Zimmerman vs. Martin
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And to answer the original question...
I believe that it was a very unfortunate series of events, ending in the death of a 17 year old. I believe that Zimmerman is being over-charged with "murder 2," as many others have stated. I think that if the jury is instructed to include lesser charges, he may likely be found guilty of a lesser offense. But, with a jury of 12 women, there's really no telling, even if the defense hasn't proven the case beyond a shadow of a doubt. We've certainly had bad verdicts in the past...0 -
Its amazing that you were so close to Martin that you know exactly that he was a thug, drug dealer and "gangster". Were you one of his customers? If George Zimmerman have nothing to hide, let him take the stand and tell all the world what actually took place. Why do we need to have his evidence animated, ask yourself that question, if that was one of your relatives, would you be happy to have an animated account of what actually took place, whilst the killer sits a couple of feet away. The big elephant in the room is that if Zimmerman had followed instructions, Martin would have been alive today. The whole case is flawed from the start, Zimmerman knows what he did, and even if he walks, he have to live with his conscience. I hope he realize that life is a circle, something we as human beings fail to acknowledge.
They have video of him damaging property, and he both was caught with drugs and paraphernalia before and had THC metabolites in his blood at his autopsy. He beat the tar out of an armed neighborhood watch volunteer.
That's how we know he was a thug.
And Zimmerman had all this evidence and was instructed to bring justice by taking Trayvon down? What does this have to do with ANYTHING that happened that night? Or does it just soothe people's conscience that an unarmed CHILD was murdered (yes, he was a child. Most 17 year olds haven't graduated high school, can't buy cigarettes or alcohol, and in many states need a parent's consent to get a freakin' tattoo. It's pretty convenient to all of a sudden deem him an adult now, though, so I get it.).
Anyway...I knew I shouldn't have read this thread, Nika, I blame you!!!!! :grumble:0 -
Its amazing that you were so close to Martin that you know exactly that he was a thug, drug dealer and "gangster". Were you one of his customers? If George Zimmerman have nothing to hide, let him take the stand and tell all the world what actually took place. Why do we need to have his evidence animated, ask yourself that question, if that was one of your relatives, would you be happy to have an animated account of what actually took place, whilst the killer sits a couple of feet away. The big elephant in the room is that if Zimmerman had followed instructions, Martin would have been alive today. The whole case is flawed from the start, Zimmerman knows what he did, and even if he walks, he have to live with his conscience. I hope he realize that life is a circle, something we as human beings fail to acknowledge.
They have video of him damaging property, and he both was caught with drugs and paraphernalia before and had THC metabolites in his blood at his autopsy. He beat the tar out of an armed neighborhood watch volunteer.
That's how we know he was a thug.
So everything you read in the press is correct. I am sure glad that I did not attend your school. There is something disturbing about Zimmerman's injuries, at the end of the day, whether he is acquitted or found guilty, he have to live with he has done.0 -
. You can use the legal 18 year old age definition all you want,
I don't think anyone is. I think peple are actually saying that just because the LAW says you're an adult at 18 doesn't make you a mature, gown up individual.0 -
Actually he did. He was the neighborhood watch. You have to get "hired" for that...
Are neighburhood watch schemes not voluntary programmes?0 -
Did he try 2 Martin? Zimmerman did not think about what was the best way to approach Martin, if he though that something was wrong or suspicious of Martin.0
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I'm with her.I think the prosecution made a mistake charging him with Second Degree murder. If he's found not guilty it will be because he was overcharged and they couldn't prove he's guilty of that charge.
I don't think he deserves to walk, though.
Also, I give this topic another 15 minutes before lock.0 -
Its amazing that you were so close to Martin that you know exactly that he was a thug, drug dealer and "gangster". Were you one of his customers? If George Zimmerman have nothing to hide, let him take the stand and tell all the world what actually took place. Why do we need to have his evidence animated, ask yourself that question, if that was one of your relatives, would you be happy to have an animated account of what actually took place, whilst the killer sits a couple of feet away. The big elephant in the room is that if Zimmerman had followed instructions, Martin would have been alive today. The whole case is flawed from the start, Zimmerman knows what he did, and even if he walks, he have to live with his conscience. I hope he realize that life is a circle, something we as human beings fail to acknowledge.
Lol, don't blame me :blushing:
I just wanted some opinions and views and I knew exactly where to get them
They have video of him damaging property, and he both was caught with drugs and paraphernalia before and had THC metabolites in his blood at his autopsy. He beat the tar out of an armed neighborhood watch volunteer.
That's how we know he was a thug.
And Zimmerman had all this evidence and was instructed to bring justice by taking Trayvon down? What does this have to do with ANYTHING that happened that night? Or does it just soothe people's conscience that an unarmed CHILD was murdered (yes, he was a child. Most 17 year olds haven't graduated high school, can't buy cigarettes or alcohol, and in many states need a parent's consent to get a freakin' tattoo. It's pretty convenient to all of a sudden deem him an adult now, though, so I get it.).
Anyway...I knew I shouldn't have read this thread, Nika, I blame you!!!!! :grumble:0 -
Its amazing that you were so close to Martin that you know exactly that he was a thug, drug dealer and "gangster". Were you one of his customers? If George Zimmerman have nothing to hide, let him take the stand and tell all the world what actually took place. Why do we need to have his evidence animated, ask yourself that question, if that was one of your relatives, would you be happy to have an animated account of what actually took place, whilst the killer sits a couple of feet away. The big elephant in the room is that if Zimmerman had followed instructions, Martin would have been alive today. The whole case is flawed from the start, Zimmerman knows what he did, and even if he walks, he have to live with his conscience. I hope he realize that life is a circle, something we as human beings fail to acknowledge.
Lol, don't blame me :blushing:
I just wanted some opinions and views and I knew exactly where to get them
They have video of him damaging property, and he both was caught with drugs and paraphernalia before and had THC metabolites in his blood at his autopsy. He beat the tar out of an armed neighborhood watch volunteer.
That's how we know he was a thug.
And Zimmerman had all this evidence and was instructed to bring justice by taking Trayvon down? What does this have to do with ANYTHING that happened that night? Or does it just soothe people's conscience that an unarmed CHILD was murdered (yes, he was a child. Most 17 year olds haven't graduated high school, can't buy cigarettes or alcohol, and in many states need a parent's consent to get a freakin' tattoo. It's pretty convenient to all of a sudden deem him an adult now, though, so I get it.).
Anyway...I knew I shouldn't have read this thread, Nika, I blame you!!!!! :grumble:
Lol, don't blame me :blushing:
I just wanted some opinions and views and I knew exactly where to get them 0 -
It is voluntary work. I may have used "hired" incorrectly.Actually he did. He was the neighborhood watch. You have to get "hired" for that...
Are neighburhood watch schemes not voluntary programmes?0 -
Martin was returning to his car because he lost sight of Martin, who was hiding, isn't that the story? Trayvon didn't know that Zimmerman wasn't intending to hurt him and he didn't know if Zimmerman was going to go looking for him.
No, you can't make that case. Following somebody is not a crime and is not a justification for Martin assaulting Zimmerman with deadly intent.As for self-defense/stand your ground, considering that Zimmerman was following Trayvon, couldn't the prosecution make a case that TRAYVON was standing his ground?
Secondly, Zimmerman had stopped following Martin and was returning to his car when Martin confronted him and began an unprovoked assault.
Martin decided to beat the cracker and recieved his justice that night.
But, as I said, Murder 2 is too harsh a charge. I still don't think it's clear-cut self-defense.0 -
From my understanding, a young man was walking through a gated community, talking on the phone, while he made his way back to his place after buying snacks at a convenience store.
And some dude, under the guise of being part of a neighborhood watch, accosted him. AFTER the police told him not to.
Now, if some son of a b approached me, and I told him to back off, and he didn't and we got into a scuffle where I ended up getting shot?
Who is guilty? What, if someone approaches me in a confrontational way, I'm not supposed to defend myself?
I don't care if Trayvon is percieved as a child or a thug. He was minding his own business and Zimmerman instigated. Had Zimmerman done what the police TOLD him to do, Trayvon would have kept on walking and none of this would have happened.
This is my take on it. And it doesn't matter to me that Trayvon got in trouble at school or smoked pot. He is 17. Lots of kids behave this way and grow up to be 100% awesome contributing members of society.
Trayvon didn't get the chance to do that because a grown assed man approached him and started a fight. Unreal.
You really know nothing about this case...
i agree.
Zimmerman was not ordered to go back to his car by ANY officer. The 911 operator suggested he return to his car and he did...and martin chased him down...
oh this is fun, i need popcorn. I'm hungry.0 -
Being stupid is not a crime and from what Ive seen and read Zimmerman, should never have been charged. There is not enough evidence to even support a manslaughter charge.
His trial is all about politics and trying to appease the black community, and that really scares me.
Ditto!0 -
Zimmerman pursued when he shouldn't have and someone is now dead. This is all that really matters here.
It doesn't matter if Zimmerman had legal right to carry. It doesn't matter if Martin had drugs in his system. It doesn't matter if Zimmerman was defending himself.
This event would not have occurred if Zimmerman had not pursued.
Does that mean he is guilty of murder? Maybe not.
Is this young man now dead because Zimmerman made a poor choice? Yes.0 -
From what I read, the gun shot wound was in his front, but he was found on his stomach, implying that he was shot while ON TOP of Zimmerman. So to me, that would seem like self-defense.
Ah, but that would never have been necessary at all had Zimmerman not been following Martin, would it? Why did he get out of the car?
Say you're a 17-year-old kid (and he WAS a kid!) minding your own business and some 30-something guy is following you around. What do you do? You're not at an age to be rational and call the police. And even if you do, how long before the police get there? He didn't know who Zimmerman was or why the guy was following him. Zimmerman acted stupidly. I don't believe he set out to kill anyone, which is why I think he's been overcharged. But he is responsible for what happened. His actions led directly to Martin's death.
Typical American these days, place the blame on someone else. Martin beating his head into the ground DIRECTLY resulted in his death. Had he said, "dude, leave me alone I am just walking home" he would be alive today and probably suspended from school for dealing drugs and burglary which he was caught doing and it was covered up by the local PD in an effort to lower the crime stats in the area.0 -
Is it because the news shows Martin as a 10 year old kid in all his pics? Martin was a thug, drug dealer, "gangster", etc..
What makes you say that? If he were a true thug, he would have been the one carrying a gun that night, how was he a drug dealer? because he smoked? You shouldn't make remarks about a person you know nothing about. Zimmerman shouldn't have followed him, how did Trayvon know what they guy was doing? If someone is following me and I don't know them or their intent, you better believe I'm going to fight them off.0 -
I think he is guilty but not for the crime he is being charged for. I think they would have had a better shot of conviction charging him with manslaughter rather than murder. His story is lining up, but he should have stopped following Martin as soon as the dispatcher told him to.
Why? That dispatcher has about as much legal authority as my pet rock. Their job is to DISPATCH police, fire, EMS, etc, not give legal instructions.0 -
From my understanding, a young man was walking through a gated community, talking on the phone, while he made his way back to his place after buying snacks at a convenience store.
And some dude, under the guise of being part of a neighborhood watch, accosted him. AFTER the police told him not to.
Now, if some son of a b approached me, and I told him to back off, and he didn't and we got into a scuffle where I ended up getting shot?
Who is guilty? What, if someone approaches me in a confrontational way, I'm not supposed to defend myself?
I don't care if Trayvon is percieved as a child or a thug. He was minding his own business and Zimmerman instigated. Had Zimmerman done what the police TOLD him to do, Trayvon would have kept on walking and none of this would have happened.
This is my take on it. And it doesn't matter to me that Trayvon got in trouble at school or smoked pot. He is 17. Lots of kids behave this way and grow up to be 100% awesome contributing members of society.
Trayvon didn't get the chance to do that because a grown assed man approached him and started a fight. Unreal.
^^^ this !0 -
We should have set an over-under on the amount of posts that would be allowed before the topic would be locked down.0
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I knew a couple of 17 year olds who's parents let them enlist in the Army. Trust me... they weren't children. You can use the legal 18 year old age definition all you want, but Martin was in no way 'a child'.
I'm not using the legal definition. I'm using my memory of being that age and the CHILDREN Icurrently know who are that age.
I know and knew 17- and 18- and even 19-year-olds who enlisted in every branch of service who really were still children. Yes, they went out and did adult things, but they had a lot of growing up to do.
My old HS boyfriend joined the Marines at 19. We are in touch now as adults and I can tell you the person he was when he joined the Marines and went off gung-ho to fight a war is not the same person he is now. He was very immature even then. He was a kid.
I had a baby when I was 17. I had to grow up pretty quickly, but I really was still a kid in a lot of ways.
And if doing a few drugs makes someone a thug, I'd say a good 80% of the population are thugs.0
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