Zimmerman vs. Martin

rml_16

As for self-defense/stand your ground, considering that Zimmerman was following Trayvon, couldn't the prosecution make a case that TRAYVON was standing his ground?

No, you can't make that case. Following somebody is not a crime and is not a justification for Martin assaulting Zimmerman with deadly intent.

Secondly, Zimmerman had stopped following Martin and was returning to his car when Martin confronted him and began an unprovoked assault.

Martin decided to beat the cracker and recieved his justice that night.

Martin was returning to his car because he lost sight of Martin, who was hiding, isn't that the story? Trayvon didn't know that Zimmerman wasn't intending to hurt him and he didn't know if Zimmerman was going to go looking for him.


But, as I said, Murder 2 is too harsh a charge. I still don't think it's clear-cut self-defense.

meredith1123

From my understanding, a young man was walking through a gated community, talking on the phone, while he made his way back to his place after buying snacks at a convenience store.

And some dude, under the guise of being part of a neighborhood watch, accosted him. AFTER the police told him not to.

Now, if some son of a b approached me, and I told him to back off, and he didn't and we got into a scuffle where I ended up getting shot?

Who is guilty? What, if someone approaches me in a confrontational way, I'm not supposed to defend myself?

I don't care if Trayvon is percieved as a child or a thug. He was minding his own business and Zimmerman instigated. Had Zimmerman done what the police TOLD him to do, Trayvon would have kept on walking and none of this would have happened.

This is my take on it. And it doesn't matter to me that Trayvon got in trouble at school or smoked pot. He is 17. Lots of kids behave this way and grow up to be 100% awesome contributing members of society.

Trayvon didn't get the chance to do that because a grown assed man approached him and started a fight. Unreal.

You really know nothing about this case...

i agree.
Zimmerman was not ordered to go back to his car by ANY officer. The 911 operator suggested he return to his car and he did...and martin chased him down...

oh this is fun, i need popcorn. I'm hungry.

rassha01

Being stupid is not a crime and from what Ive seen and read Zimmerman, should never have been charged. There is not enough evidence to even support a manslaughter charge.

His trial is all about politics and trying to appease the black community, and that really scares me.

Ditto!

UsedToBeHusky

Zimmerman pursued when he shouldn't have and someone is now dead. This is all that really matters here.

It doesn't matter if Zimmerman had legal right to carry. It doesn't matter if Martin had drugs in his system. It doesn't matter if Zimmerman was defending himself.

This event would not have occurred if Zimmerman had not pursued.

Does that mean he is guilty of murder? Maybe not.

Is this young man now dead because Zimmerman made a poor choice? Yes.

moosegt35

From what I read, the gun shot wound was in his front, but he was found on his stomach, implying that he was shot while ON TOP of Zimmerman. So to me, that would seem like self-defense.

Ah, but that would never have been necessary at all had Zimmerman not been following Martin, would it? Why did he get out of the car?

Say you're a 17-year-old kid (and he WAS a kid!) minding your own business and some 30-something guy is following you around. What do you do? You're not at an age to be rational and call the police. And even if you do, how long before the police get there? He didn't know who Zimmerman was or why the guy was following him. Zimmerman acted stupidly. I don't believe he set out to kill anyone, which is why I think he's been overcharged. But he is responsible for what happened. His actions led directly to Martin's death.

Typical American these days, place the blame on someone else. Martin beating his head into the ground DIRECTLY resulted in his death. Had he said, "dude, leave me alone I am just walking home" he would be alive today and probably suspended from school for dealing drugs and burglary which he was caught doing and it was covered up by the local PD in an effort to lower the crime stats in the area.

salleymo

Is it because the news shows Martin as a 10 year old kid in all his pics? Martin was a thug, drug dealer, "gangster", etc..

What makes you say that? If he were a true thug, he would have been the one carrying a gun that night, how was he a drug dealer? because he smoked? You shouldn't make remarks about a person you know nothing about. Zimmerman shouldn't have followed him, how did Trayvon know what they guy was doing? If someone is following me and I don't know them or their intent, you better believe I'm going to fight them off.

moosegt35

I think he is guilty but not for the crime he is being charged for. I think they would have had a better shot of conviction charging him with manslaughter rather than murder. His story is lining up, but he should have stopped following Martin as soon as the dispatcher told him to.

Why? That dispatcher has about as much legal authority as my pet rock. Their job is to DISPATCH police, fire, EMS, etc, not give legal instructions.

cassiepv

From my understanding, a young man was walking through a gated community, talking on the phone, while he made his way back to his place after buying snacks at a convenience store.

And some dude, under the guise of being part of a neighborhood watch, accosted him. AFTER the police told him not to.

Now, if some son of a b approached me, and I told him to back off, and he didn't and we got into a scuffle where I ended up getting shot?

Who is guilty? What, if someone approaches me in a confrontational way, I'm not supposed to defend myself?

I don't care if Trayvon is percieved as a child or a thug. He was minding his own business and Zimmerman instigated. Had Zimmerman done what the police TOLD him to do, Trayvon would have kept on walking and none of this would have happened.

This is my take on it. And it doesn't matter to me that Trayvon got in trouble at school or smoked pot. He is 17. Lots of kids behave this way and grow up to be 100% awesome contributing members of society.

Trayvon didn't get the chance to do that because a grown assed man approached him and started a fight. Unreal.

^^^ this !

seepersaud

We should have set an over-under on the amount of posts that would be allowed before the topic would be locked down.

rml_16

I knew a couple of 17 year olds who's parents let them enlist in the Army. Trust me... they weren't children. You can use the legal 18 year old age definition all you want, but Martin was in no way 'a child'.

I'm not using the legal definition. I'm using my memory of being that age and the CHILDREN Icurrently know who are that age.

I know and knew 17- and 18- and even 19-year-olds who enlisted in every branch of service who really were still children. Yes, they went out and did adult things, but they had a lot of growing up to do.

My old HS boyfriend joined the Marines at 19. We are in touch now as adults and I can tell you the person he was when he joined the Marines and went off gung-ho to fight a war is not the same person he is now. He was very immature even then. He was a kid.

I had a baby when I was 17. I had to grow up pretty quickly, but I really was still a kid in a lot of ways.

And if doing a few drugs makes someone a thug, I'd say a good 80% of the population are thugs.

My0WNinspiration

I think it was self-defense.

scottb81

As for self-defense/stand your ground, considering that Zimmerman was following Trayvon, couldn't the prosecution make a case that TRAYVON was standing his ground?

No, you can't make that case. Following somebody is not a crime and is not a justification for Martin assaulting Zimmerman with deadly intent.

Secondly, Zimmerman had stopped following Martin and was returning to his car when Martin confronted him and began an unprovoked assault.

Martin decided to beat the cracker and recieved his justice that night.

Martin was returning to his car because he lost sight of Martin, who was hiding, isn't that the story? Trayvon didn't know that Zimmerman wasn't intending to hurt him and he didn't know if Zimmerman was going to go looking for him.


But, as I said, Murder 2 is too harsh a charge. I still don't think it's clear-cut self-defense.

Well, we don't know what Martin was thinking since he isn't around to tell us. What we do know is that Martin initiated an assault on an armed man with a predictable result.

Since Martin started the fight and was much larger than Zimmerman and was pounding his head into concrete, Zimmerman had reason to believe his life was in danger and used justifiable self defense with a deadly weapon.

The police knew this from the beginning and never wanted to charge him with anything. The only reason this ever became an issue at all was to placate the race baiters.

jadashute08

Even if he was a thug, drug dealer etc... Zimmerman had no right to play COP!!! Get a Life!!!!

Actually he did. He was the neighborhood watch. You have to get "hired" for that...

And get a life? :laugh: Stay classy.
/quote]

Always classy... Thanks!

wswilliams67

Obviously you really cared because your list says it all. Self-defense for whom, Martin had every right to be walking down the street, like every body else. When it is a crime in this country to walk in any neighborhood. If he was breaking into someone's house, I would have no problem with what happened, but he was walking and Zimmerman was told to stand down.

No. I care d*ck about his case. What I care about is the disgusting media bias and the obvious bias of the presiding Judge. The legal system in Florida states "You are innocent. The state must prove your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt." The State over-charged and cannot meet the burden of 2nd Degree Murder. They MIGHT have gotten a Manslaughter conviction, but media, social, political pressure blew this case for them. Zimmerman will walk. If he doesn't then there is some deep corruption going on.

1) Martin didn't have the right to brutally assault another person for simply following him. Martin was bashing Zimmerman's head against a sidewalk. "Feared for my life" is all it takes. Sorry, self-defense. Police testimony/evidence supports this.

2) It's not a crime to walk in a neighborhood. Just like it's not a crime to patrol your neighborhood when it has been burglarized several times. Martin should have just kept on walking, but no he had to be all billy badass and prove something (to someone).

3) Zimmerman was never told by the police to 'stand down'. I'd like to know where people get this from. The 911 Operator (who has ZERO authority to order anyone do to anything) simply said "We need you to not do that."

onetwopotato

What makes you say that? If he were a true thug, he would have been the one carrying a gun that night, how was he a drug dealer? because he smoked? You shouldn't make remarks about a person you know nothing about. Zimmerman shouldn't have followed him, how did Trayvon know what they guy was doing? If someone is following me and I don't know them or their intent, you better believe I'm going to fight them off.

You obviously know nothing about the case other than a young black kid got shot and died. FOLLOW the case, then come back with your nonsense.

onetwopotato

Always classy... Thanks!

It shows. Keep it up!

Achrya

Goodness gracious my ignore user function loves posts like this.

moosegt35

Well lets ymtalk about consequences for our actions. Trayvon may have been a saint. But he was a cgild who deserved a chance to do better. Todays kids are much different than kids of other generations. George zimmerman a grown man. George was told to stop following. He was armed in a car. He should be und guilty because he completely pursues and killed someone. Imagine walking and someone following you. I would fight. Maybe he did injure georgr. All very natural reactions. And then what did george do. If hes let off rhey can still try him federally. George shouldnt have been armesmd should have stayed in his car and is a luar and a cheat. You dont deserve to die for being a bad kid. Trayvon was just a typical kid. Kids make stuoid decisions sometimes. We have to let our kids know unexoected things happen and we need to tey and avoid dangerous or risky behavior. As parents lets be a little more protective of our kids. This is a situatuon that could have been avoided. George should pay for his actions

Why should he have not been armed? He had a legal permit to be armed. Typical kids do not get caught with stolen jewelry, burglary tools and deal drugs. Sorry, but that isn't typical at all.

rml_16

From what I read, the gun shot wound was in his front, but he was found on his stomach, implying that he was shot while ON TOP of Zimmerman. So to me, that would seem like self-defense.

Ah, but that would never have been necessary at all had Zimmerman not been following Martin, would it? Why did he get out of the car?

Say you're a 17-year-old kid (and he WAS a kid!) minding your own business and some 30-something guy is following you around. What do you do? You're not at an age to be rational and call the police. And even if you do, how long before the police get there? He didn't know who Zimmerman was or why the guy was following him. Zimmerman acted stupidly. I don't believe he set out to kill anyone, which is why I think he's been overcharged. But he is responsible for what happened. His actions led directly to Martin's death.

Typical American these days, place the blame on someone else. Martin beating his head into the ground DIRECTLY resulted in his death. Had he said, "dude, leave me alone I am just walking home" he would be alive today and probably suspended from school for dealing drugs and burglary which he was caught doing and it was covered up by the local PD in an effort to lower the crime stats in the area.

Yes, shame on me for blaming the guy following the kid, not identifying himself and carrying a gun for the kid being shot to death. The kid who was simply walking home from the store and had no idea why some grown man was following him -- in his car.

Silly me.

BigDougie1211

Actually he did. He was the neighborhood watch. You have to get "hired" for that...

Are neighburhood watch schemes not voluntary programmes?

It is voluntary work. I may have used "hired" incorrectly.

hanks for that - just trying to keep up. Like I said, I'm in an entirely different country, so things could obviously work differently here.

moosegt35

Well lets ymtalk about consequences for our actions. Trayvon may have been a saint. But he was a cgild who deserved a chance to do better. Todays kids are much different than kids of other generations. George zimmerman a grown man. George was told to stop following. He was armed in a car. He should be und guilty because he completely pursues and killed someone. Imagine walking and someone following you. I would fight. Maybe he did injure georgr. All very natural reactions. And then what did george do. If hes let off rhey can still try him federally. George shouldnt have been armesmd should have stayed in his car and is a luar and a cheat. You dont deserve to die for being a bad kid. Trayvon was just a typical kid. Kids make stuoid decisions sometimes. We have to let our kids know unexoected things happen and we need to tey and avoid dangerous or risky behavior. As parents lets be a little more protective of our kids. This is a situatuon that could have been avoided. George should pay for his actions

Why should he have not been armed? He had a legal permit to be armed. Typical kids do not get caught with stolen jewelry, burglary tools and deal drugs. Not to mention attack a stranger and beat his head into the ground. Sorry, but that isn't typical at all.

wswilliams67

I knew a couple of 17 year olds who's parents let them enlist in the Army. Trust me... they weren't children. You can use the legal 18 year old age definition all you want, but Martin was in no way 'a child'.

I'm not using the legal definition. I'm using my memory of being that age and the CHILDREN Icurrently know who are that age.

I know and knew 17- and 18- and even 19-year-olds who enlisted in every branch of service who really were still children. Yes, they went out and did adult things, but they had a lot of growing up to do.

My old HS boyfriend joined the Marines at 19. We are in touch now as adults and I can tell you the person he was when he joined the Marines and went off gung-ho to fight a war is not the same person he is now. He was very immature even then. He was a kid.

I had a baby when I was 17. I had to grow up pretty quickly, but I really was still a kid in a lot of ways.

And if doing a few drugs makes someone a thug, I'd say a good 80% of the population are thugs.

But you are applying YOUR memories of what 'childhood' is. Being immature does not necessarily determine being 'a child'.

onetwopotato

The amount of people not knowing how to use the "quote" feature is driving me insane.

jenifr818

We should have set an over-under on the amount of posts that would be allowed before the topic would be locked down.

It's at about 105 now, I predict final amount of posts before the lock is 156, plus or minus 5

moosegt35

Both of these miscreants were out looking for trouble. Now one is dead and the other is on trial. I could care less what the outcome is. My only concern is that I am travelling to Orlando on Sunday, for two weeks, and I hope it doesn't turn into a riot if he is found innocent.

Well hope in one hand, and...you know the rest. Half of Florida may burn to the ground when he walks.

Doodlewhopper

Honestly, after Casey Anthony walked... I have lost all faith in the Florida justice system.

When OJ walked I lost all faith in the justice system.

I was just waiting for "OJ" to come out. OJ is not on trial here, we are dealing with the present.

But it's ok to cite Casey Anthony? Your post tells a lot about who you are.

StarChanger

I'm sure several people have echoed my thoughts so I'll just say:

I hope Zimmerman walks.

wswilliams67

Third, this was a 6', 17 year old young man. Martin was hardly a 'child'. He was the one who came at Zimmerman first. He was beating the crap out of Zimmerman, the police photos and medical documents prove that.

Fourth, sorry but it was self-defense.

Size isn't the issue. Age is. Seventeen is a child. How mature were you at that age? I am the mother of an 18-year-old college student. I know her friends. They are still children.

As for self-defense/stand your ground, considering that Zimmerman was following Trayvon, couldn't the prosecution make a case that TRAYVON was standing his ground? Zimmerman is responsible by his actions for what happened. Now someone is dead. Had he at the very least remained in his vehicle, this would not have happened.

This was my point exactly. Wasn't Zimmerman off duty? Didn't Trayvon try to run to get away from Zimmerman? So if someone were to follow me at night, and I'm running to get away from them, and they catch up to me, throw some intimidating words around, at what point am I allowed to knock him out, not to kill him but just long enough to be able to get away? And just saying that I'm hardcore and can get him on the ground, and he shoots me while I'm trying to incapacitate him...he gets to walk and be told "oh you just made poor choices that night"?

Martin could have kept walking...

soldier4242

Good Morning ,

I am just wondering what are your thoughts on the trial thus far? I totally hope that Zimmerman is found guilty, but In my opinion I don't believe the prosecutor has proven Zimmerman's guilt. Every night I watch channels like CNN & HLN with Dr. Drew and other experts who have their opinions on the case.

Just for talk, what do you think about the whole case and the trial? What do you think the verdict will be? What do you think about the witnesses who have testified? Anything else you'd like to throw in there, be my guest!

P.S.-Let's be peaceful :flowerforyou: Ready, set, go!!!

You don't think that there is enough evidence to prove he is guilty but you want him found guilty anyways? Do you just want a conviction for the sake of conviction? Everyone is innocent until proven guilty so if he is not proven guilty I want him found not guilty.

onedayatatime12

I think it's Zimmerman.
And what frustrates me is that EVERY night the argument shifts over to place the blame on Martin, Zimmerman, Martin, Zimmerman, Martin, etc.... SO frustrating!
I saw a few nights ago, that Martin was a regular THC user- and the forensics expert said that the body gets used to the effect of it, so it should not have caused any significant mental/physical change in Martin, which I thought was interesting. After googling THC and its effects, I read that it has a rather sedative effect on the human body, and that in fact, even if he DID consume high amounts of it, it would not make him aggressive, in any way.
This case is pretty interesting, but I am just frustrated by how long it's taking to solve! I think that one piece of huge evidence (though not exactly tangible) that should go against Zimmerman is that he gained weight so rapidly after the case opened- that he has some sort of guilty feelings about this whole ordeal in which he was involved. Also, his testimonies have changed so much, which is normal. But I still think he's guilty.
Also, Zimmerman was NOT in law enforcement, if I understand correctly. He was following them around, and had NO authority whatsoever to apprehend Martin and even after being told so by the 911 dispatcher, he did so. That should weigh heavily against him, in my opinion.
Nice to hear some news on these threads actually! Something different