Zimmerman vs. Martin
Replies
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I'm just fascinated by how many people are ignoring the fact that it was Martin who attacked Zimmerman while he was getting BACK in his car and the growing amount of evidence and testimonies from the police and reports that support Zimmerman's story. :noway:
Facts are facts.
if you have been followed and that person is going back to their car...they could being going for a gun in their glove compartment...maybe treyvon didnt want to give him that chance.
GZ should have never got out of his car. if he wants to play wanna be cop..he should have called it in and just sat there.0 -
My mom drives a silver car.
My bad, I thought we were talking about things that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.
if you cant understand how racial profiling plays into this then that further explains why you have the opinions you do.
He may have been racially profiled, and that is wrong and I disagree with doing it. It still doesn't give him a right to ATTACK someone. He could have told him to F off and kept walking and he would be alive. He chose to attack and got a Darwin award.0 -
Y'all are getting way too angry over this. Have a :flowerforyou: and some coffee to make your morning brighter :drinker: :drinker: :drinker:0
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I think Zimmerman was overcharged for sure.
Do I think he committed a crime? Yes. Do I think it's murder? Nope.
I think that it was sh*tty for NBC News to turn this into a race thing before that day even ended, and because they manipulated Zimmerman's 911 call, they have lost a huge amount of credibility.
I think that Zimmerman has been characterized as a racist, which I do not believe. Is he a overzealous *kitten* that took the law into his own hands, abso-f'ing-lutely.
I believe that Al Sharpton is feeding the machine by talking mainly about race.
I believe that Jesse Jackson is feeding the machine by talking mainly about race.
I truly believe that if Zimmerman is found not guilty, that there will be riots.
I cannot wait until the day that Jesse and Al are too old to stand on their soapboxes and take advantage of families that are grieving. Wherever there's a camera, a little injustice (warranted or not), and a black mother crying, you will def see one of them standing next to her. Where are they when it comes to black on black crime? WHY DOES THAT NOT MATTER TO THEM???
Where are the rally's, walks, protests...etc, in Chicago?! There were 67 people shot, and 11 of them dead over this July 4th holiday weekend. 67 shot, 11 dead.
As of 7/8/13, there have been 1043 people shot in Chicago. That number would be absolutely ridiculous if it was state wide...but it's just in one city!!
Where are the 'leaders' of the black community'? They'd rather get in front of the camera for 1 dead kid that was shot by a Hispanic guy (yep...he's not white, but the media likes to portray him to be. It makes a better story), than go a bit north to see what they can do to stop the bull$hit that's happening in Chicago. The camera's are in Sanford, FL, not in Chicago, IL.
It is very, very sad what has happened to Trayvon Martin. I have a son, and cannot imagine the hurt the family is going through. But I can't see how anyone that is not sitting in this courtroom, day after day, can say that they hope the verdict goes one way or the other. What is that based on. You only know what you've heard on TV and what has been told to you by the media. The only people that can judge this correctly based on ALL THE FACTS, is the jury.
(me thinks I've probably pissed some people off....so I offer to them, a flower :flowerforyou: )
QFT!
And lets not forget the 5 black on black murders in Indy over the last 4 days. Indy is getting up there with one or more murders daily.0 -
I think I'm more worried about the potential repercussions. 'Stand your grown' is a very flippy-floppy kind of law that applies to some but not others. There are too many inconsistencies.
'In Winter Springs, Owen Eugene Whitlock came home on Christmas Eve 2009 to find his daughter's boyfriend, Jose Ramirez, angrily stalking up his driveway, flexing his muscles and swinging his fists. Whitlock stood his ground and fired a fatal shot. He was not charged.
In Clearwater, Terry Tyrone Davis shot and killed his cousin as he stalked up the walkway of Davis' home in 2010 with a group of friends. "There's no doubt he was going over there to kick his a--,'' Circuit Judge Philip J. Federico said, "but that does not allow you to kill a guy." Davis is now serving 25 years in prison. '
(Source: http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/florida-stand-your-ground-law-yields-some-shocking-outcomes-depending-on/1233133)
No SYG is a well defined law that draws a distinct legal line. It removes the obligation of a potential victim to retreat first. Basically if there is a reasonable belief of an unlawful threat, the person can stand and meet the threat with deadly force.
Here in Texas, if you pull your weapon, a law has been broken, either by you or the person who provoked the action.
So the cases in that article, and others similar to it on a simple 'stand your ground cases' search on Google, prove that it's a 'well-defined law'? I think we beg to differ on that. What is different about those two cases I quoted above that one was able to be set free and the other was sent to jail? The judge admitted that the guy was about to be beaten. Why wasn't he able to defend himself?
The law needs fixing.
Youre confusing the written law with it's interpretation and application.0 -
Third, this was a 6', 17 year old young man. Martin was hardly a 'child'. He was the one who came at Zimmerman first. He was beating the crap out of Zimmerman, the police photos and medical documents prove that.
Fourth, sorry but it was self-defense.
Size isn't the issue. Age is. Seventeen is a child. How mature were you at that age? I am the mother of an 18-year-old college student. I know her friends. They are still children.
As for self-defense/stand your ground, considering that Zimmerman was following Trayvon, couldn't the prosecution make a case that TRAYVON was standing his ground? Zimmerman is responsible by his actions for what happened. Now someone is dead. Had he at the very least remained in his vehicle, this would not have happened.
No because you can't stand your ground against someone walking behind you. Someone walking isn't a threat to your life. Beating your head into the ground is. You should really read up on laws.
Tell that to the person being followed for no reason at all. Have you ever been followed on a dark night to the point you were afraid for your life or well-being? Have you ever felt the need to defend yourself from that threat? In defending yourself, if at some point you end up on top, beating your pursuers head into the ground, do you deserve to be killed? What would you expect to happen to the person who followed you (causing the entire confrontation) and killed you?
There was an incident here a few years ago where a man was walking home from work after midnight. He was followed for several blocks by another man. Eventually, the second man (who was armed) got close enough to the man walking home and attempted to rob him. A struggled ensued and the would-be-robber was eventually over-powered by the would-be-victim. The victim put the robber in a choke hold and held him there until police arrived. The robber was pronounced dead at the scene. The victim wasn't charged as it was deemed self-defense. If the situation were slightly different and the victim (even after having the upper hand at one point) ended up stabbed, bleeding out and dead wouldn't you expect the robber to be charged to the fullest extent of the law? Does the fact that he was getting beat up suddenly make him the victim?? Does the fact the Zimmerman was getting beat up at one point make him any less of a threat to the person he was following?
This whole tragedy could have been avoided if he had stayed in his car as instructed.
Amen girl! He could've turn the other cheek!
And so could Martin, but he chose to ATTACK someone, not follow them but ATTACK them. But it's not his fault.
Nope, Trayvon can now rest in peace and leave his killer to deal with this mess!0 -
Size isn't the issue. Age is. Seventeen is a child. How mature were you at that age? I am the mother of an 18-year-old college student. I know her friends. They are still children.
As for self-defense/stand your ground, considering that Zimmerman was following Trayvon, couldn't the prosecution make a case that TRAYVON was standing his ground? Zimmerman is responsible by his actions for what happened. Now someone is dead. Had he at the very least remained in his vehicle, this would not have happened.
[/quote]
I completed basic training at 17. Comment about immature at that age is irrelevant. According to his parents they thought he was mature enough to be on the streets at 2 am.0 -
I think Zimmerman was overcharged for sure.
Do I think he committed a crime? Yes. Do I think it's murder? Nope.
I think that it was sh*tty for NBC News to turn this into a race thing before that day even ended, and because they manipulated Zimmerman's 911 call, they have lost a huge amount of credibility.
I think that Zimmerman has been characterized as a racist, which I do not believe. Is he a overzealous *kitten* that took the law into his own hands, abso-f'ing-lutely.
I believe that Al Sharpton is feeding the machine by talking mainly about race.
I believe that Jesse Jackson is feeding the machine by talking mainly about race.
I truly believe that if Zimmerman is found not guilty, that there will be riots.
I cannot wait until the day that Jesse and Al are too old to stand on their soapboxes and take advantage of families that are grieving. Wherever there's a camera, a little injustice (warranted or not), and a black mother crying, you will def see one of them standing next to her. Where are they when it comes to black on black crime? WHY DOES THAT NOT MATTER TO THEM???
Where are the rally's, walks, protests...etc, in Chicago?! There were 67 people shot, and 11 of them dead over this July 4th holiday weekend. 67 shot, 11 dead.
As of 7/8/13, there have been 1043 people shot in Chicago. That number would be absolutely ridiculous if it was state wide...but it's just in one city!!
Where are the 'leaders' of the black community'? They'd rather get in front of the camera for 1 dead kid that was shot by a Hispanic guy (yep...he's not white, but the media likes to portray him to be. It makes a better story), than go a bit north to see what they can do to stop the bull$hit that's happening in Chicago. The camera's are in Sanford, FL, not in Chicago, IL.
It is very, very sad what has happened to Trayvon Martin. I have a son, and cannot imagine the hurt the family is going through. But I can't see how anyone that is not sitting in this courtroom, day after day, can say that they hope the verdict goes one way or the other. What is that based on. You only know what you've heard on TV and what has been told to you by the media. The only people that can judge this correctly based on ALL THE FACTS, is the jury.
(me thinks I've probably pissed some people off....so I offer to them, a flower :flowerforyou: )
I think this in one of the most intelligent posts in this thread.0 -
My mom drives a silver car.
My bad, I thought we were talking about things that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.
if you cant understand how racial profiling plays into this then that further explains why you have the opinions you do.
He may have been racially profiled, and that is wrong and I disagree with doing it. It still doesn't give him a right to ATTACK someone. He could have told him to F off and kept walking and he would be alive. He chose to attack and got a Darwin award.
Darwin award? that means its good for society that his genes are no longer to be passed on. wow lady...just wow.0 -
Size isn't the issue. Age is. Seventeen is a child. How mature were you at that age? I am the mother of an 18-year-old college student. I know her friends. They are still children.
As for self-defense/stand your ground, considering that Zimmerman was following Trayvon, couldn't the prosecution make a case that TRAYVON was standing his ground? Zimmerman is responsible by his actions for what happened. Now someone is dead. Had he at the very least remained in his vehicle, this would not have happened.
I completed basic training at 17. Comment about immature at that age is irrelevant. According to his parents they thought he was mature enough to be on the streets at 2 am.
[/quote]
I also completed basic training at 17. I was stationed in Okinawa, Japan at the age of 18 for 2 years. I agree that age & maturity is irrelevant.0 -
My children have a white grandmother, so come again, think of something else0
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Racial Profiling = Creepy *ss Cracker.My mom drives a silver car.
My bad, I thought we were talking about things that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.
if you cant understand how racial profiling plays into this then that further explains why you have the opinions you do.
LOL
lol i dont even understand this
Because you haven't been watching the trial where facts are coming out and heard the "star witness" for the prosecution. Uninformed. Surprise.0 -
I, along with many other people, have reported this post to the admins to be removed or locked! It is getting way out of hand and should never have been posted!0
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I think Zimmerman was overcharged for sure.
Do I think he committed a crime? Yes. Do I think it's murder? Nope.
I think that it was sh*tty for NBC News to turn this into a race thing before that day even ended, and because they manipulated Zimmerman's 911 call, they have lost a huge amount of credibility.
I think that Zimmerman has been characterized as a racist, which I do not believe. Is he a overzealous *kitten* that took the law into his own hands, abso-f'ing-lutely.
I believe that Al Sharpton is feeding the machine by talking mainly about race.
I believe that Jesse Jackson is feeding the machine by talking mainly about race.
I truly believe that if Zimmerman is found not guilty, that there will be riots.
I cannot wait until the day that Jesse and Al are too old to stand on their soapboxes and take advantage of families that are grieving. Wherever there's a camera, a little injustice (warranted or not), and a black mother crying, you will def see one of them standing next to her. Where are they when it comes to black on black crime? WHY DOES THAT NOT MATTER TO THEM???
Where are the rally's, walks, protests...etc, in Chicago?! There were 67 people shot, and 11 of them dead over this July 4th holiday weekend. 67 shot, 11 dead.
As of 7/8/13, there have been 1043 people shot in Chicago. That number would be absolutely ridiculous if it was state wide...but it's just in one city!!
Where are the 'leaders' of the black community'? They'd rather get in front of the camera for 1 dead kid that was shot by a Hispanic guy (yep...he's not white, but the media likes to portray him to be. It makes a better story), than go a bit north to see what they can do to stop the bull$hit that's happening in Chicago. The camera's are in Sanford, FL, not in Chicago, IL.
It is very, very sad what has happened to Trayvon Martin. I have a son, and cannot imagine the hurt the family is going through. But I can't see how anyone that is not sitting in this courtroom, day after day, can say that they hope the verdict goes one way or the other. What is that based on. You only know what you've heard on TV and what has been told to you by the media. The only people that can judge this correctly based on ALL THE FACTS, is the jury.
(me thinks I've probably pissed some people off....so I offer to them, a flower :flowerforyou: )
^ This is one of very few well reasoned opinions I've seen in this thread. I wish more people would allow the ACTUAL facts to be analyzed and a reasoned decision to be made. Whatever decision the jury makes, at least it will be made by a group of people who sat there and carefully listened to both sides of the story rather than participating in the media circus that this trial has unfortunately become. The personal agendas represented in this thread are a terrifying reminder of how far we as a country still have to go to the point where we see each other as individuals and not representatives of our races.0 -
lady, maybe you feel this way because you feel like you cant defend yourself in a fight....but for guys...losing a fight doesnt mean you kill someone.
It wasn't a bro fight over some girl. TM was slamming GZ's head against a sidewalk.0 -
Parents, why are you letting your teenagers walk to 7-11 at 2 in the morning? That right there is the craziest part of the whole story to me.
^^ THIS!0 -
I think Zimmerman was overcharged for sure.
Do I think he committed a crime? Yes. Do I think it's murder? Nope.
I think that it was sh*tty for NBC News to turn this into a race thing before that day even ended, and because they manipulated Zimmerman's 911 call, they have lost a huge amount of credibility.
I think that Zimmerman has been characterized as a racist, which I do not believe. Is he a overzealous *kitten* that took the law into his own hands, abso-f'ing-lutely.
I believe that Al Sharpton is feeding the machine by talking mainly about race.
I believe that Jesse Jackson is feeding the machine by talking mainly about race.
I truly believe that if Zimmerman is found not guilty, that there will be riots.
I cannot wait until the day that Jesse and Al are too old to stand on their soapboxes and take advantage of families that are grieving. Wherever there's a camera, a little injustice (warranted or not), and a black mother crying, you will def see one of them standing next to her. Where are they when it comes to black on black crime? WHY DOES THAT NOT MATTER TO THEM???
Where are the rally's, walks, protests...etc, in Chicago?! There were 67 people shot, and 11 of them dead over this July 4th holiday weekend. 67 shot, 11 dead.
As of 7/8/13, there have been 1043 people shot in Chicago. That number would be absolutely ridiculous if it was state wide...but it's just in one city!!
Where are the 'leaders' of the black community'? They'd rather get in front of the camera for 1 dead kid that was shot by a Hispanic guy (yep...he's not white, but the media likes to portray him to be. It makes a better story), than go a bit north to see what they can do to stop the bull$hit that's happening in Chicago. The camera's are in Sanford, FL, not in Chicago, IL.
It is very, very sad what has happened to Trayvon Martin. I have a son, and cannot imagine the hurt the family is going through. But I can't see how anyone that is not sitting in this courtroom, day after day, can say that they hope the verdict goes one way or the other. What is that based on. You only know what you've heard on TV and what has been told to you by the media. The only people that can judge this correctly based on ALL THE FACTS, is the jury.
(me thinks I've probably pissed some people off....so I offer to them, a flower :flowerforyou: )
QFT!
And lets not forget the 5 black on black murders in Indy over the last 4 days. Indy is getting up there with one or more murders daily.
How this comment could have read "Lets not forget the 5 murders in Indy over the last 4 days." Same meaning is conveyed (lots of crime in this city). What is added to the statement by point out it was black people committing these crimes, exactly? Or was nothing gained at all, and that's just how you classify things in your day to day life?0 -
I, along with many other people, have reported this post to the admins to be removed or locked! It is getting way out of hand and should never have been posted!
lol are you reading it?
go "lick" someone in one of those silly thread and let the adults discuss real topics.
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I, along with many other people, have reported this post to the admins to be removed or locked! It is getting way out of hand and should never have been posted!
Thank you for policing public discussion... Orwell would be proud.0 -
Parents, why are you letting your teenagers walk to 7-11 at 2 in the morning? That right there is the craziest part of the whole story to me.
^^ THIS!
Facts: It was just after 7pm. Not 2am.0 -
I haven't seen one racist post in this entire thread. The only reason there is a trial is because of racism though. I hope for your son's sake that he is smarter than Martin and would react like a human being and not an animal to attack someone for asking him why he was walking through a neighborhood in 90* weather with a hoodie at 2am.
Treyvon is the animal? hes not the one that instigated this entire thing. if GZ had just stayed in his car this never would have happened. if anyone is an animal its GZ.
Getting out of your car ins't a crime. Following someone walking at night as a neighborhood watch isn't a crime. Stopping someone and asking them questions isn't a crime. ATTACKING some is a crime. Selling drugs is a crime. Stealing jewelry is a crime. Do we need to continue?0 -
Size isn't the issue. Age is. Seventeen is a child. How mature were you at that age? I am the mother of an 18-year-old college student. I know her friends. They are still children.
As for self-defense/stand your ground, considering that Zimmerman was following Trayvon, couldn't the prosecution make a case that TRAYVON was standing his ground? Zimmerman is responsible by his actions for what happened. Now someone is dead. Had he at the very least remained in his vehicle, this would not have happened.
I completed basic training at 17. Comment about immature at that age is irrelevant. According to his parents they thought he was mature enough to be on the streets at 2 am.
QFT ^^^ My 18 year old who will be in college this fall as well, she still has a curfew while living in my house, and it's NOT 2am.0 -
Because you haven't been watching the trial where facts are coming out and heard the "star witness" for the prosecution. Uninformed. Surprise.
what day was this? i do have a life and havent followed every second of the trial cheering on GZ like you have. 0 -
Size isn't the issue. Age is. Seventeen is a child. How mature were you at that age? I am the mother of an 18-year-old college student. I know her friends. They are still children.
As for self-defense/stand your ground, considering that Zimmerman was following Trayvon, couldn't the prosecution make a case that TRAYVON was standing his ground? Zimmerman is responsible by his actions for what happened. Now someone is dead. Had he at the very least remained in his vehicle, this would not have happened.
I completed basic training at 17. Comment about immature at that age is irrelevant. According to his parents they thought he was mature enough to be on the streets at 2 am.
QFT ^^^ My 18 year old who will be in college this fall as well, she still has a curfew while living in my house, and it's NOT 2am.
Once again, this happened at 7pm - NOT 2am.0 -
It would be extremely helpful if you would use the quote feature, so that we know who/what you're responding to.My children have a white grandmother, so come again, think of something else0 -
the problem here is exactly that, he is being over charged therefore he should walk based on the fact that this was NOT Murder in the 2nd.
Zimmerman is NOT the sharpest tool in the shed, he made some mistakes but he was not set out to kill the boy..... hence his innocence in this charge.
edited for grammar
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How are you or anyone else so sure what Zimmerman was thinking to say that he did not set out to kill Trayvon Martin (the boy has a name). When he decided to follow him after being told not to, there was a reason. When he decided to pull his gun out against this unarmed teenager, that he followed, there was a reason. Whether he is found guilty or not, he decided to take the life of an innocent child that didn't deserve it. He took this child away from his parents that didn't deserve it. And maybe for those of you out there who think he just made a mistake, if you ever lose a child to a violent crime unnecessarily, will you be so understanding to say that it was just a mistake.
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his gun wasn't pulled until after he was being beaten. and how did he know Martin was unarmed?0 -
Third, this was a 6', 17 year old young man. Martin was hardly a 'child'. He was the one who came at Zimmerman first. He was beating the crap out of Zimmerman, the police photos and medical documents prove that.
Fourth, sorry but it was self-defense.
Size isn't the issue. Age is. Seventeen is a child. How mature were you at that age? I am the mother of an 18-year-old college student. I know her friends. They are still children.
As for self-defense/stand your ground, considering that Zimmerman was following Trayvon, couldn't the prosecution make a case that TRAYVON was standing his ground? Zimmerman is responsible by his actions for what happened. Now someone is dead. Had he at the very least remained in his vehicle, this would not have happened.
No because you can't stand your ground against someone walking behind you. Someone walking isn't a threat to your life. Beating your head into the ground is. You should really read up on laws.
Tell that to the person being followed for no reason at all. Have you ever been followed on a dark night to the point you were afraid for your life or well-being? Have you ever felt the need to defend yourself from that threat? In defending yourself, if at some point you end up on top, beating your pursuers head into the ground, do you deserve to be killed? What would you expect to happen to the person who followed you (causing the entire confrontation) and killed you?
There was an incident here a few years ago where a man was walking home from work after midnight. He was followed for several blocks by another man. Eventually, the second man (who was armed) got close enough to the man walking home and attempted to rob him. A struggled ensued and the would-be-robber was eventually over-powered by the would-be-victim. The victim put the robber in a choke hold and held him there until police arrived. The robber was pronounced dead at the scene. The victim wasn't charged as it was deemed self-defense. If the situation were slightly different and the victim (even after having the upper hand at one point) ended up stabbed, bleeding out and dead wouldn't you expect the robber to be charged to the fullest extent of the law? Does the fact that he was getting beat up suddenly make him the victim?? Does the fact the Zimmerman was getting beat up at one point make him any less of a threat to the person he was following?
This whole tragedy could have been avoided if he had stayed in his car as instructed.
Amen girl! He could've turn the other cheek!
And so could Martin, but he chose to ATTACK someone, not follow them but ATTACK them. But it's not his fault.
Nope, Trayvon can now rest in peace and leave his killer to deal with this mess!
There in lies the question: who was the instigator?
I need very specific details (besides a 911 operator said do not follow/the obvious ending)0 -
I'm just fascinated by how many people are ignoring the fact that it was Martin who attacked Zimmerman while he was getting BACK in his car and the growing amount of evidence and testimonies from the police and reports that support Zimmerman's story. :noway:
Facts are facts.
This! I have been watching/listening to this case since it started. Facts are facts and people need to KNOW the facts before they go overboard with there opinions. It can only make you look ignorant when you start spouting off things that are not true! Like GZ being told to "stand down" by an officer. Never happened. Was talking to a civilian and was told, 'You don't have to do that"0 -
lady, maybe you feel this way because you feel like you cant defend yourself in a fight....but for guys...losing a fight doesnt mean you kill someone.
It wasn't a bro fight over some girl. TM was slamming GZ's head against a sidewalk.
keep justifying the murder of a young man. im just glad this case will lead to tighter gun laws. get them out of the hands of wanna be cops like GZ.0 -
I'm just fascinated by how many people are ignoring the fact that it was Martin who attacked Zimmerman while he was getting BACK in his car and the growing amount of evidence and testimonies from the police and reports that support Zimmerman's story. :noway:
Facts are facts.
if you have been followed and that person is going back to their car...they could being going for a gun in their glove compartment...maybe treyvon didnt want to give him that chance.
GZ should have never got out of his car. if he wants to play wanna be cop..he should have called it in and just sat there.
Key word in your post that made you lose any credibility, "maybe". Facts are facts.0
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