Zimmerman vs. Martin

moosegt35

I'm sure several people have echoed my thoughts so I'll just say:

I hope Zimmerman walks.

me2
& he will.

I'm just worried about what will happen to him...and the riots that are will be started when he is found not guilty.

Zimmerman's attorney stated two nights ago while interviewing that his client will never be safe. He also stated that he will never live a normal life. He will fall off the face of the earth just like Casey.

He won't be. And he can thank the media, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and Obama for that.

It only took 7 pages to blame Obama?

"If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon Martin" to the entire world. What does the fact that they are (half) the same race have anything to do with it?

George Lopez should have said "If I had a brother, he would look like George Zimmerman"

Laces_0ut

Not related at all. You can defend yourself when someone does something, you can't attack them for following you. Take emotion out of it and look at facts.

and yet i bet you support Benard Goetz. he killed those kids on a NY subway because he felt threatened.

Achrya

This is pathetic thread that should be locked. If it were about God, it would have been stopped 7 pages ago, but since it is about the murder of a black child and yes, 17 is a child. Anyone knows that, it doesn't take a degree to see that. If someone was stopping my son, he would probably not react with roses and flowers.

Get racially profiled because you drive a nice vehicle, live in a decent neighborhood, then come talk to me.

George Zimmerman was wrong, he had no business playing, judge, jury and executioner. Now you can all respond with your nasty snide remarks, I expect it. I see a lot of bigotry and racism here and MFP should be ashamed for letting it continue.

i agree with you on everything but having this locked. its good for people to discuss this. if anything it exposes the racists.

I suppose this is true. I'm full on "Tell me more" every time someone mentions race wars or being scared of black people's reactions or uses the word thug. The casual racism, bundled up as concern for the neighborhood/law/justice/society is my favorite because they don't even realize how what they say actually is projecting.

Those darn scary black people and their social pressure and the media (run by black people I guess) and their darn race war riots!

Meanwhile in Europe, people riot over football.

norahwynn

I think Zimmerman was overcharged for sure.
Do I think he committed a crime? Yes. Do I think it's murder? Nope.
I think that it was sh*tty for NBC News to turn this into a race thing before that day even ended, and because they manipulated Zimmerman's 911 call, they have lost a huge amount of credibility.
I think that Zimmerman has been characterized as a racist, which I do not believe. Is he a overzealous *kitten* that took the law into his own hands, abso-f'ing-lutely.
I believe that Al Sharpton is feeding the machine by talking mainly about race.
I believe that Jesse Jackson is feeding the machine by talking mainly about race.
I truly believe that if Zimmerman is found not guilty, that there will be riots.

I cannot wait until the day that Jesse and Al are too old to stand on their soapboxes and take advantage of families that are grieving. Wherever there's a camera, a little injustice (warranted or not), and a black mother crying, you will def see one of them standing next to her. Where are they when it comes to black on black crime? WHY DOES THAT NOT MATTER TO THEM???

Where are the rally's, walks, protests...etc, in Chicago?! There were 67 people shot, and 11 of them dead over this July 4th holiday weekend. 67 shot, 11 dead.

As of 7/8/13, there have been 1043 people shot in Chicago. That number would be absolutely ridiculous if it was state wide...but it's just in one city!!

Where are the 'leaders' of the black community'? They'd rather get in front of the camera for 1 dead kid that was shot by a Hispanic guy (yep...he's not white, but the media likes to portray him to be. It makes a better story), than go a bit north to see what they can do to stop the bull$hit that's happening in Chicago. The camera's are in Sanford, FL, not in Chicago, IL.

It is very, very sad what has happened to Trayvon Martin. I have a son, and cannot imagine the hurt the family is going through. But I can't see how anyone that is not sitting in this courtroom, day after day, can say that they hope the verdict goes one way or the other. What is that based on. You only know what you've heard on TV and what has been told to you by the media. The only people that can judge this correctly based on ALL THE FACTS, is the jury.

(me thinks I've probably pissed some people off....so I offer to them, a flower :flowerforyou: )

amaysngrace

So, let me quote you on this, "Regardless, Zimmerman still had the right to walk and follow anyone..." Then, you state, "When Trayvon eluded Zimmerman he should have went home, instead he chose to confront and that is what got him killed." So, let me get this right...It is okay for Zimmerman to walk and follow behind anyone he chooses to at this ungodly hour, but Trayvon did not have the right to walk home from wherever he was coming from? LET ALONE you say that Trayvon did not have the right to confront this man as he followed him,( who was not a cop), and who therefore did not have the right to be following him to begin with... Because Trayvon was not doing anything suspicious except for the simple fact that he happened to be a black man, wearing a hoodie and walking the street at night-correct? So, according to you, this gave Zimmerman the right to "enforce" the law according to your statement and he had the right to deem this boy who he chose to follow as "suspicious"? And my follow up question to this is: Why are you justifying that what Zimmerman did was correct because you also have preconceived stereotypes about people who look suspicious to you as well, so because you would have done the same thing in the same situation makes it okay in your eyes, for what Zimmerman did to Trayvon correct? It's funny how the stereotypes people assume about others always makes an a*^ out of those who are making the assumptions. A prime example of this is when I exited my driveway to mail a package to a friend for Valentine's Day, and the police followed me for 10 minutes before they put on their flashers and called backup. Now, my question was why was I followed? Was it because I was a black woman who was driving an SUV with factory tinted windows in the backseat in a predominantly white suburb of Missouri, or was it because they really felt they had some dirt on me? Well, it was the first reason unfortunately, because there was no dirt on me besides the fact that they stated my taillight was out, yet this instigated a backup call and a response to follow me for 10 minutes under the suspicion that I was either on my way to committing suspicious behavior or the fact that because I am black I was going to constitute some sort of suspicious behavior and therefore, the police now had the right to target me as suspicious by following me for 10 minutes? Wow...great logic!

1) Following someone is not a crime. If it is, every person in a car on the road is guilty.

2) 'Confront' does not mean 'commit battery'. Martin was beating Zimmerman's head against a sidewalk.

As for your story, well...

1) The officer was probably running your plates while following you, which is why it took him/her time to then pull you over.

2) Maybe the was an APB for you particular make/model of vehicle in the area where you were.

3) Was your tail light really out? if so, there you go.

4) You are being paranoid and a tad hyper-sensitive.

Yeah, and you would know huh, never been DWB'd or racially profiled before have ya?

My mom drives a silver car.



My bad, I thought we were talking about things that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Oh, my bad, I wasn't even talking to you...

moosegt35

This is pathetic thread that should be locked. If it were about God, it would have been stopped 7 pages ago, but since it is about the murder of a black child and yes, 17 is a child. Anyone knows that, it doesn't take a degree to see that. If someone was stopping my son, he would probably not react with roses and flowers.

Get racially profiled because you drive a nice vehicle, live in a decent neighborhood, then come talk to me.

George Zimmerman was wrong, he had no business playing, judge, jury and executioner. Now you can all respond with your nasty snide remarks, I expect it. I see a lot of bigotry and racism here and MFP should be ashamed for letting it continue.

I haven't seen one racist post in this entire thread. The only reason there is a trial is because of racism though. I hope for your son's sake that he is smarter than Martin and would react like a human being and not an animal to attack someone for asking him why he was walking through a neighborhood in 90* weather with a hoodie at 2am.

Laces_0ut

My mom drives a silver car.



My bad, I thought we were talking about things that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

if you cant understand how racial profiling plays into this then that further explains why you have the opinions you do.

Racial Profiling = Creepy *ss Cracker.

LOL

lol i dont even understand this

moosegt35

From my understanding, a young man was walking through a gated community, talking on the phone, while he made his way back to his place after buying snacks at a convenience store.

And some dude, under the guise of being part of a neighborhood watch, accosted him. AFTER the police told him not to.

Now, if some son of a b approached me, and I told him to back off, and he didn't and we got into a scuffle where I ended up getting shot?

Who is guilty? What, if someone approaches me in a confrontational way, I'm not supposed to defend myself?

I don't care if Trayvon is percieved as a child or a thug. He was minding his own business and Zimmerman instigated. Had Zimmerman done what the police TOLD him to do, Trayvon would have kept on walking and none of this would have happened.

This is my take on it. And it doesn't matter to me that Trayvon got in trouble at school or smoked pot. He is 17. Lots of kids behave this way and grow up to be 100% awesome contributing members of society.

Trayvon didn't get the chance to do that because a grown assed man approached him and started a fight. Unreal.

This sums it up for me, its just pure sadness, Trayvon is dead because Zimmerman took things into his own hands, vigilante, I hope justice is served

So it has nothing to do with Trayvon attacking him and beating his head into the ground. A bit biased maybe?

Martin wouldn't have attacked if Zimmerman hadn't pursued.

That has NOTHING to do with it. I am sorry but you can't legally attack someone for following you. It's not the way the world works. You can't start a fight and bash someone's head into the ground and expect there to be no consequences.

Doodlewhopper

So, let me quote you on this, "Regardless, Zimmerman still had the right to walk and follow anyone..." Then, you state, "When Trayvon eluded Zimmerman he should have went home, instead he chose to confront and that is what got him killed." So, let me get this right...It is okay for Zimmerman to walk and follow behind anyone he chooses to at this ungodly hour, but Trayvon did not have the right to walk home from wherever he was coming from? LET ALONE you say that Trayvon did not have the right to confront this man as he followed him,( who was not a cop), and who therefore did not have the right to be following him to begin with... Because Trayvon was not doing anything suspicious except for the simple fact that he happened to be a black man, wearing a hoodie and walking the street at night-correct? So, according to you, this gave Zimmerman the right to "enforce" the law according to your statement and he had the right to deem this boy who he chose to follow as "suspicious"? And my follow up question to this is: Why are you justifying that what Zimmerman did was correct because you also have preconceived stereotypes about people who look suspicious to you as well, so because you would have done the same thing in the same situation makes it okay in your eyes, for what Zimmerman did to Trayvon correct? It's funny how the stereotypes people assume about others always makes an a*^ out of those who are making the assumptions. A prime example of this is when I exited my driveway to mail a package to a friend for Valentine's Day, and the police followed me for 10 minutes before they put on their flashers and called backup. Now, my question was why was I followed? Was it because I was a black woman who was driving an SUV with factory tinted windows in the backseat in a predominantly white suburb of Missouri, or was it because they really felt they had some dirt on me? Well, it was the first reason unfortunately, because there was no dirt on me besides the fact that they stated my taillight was out, yet this instigated a backup call and a response to follow me for 10 minutes under the suspicion that I was either on my way to committing suspicious behavior or the fact that because I am black I was going to constitute some sort of suspicious behavior and therefore, the police now had the right to target me as suspicious by following me for 10 minutes? Wow...great logic!

1) Following someone is not a crime. If it is, every person in a car on the road is guilty.

2) 'Confront' does not mean 'commit battery'. Martin was beating Zimmerman's head against a sidewalk.

As for your story, well...

1) The officer was probably running your plates while following you, which is why it took him/her time to then pull you over.

2) Maybe the was an APB for you particular make/model of vehicle in the area where you were.

3) Was your tail light really out? if so, there you go.

4) You are being paranoid and a tad hyper-sensitive.

Yeah, and you would know huh, never been DWB'd or racially profiled before have ya?

and you seem to be wanting Zimmerman to pay for that...

amaysngrace

Why do you hope he is found guilty?

Is it because the news shows Martin as a 10 year old kid in all his pics? Martin was a thug, drug dealer, "gangster", etc..

Do I think Zimmerman is an idiot want to be cop? Yes. But he will never get changed with murder 2.

All of Zimmerman's story is lining up as well. He's going to walk and there will be a huge race war over nothing.

God I hate this world.

Its amazing that you were so close to Martin that you know exactly that he was a thug, drug dealer and "gangster". Were you one of his customers? If George Zimmerman have nothing to hide, let him take the stand and tell all the world what actually took place. Why do we need to have his evidence animated, ask yourself that question, if that was one of your relatives, would you be happy to have an animated account of what actually took place, whilst the killer sits a couple of feet away. The big elephant in the room is that if Zimmerman had followed instructions, Martin would have been alive today. The whole case is flawed from the start, Zimmerman knows what he did, and even if he walks, he have to live with his conscience. I hope he realize that life is a circle, something we as human beings fail to acknowledge.

The police videoed Zimmerman re-enacting the incident and answering the investigator's questions. This was a lengthy video.

The evidence supports Zimmerman's story.

Zimmerman was not ordered to "stand down" or "cease and desist". The dispatcher basically stated, "oh we dont need you to do that" or something to the effect. There is a difference between a suggestion and an order. Regardless, Zimmerman still had the right to walk and follow anyone.

When Travon eluded Zimmerman he should have went home, instead he chose to confront and that is what got him killed.

With crime as it is we need an active community, we need to get our neighbor's back. I have seen suspicious activities and have assisted the police very similar to what Zimmerman did, and I received praise. Go figure.

So, let me quote you on this, "Regardless, Zimmerman still had the right to walk and follow anyone..." Then, you state, "When Trayvon eluded Zimmerman he should have went home, instead he chose to confront and that is what got him killed." So, let me get this right...It is okay for Zimmerman to walk and follow behind anyone he chooses to at this ungodly hour, but Trayvon did not have the right to walk home from wherever he was coming from? LET ALONE you say that Trayvon did not have the right to confront this man as he followed him,( who was not a cop), and who therefore did not have the right to be following him to begin with... Because Trayvon was not doing anything suspicious except for the simple fact that he happened to be a black man, wearing a hoodie and walking the street at night-correct? So, according to you, this gave Zimmerman the right to "enforce" the law according to your statement and he had the right to deem this boy who he chose to follow as "suspicious"? And my follow up question to this is: Why are you justifying that what Zimmerman did was correct because you also have preconceived stereotypes about people who look suspicious to you as well, so because you would have done the same thing in the same situation makes it okay in your eyes, for what Zimmerman did to Trayvon correct? It's funny how the stereotypes people assume about others always makes an a*^ out of those who are making the assumptions. A prime example of this is when I exited my driveway to mail a package to a friend for Valentine's Day, and the police followed me for 10 minutes before they put on their flashers and called backup. Now, my question was why was I followed? Was it because I was a black woman who was driving an SUV with factory tinted windows in the backseat in a predominantly white suburb of Missouri, or was it because they really felt they had some dirt on me? Well, it was the first reason unfortunately, because there was no dirt on me besides the fact that they stated my taillight was out, yet this instigated a backup call and a response to follow me for 10 minutes under the suspicion that I was either on my way to committing suspicious behavior or the fact that because I am black I was going to constitute some sort of suspicious behavior and therefore, the police now had the right to target me as suspicious by following me for 10 minutes? Wow...great logic!

I quit your post about 1/2 through. I couldnt stand reading your made up imaginary arguments, invented facts and groundless conclusions.

Good, I cant stand to know that you cant stand it, nor do I care...

mariposa224

I think Zimmerman was overcharged for sure.
Do I think he committed a crime? Yes. Do I think it's murder? Nope.
I think that it was sh*tty for NBC News to turn this into a race thing before that day even ended, and because they manipulated Zimmerman's 911 call, they have lost a huge amount of credibility.
I think that Zimmerman has been characterized as a racist, which I do not believe. Is he a overzealous *kitten* that took the law into his own hands, abso-f'ing-lutely.
I believe that Al Sharpton is feeding the machine by talking mainly about race.
I believe that Jesse Jackson is feeding the machine by talking mainly about race.
I truly believe that if Zimmerman is found not guilty, that there will be riots.

I cannot wait until the day that Jesse and Al are too old to stand on their soapboxes and take advantage of families that are grieving. Wherever there's a camera, a little injustice (warranted or not), and a black mother crying, you will def see one of them standing next to her. Where are they when it comes to black on black crime? WHY DOES THAT NOT MATTER TO THEM???

Where are the rally's, walks, protests...etc, in Chicago?! There were 67 people shot, and 11 of them dead over this July 4th holiday weekend. 67 shot, 11 dead.

As of 7/8/13, there have been 1043 people shot in Chicago. That number would be absolutely ridiculous if it was state wide...but it's just in one city!!

Where are the 'leaders' of the black community'? They'd rather get in front of the camera for 1 dead kid that was shot by a Hispanic guy (yep...he's not white, but the media likes to portray him to be. It makes a better story), than go a bit north to see what they can do to stop the bull$hit that's happening in Chicago. The camera's are in Sanford, FL, not in Chicago, IL.

It is very, very sad what has happened to Trayvon Martin. I have a son, and cannot imagine the hurt the family is going through. But I can't see how anyone that is not sitting in this courtroom, day after day, can say that they hope the verdict goes one way or the other. What is that based on. You only know what you've heard on TV and what has been told to you by the media. The only people that can judge this correctly based on ALL THE FACTS, is the jury.

(me thinks I've probably pissed some people off....so I offer to them, a flower :flowerforyou: )

^^ THIS!

moosegt35

lol GZ wasnt close to being killed. so if i have a gun..walk up to you and slap you...then you punch me can i kill you because i think my life is in danger?

Ok here's a test. Let someone get on top of you, grab your head and hit it against a sidewalk a few times and tell me if you don't have a fleeting thought of "hey, this could kill me."

Go...

QFT

lol im losing a fight...there is an extremely remote chance i might die...ill just kill the guy..

yeah that makes sense

It actually does, its the law pretty much anywhere in the USA. Especially for fights you didn't start.

Laces_0ut

I haven't seen one racist post in this entire thread. The only reason there is a trial is because of racism though. I hope for your son's sake that he is smarter than Martin and would react like a human being and not an animal to attack someone for asking him why he was walking through a neighborhood in 90* weather with a hoodie at 2am.

Treyvon is the animal? hes not the one that instigated this entire thing. if GZ had just stayed in his car this never would have happened. if anyone is an animal its GZ.

channy70

[/quote]

"the problem here is exactly that, he is being over charged therefore he should walk based on the fact that this was NOT Murder in the 2nd.
Zimmerman is NOT the sharpest tool in the shed, he made some mistakes but he was not set out to kill the boy..... hence his innocence in this charge."


edited for grammar

How are you or anyone else so sure what Zimmerman was thinking to say that he did not set out to kill Trayvon Martin (the boy has a name). When he decided to follow him after being told not to, there was a reason. When he decided to pull his gun out against this unarmed teenager, that he followed, there was a reason. Whether he is found guilty or not, he decided to take the life of an innocent child that didn't deserve it. He took this child away from his parents that didn't deserve it. And maybe for those of you out there who think he just made a mistake, if you ever lose a child to a violent crime unnecessarily, will you be so understanding to say that it was just a mistake.

wswilliams67

i agree with you on everything but having this locked. its good for people to discuss this. if anything it exposes the racists.

Yes, because having a differing viewpoint of the FACTS of a legal case makes one a racist.

not everyone who sides with GZ is a racist...probably on a small percent....but some of the posts in this thread are racist.

Well I for one am not 'siding' with anyone. I think GZ did a stupid thing, but it wasn't Murder 2. I also think TM did a stupid thing. It was a perfect storm of stupidity. What this thread REALLY exposes is how many cannot remove emotion from a discussion and look at the facts of the case.

This is why the legal system is designed the way it is. Innocent until proven guilty beyond any reasonable doubt. It may not be perfect, but it's better than the other alternatives out in the world. If trials were based on pure emotion or moral outrage then we'd all be guilty of something.

moosegt35

Third, this was a 6', 17 year old young man. Martin was hardly a 'child'. He was the one who came at Zimmerman first. He was beating the crap out of Zimmerman, the police photos and medical documents prove that.

Fourth, sorry but it was self-defense.

Size isn't the issue. Age is. Seventeen is a child. How mature were you at that age? I am the mother of an 18-year-old college student. I know her friends. They are still children.

As for self-defense/stand your ground, considering that Zimmerman was following Trayvon, couldn't the prosecution make a case that TRAYVON was standing his ground? Zimmerman is responsible by his actions for what happened. Now someone is dead. Had he at the very least remained in his vehicle, this would not have happened.

No because you can't stand your ground against someone walking behind you. Someone walking isn't a threat to your life. Beating your head into the ground is. You should really read up on laws.

Tell that to the person being followed for no reason at all. Have you ever been followed on a dark night to the point you were afraid for your life or well-being? Have you ever felt the need to defend yourself from that threat? In defending yourself, if at some point you end up on top, beating your pursuers head into the ground, do you deserve to be killed? What would you expect to happen to the person who followed you (causing the entire confrontation) and killed you?

There was an incident here a few years ago where a man was walking home from work after midnight. He was followed for several blocks by another man. Eventually, the second man (who was armed) got close enough to the man walking home and attempted to rob him. A struggled ensued and the would-be-robber was eventually over-powered by the would-be-victim. The victim put the robber in a choke hold and held him there until police arrived. The robber was pronounced dead at the scene. The victim wasn't charged as it was deemed self-defense. If the situation were slightly different and the victim (even after having the upper hand at one point) ended up stabbed, bleeding out and dead wouldn't you expect the robber to be charged to the fullest extent of the law? Does the fact that he was getting beat up suddenly make him the victim?? Does the fact the Zimmerman was getting beat up at one point make him any less of a threat to the person he was following?

This whole tragedy could have been avoided if he had stayed in his car as instructed.

Amen girl! He could've turn the other cheek!

And so could Martin, but he chose to ATTACK someone, not follow them but ATTACK them. But it's not his fault.

airen123

I'm just fascinated by how many people are ignoring the fact that it was Martin who attacked Zimmerman while he was getting BACK in his car and the growing amount of evidence and testimonies from the police and reports that support Zimmerman's story. :noway:
Facts are facts.

MissTattoo

No one is on the jury. No one knows all the facts.

Our neighborhood watch has been telling us for YEARS to NEVER follow anyone that you think is suspicious. Why would you do that? Obviously GZ wasn't scared. He had a loaded gun ready to shoot anything that moved.

There are wrongs all around. GZ should have never provoked TM. TM should have kept walking home. He shouldn't have attacked GZ. GZ should have put his balls on and fought back with his fist instead of firing his weapon. Who brings a gun to a fist fight? GZ wasn't some weak little man.

When it comes down to it, they both had a right to defend themselves.

If you don't think race has anything to do with it, you are naive. To think race is all of it, is ignorance.

Unless you are a black male that has been profiled for no reason whatsoever then you have no idea what it feels like. TM was probably thinking "here we go again. I'm sick of this crap." GZ was probably thinking "Oh here we go again. Another one of these black thugs walking around."

Have any of you been racially profiled? I bought a brand new car in 2011. Do you know how many times the police pulled me over on my way to work for stupid crap they made up? Broken tail light, expired tags (though they were still temp tags) no stickers in the window (even though they were brand new) the tint on the windows being dark (even though there is no tint whatsoever on any of my windows) The cop said "I must have passed a shady spot and he thought my windows were dark. O_O Finally when I started recording and told them I was reporting them to our borough for harassment and racial profiling, it stopped. When I had my old 2001 Mitsubishi I never got pulled over. Suddenly I buy a 2011 brand new car with no defects and I get pulled over 8 times in a month. Hmmm....

shelialou66

Reread it then, you obviously have a comprehension problem. This thread is full of racist comments. Oh he who will not see what is right before his eyes!

Laces_0ut

It actually does, its the law pretty much anywhere in the USA. Especially for fights you didn't start.

lady, maybe you feel this way because you feel like you cant defend yourself in a fight....but for guys...losing a fight doesnt mean you kill someone.