numbers as a "hey, look, totally possible to maintain on this number without being a tiny sedentary person")
I mean I also have the evidence of "using that number I am losing exactly the amount of weight I should be losing with the deficit I have against said number" as I'm sure the other low maintainers do also (except that's not my BMR. Mine's below that as I pointed out last time I posted in this thread. I was providing stats for a person my height/age/weight without a metabolic issue)
This just in though: BMR and TDEE calculations prove nothing and are useless.As well you haven't responded once in the 16 pages...seems odd you jump in to post about something that is irrelevant to the OP...
I mean, I have. But I've just been reading for a while because I only post when I have something to contribute to the conversation as it currently stands. The conversation as it stood was about maintenance cals.
If you think maintenance cals are irrelevant to the OP about why certain individuals may have a harder time (or believe they do) than other people then... er...
Whatever, I'm done here.
Those two top statements say the same thing...this is not about individual in this topic posting about themselves per say it's about those who say they have a harder time losing then others...
To your 2nd point...I did ask questions...note the question marks at the end of the sentences to indicate I was asking if she was smaller and/or sedentary etc...and me saying "I have to ask...."
....
and I have to ask if you gain on 2k a day are you totally sedentary? exceptionally short (under 5ft tall) and a very tiny woman?
and I have to ask if you use a food scale and are you sure you only eat 1200 and gain on 2k...
@DebSozo and @lexbubbles es Maintenance calories have nothing to do with why people over eat...or are obese or find it harder to lose weight lack of understanding of what maintenance calories are and how to achieve maintenance maybe but I said that on page 1...lack of education not know how to lose but mostly not knowing how to maintain. Not understand CICO or even what calories/servings mean.
but again not going to further this debate with non on topic debates with how people interpret text with prejudice due to their own issues.
Hunh? You missed the point which is that if a person believes that their maintenance level is higher than it is that the pounds will gradually add up. The overeating is not on purpose. It happens under the radar.
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mommarnurse wrote: »mommarnurse wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I don't really see how this thread won't end up here anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:
In some (or many) cases, people are afflicted with a compulsion/addiction/condition/whatever-term-that-won't-cause-mental-anguish-to-people. I believe that there is both a physical and mental component to this.
The physical is that there is an abnormal reaction to the effects of certain behaviors and or experiences (such as overeating and/or eating highly palatable foods). This reaction manifests in a phenomenal craving. Once the craving is triggered, it cannot be satisfied.
The mental aspect is an obsession with the behavior or experience. They are inexplicably drawn to attempt normal consumption even if they have proven an inability to do so in the past. No matter their level of commitment or the seriousness of their situation (i.e. you'll have to get your leg amputated if you can't get this under control), they will trigger the craving again.
Basically it boils down to this, they can't stop once they've started and they can't stop themselves from starting.
I don't believe this for one second.
Lack of education.
That's fine.
Are you saying I lack education or the people I am talking about lack education. What education is lacking?
I think the majority of people who are overweight/obese lack education in anything food related.
I watched an episode of my 600lb life...the guy gained weight and the doctor was asking why? the patient said "I don't know I should be losing I switched out my white bread for whole wheat"....seriously.
And based on my own experience I knew about calories from being a teenager and having my mother diet all the time...but had no clue on how to lose weight and maintain...
I could lose like a demon...but gain it back.
diet books, diet websites, diet pills, diet programs aka WW etc...all teach people how to lose but not how to maintain...
and as adults if we weren't taught about nutrition and calories how do we teach our kids??????
So, you're basically saying people with weight problems do not know lack education on how to maintain?
No what I am saying is most people have no idea how calories work.
I'm not sure I believe this is true of most. It doesn't seem to mesh with the number of posts asking "why can't I stop overeating" or "how do I stop binge eating" or "how do I break my addiction to sugar"
To me these sound more like issues with control of cravings than a lack of knowledge that too many calories are being consumed.
This is a very small sample tho...I do firmly believe based on my own life most don't understand calories.
If they did there wouldn't be statements of CICO doesn't work for everyone and there wouldn't be this large diet industry preying on people...
Sure they get the concept of I need to eat fewer calories but when it comes down to it they have no idea what that truly means...
But I feel like this is going to get into "food addiction" area and I am not into that debate.
What does it truly mean if not; determining the calories of current intake and eating less than that; or determining caloric output and eating less than that?
to lose weight it truly means taking in less calories than you burn
to maintain weight it truly means that you are eating the same as what you are burning.
If your current intake is making you gain 1lb a week...eating 50 calories less a day won't work...but you know that
Ok, I'm still trying to fully understand what you meant by "Sure they get the concept of I need to eat fewer calories but when it comes down to it they have no idea what that truly means...". So for the sake of clarification, you are saying that they miscalculate their caloric needs or the number of calories they should cut from their diet? In other words, you are saying they know they need to eat fewer calories, but don't know how much fewer?
sort of...
People know that to lose weight they need to eat (for arguments sake) 1200 calories and that means to them 1lb a week. *I know this as a friend is on MFP and this is her life....
They log 1200 calories and really believe they ate 1200 calories.
They exercise and log 500 calories for 45mins of treadmill walking at 3.5 mph because that's what the treadmill says.
In reality they are eating 1600 a day and burning maybe 300..(I am being generous)
They lose 1/2 a week or maybe none because they really ate 1800 for a few days.
They ask "why am I not losing weight"...
They really believe that they are eating 1200 calories and exercising that much and feel they are one of those "that can't lose weight" or "it's the kinds of calories" or "it's because I ate after 7pm" or "because I didn't drink my hot lemon water this morning to rev my metabolism"
No concept of what 1200 calories looks like or how hard it is to exercise off 500 calories walking...
See for me I can tell you what 30gram of marble cheddar looks like and that fact it has 120 calories...or how much 180 grams of mix frozen tropical fruit looks like...I got cha...150 grams of chicken I know but if I am not familiar with the food I would need my food scale to know the weight to get the calories...
Ok, but this is somewhat different than what the thread seemed to be about....I suspect they're trying to say that, for them, either Calories In is harder to limit or that Calories Out is harder to achieve than for the average person...
...Why are they eating so much? What drives the desire and need to consume extra calories than needed?...
If you have been able to build a skill set which allows you to be able to eyeball what 30g of marble cheddar looks like, what makes you think others who have struggled for years haven't been able to develop the same skills? Surely many of them have and still struggle nonetheless. What drives overeating in people who know better? I'm talking about people who:
- know energy balance (CICO)
- Know a pound of fat is about 3500 calories
- know that exercise estimations are inaccurate
- know that measuring by volume is not always precise
- weigh everything that they eat
- have sustainable food plans
- know that forbidding foods could lead to greater temptation
- know that attempting to moderate could lead to greater temptation
- know that micro nutrients are important for body composition
- know that protein intake is recommended at .8-1g per pound of lean body mass
- know that certain food types are more satisfying for different people
- know that certain diets work because they make it easier for some to manipulate energy balance
- you get my point...
There are many who know all of this yet fail regardless. Why?
This interests me too and I've seen some comments on other threads that tell me there are a few people here who might say that this describes them. I would love to hear from them.
A friend of mine has been obese probably her entire life. As far as I can tell, she seems to know all of the above yet still struggles with her weight. It's something that I can never ask her about because it's none of my business and I would never want to risk hurting her feelings, but I know she's not the only one in her shoes and I hope someone can shed some light on what it might be like for her.
Because they aren't willing to change. I know this isn't the best analogy - but surely crack addicts know crack is bad? Surely that guy with diabetes who's repeatedly admitted to the hospital knows he shouldn't be chugging soda and what not? Knowledge isn't the first step in change, acknowledgement is. You can look in the mirror and say "hey, I'm fat" but you're not acknowledging that your own choices and lifestyle are the reason. And even if you do, you're not necessarily willing to step out of your comfort zone and make a change. That requires a very high , sustained level of emotional energy. You're settling for your lifestyle. Deep down, you don't believe that you deserve better.
People have had similar outlooks on alcoholics for decades (or mellenia), but now it is widely accepted to not be so cut and dry.
Yeah, no, that's something completely different in my opinion. There is a very strong physical dependence there (with alcohol)
Word.0 -
lexbubbles wrote: »your post is irrelevant to the op and this isn't a discussion on individuals but those who overeat and those who say it's harder for them to lose that normal people.I think we've lost sight of the original topic of discussion. It was not about the population in general, but about those individuals who say they have a harder time than most to lose weight and what drives them to eat even knowing the harm it's doing to them.
...
Because when someone says "Hi, I maintain on less than 2k" and your immediate response is ARE YOU LOGGING ARE YOU TINY YOU MUST BE SEDENTARY that doesn't imply "I would like clarification" that implies disbelief. If you actually believed Deb when she said she maintained <2k you wouldn't have asked for clarification in the first place. I could question your apparent maintenance because it doesn't line up with my personal experience, but I didn't. Because I believe you, on account of human variance being... varied.I asked a few clarifying questions so what. You seem angry that I went that routeAnd what evidence did you provide your bmr so...mine is 50 above that...proves nothing neither does an arbitrary calculation of 1.3 against it a study of 1 is not gospel.
But your study of 1 is. (Also multiple people on this thread have now pointed out that they maintain on sub-2,000. The only thing I did was back it up with actual numbers as a "hey, look, totally possible to maintain on this number without being a tiny sedentary person")
I mean I also have the evidence of "using that number I am losing exactly the amount of weight I should be losing with the deficit I have against said number" as I'm sure the other low maintainers do also (except that's not my BMR. Mine's below that as I pointed out last time I posted in this thread. I was providing stats for a person my height/age/weight without a metabolic issue)
This just in though: BMR and TDEE calculations prove nothing and are useless.As well you haven't responded once in the 16 pages...seems odd you jump in to post about something that is irrelevant to the OP...
I mean, I have. But I've just been reading for a while because I only post when I have something to contribute to the conversation as it currently stands. The conversation as it stood was about maintenance cals.
If you think maintenance cals are irrelevant to the OP about why certain individuals may have a harder time (or believe they do) than other people then... er...
Whatever, I'm done here.
Those two top statements say the same thing...this is not about individual in this topic posting about themselves per say it's about those who say they have a harder time losing then others...
To your 2nd point...I did ask questions...note the question marks at the end of the sentences to indicate I was asking if she was smaller and/or sedentary etc...and me saying "I have to ask...."
....
and I have to ask if you gain on 2k a day are you totally sedentary? exceptionally short (under 5ft tall) and a very tiny woman?
and I have to ask if you use a food scale and are you sure you only eat 1200 and gain on 2k...
@DebSozo and @lexbubbles es Maintenance calories have nothing to do with why people over eat...or are obese or find it harder to lose weight lack of understanding of what maintenance calories are and how to achieve maintenance maybe but I said that on page 1...lack of education not know how to lose but mostly not knowing how to maintain. Not understand CICO or even what calories/servings mean.
but again not going to further this debate with non on topic debates with how people interpret text with prejudice due to their own issues.
Hunh? You missed the point which is that if a person believes that their maintenance level is higher than it is that the pounds will gradually add up. The overeating is not on purpose. It happens under the radar.
no I didn't...how can you think your maintenance is higher than it is if you understand maintenance? How can someone who knows what maintenance is think it's higher? If they eat over it they gain weight that's a sure sign they are eating above maintenance....
There is a very simple calculation for it...total calories consumed+(lbs lost x 3500)/#days and if you aren't losing but staying the same or gaining you adjust the calculation...hence my statement of lack of knowledge and education...
I know my maintenance within 50-100 calories (nothing is perfect) now that I am educated...4 years ago...had no clue...and guess what I was fat...as soon as I understood what it was and how to calculate it the weight fell off...and I have maintained wonderfully.-1 -
lexbubbles wrote: »your post is irrelevant to the op and this isn't a discussion on individuals but those who overeat and those who say it's harder for them to lose that normal people.I think we've lost sight of the original topic of discussion. It was not about the population in general, but about those individuals who say they have a harder time than most to lose weight and what drives them to eat even knowing the harm it's doing to them.
...
Because when someone says "Hi, I maintain on less than 2k" and your immediate response is ARE YOU LOGGING ARE YOU TINY YOU MUST BE SEDENTARY that doesn't imply "I would like clarification" that implies disbelief. If you actually believed Deb when she said she maintained <2k you wouldn't have asked for clarification in the first place. I could question your apparent maintenance because it doesn't line up with my personal experience, but I didn't. Because I believe you, on account of human variance being... varied.I asked a few clarifying questions so what. You seem angry that I went that routeAnd what evidence did you provide your bmr so...mine is 50 above that...proves nothing neither does an arbitrary calculation of 1.3 against it a study of 1 is not gospel.
But your study of 1 is. (Also multiple people on this thread have now pointed out that they maintain on sub-2,000. The only thing I did was back it up with actual numbers as a "hey, look, totally possible to maintain on this number without being a tiny sedentary person")
I mean I also have the evidence of "using that number I am losing exactly the amount of weight I should be losing with the deficit I have against said number" as I'm sure the other low maintainers do also (except that's not my BMR. Mine's below that as I pointed out last time I posted in this thread. I was providing stats for a person my height/age/weight without a metabolic issue)
This just in though: BMR and TDEE calculations prove nothing and are useless.As well you haven't responded once in the 16 pages...seems odd you jump in to post about something that is irrelevant to the OP...
I mean, I have. But I've just been reading for a while because I only post when I have something to contribute to the conversation as it currently stands. The conversation as it stood was about maintenance cals.
If you think maintenance cals are irrelevant to the OP about why certain individuals may have a harder time (or believe they do) than other people then... er...
Whatever, I'm done here.
Those two top statements say the same thing...this is not about individual in this topic posting about themselves per say it's about those who say they have a harder time losing then others...
To your 2nd point...I did ask questions...note the question marks at the end of the sentences to indicate I was asking if she was smaller and/or sedentary etc...and me saying "I have to ask...."
....
and I have to ask if you gain on 2k a day are you totally sedentary? exceptionally short (under 5ft tall) and a very tiny woman?
and I have to ask if you use a food scale and are you sure you only eat 1200 and gain on 2k...
@DebSozo and @lexbubbles es Maintenance calories have nothing to do with why people over eat...or are obese or find it harder to lose weight lack of understanding of what maintenance calories are and how to achieve maintenance maybe but I said that on page 1...lack of education not know how to lose but mostly not knowing how to maintain. Not understand CICO or even what calories/servings mean.
but again not going to further this debate with non on topic debates with how people interpret text with prejudice due to their own issues.
Hunh? You missed the point which is that if a person believes that their maintenance level is higher than it is that the pounds will gradually add up. The overeating is not on purpose. It happens under the radar.
no I didn't...how can you think your maintenance is higher than it is if you understand maintenance? How can someone who knows what maintenance is think it's higher? If they eat over it they gain weight that's a sure sign they are eating above maintenance....
There is a very simple calculation for it...total calories consumed+(lbs lost x 3500)/#days and if you aren't losing but staying the same or gaining you adjust the calculation...hence my statement of lack of knowledge and education...
I know my maintenance within 50-100 calories (nothing is perfect) now that I am educated...4 years ago...had no clue...and guess what I was fat...as soon as I understood what it was and how to calculate it the weight fell off...and I have maintained wonderfully.
Nice!0 -
lexbubbles wrote: »your post is irrelevant to the op and this isn't a discussion on individuals but those who overeat and those who say it's harder for them to lose that normal people.I think we've lost sight of the original topic of discussion. It was not about the population in general, but about those individuals who say they have a harder time than most to lose weight and what drives them to eat even knowing the harm it's doing to them.
...
Because when someone says "Hi, I maintain on less than 2k" and your immediate response is ARE YOU LOGGING ARE YOU TINY YOU MUST BE SEDENTARY that doesn't imply "I would like clarification" that implies disbelief. If you actually believed Deb when she said she maintained <2k you wouldn't have asked for clarification in the first place. I could question your apparent maintenance because it doesn't line up with my personal experience, but I didn't. Because I believe you, on account of human variance being... varied.I asked a few clarifying questions so what. You seem angry that I went that routeAnd what evidence did you provide your bmr so...mine is 50 above that...proves nothing neither does an arbitrary calculation of 1.3 against it a study of 1 is not gospel.
But your study of 1 is. (Also multiple people on this thread have now pointed out that they maintain on sub-2,000. The only thing I did was back it up with actual numbers as a "hey, look, totally possible to maintain on this number without being a tiny sedentary person")
I mean I also have the evidence of "using that number I am losing exactly the amount of weight I should be losing with the deficit I have against said number" as I'm sure the other low maintainers do also (except that's not my BMR. Mine's below that as I pointed out last time I posted in this thread. I was providing stats for a person my height/age/weight without a metabolic issue)
This just in though: BMR and TDEE calculations prove nothing and are useless.As well you haven't responded once in the 16 pages...seems odd you jump in to post about something that is irrelevant to the OP...
I mean, I have. But I've just been reading for a while because I only post when I have something to contribute to the conversation as it currently stands. The conversation as it stood was about maintenance cals.
If you think maintenance cals are irrelevant to the OP about why certain individuals may have a harder time (or believe they do) than other people then... er...
Whatever, I'm done here.
Those two top statements say the same thing...this is not about individual in this topic posting about themselves per say it's about those who say they have a harder time losing then others...
To your 2nd point...I did ask questions...note the question marks at the end of the sentences to indicate I was asking if she was smaller and/or sedentary etc...and me saying "I have to ask...."
....
and I have to ask if you gain on 2k a day are you totally sedentary? exceptionally short (under 5ft tall) and a very tiny woman?
and I have to ask if you use a food scale and are you sure you only eat 1200 and gain on 2k...
@DebSozo and @lexbubbles es Maintenance calories have nothing to do with why people over eat...or are obese or find it harder to lose weight lack of understanding of what maintenance calories are and how to achieve maintenance maybe but I said that on page 1...lack of education not know how to lose but mostly not knowing how to maintain. Not understand CICO or even what calories/servings mean.
but again not going to further this debate with non on topic debates with how people interpret text with prejudice due to their own issues.
Hunh? You missed the point which is that if a person believes that their maintenance level is higher than it is that the pounds will gradually add up. The overeating is not on purpose. It happens under the radar.
no I didn't...how can you think your maintenance is higher than it is if you understand maintenance? How can someone who knows what maintenance is think it's higher? If they eat over it they gain weight that's a sure sign they are eating above maintenance....
There is a very simple calculation for it...total calories consumed+(lbs lost x 3500)/#days and if you aren't losing but staying the same or gaining you adjust the calculation...hence my statement of lack of knowledge and education...
I know my maintenance within 50-100 calories (nothing is perfect) now that I am educated...4 years ago...had no clue...and guess what I was fat...as soon as I understood what it was and how to calculate it the weight fell off...and I have maintained wonderfully.
Do I understand your posts correctly that you believe most people think they are gaining weight without overeating? That they literally have no clue that they could lose weight if they ate less?2 -
I went by standard calculations for maintenance. Mine is lower than what they told me. I did not realize that that and gained when eating at supposed TDEE and maintained at the level where I "should" have been losing.0
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I can relate to this. I am going to Hershey Park next weekend and my 14 year old son wants to do the water park. I put on a bikini and have been going outside to get a little bit of a base tan beforehand so that I don't burn on Saturday. The current physique I have will not work for me in the public in a bikini, so I will settle for a one piece that day.
If all of my peers were thin and able to get into one I would be a bit more concerned. But I know most of the moms at Hershey Park will be my size or larger. Conversely, when I was much thinner most of my friends were my size or smaller so I worked harder to stay slim. Peer pressure has something to do with it for sure.
I do think the bolded can play a BIG part in people's lives. I've rationalized it myself over the years, ya I've gained some pounds but look at old Bob over there, I'm not nearly as big as him. It's a funny phenomenon. I remember comparing myself to inshape dudes, then a bit chubby, then fat, then obese. Like a sliding scale. Feeling like you are smaller than the person you are comparing yourself too to feel ok with yourself is a mental trick. When I stopped to compare myself to a guy older than me but in fantastic shape it stripped away all the pretense and got me to a place where I wanted to make some life style changes.3 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
I really don't understand becoming very overweight or obese. I don't know what makes some nip it in the bud before it gets really out of control while others take to a level that to me would seem to take the pleasure out of it.
BTW, I do need to lose a few pounds, but on all the weight ranges, I'm at the low end of normal. But I am at an historically high weight, so it is a concern. I wish I were around super-thin people my age all the time because frankly, the peer-pressure would help. Unfortunately, I'm often around older people who have given up and are obese.
Personally, I'm really, really glad I no longer live in a society where everyone around me is super-thin. I developed anorexia while living in Asia because at a size 6 I was much larger than my Asian friends. I felt like I needed to become rail-thin to be attractive. I eventually recovered.
I developed bulimia as an adult after falling into a group where everyone was thinner and fitter than me. I think it's very telling of our food culture that while the prevalence of anorexia has increased among teens, instances of bulimia tripled between 1988 and 1993 and is more common than anorexia in adults. We feel a need to keep eating (compulsion around such an abundance of food? social pressure? both were true in my case), but we feel a contrasting pressure to be slim.
The point as it relates to this thread: if someone as desperate to be skinny as I was struggled with overeating and starting relying on purging, what are the same factors of food abundance and social events set up around food like for someone without an eating disorder? If they're not making efforts, healthy or not, to offset their calorie intake, they end up overweight or obese.
I do recognize that binge/purge cycles (or straight binging) also happen because of emotional reasons... Which is also telling of how we've grown to treat food. Food is a comfort. Food is a crutch. Food is a friend when the rest of the world sucks. Food is a way to shut out everything else while we're busy eating.
(I realize I'm potentially throwing out a grenade of a post. If someone wants to discuss the nuances of eating disorders, I'd be happy to do so in a separate thread. This is meant to direct attention to how our environments and attitudes toward food drive compulsions to overeat, even in those who don't really want to.)1 -
BillMcKay1 wrote: »I can relate to this. I am going to Hershey Park next weekend and my 14 year old son wants to do the water park. I put on a bikini and have been going outside to get a little bit of a base tan beforehand so that I don't burn on Saturday. The current physique I have will not work for me in the public in a bikini, so I will settle for a one piece that day.
If all of my peers were thin and able to get into one I would be a bit more concerned. But I know most of the moms at Hershey Park will be my size or larger. Conversely, when I was much thinner most of my friends were my size or smaller so I worked harder to stay slim. Peer pressure has something to do with it for sure.
I do think the bolded can play a BIG part in people's lives. I've rationalized it myself over the years, ya I've gained some pounds but look at old Bob over there, I'm not nearly as big as him. It's a funny phenomenon. I remember comparing myself to inshape dudes, then a bit chubby, then fat, then obese. Like a sliding scale. Feeling like you are smaller than the person you are comparing yourself too to feel ok with yourself is a mental trick. When I stopped to compare myself to a guy older than me but in fantastic shape it stripped away all the pretense and got me to a place where I wanted to make some life style changes.
Exactly. As the "norm" gets larger and larger we don't look so bad. Lol. (I shouldn't joke about it.) It is very difficult for me to lose weight. But being around other people in a similar predicament makes it seem culturally acceptable.3 -
Some of us have oral fixations. I know I started buying gum because I had a urge to chew on things even if I wasn't hungry. Weight loss is an uphill battle for me daily because I'll want to gnaw on something even if I am not hungry. Also, salty foods or food right before bed can cause problems in regard to weight loss.0
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Personally, I eat when I'm bored. I also enjoy food, I LOVE carbs and sugar, and I grew up on a lot of food from boxes and cans. So I didn't have great eating habits as a kid but I was active and my metabolism was chugging right along until I hit about 25, and then I started putting on a few pounds. Around that time I also became a stay-at-home-mom and my lifestyle became quite sedentary - wasn't taking self defense classes or going on all day bike rides anymore. And furthermore, there was about a year where I was having some emotional struggles and that caused me to eat a metric ton of chocolate, which didn't help things.
As for losing weight, I've had great success cutting way back on grains and sugar, increasing proteins and veggies, and simply not eating too much. So that is what works for my body, but I don't want to compare myself to another, because we all have our struggles and pitfalls, and what works for me may not work for someone else. There are too many variables.0 -
BillMcKay1 wrote: »I can relate to this. I am going to Hershey Park next weekend and my 14 year old son wants to do the water park. I put on a bikini and have been going outside to get a little bit of a base tan beforehand so that I don't burn on Saturday. The current physique I have will not work for me in the public in a bikini, so I will settle for a one piece that day.
If all of my peers were thin and able to get into one I would be a bit more concerned. But I know most of the moms at Hershey Park will be my size or larger. Conversely, when I was much thinner most of my friends were my size or smaller so I worked harder to stay slim. Peer pressure has something to do with it for sure.
I do think the bolded can play a BIG part in people's lives. I've rationalized it myself over the years, ya I've gained some pounds but look at old Bob over there, I'm not nearly as big as him. It's a funny phenomenon. I remember comparing myself to inshape dudes, then a bit chubby, then fat, then obese. Like a sliding scale. Feeling like you are smaller than the person you are comparing yourself too to feel ok with yourself is a mental trick. When I stopped to compare myself to a guy older than me but in fantastic shape it stripped away all the pretense and got me to a place where I wanted to make some life style changes.
Exactly. As the "norm" gets larger and larger we don't look so bad. Lol.
It also explains a bit of push back people sometimes (often) get from spouses,friends and family when trying make positive changes. By changing you are forcing them to really see themselves and what they are doing. My sister and brother in law after about 3 years of positive changes to their fitness and health went and trained for and competed in a physique competition. My Brother in Law at 46 (2.5 years older than me) just killed it. Dude was ripped. Won 1st place is 2 categories in his first comp. My sister also 46, who 6 years ago was 230lbs or more at 5'5 had a visible six pack.
I was admittedly not nearly as supportive as I could have been( understatement of the year). It took sometime for me to move past the uneasiness and misplaced anger their changes brought up in me, to a place where I am highly motivated by what they accomplished.8 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lexbubbles wrote: »your post is irrelevant to the op and this isn't a discussion on individuals but those who overeat and those who say it's harder for them to lose that normal people.I think we've lost sight of the original topic of discussion. It was not about the population in general, but about those individuals who say they have a harder time than most to lose weight and what drives them to eat even knowing the harm it's doing to them.
...
Because when someone says "Hi, I maintain on less than 2k" and your immediate response is ARE YOU LOGGING ARE YOU TINY YOU MUST BE SEDENTARY that doesn't imply "I would like clarification" that implies disbelief. If you actually believed Deb when she said she maintained <2k you wouldn't have asked for clarification in the first place. I could question your apparent maintenance because it doesn't line up with my personal experience, but I didn't. Because I believe you, on account of human variance being... varied.I asked a few clarifying questions so what. You seem angry that I went that routeAnd what evidence did you provide your bmr so...mine is 50 above that...proves nothing neither does an arbitrary calculation of 1.3 against it a study of 1 is not gospel.
But your study of 1 is. (Also multiple people on this thread have now pointed out that they maintain on sub-2,000. The only thing I did was back it up with actual numbers as a "hey, look, totally possible to maintain on this number without being a tiny sedentary person")
I mean I also have the evidence of "using that number I am losing exactly the amount of weight I should be losing with the deficit I have against said number" as I'm sure the other low maintainers do also (except that's not my BMR. Mine's below that as I pointed out last time I posted in this thread. I was providing stats for a person my height/age/weight without a metabolic issue)
This just in though: BMR and TDEE calculations prove nothing and are useless.As well you haven't responded once in the 16 pages...seems odd you jump in to post about something that is irrelevant to the OP...
I mean, I have. But I've just been reading for a while because I only post when I have something to contribute to the conversation as it currently stands. The conversation as it stood was about maintenance cals.
If you think maintenance cals are irrelevant to the OP about why certain individuals may have a harder time (or believe they do) than other people then... er...
Whatever, I'm done here.
Those two top statements say the same thing...this is not about individual in this topic posting about themselves per say it's about those who say they have a harder time losing then others...
To your 2nd point...I did ask questions...note the question marks at the end of the sentences to indicate I was asking if she was smaller and/or sedentary etc...and me saying "I have to ask...."
....
and I have to ask if you gain on 2k a day are you totally sedentary? exceptionally short (under 5ft tall) and a very tiny woman?
and I have to ask if you use a food scale and are you sure you only eat 1200 and gain on 2k...
@DebSozo and @lexbubbles es Maintenance calories have nothing to do with why people over eat...or are obese or find it harder to lose weight lack of understanding of what maintenance calories are and how to achieve maintenance maybe but I said that on page 1...lack of education not know how to lose but mostly not knowing how to maintain. Not understand CICO or even what calories/servings mean.
but again not going to further this debate with non on topic debates with how people interpret text with prejudice due to their own issues.
Hunh? You missed the point which is that if a person believes that their maintenance level is higher than it is that the pounds will gradually add up. The overeating is not on purpose. It happens under the radar.
no I didn't...how can you think your maintenance is higher than it is if you understand maintenance? How can someone who knows what maintenance is think it's higher? If they eat over it they gain weight that's a sure sign they are eating above maintenance....
There is a very simple calculation for it...total calories consumed+(lbs lost x 3500)/#days and if you aren't losing but staying the same or gaining you adjust the calculation...hence my statement of lack of knowledge and education...
I know my maintenance within 50-100 calories (nothing is perfect) now that I am educated...4 years ago...had no clue...and guess what I was fat...as soon as I understood what it was and how to calculate it the weight fell off...and I have maintained wonderfully.
Do I understand your posts correctly that you believe most people think they are gaining weight without overeating? That they literally have no clue that they could lose weight if they ate less?
no not at all...
They have no clue how much they can eat to lose/maintain or how many calories are in what they are eating or what a serving size is even tho it's on the package...or what an appropriate serving size is...and if they know that they don't really know how to get an accurate count of calories.
You see it here all the time...I am eating 1200 calories and not losing help...when in fact they are eating about 2000 but because they can't judge portion size are not in a deficit.
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BillMcKay1 wrote: »I can relate to this. I am going to Hershey Park next weekend and my 14 year old son wants to do the water park. I put on a bikini and have been going outside to get a little bit of a base tan beforehand so that I don't burn on Saturday. The current physique I have will not work for me in the public in a bikini, so I will settle for a one piece that day.
If all of my peers were thin and able to get into one I would be a bit more concerned. But I know most of the moms at Hershey Park will be my size or larger. Conversely, when I was much thinner most of my friends were my size or smaller so I worked harder to stay slim. Peer pressure has something to do with it for sure.
I do think the bolded can play a BIG part in people's lives. I've rationalized it myself over the years, ya I've gained some pounds but look at old Bob over there, I'm not nearly as big as him. It's a funny phenomenon. I remember comparing myself to inshape dudes, then a bit chubby, then fat, then obese. Like a sliding scale. Feeling like you are smaller than the person you are comparing yourself too to feel ok with yourself is a mental trick. When I stopped to compare myself to a guy older than me but in fantastic shape it stripped away all the pretense and got me to a place where I wanted to make some life style changes.
I am currently the same weight I was at in college 15 years ago, but I feel much thinner right now. The difference now is where I lie on the weight distribution curve. It's most decidedly moved up in that time.1 -
From my personal experience, some over eating as I am sure its been mentioned within this growing thread. Is the idea that food is good/bad or clean/dirty. Overtime this leads to an unhealthy relationship with food as, eating clean is super restrictive. Most people will start with cheat meals, which lead to cheat days, which are really disused as binges. Where these people eat all the "dirty" foods they deny all week long or for some extended duration.
Over the course of time, things begin to compound and grow more severe. Often turning into a cycle like...restrict, restrict, restrict, binge, punish and repeat. Often leading to metabolic damage from the yo-yo, depression, and so on.
Its a nasty cycle and takes serious dedication to stop it.
2 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lexbubbles wrote: »your post is irrelevant to the op and this isn't a discussion on individuals but those who overeat and those who say it's harder for them to lose that normal people.I think we've lost sight of the original topic of discussion. It was not about the population in general, but about those individuals who say they have a harder time than most to lose weight and what drives them to eat even knowing the harm it's doing to them.
...
Because when someone says "Hi, I maintain on less than 2k" and your immediate response is ARE YOU LOGGING ARE YOU TINY YOU MUST BE SEDENTARY that doesn't imply "I would like clarification" that implies disbelief. If you actually believed Deb when she said she maintained <2k you wouldn't have asked for clarification in the first place. I could question your apparent maintenance because it doesn't line up with my personal experience, but I didn't. Because I believe you, on account of human variance being... varied.I asked a few clarifying questions so what. You seem angry that I went that routeAnd what evidence did you provide your bmr so...mine is 50 above that...proves nothing neither does an arbitrary calculation of 1.3 against it a study of 1 is not gospel.
But your study of 1 is. (Also multiple people on this thread have now pointed out that they maintain on sub-2,000. The only thing I did was back it up with actual numbers as a "hey, look, totally possible to maintain on this number without being a tiny sedentary person")
I mean I also have the evidence of "using that number I am losing exactly the amount of weight I should be losing with the deficit I have against said number" as I'm sure the other low maintainers do also (except that's not my BMR. Mine's below that as I pointed out last time I posted in this thread. I was providing stats for a person my height/age/weight without a metabolic issue)
This just in though: BMR and TDEE calculations prove nothing and are useless.As well you haven't responded once in the 16 pages...seems odd you jump in to post about something that is irrelevant to the OP...
I mean, I have. But I've just been reading for a while because I only post when I have something to contribute to the conversation as it currently stands. The conversation as it stood was about maintenance cals.
If you think maintenance cals are irrelevant to the OP about why certain individuals may have a harder time (or believe they do) than other people then... er...
Whatever, I'm done here.
Those two top statements say the same thing...this is not about individual in this topic posting about themselves per say it's about those who say they have a harder time losing then others...
To your 2nd point...I did ask questions...note the question marks at the end of the sentences to indicate I was asking if she was smaller and/or sedentary etc...and me saying "I have to ask...."
....
and I have to ask if you gain on 2k a day are you totally sedentary? exceptionally short (under 5ft tall) and a very tiny woman?
and I have to ask if you use a food scale and are you sure you only eat 1200 and gain on 2k...
@DebSozo and @lexbubbles es Maintenance calories have nothing to do with why people over eat...or are obese or find it harder to lose weight lack of understanding of what maintenance calories are and how to achieve maintenance maybe but I said that on page 1...lack of education not know how to lose but mostly not knowing how to maintain. Not understand CICO or even what calories/servings mean.
but again not going to further this debate with non on topic debates with how people interpret text with prejudice due to their own issues.
Hunh? You missed the point which is that if a person believes that their maintenance level is higher than it is that the pounds will gradually add up. The overeating is not on purpose. It happens under the radar.
no I didn't...how can you think your maintenance is higher than it is if you understand maintenance? How can someone who knows what maintenance is think it's higher? If they eat over it they gain weight that's a sure sign they are eating above maintenance....
There is a very simple calculation for it...total calories consumed+(lbs lost x 3500)/#days and if you aren't losing but staying the same or gaining you adjust the calculation...hence my statement of lack of knowledge and education...
I know my maintenance within 50-100 calories (nothing is perfect) now that I am educated...4 years ago...had no clue...and guess what I was fat...as soon as I understood what it was and how to calculate it the weight fell off...and I have maintained wonderfully.
Do I understand your posts correctly that you believe most people think they are gaining weight without overeating? That they literally have no clue that they could lose weight if they ate less?
no not at all...
They have no clue how much they can eat to lose/maintain or how many calories are in what they are eating or what a serving size is even tho it's on the package...or what an appropriate serving size is...and if they know that they don't really know how to get an accurate count of calories.
You see it here all the time...I am eating 1200 calories and not losing help...when in fact they are eating about 2000 but because they can't judge portion size are not in a deficit.
This is a big why people want to eat so much. They don't understand how it all works.
I will add that lots of people do not cook. They eat the majority of meals in restaurants. Extremely easy to go over maintenance if you are eating out/takeout a lot.
Of course you can eat out every meal and lose/maintain weight. But you have to be aware of calories. Otherwise, lots of people will gain.
Also, people are eating high calorie foods that aren't filling so they eat more because they are hungry.3 -
Eating too much comes from a lack of knowledge. Most people assume that because you are overweight you eat every minute of the day. Not true. I've been watching what I eat for the last 3 yrs or so. Last week my mom bought me a container of banana nut muffins. I was like great, breakfast on the go. That muffin was 750 calories!!!! The old me would have not looked at any packaging and just ate the muffin. Then continued to eat the rest of my meals. But that muffin is like half of my calories for one item. IMO this is what caused me to be overweight before, just a lack of knowledge.5
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For me, I was obese because of lack of awareness. I thought I ate fairly healthy and my friends did too, but I was only gaining or maintaining my weight not losing. I would eat salads, yogurt, and fruit all the time. I thought I would never be able to lose weight. It wasn't until I saw what healthy eating really meant and about portion control, I began to see results. My friend that is obese as well and is trying to lose weight said to me," I eat healthy and I don't eat large portions." I said to her you are probably eating more than you realize. I understood CICO but what 1200 calories really look like I had no clue.
I totally agree on the lack of awareness. Due to my healthcare education I had a lot of knowledge but was very short on "awareness". After I started needing help to get out of the car or movie theater seat I became "aware" I was facing a premature death and an ugly time up to the point of my death.
It was only when I stopped trying to lose weight and focused on eating for better health that I lost pain/weight and regained lost mobility.2 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »For me, I was obese because of lack of awareness. I thought I ate fairly healthy and my friends did too, but I was only gaining or maintaining my weight not losing. I would eat salads, yogurt, and fruit all the time. I thought I would never be able to lose weight. It wasn't until I saw what healthy eating really meant and about portion control, I began to see results. My friend that is obese as well and is trying to lose weight said to me," I eat healthy and I don't eat large portions." I said to her you are probably eating more than you realize. I understood CICO but what 1200 calories really look like I had no clue.
I totally agree on the lack of awareness. Due to my healthcare education I had a lot of knowledge but was very short on "awareness". After I started needing help to get out of the car or movie theater seat I became "aware" I was facing a premature death and an ugly time up to the point of my death.
It was only when I stopped trying to lose weight and focused on eating for better health that I lost pain/weight and regained lost mobility.
Ah awareness. I want to add denial too. In my case I denied. I think a lot of people do too.tayter_tot7 wrote: »Eating too much comes from a lack of knowledge. Most people assume that because you are overweight you eat every minute of the day. Not true. I've been watching what I eat for the last 3 yrs or so. Last week my mom bought me a container of banana nut muffins. I was like great, breakfast on the go. That muffin was 750 calories!!!! The old me would have not looked at any packaging and just ate the muffin. Then continued to eat the rest of my meals. But that muffin is like half of my calories for one item. IMO this is what caused me to be overweight before, just a lack of knowledge.
I would eat the 750 calorie muffin, knowing the calories, and tell myself I would watch what I eat "later". Later comes, I am hungry so I eat which puts me over maintenance. Probably would have another muffin plus other foods. Then I know I'm over and feel defeated so may as well have another muffin! UGH!! 2250 calories + whatever else I ate.
I denied that the "muffin" would play put like that. Being aware and admitting this is helpful.
I think this is a common scenario.
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